Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Pete_Cavan · 04-10-2021 9:23am

There is no suggestion of Luas to the airport, posting about it here is blatantly OT. These "It'll never happen" posts add nothing, shouldn't be permitted.

Murph85 · 04-10-2021 9:34am

In fairness, I suggested a while ago, a greenway out to the airport, instead of Dublin metro . An irish politicians and planners dream, dirt cheap and environmentally friendly...

Could also possibly be completed before 2034...

The sooner the green line is overwhelmed again, with the thousands of apartments planned along the route, the better. That is the only thing that will force the issue...

The single line if it were to go ahead as originally planned and upgrade to metro to sandyford, would carry what? By 2030 with the huge increase In Dublin population by then ?

100,000,0000 passengers a year ? And there they are, spending billions on roads, adding to congestion and climate change.

All of the upgrade projects for motorways on dublins doorstep should be scrapped while money allocated to rail in the region instead...

magicbastarder · 04-10-2021 9:44am

a greenway along which route?

Murph85 · 04-10-2021 9:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973360#Comment_117973360

It was sarcasm of the highest order... a green way from o'Connell street to Dublin airport instead of Dublin metro. Dirt cheap and " sustainable"... they always try to axe this project the first chance they get...

cgcsb · 04-10-2021 11:48am

Big hint today that there's assurances on metrolink and 'DART+ West'. So no commitment to thw other dart lines?

bk · 04-10-2021 12:41pm

Well Metrolink features highly in the NDP.

The pertinent part:

"Since publication of the last NDP there has been significant progress in terms of non-statutory public consultations and planning & design of the scheme.

A Preliminary Business Case has been submitted for analysis and will be submitted shortly to Government for its approval as required under the Public Spending Code. Approval of the Preliminary Business Case will permit the project to enter the statutory planning process in the first half of 2022 and the funding this NDP delivers will allow the project move off the drawing board and into construction. "

So only a very small (and unsurprising delay), but overall seems to be progressing and one of the main projects.

Kermit.de.frog · 04-10-2021 3:49pm

There is a metro with full planning ready to go. If they were serious they'd have built that but they aren't serious and have zero intention of ever building it.

We were to have a railway order application in on the revised metro months a go. Didn't happen.

And it didn't happen because it's easier to keep pretending to the public it's "progressing" through various processes.

This is code for it's never going to happen but the politicians get kudos by locals for essentially lying and spending small money pretending it will.

And there are many other projects they pretend they are "progressing" as well.

They won't happen either.

spacetweek · 04-10-2021 6:12pm

Metrolink's alignment is better than Metro North's. The decision to take in Tara St was a good one. The decision to extend to Charlemont was a very good one. The decision to interface at Glasnevin instead of Drumcondra was good, etc.

Better to have this version instead of the old one - in any case an attempt to go ahead with Metro North's planning application would almost certainly be liable to legal action as legislation has changed since then.

Peregrine · 04-10-2021 6:31pm

Also, I presume all Metro North CPOs became invalid years ago.

Pete_Cavan · 04-10-2021 7:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117975934#Comment_117975934

Plus Metrolink being driverless will mean it will be infinitely better than MN would have been.

Podge_irl · 04-10-2021 7:31pm

This is code for it's never going to happen but the politicians get kudos by locals for essentially lying and spending small money pretending it will.

Yes. The "locals" are, after all, notoriously fond of these disruptive infrastructure projects.

The delay is frustrating, though at least some delay was inevitable really. If it actually goes for planning in 1H 22 then that is positive and I can't possibly see how it would take until 2030s to get finished.

spacetweek · 05-10-2021 7:34pm

It might still be beyond 2030. The length of time it'll take to build will probably be decided by the contractor and is subject to unexpected delays. I watch Extreme Engineering on Discovery and if I've learned one thing from it it's that every day in a large complex construction project presents new challenges. Bad ones require redo's or even insurance payouts.

My personal guess is that with PP submitted in Q1 '22, and 12-18 months for a decision, and construction start within a year the best start date is Q1 '24. With 6-8 years as the range for construction, that puts it at 2030-2032.

Pity we can't have a phased opening - you could open Swords-Airport since the depot will be at Swords but that would be of limited use.

Pete_Cavan · 05-10-2021 8:39pm

Assuming no major delays (but some delay is inevitable), I could see it being built and open in 6 years. There will be three civil works contracts, so likely to have the combined resources of several of the largest construction companies in this country (possibly with JVs), plus undoubtedly expertise from massive international companies for at least the tunnel. Resources spread all the way from Swords to Charlemont with works happening concurrently.

The main tunnel will obviously take the longest but at least the northern half can be handed over the the line wide systems contract started there, before moving into the tunnel once completed. This should mean that track installation and station fit out isn't reliant on completion of the tunnel.

Even if they can't open the northern section on it's own, it should be possible to start commissioning and even testing of rolling stock before track is laid in the tunnel. Hopefully this would speed up the process once the PPP co. get into the tunnel.

If construction starts H1 2024, opening in 2030 should certainly be possible.

loyatemu · 06-10-2021 9:13am

how long did the port tunnel take?

1huge1 · 06-10-2021 9:39am

Construction took around 5 years

JohnnyChimpo · 06-10-2021 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982242#Comment_117982242

MetroLink is also 4-5x time longer (admittedly not all underground). And not to underplay the complexity of the Port Tunnel, but a Metro involves much more complex interactions with the urban landscape of a much more central area of the city.

