Victory for electoral fraud

obriendj

MathDebater wrote: »

The result is not in question. I'm happy that the yes side won and life moves on. The issue is voter fraud and the media and politicians thinking it a great thing altogether. What happens next time if this craic goes on and the result is much closer ala the divorce referendum '95?

Forget about yes side or no side for a minute and look at the more longterm picture. The electoral register is a mess and wide open to abuse. It needs to be sorted out.

I have reported four people and it will be looked into. If they find that fraud electoral fraud has been committed then they will bring it to the AGs attention and go from there.

I understand where you are coming from and under the current format there cannot be a perfect election with 100% accuracy.

I am sure there are multiple people that got 2 polling cards and could have voted twice (not saying any did) There could also be a case where a father (or mother) voted for their son (or daughter) who has their same name.

I would also be sure that some persons who are deceased longer than 18 months received a polling cards. It is a decent system that is not 100% but to say that the people who should not have voted won the vote for the YES side is wrong. This thread is coming across bitter especially the title.

fed up sick and tired

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

You ran away last night from explaining your flimsy and barely-concealed xenophobia. Somewhere else on boards you have been implying that only people who 'contribute' should be allowed to vote.

Now this op with more rash allegations. Give it a rest.

Everything out of your mouth is half-baked ill-reasoned stuff. Seriously.

MathDebater

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Exactly. A polling card is needed, one of which you will not have if you cannot legally vote.

How can the state tell if you're resident or not if you don't inform them? They don't take you off the register once you enter departures in Dublin airport

Egginacup

stefanovich wrote: »

Hmm, 66,000 people travel back to vote. I wonder what percentage were out of the country more than 18 months?? Australia is a long way away.

Do you know what the closest city to Dublin is? Liverpool. a lot closer than Galway or Cork from which many had to travel to Dublin in order to cast their ballot.
I seriously doubt too many chippies from Ballyhaunis or barmaids and nannies from Listowel stumped up the 1500 quid to fly back from Sydney to vote on gay rights. But if they did I commend their strength of character and sense of civic duty

Egginacup

stefanovich wrote: »

Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.

Facts are what matter here, not suspicions.

The Masculinist

I'd imagine the long weekend in the UK also had something to do with the increased numbers returning home.

Jinonatron

I am a gay, black, muslim woman with Irish citizenship who returned to vote after a 10 year absence. I voted yes twice in two constituencies and also voted for Fianna Fail in the bye election.

I felt I was entitled to it because I was stealing the work of Irish and sponging on the dole for many years during my time there.

Egginacup

MathDebater wrote: »

Nothing antiquated about the electoral act. With the number of Irish born emigrants and Irish citizens by descent around the world, if we allowed them to vote they could potentially have more of a say in the running of the Irish state than the Irish citizens actually living here.

By that logic then you are conceding that we also run the much more serious risk of millions of people with Irish passports just moving to the country as is their right and potentially completely overwhelming and crippling the place. What are you suggesting be done to ward off that grave threat?

Eugene Norman

I voted yes but there's a valid point here about the voting system. People abroad for longer than 18 months shouldn't have voted.

It didn't effect the result but it may do so in some other time.

Timberrrrrrrr

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

As i said in your other thread

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see the no side are getting their excuses in early.

Seems i am psychic

Egginacup

emigrate2012 wrote: »

Crawl back under your rock ffs,any proof of these shenanigans??? 14 odd hours after the ballot and you're slinging some serious sh!t there pal....

If I were to marry a bloke tommorow, what DIRECT effect would it have on YOU??
Nothing whatsoever.....
The people have spoken, equality for all at last.

Look outside,it's a beautiful day go out and enjoy it and stop stirring sh!the.

I for one am gonna go into the city tonight, cos there's gonna be one hell of a hooley!!!!

I hear ya! As a hetero male with loads of gay friends and acquaintances I can't wait for the party. I'm a bit of a pretty boy so usually get fawned over by gays. Suits me fine. Tonight I shag a fag-hag in celebration.

ballsymchugh

i think it's great that the vote will pass by way more than the numbers being mentioned about people returning from out foreign. it's shown that the country can grow up itself.

EazyD

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

Actually what it's highlighted is that the majority are forward thinking and want a more equal society.

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

I hear ya! As a hetero male with loads of gay friends and acquaintances I can't wait for the party. I'm a bit of a pretty boy so usually get fawned over by gays. Suits me fine. Tonight I shag a fag-hag in celebration.

Really. I guessed you were 55 if a day given your pro Soviet stance (reheated). How does the love of liberalism in the west and the love of Putin in the east mesh together in that brain?

Egginacup

pmasterson95 wrote: »

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics


but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest .

I voted in favour of the presidential age limit reduction and was beaten fair and square. You don't see me crying about electoral fraud and returning expats who shattered my dreams of having a president who has only just started shaving (face or legs).

