HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

KoolKid · 09-04-2015 8:26pm

I am PMing you the files you need.
In Engineer goto File Firmware upgrade and select the next fw file from the ones I sent you .
Upgrade in order to 3.4.5>3.6.0>3.6.5

ScottDru · 22-04-2015 7:31pm

Hi, I've also got a self installed 4320 on FW version 3.2.5 and was looking to make the same Firmware upgrade. KoolKid, could I trouble you to send myself the same files if at all possible?
Many thanks in advance
Scott

KoolKid · 22-04-2015 9:07pm

Happy to.
PMing you those now. Its a major upgrade, back up your config file to your PC first & upgrade in order to 3-6-0 first then to 3-6-5

sosoi123 · 23-04-2015 3:33pm

Hi,

I am running a self installed SPC4320 on its factory supplied firmware (Version 2.1.3 listed on the status page). It is a great and reliable panel, however on the firmware side it looks like I am really behind the times

…

I would really appreciate your help with the firmware files.
Thanks a million,
Sorin

KoolKid · 23-04-2015 4:55pm

I'll send you all you need. It's best to upgrade to the next version to what you have each time.

sosoi123 · 23-04-2015 10:25pm

It worked a treat. Running latest firmware now, the web interface is better. Also SPC connect now works, so I no longer have to use the SPCanywhere app which was broken due to the SSLV3 problem.

This upgrade is really worth doing.

Thanks a million

:)

Sorin

KoolKid · 24-04-2015 7:31am

Yes it is a nice upgrade and some nice additions. Don't forget you also now have email alerts. You set this up from your Spc Connect account.

Chanquete · 25-04-2015 10:57pm

I may just join in here

- I have an SPC5300 under 3.6.0-R.19275 firmware. Koolkid, would you mind sending me instructions on how to upgrade to the latest firmware?

Thanks a million.

KoolKid · 26-04-2015 10:11am

I sent you a PM with the 365 Firmware.
Log in to the panel browser as engineer.
Select full engineer and goto file.
Back up your existing config file just in case.
Then goto firmware upgrade, browse to the file I sent you and select upgrade. Then confirm.

altor · 16-05-2015 12:39am

Stoner wrote: »

As it stands I get a log of the activity on the HKC panel, but on this set up I cant see the status of the different zones, I cant seem to isolate a zone or see the status of every zone, maybe I'm using it incorrectly but it does not have the same level of detail on the alarm as the Siemens one does.

The HKC app was updated to show zone status plus allow inhibiting of individual zone or zones before arming from the app. In the older app it would list open zones and then you could inhibit the open zones automatically by continuing to arm. Version 1.0.3 is the new App.

It also has site specific detail settings rather than global settings for multi sites.

KoolKid · 16-05-2015 1:16am

Is everything on the HKC app still using a GSM /GPRS connection only?
Have HKC started using the IP connection yet?

Stoner · 16-05-2015 12:48pm

altor wrote: »

The HKC app was updated to show zone status plus allow inhibiting of individual zone or zones before arming from the app. In the older app it would list open zones and then you could inhibit the open zones automatically by continuing to arm. Version 1.0.3 is the new App.

It also has site specific detail settings rather than global settings for multi sites.

I saw that, it is a handy feature on the Siemens app for me, got me out of a few scratches, it's a good feature on any app

KoolKid · 16-05-2015 1:28pm

Yes, Siemens had this from the very start, they also have it on the browser access.
You can inhibit all open zones in one go or individually.
You can also isolate zones open or any fault on the system.

Diggerdunne · 16-05-2015 6:40pm

Is a HKC wifi card or Lan card not IP??? If its not IP then they must have reinvented the whole Internet protocol to talk to it....

KoolKid · 16-05-2015 7:32pm

It's using a GPRS connection.
This leaves it vulnerable to GSM jammers.
Most other panels use your own internet connection. Ofcourse all other comms will have some sort of vulnerability as well.
The GSD panel can notify you if the connection to the servers are lost.

Diggerdunne · 16-05-2015 8:04pm

I assume you are referring to the wifi card and not the Lan card???