Chris_5339762 · 06-10-2021 10:48am

Leave 1 - 2, or even 3 years for the various inevitable appeals from entitled locals or someone from Wexford who thinks a rare worm will be injured during construction.

loyatemu · 06-10-2021 12:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982370#Comment_117982370

Port Tunnel is dual bore though, and I would guess bigger bore too. You're right about the complexity though, stations would add a lot of extra work for a start.

06-10-2021 12:11pm

When is this supposed to be finished and in operation?

Sam Russell · 06-10-2021 12:12pm

The Port Tunnel was our first real tunnel - well there was the JL tunnel in Cork.

Peregrine · 06-10-2021 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117983015#Comment_117983015

TBC

Pete_Cavan · 06-10-2021 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117983002#Comment_117983002

Stations require a lot of work but they don't really impact the timeline. The station box gets built while the tunnelling is happening and the TBM usually bores into the station box on one side and then out on the other. The tunnelling is the slow part, the station boxes are built simultaneously and the box just needs to be ready by the time the TBM gets there so it is the tunnel which determines the timeline.

marno21 · 07-10-2021 4:38pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/165453/0/1?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

RINA Consulting SpA appointed as independent engineering experts to review MetroLink documentation.

spacetweek · 08-10-2021 2:59pm

I emailed Eamon Ryan to complain about recent delays to large public transport investment projects. I got a long detailed email in reply. Here was the part relating to DART+.

"All three [BusConnects, Metrolink, DART+] face imminent and important milestones in the coming months and these milestones will determine the progress of each in the coming years.

Firstly, there is Government’s approval of the Preliminary Business Case and secondly there is the submission of Railway Order and planning applications to An Bord Pleanála.

On that first milestone, the Department of Transport has received Preliminary Business Cases for all three projects. This represents Decision Gate 1 under the Public Spending Code and those Preliminary Business Cases are currently under review. For major projects, like DART+, BusConnects and MetroLink, the Public Spending Code requires a Government decision and Minister Ryan expects to seek such a Government decision in the near future.

If approved by Government, that will allow the contracts to be signed in relation to DART+ Fleet and will also allow MetroLink, DART+ West and the Core Bus Corridors element of BusConnects move into the statutory planning system, subject to the completion of the necessary planning and environmental documentation.

The second impending milestone is the submission of Railway Order applications for DART+ West and MetroLink, and planning applications for the Core Bus Corridors. Those applications require the finalisation of an extensive set of documentation, including environmental impact assessment reports, and that work is ongoing in relation to all three projects.

On MetroLink the Department understands that an extensive body of work remains in relation to finalising the preliminary design, completing the required environmental impact assessment reports and closing out property referencing issues. This should be completed during Q1 next year and, subject to the Government decision mentioned above, the project will then be ready to seek planning permission."

marno21 · 08-10-2021 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989231#Comment_117989231

Anyone able to weigh in here on this? If these fellas are being appointed does that mean that MetroLink documentation is finalised pending review? If so, once this independent review is complete it'll be ready for submission to An Bord Pleanala?

Pete_Cavan · 09-10-2021 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993601#Comment_117993601

From the Information Memorandum (which is available to download in the documents from the link you posted);

Independent Engineering Expert Services

The Services for this Contract include but are not limited to:

(a) Provide a single point of contact acting as a Liaison manager between the Applicant, TII and Stakeholder Groups;

(b) Review all Publicised Emerging Preferred Route and Preferred Route documents;

(c) Review all Public Railway Order documents provided by TII, including design route drawings, the environmental impact assessment report and associated relevant technical papers and any other relevant documents;

(d) The Applicant shall attend meetings with Stakeholder Groups;

(e) The Applicant shall allow for collating questions from stakeholder groups and provide written feedback to TII and Stakeholder Groups;

(f) Develop a suitable report format and structure for the size and complexity of the required reports following relevant stakeholder meetings and agreement of report extent with the Contracting Authority;

(g) Provide report(s) for a non-technical readership on various aspects of the entire MetroLink design as detailed in the documents in the Railway Order Submission on issues and associated issues with the construction and operation of MetroLink;

(h) Chair open sessions to discuss with relevant Stakeholder Groups the findings of such report(s) and hold a Question & Answer session(s) as required; and

(i) The Applicant’s role is to objectively review and report on drawings and documents provided within the Railway Order. It does not extend to carrying out any design or analysis.

So their role is not just limited to looking at the finalised documents, they are also involved before then it seems. I take it from that that their appointment doesn't mean that the documentation is finalised, although it may well be. The publication of the award notice is just an administrative thing, the contract could have been award long before. It does appear that once this independent review is complete (and any recommendations from it actioned), it's ready for submission to ABP.

LXFlyer · 09-10-2021 11:02am

I think that the important caveat to add, is that once the review is complete, the government have to give their approval for it to go to the next stage which is ABP.

There's still that political dimension, which could delay things.

marno21 · 09-10-2021 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996825#Comment_117996825

Going by current media reports it appears this can get Government approval before submission to ABP. The current dates published in the press indicate Government approval this quarter and ABP submission in Q1 next year.

It’ll be an interesting debate at Cabinet where Ryan will be looking for approval for the biggest project in the history of the state from Ministers whose projects in their constituencies he has promised to obstruct as best he can.

Sam Russell · 09-10-2021 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996854#Comment_117996854

That cuts both ways though.

Ryan - 'I want this to get the go ahead - and fast. Your pet projects will not get ahead of this one.'

He should be out every week pushing this - it is the Greenest and greenest project out there.

Peregrine · 09-10-2021 11:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996854#Comment_117996854

Government approval has to come before an ABP application. The approval stage before signing the contracts is the big one.

It'll be Q2 before the application is submitted.

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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