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Victory for electoral fraud

  • 23-05-2015 11:34am
    #1
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭


    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.


«1345678

Comments

  • #2
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    How's those lemons?


  • #3
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    I only wish more had returned


  • #4
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.
    they are citizens of this country and entitled to vote just like in any other democracy


  • #5
    Mozzeltoff
    Registered Users Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭Mozzeltoff


    Alls fair in love and equality.


  • #6
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Well as the majority is likely to be 500,000 plus it's not a factor in the result.


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  • #7
    gman127
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭gman127


    People came home to vote.

    Could still vote how they wanted, it wasn't only the Yes voters being allowed through the airport


  • #8
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    aaakev wrote: »
    they are citizens of this country and entitled to vote just like in any other democracy

    They are not entitled to break the law. It seems that in this case anything can be justified by the yes side.


  • #9
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Not completely sure but i believe theres a time of like 18 months (could be more i'm not sure) in which an emigrant is still entitled to vote so no rules being broken.


  • #10
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    Fair bit of salt in the OP there.


  • #11
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    aaakev wrote: »
    they are citizens of this country and entitled to vote just like in any other democracy
    That is in fact incorrect. If they are out of the country more than 18 months they are breaking the law if they vote.

    If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.


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  • #12
    Rabbo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 637 ✭✭✭Rabbo


    I'm pretty sure the Yes vote carried because the majority of Irish people believe in equality and didn't believe the sky would fall in if we allowed gay people to marry. Not because a few thousand Irish people travelled home to vote


  • #13
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    Fair play to them for using their vote, whatever way they vote. I know a lot of people, my own brother included, that was born here, schooled here, employed here, pay thousands of euro in tax here every year, and they have no say in the running of the country because they don't actually live here. I, for one, think that is wrong.


  • #14
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Rabbo wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the Yes vote carried because the majority of Irish people believe in equality and didn't believe the sky would fall in if we allowed gay people to marry. Not because a few thousand Irish people travelled home to vote
    Am I saying that?? All I am saying is that the system is insecure and broken.


  • #15
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,642 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    stefanovich wrote: »
    That is in fact incorrect. If they are out of the country more than 18 months they are breaking the law if they vote.

    If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.

    How do you know they all voted yes? Perhaps Iona paid them all to come home and vote no?


  • #16
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    stefanovich wrote: »
    If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.

    Any evidence that people who aren't Irish were voting? That's a pretty serious allegation.


  • #17
    _Tombstone_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Is coming home to vote a Facebook thing?


  • #18
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Fair play to them for using their vote, whatever way they vote. I know a lot of people. people, my own brother included, that was born here, schooled here, employed here, pay thousands of euro in tax here every year, and they have no say in the running of the country because they don't actually live here. I, for one, think that is wrong.
    Oh sorry, I didn't realise you disagreed with the law. I apologise. How wrong could I be for wishing people followed the rules!


  • #19
    aaakev
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    They are not entitled to break the law. It seems that in this case anything can be justified by the yes side.

    Explain exactly how they are breaking the law?

    Sore looser much?


  • #20
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Rabbo wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure the Yes vote carried because the majority of Irish people believe in equality and didn't believe the sky would fall in if we allowed gay people to marry. Not because a few thousand Irish people travelled home to vote

    I knew when i saw the story about returning emigrants that the No side would latch onto it if they lost.


  • #21
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    stefanovich would you have given a **** if the NO vote had won by any chance?


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  • #22
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Oh sorry, I didn't realise you disagreed with the law. I apologise. How wrong could I be for wishing people followed the rules!

    What rule did they break, they are on the register and are eligible to vote. If you know otherwise you should contact the Gardai.


  • #23
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    Any evidence that people who aren't Irish were voting? That's a pretty serious allegation.
    Lots of third hand information.


  • #24
    wil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭wil


    The Gathering 2013 Home for the craic
    The Gathering 2015 Home to vote
    What'll they call the next episode?


  • #25
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Lots of third hand information.

    Conjecture won't stand in court.


  • #26
    retro:electro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Didn't take long for the excuses to start coming did it..
    Would you still be as outraged OP if it was a no majority?


  • #27
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    What rule did they break, they are on the register and are eligible to vote. If you know otherwise you should contact the Gardai.
    If you are out of the country more than 18 months then you are not resident. If you are not resident then you are not eligible to vote even if you didn't bother to take yourself off the register.