Sheldons Brain

They need to cross reference the electoral register.
If someone has no other existence, e.g. paying tax, receiving social welfare, attending university then they should be removed from the register until they produce some evidence of actually living here. This would mean that someone would be removed after 18 months or so and temptation would not arise.

wakka12

How is it electoral fraud? They're eligible to vote. Btw Im sure some passionate no voters made the long trip home to take part in being defeated.

blueser

What's that old saying about Ireland being a nation of begrudgers? I guess they'll always be around.

EazyD

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

They need to cross reference the electoral register.
If someone has no other existence, e.g. paying tax, receiving social welfare, attending university then they should be removed from the register until they produce some evidence of actually living here. This would mean that someone would be removed after 18 months or so and temptation would not arise.

How would this change today's result may I ask?

pablomakaveli

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Really. I guessed you were 55 if a day given your pro Soviet stance (reheated). How does the love of liberalism in the west and the love of Putin in the east mesh together in that brain?

I find it mind boggling how he can be on here celebrating the result while often banging the drum for a country that brutally represses homosexuals.

Grandpa Hassan

Firstly, it was a great result, a great day for Ireland, and a result which would have been a landslide even if no one resident overseas had returned home.

Purely on the voting issue though....it is a shambles. I know a couple of non Irish people living in Dublin that voted....and I know a ton of people who went back to Dublin from London to vote even though they have been in London for a number of years and probably will not be heading home to Ireland any time soon. So, yes, I agree that the voting law as it is currently worded is unenforceable

retro:electro

This is going to sound awful and leave me open to all sorts of abuse but I really hope those who celebrate tonight do it respectfully and with dignity. They're entitled to let loose after such a long campaign but it would only take one excessive incident to start the no crowd and in particular the Iona bunch to start mouthing.

The Backwards Man

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

They need to cross reference the electoral register.
If someone has no other existence, e.g. paying tax, receiving social welfare, attending university then they should be removed from the register until they produce some evidence of actually living here. This would mean that someone would be removed after 18 months or so and temptation would not arise.

Plenty of Irish citizens paying tax here but not resident here haven't a vote. Plenty of Irish residents pay tax elsewhere and have a vote. Your criteria are just as bad as the current ones.

Egginacup

MathDebater wrote: »

Have you read the thread or just jumped in?



Anyone who voted yesterday and who has not been resident for 18 months or who is not resident and does not plan to return within 18 months from the date that they left, should not have done so.

Yes. That is true. What is your point?
Because if 4 lads on the Finnucane show have admitted to electoral fraud and thus opened themselves to prosecution is your linchpin for arguing that the result is a victory for electoral fraud then you're on very thin ice.

ballsymchugh

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Plenty of Irish citizens paying tax here but not resident here haven't a vote. Plenty of Irish residents pay tax elsewhere and have a vote. Your criteria are just as bad as the current ones.

out of curiosity, how does that work? i was in the UK for a few years. to get a tax clearance cert, the lovely people in revenue asked me to do a tax return for the years i was away. on page 3 or 4 of the form, there's a section for people who are/were non resident. that's all i filled out and i didn't pay tax.

HIB

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

Who gives a fiddlers....?

We all know the electoral register is a big steaming pile. I'm on it 3 times myself.

The J Stands for Jay

stefanovich wrote: »

Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.

I wonder is it possible that maybe there was more than 66000 Irish people abroad, and maybe the reason that only 66000 travelled back is because they were only away for <18months?

Egginacup

Duck Soup wrote: »

1. I voted yes.

2. The referendum would have been carried by a landslide anyway, without the relative handful of alleged overseas voters.

3. Much as it pains me to say it, the OP is right. If an Irish citizen and you're non-resident in the Republic, you can't vote in referenda.

From the Citizens Information site: "Overseas voters If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters list).

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

Everyone knows that. But read the thread title. The OP is trying to call into question the validity of the referendum decision because of the possibility (not proof, just possibility) of a few illegal votes. It's puerile.

The Backwards Man

ballsymchugh wrote: »

out of curiosity, how does that work? i was in the UK for a few years. to get a tax clearance cert, the lovely people in revenue asked me to do a tax return for the years i was away. on page 3 or 4 of the form, there's a section for people who are/were non resident. that's all i filled out and i didn't pay tax.

I mean people that are working abroad for Irish firms.

Grandpa Hassan

McGaggs wrote: »

I wonder is it possible that maybe there was more than 66000 Irish people abroad, and maybe the reason that only 66000 travelled back is because they were only away for <18months?

No. A whole cohort of my college buddies who have been in London for 5 years travelled back together. And they spoke of others from their school/town doing the same. A large proportion of that 66k would have been away for long term/permanent