Evolution1 · 16-05-2015 8:32pm

Koolkid.
The Wifi card uses IP
The LAN card Uses IP

What makes you think they use GPRS ?

Diggerdunne · 16-05-2015 9:06pm

Yeah my point exactly.... Since when does IP use GPRS????
Have never seen it... IP is IP... Internet based...

KoolKid · 16-05-2015 9:09pm

So you no longer need the GSM & SIM card to use the app?
Apologies I was not aware of this update.
So can you now connect the alarm to your own internet connection instead of using GPRS via their SIM card?
If this is the case is there also an option to connect directly to your panel from its IP address?

Diggerdunne · 16-05-2015 9:18pm

http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/ethernet-adaptor-card/communicators/#.VVd_X1tN1FI
http://www.hkcsecurity.com/ie/product/wifi-card/communicators/#.VVelultN1FI

A quick HKC search tells you IP is available... How you access the panel is HKC's choice and that i don't know as i don't have either....

KoolKid · 16-05-2015 9:45pm

I always thought communication between the panel & securecom was only available via GSM modem using their SIM card. If this has changed to allow use of an existing internet connection as either an alternative or as a second path that would be a most welcome improvement.

Evolution1 · 16-05-2015 10:29pm

Its been like that a quite a while now. Three options to allow APP access.

GPRS = provides push, voice, modem and text alerts.
WIFI = provides push, voice, modem and text alerts.
LAN= provides push, voice, modem and text alerts.

fred funk }{ · 17-05-2015 12:20am

KoolKid wrote: »

I always thought communication between the panel & securecom was only available via GSM modem using their SIM card. If this has changed to allow use of an existing internet connection as either an alternative or as a second path that would be a most welcome improvement.

It's always been WiFi card, LAN card or GSM. Covers all angles TBH.

KoolKid · 17-05-2015 12:40am

I wasn't aware of that . Thanks for the update.
So is the subscription the same even if there are no SIM charges?

fred funk }{ · 17-05-2015 12:41am

KoolKid wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that . Thanks for the update.
So is the subscription the same even if there are no SIM charges?

Yes.

fred funk }{ · 17-05-2015 12:44am

KoolKid wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that . Thanks for the update.
So is the subscription the same even if there are no SIM charges?

Pretty good service if you're happy to pay the fiver a month, would you agree?

KoolKid · 17-05-2015 12:45am

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Pretty good service if you're happy to pay the fiver a month, would you agree?

Not for using your own internet connection. No.

Evolution1 · 17-05-2015 10:27pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Not for using your own internet connection. No.

Why not ? Youre not just getting push notifications when using the WiFi or LAN card. You're getting VOICE CALLS and TEXTS to your phone as well as push via your internet connection. No one else's offers all this through their IP setups.

KoolKid · 17-05-2015 10:44pm

So without using the SIM you get Voice ,Text & Push notifications just via your internet connection. And this connection is through either WiFi or LAN via your own ISP.
Is that correct?

Evolution1 · 17-05-2015 11:10pm

KoolKid wrote: »

So without using the SIM you get Voice ,Text & Push notifications just via your internet connection. And this connection is through either WiFi or LAN via your own ISP.
Is that correct?

Yes correct

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 7:43am

So is the subscription the same whether using IP connection or the sim card with GSM?

18-05-2015 7:43am

Is this the same on the Siemens ?

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 7:46am

No,
The Siemens Panel uses IP which gives you email alerts and remote access via the app or via a browser. There is no charges for the app and there is no subscription charges. Risco would be the same with push notifications also.

18-05-2015 8:18am

KoolKid wrote: »

No,
The Siemens Panel uses IP which gives you email alerts and remote access via the app or via a browser. There is no charges for the app and there is no subscription charges. Risco would be the same with push notifications also.

So the HKC is slightly more secure but there is a small additional cost?

I think we are splitting hairs here.
Clearly they are both excellent alarms.

It is just down to personal preference.

