F1 2019 - Round 14 Italy

Cork Trucker · 08-09-2019 6:21pm

Faugheen wrote: »

He’s not as likeable as other drivers but name me one multiple time world champion who was?

Fangio
Graham Hill
Jackie Stewart

Inviere · 08-09-2019 6:21pm

Faugheen wrote: »

People just love to have a moan at him. He’s not as likeable as other drivers but name me one multiple time world champion who was? Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Vettel - all thoroughly unlikeable personalities.

Save your breath friend, the begrudgery and hatred for Hamilton was always bizarre, and always will be. Sure, he gooses up now and again with a silly comment, but as you say, so do many drivers when in the thick of it. Can you imagine if there was a mic on every footballer on a pitch during big important games? There'd be more than a few eyebrows raised I'm sure. People get emotional during intense moments, and that intensity often takes time to die down.

Kimi does nothing but whine on the radio, but gets a free pass because 'he's a gas lad'. As I said, it's irrational, and very often says more about the people dishing it out than they'd care to admit. It's sport though, you'll always get polar opposites, seeing things through certain lenses.

Inviere · 08-09-2019 6:24pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Jackie Stewart

H3llR4iser · 08-09-2019 6:24pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Always amazed me why Senna never tried to punch Mansell after that yet he did it to Irvine for unlapping himself, Irvine's version of events was that he fell backwards which i severely doubt. Schumacher probably should have gotten the black flag for what happened with Barrichello in 2010

Well...in all fairness, the 1989 situation in Estoril was partly Ayrton's fault as well, he DID shut the door when Mansel had half the car alongside (and it WAS Mansell, you could count on him not lifting up) and he was bound to have seen the black flag with the "27" sign - or at least the team would've told him. Again, hindsight is always easy...

If the black flag was used like a red card in football, Schumacher would have racked up quite a few, not just Budapest 2010...he had a habit of squeezing other drivers on the grass / against a wall.

PukkaStukka · 08-09-2019 6:29pm

Faugheen wrote: »

‘Hamilton must be one of the worst losers in the history of sport’

Yet the first thing he did was congratulate LeClerc and Ferrari.

Some people really don’t like him to the point they just make up stuff about him. It’s quite sad really.

Hamilton has form for being nice to his competitors in front of the camera and then having a big moan into the mic later. He is a truly brilliant driver in the car and it all goes wrong the minute he opens his mouth out of it

Hats of to Ferrari for getting the tyre strategy bang on. When I saw the hards going on, I knew leclerc would be defending like mad and I knew Hamilton would run out of rubber prematurely trying to hard.

The Ferrari engine is a beast. It outspanked the Merc even with DRS

Inviere · 08-09-2019 6:49pm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

The Ferrari engine is a beast. It outspanked the Merc even with DRS

It really is, they've clearly outdeveloped Merc in the power department anyway. Have they still got that trick rumoured double battery thingy going on, which was purported from last season?

08-09-2019 7:01pm

They need to do something about chicane run-offs, a run-off needs to be slower than navigating the corner. If you're there it's because you've made a mistake and mistakes are supposed to cost you time or position. It's ridiculous that a driver can lock up, skip across the run off and come back onto track still ahead of a guy who was right on his tail. Slap in the face to the chasing driver who hasn't made the mistake.

It was the same in Canada with Hamilton against Vettel.

They either need some further physical obstacle (bigger kerbs) or they need a rule that if you cut a corner you need to post a 1-2s slower sector time.

PukkaStukka · 08-09-2019 7:24pm

Inviere wrote: »

It really is, they've clearly outdeveloped Merc in the power department anyway. Have they still got that trick rumoured double battery thingy going on, which was purported from last season?

I believe they are yes. However the two batteries are the same as one big one and I believe are split for better weight distribution. A number of teams mumbled about it last year to the extent that the FIA installed sensors at a number of tracks to ensure it was all perfectly legal and the FIA deemed it so.