  • #28
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    Lots of claims, little proof.


  • #29
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Conjecture won't stand in court.

    Even Lionel Hutz wouldn't touch that.


  • #30
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    Lots of claims, little proof.
    Hmm, 66,000 people travel back to vote. I wonder what percentage were out of the country more than 18 months?? Australia is a long way away.


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  • #31
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    If you are out of the country more than 18 months then you are not resident. If you are not resident then you are not eligible to vote even if you didn't bother to take yourself off the register.

    How do you know that those people were out more than 18 months? And more importantly how do you know that their votes would have changed the outcome of the vote?


  • #32
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    How do you know that those people were out more than 18 months? And more importantly how do you know that their votes would have changed the outcome of the vote?
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.


  • #33
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.

    Again any proof they were gone longer than 18 months?


  • #34
    AndonHandon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    For a general election I feel angry and militant that emigrants shouldn't be allowed to vote as a government lasts such a short stint so they shouldn't be allowed decide what does not effect them. But a Constitutional amendment is long-term so I encourage those who care about Ireland to contribute.


  • #35
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Again any proof they were gone longer than 18 months?
    Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.


  • #36
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    Toys are being flung from the pram and the lemons are as bitter as ever, it is truly a glorious day.


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  • #37
    bpmurray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭bpmurray


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Lots of third hand information.

    Yeah, I suppose it's people with surnames like "Stefanovich" - they're obviously not Irish.


  • #38
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    someone sounds butt hurt. The irony.


  • #39
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.

    I'll take that as a no then.


  • #40
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.

    Any system that demands you relinquish your constitutional rights voluntarily deserved to be mocked. But that's not the issue here. Your accusing thousands of people of committing fraud with no proof. That's not on at all mucker.


  • #41
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

    A disgraceful distortion of the reality.

    66,000 new voters registered during the period of the supplement to the register being prepared.

    Those figures include citizens turning 18 and younger voters who may have already be older than 18 but have not bothered registering before now.

    Of those that travelled from abroad to vote, they included permanent Irish residents and citizens who might be spending weeks or months abroad for business, educational or leisure purposes, but whose homes are in Ireland and are absolutely entitled to cast a ballot.

    You can have no knowledge of the actual numbers of people you accuse you committing a fraud and i think you need to stop commenting in that fashion.


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  • #42
    ccdust
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭ccdust


    The 66,000 figure is the number of new voters who registered ahead of this referendum, not the number who came home to vote.


  • #43
    PlainP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 714 ✭✭✭PlainP


    Sour grapes much OP.

    I'm so proud to be Irish today.


  • #44
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ccdust wrote: »
    The 66,000 figure is the number of new voters who registered ahead of this referendum, not the number who came home to vote.


    Shush now, this isn't a thread for facts, its for bitterness and grieving.


  • #45
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    Sweet, warm tea will wash down that bitter pill OP ;)


  • #46
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    aaakev wrote: »
    Explain exactly how they are breaking the law?

    Sore looser much?

    Under section 5 of the Electoral Act 1963, it states:


    (4) For the purposes of this section—

    (a) a person shall be deemed not to have given up ordinary residence if he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up,

    (b) a written statement by a person that he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up shall, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, be conclusive evidence of that fact.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0019/sec0005.html

    Those non resident for 18 months or who are non resident and plan to continue to be so for 18 months should not have voted yesterday.


  • #47
    bee06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    If you feel so strongly about it then you should report it. I'm sure there is some mechanism for reporting electoral fraud. No point in just ranting on boards about it.


  • #48
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The numbers who actually came home just to vote is likely to be four figures at most. Logistically you just can't get tens of thousands of people into the country at short notice over a 24 hour period unless you put on a lot of extra boats and planes.


  • #49
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

    And they are off again. Nobody cares apart from a few disillusioned grumps.
    You have a choice of lemons or grapes.


  • #50
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    bee06 wrote: »
    If you feel so strongly about it then you should report it. I'm sure there is some mechanism for reporting electoral fraud. No point in just ranting on boards about it.
    It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.


  • #51
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Hmm, 66,000 people travel back to vote. I wonder what percentage were out of the country more than 18 months?? Australia is a long way away.

    It could be anything between 0 and all. You dont know. People are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty as soon as you decide. You cant even use the 66k number right.


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