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 8:42am

I agree. But it seems a bit unfair that you have to pay the same subscription charge as those paying for sim card charges. There is also no free option for those customers who want alerts and the use of an app. My main point on this is there are many different ways to get multiple alerts and free remote access without the need to sign up to ongoing subscriptions.
Does anyone know if there was any information at the recent road shows about the new price plans?

18-05-2015 8:46am

KoolKid wrote: »

I agree.

But it seems a bit unfair that you have to pay the same subscription charge as those paying for sim card charges.

It's not "unfair" because:

(a) You get better security for your money.

(b) You don't have to install the HKC panel, you could opt for the almost identical Siemens system.

Back to splitting hairs.....

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 9:32am

We always advise that customers shop around and compare prices like for like.
As an installer, in my experience, customers want an app and alerts. We install more IP panels than standard panels at this stage. Less than 5%of those would be looking for multiple paths etc. If they do this can still be done without signing up for a subscription.
Any one who wants the more secure options would see there is better value and security spending your subscription money on central station monitoring.

Evolution1 · 18-05-2015 10:29am

Its the same €4.99 month for the LAN GSM or WiFi even if you use all three modules.... If you opt for monitoring this covers all daily calls to the station aswell. So if you installed a WIFI module and GSM then the €4.99 could be considered the charge to keep the sim active. Even though the €4.99 is justified for the IP modules since youre getting voice + text.No messing with keeping sims topped up and checking balance.

18-05-2015 12:53pm

KoolKid wrote: »

We always advise that customers shop around and compare prices like for like.
As an installer, in my experience, customers want an app and alerts. We install more IP panels than standard panels at this stage. Less than 5%of those would be looking for multiple paths etc. If they do this can still be done without signing up for a subscription.
Any one who wants the more secure options would see there is better value and security spending your subscription money on central station monitoring.

Will the Siemens system let the user know if the panel is down?

18-05-2015 3:21pm

Evolution1 wrote: »

Its the same €4.99 month for the LAN GSM or WiFi even if you use all three modules.... If you opt for monitoring this covers all daily calls to the station aswell. So if you installed a WIFI module and GSM then the €4.99 could be considered the charge to keep the sim active. Even though the €4.99 is justified for the IP modules since youre getting voice + text.No messing with keeping sims topped up and checking balance.

Fair point.
So we really are splitting hairs, although the HKC has a €4.99 monthly charge it provides the end user with more secure comms and it lets the user know if the panel goes down. I have to say that would swing it for me.

However that is not to say that the Siemens is not a good panel too.

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 3:46pm

If you use another path the Siemens SPC will be able to notify of network failures.
It is on the cards for a later update.
It's also fair to state GSD does give alerts of comms fails and smash and grap alerts. There is no charges there either.
I'm not saying Siemens is perfect for every application either. No panel is either. But most manufacturers are offering free apps and free alerts etc. Including polling. HKC and PW are the only ones I know that don't offer free app and use.

18-05-2015 4:50pm

KoolKid wrote: »

If you use another path the Siemens SPC will be able to notify of network failures.
It is on the cards for a later update.
It's also fair to state GSD does give alerts of comms fails and smash and grap alerts.

It does, but these alerts are not given to the end user so you are not comparing like with like.

However the HKC does a handshake every few minutes making it far more secure.

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 5:41pm

I think you are confusing polling and notifications. If you are comparing polling, the new Spc panels can be set to poll every few seconds if more secure is what you want . The alerts can then be sent down multiple ATS paths as well as to monitoring stations or any other comms method you want.

Evolution1 · 18-05-2015 6:01pm

KoolKid wrote: »

I think you are confusing polling and notifications. If you are comparing polling, the new Spc panels can be set to poll every few seconds if more secure is what you want . The alerts can then be sent down multiple ATS paths as well as to monitoring stations or any other comms method you want.

Yes only if the comm path is available . if all your paths fail then will you be notified on the Siemens like you would with HKC?

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 6:33pm

Only if you are using external monitoring. That feature is available on the GSD systems along with their smash and grab alerts at no cost to the customer.

18-05-2015 6:36pm

Evolution1 wrote: »

Yes only if the comm path is available . if all your paths fail then will you be notified on the Siemens like you would with HKC?