I think the advantage Ferrari has now is attributable to decision they took five years ago to invest almost €500m in a hybrid engine R&D and building plant.

Mercedes had their engine advantage effectively locked in for the first three seasons of the hybrid era thanks initially to the engines being frozen in the first two years and the "token" system thereafter. Now that's gone, it allows everyone else to close that gap.

Burkie1203 · 08-09-2019 8:09pm

Coulthard on CH4 highlights giving a Lewis fanboy performance.

Hamilton has cut many a corner or chicane and got away with it and they made all sorts of excuses in the past for why he shouldn't be penalised. Now he is "I don't want penalties but LeClerc should be penalised"

This is it · 08-09-2019 8:12pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Coulthard on CH4 highlights giving a Lewis fanboy performance.

Hamilton has cut many a corner or chicane and got away with it and they made all sorts of excuses in the past for why he shouldn't be penalised. Now he is "I don't want penalties but LeClerc should be penalised"

I'm watching as well and as much as I'm delighted LeClerc won and Hamilton didn't, it's strange that he didn't get any penalty for pushing Lewis off or cutting the chicane. If Hamilton had done either I'd be screaming for a penalty

Burkie1203 · 08-09-2019 8:16pm

This is it wrote: »

I'm watching as well and as much as I'm delighted LeClerc won and Hamilton didn't, it's strange that he didn't get any penalty for pushing Lewis off or cutting the chicane. If Hamilton had done either I'd be screaming for a penalty

Hamilton got away with plenty in the past

Two spring to mind
Riccardo in Monaco
Cut first corner in Mexico

This is it · 08-09-2019 8:23pm

Couple of small mistakes from LeClerc but that was a fantastic drive. Had Hamilton or Botas in his mirrors for the whole race and managed to fend them off, delighted for him. Future world champion for sure.

Charlie-Bravo · 08-09-2019 8:31pm

At least today with a young head on his shoulders, Le Clerc showed that he can now race against the more experienced, and be strong-armed. With fewer mistakes happening, and Vettel going in the opposite direction, he's making the team his own.

Harika · 08-09-2019 8:33pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fangio
Graham Hill
Jackie Stewart

How old were you when Jackie won his last championship? none of those drivers were in the thick of this media scrutiny of nowadays.

Jeff2 · 08-09-2019 8:47pm

This is it wrote: »

Couple of small mistakes from LeClerc but that was a fantastic drive. Had Hamilton or Botas in his mirrors for the whole race and managed to fend them off, delighted for him. Future world champion for sure.

Yeah, he was on herd tyres the second half and Hamilton on medium so I was sure he'd be cought but held it together in the end.

Great drive.

Cork Trucker · 08-09-2019 8:52pm

Harika wrote: »

How old were you when Jackie won his last championship? none of those drivers were in the thick of this media scrutiny of nowadays.

I was -7 when he won the last in 1973, not 7 but -7

As for the media bit, thank Bernard Charles Ecclestone for that.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 1:45am

That was a real edge of the seat race for me. Properly cheering on a Ferrari again in Italy, I missed that.

Ferrari made the right choice with Leclerc for this year, that is firmly out to bed now.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 1:48am

vectra wrote: »

He is one of the worst losers in the history of the sport I reckon.

:eek::eek: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO..!!!!

Yeah...I mean who would write something as awful as this? :rolleyes:

flazio · 09-09-2019 5:53am

This is it wrote: »

I'm watching as well and as much as I'm delighted LeClerc won and Hamilton didn't, it's strange that he didn't get any penalty for pushing Lewis off or cutting the chicane. If Hamilton had done either I'd be screaming for a penalty

He got a black and white flag waved at him for unsporting behaviour after forcing Hamilton wide at the second chicane. Ben Edwards explained that Charlie never really used it and just went straight for time penalties. David Croft explained it's like a yellow card in field sports, do the same again and you will get a penalty, not as severe as the red card (black flag) but a time penalty that we are used to.
From what I can remember, every driver was allowed get away with just one cut of the chicane or run down the escape road. It doesn't come under unsporting behaviour so it's not a black and white flag situation.

ctrl-alt-delete · 09-09-2019 6:02am

Gintonious wrote: »

Yeah...I mean who would write something as awful as this? :rolleyes:

You've misinterpreted that picture,

Hamilton was trying to keep him in the car and telling him to go back out and go through that chicane!