Exactly, my information is that you won't.
This is where the HKC has the edge.

Evolution1 · 18-05-2015 6:38pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Only if you are using external monitoring.

So the end user won't be notified unless they opt for external monitoring. Is this a free service ??

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 6:45pm

The HKC will only give you that notification if you pay their subscription.
The Siemens will do the same if you use another third party form of monitoring.
The only difference I see is who you pay.
The benefits I see is Siemens and the other systems let you use the app and remote access without paying. Also that Risco and Siemens give you access from any web browser should you have no data connection on your phone or tablet.

18-05-2015 7:31pm

KoolKid wrote: »

I think you are confusing polling and notifications.

My understanding is that the HKC polls a server that is external to the premises that is being protected by the alarm system. In the event that the panel goes down the end user will receive a notification via the APP. Is that correct, or am I missing something?

I ma also led to believe that the Siemens panel has an internal server. In the event of the panel going down the end user is not notified. They will only know if they open the APP and can't connect. Is this correct?

Let's flesh this out:
I want an alarm system to notify me when it is down without me having to "ask it" by opening the APP.
The HKC will do this at a cost, will the Siemens do this for free?

If you are comparing polling, the new Spc panels can be set to poll every few seconds if more secure is what you want

So are you saying that this will this generate a notification to the end user automatically just like the HKC does but at no cost?

The alerts can then be sent down multiple ATS paths as well as to monitoring stations or any other comms method you want.

Just to be clear on a public forum: ATS is Alarm Transmission System?

This may well be true but no monitoring station will give you this alert for €4.99 a month or am I missing something?

It's also fair to state GSD does give alerts of comms fails and smash and grap alerts.

Perhaps, but I am comparing HKC to Siemens and making the point that the differences are so minor that we are splitting hairs. The GSD is a completely different panel.

The only difference I see is who you pay.

This is exactly my point, the HKC and Siemens panels are pretty much identical in terms of what they can offer the end user. The HKC has a slight edge in my opinion because it offers a few more handy features such as wire free sensors.

KoolKid · 18-05-2015 8:23pm

2011 wrote: »

I ma also led to believe that the Siemens panel has an internal server. In the event of the panel going down the end user is not notified. They

Not entirely. Like HKC it is a cloud service that connects via SPC Connect.
The panel is constantly polling this server based on the settings of each individual ATS. Multiple ATS can be set up where the panel can report to . This can be a monitoring station or any other server. In theory you could probably set something up yourself to an IP address.
The benefit with Siemens here is Siemens also allows you to connect directly to your panels own web server as well. So even if the cloud service goes down you can connect directly to your panel as well.

2011 wrote: »

Let's flesh this out:
I want an alarm system to notify me when it is down without me having to "ask it" by opening the APP.
The HKC will do this at a cost, will the Siemens do this for free?

It will do it for free via another path or it could be set up an a paid service in any number of ways via either another ATS or via any number of GSM options. We have researched international SIM charges and it could well be set up in a number of ways for cheaper than €4.99 per month.

2011 wrote: »

So are you saying that this will this generate a notification to the end user automatically just like the HKC does but at no cost?

As above

2011 wrote: »

Just to be clear on a public forum: ATS is Alarm Transmission System?

This may well be true but no monitoring station will give you this alert for €4.99 a month or am I missing something?

There are plenty of ways to do this without paying a monitoring station.
Remember HKC are not a monitoring Station .

2011 wrote: »

Perhaps, but I am comparing HKC to Siemens and making the point that the differences are so minor that we are splitting hairs. The GSD is a completely different panel.

It is. But it was stated earlier to include all app systems in this thread so I think its only fair when one panel is getting promoted to included others that do the same for less.

2011 wrote: »

This is exactly my point, the HKC and Siemens panels are pretty much identical in terms of what they can offer the end user. The HKC has a slight edge in my opinion because it offers a few more handy features such as wire free sensors.

If its extra features you want I could write a list a mile long with Siemens over others. But as this thread is about the app features that might be for another thread. You can use wire free sensors with Siemens also.

HKC VS Siemens App Discussion Stickey Temp

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