Joeface · 09-09-2019 10:56am

Some turn around in races since the start of the year, We got off to a poor start . but is it the last 5 have been hugely entertaining .

Great race at the front that was a long battle and for once the Tyre difference seems to have been right , Lewis was faster on the medium but the hard had more life . Charles L drove a great race . Lucky with his mistake not costing him too much going over the bumps and Though he matched every move Lewis made perfectly . That Ferrari in a straight line is Unreal quick. DRS on the Mercedes really ment nothing . Bottas did F-up but I dont think he would have got past , his tyres might have been 7 laps younger but he used an awful lot of them Catching up and put in a lot of fastest laps doing it . He even backed off for a lap just after passing lewis to recover them.

Looking Down the field , yeah Vettel poor start , but Thought he was recovering before the spin , and then clipping Stroll as he came back on.. Pretty sure that was a complete accident that he just didnt see him as Stroll did the exact same thing to Gasly when trying to come back on. Vettel penalty was totally correct . Bad race from him and his Challange this season is pretty much done . Still rate him as one of the best drivers just more prone to ups and downs. and a lotta downs this season . Not sure what Ferrari can do from here to actually stop lewis this season.

Max was good Start , kind a sloppy for the bump at the start . Thought he would have been further up the field but maybe after kvyat enigine went the Honda's all pulled back .

Good Result for the Renaults . Might a comfortable 4th and 5th .

vectra · 09-09-2019 11:31am

Gintonious wrote: »

That was a real edge of the seat race for me. Properly cheering on a Ferrari again in Italy, I missed that.

Ferrari made the right choice with Leclerc for this year, that is firmly out to bed now.

For once I agree with you, I didn't expect Charles to step up to this level so quick.

Gintonious wrote: »

Yeah...I mean who would write something as awful as this? :rolleyes:

And guess what, There was a camera there to show how "nice" Hamilton is. :pac::pac:

H3llR4iser · 09-09-2019 11:36am

Joeface wrote: »

Some turn around in races since the start of the year, We got off to a poor start . but is it the last 5 have been hugely entertaining .

Great race at the front that was a long battle and for once the Tyre difference seems to have been right , Lewis was faster on the medium but the hard had more life . Charles L drove a great race . Lucky with his mistake not costing him too much going over the bumps and Though he matched every move Lewis made perfectly . That Ferrari in a straight line is Unreal quick. DRS on the Mercedes really ment nothing . Bottas did F-up but I dont think he would have got past , his tyres might have been 7 laps younger but he used an awful lot of them Catching up and put in a lot of fastest laps doing it . He even backed off for a lap just after passing lewis to recover them.

Looking Down the field , yeah Vettel poor start , but Thought he was recovering before the spin , and then clipping Stroll as he came back on.. Pretty sure that was a complete accident that he just didnt see him as Stroll did the exact same thing to Gasly when trying to come back on. Vettel penalty was totally correct . Bad race from him and his Challange this season is pretty much done . Still rate him as one of the best drivers just more prone to ups and downs. and a lotta downs this season . Not sure what Ferrari can do from here to actually stop lewis this season.

Max was good Start , kind a sloppy for the bump at the start . Thought he would have been further up the field but maybe after kvyat enigine went the Honda's all pulled back .

Good Result for the Renaults . Might a comfortable 4th and 5th .

Seb needs a "reset", he's a smart guy and the basics are definitely still there - you luck into a race win not WDCs, less than anything 4 of them, regardless of what you drive. Only him and the team know what's going on, and it's not unfair to say Ferrari have been less than stellar supporting their drivers the last few years. This season alone the team's idiotic choices and blunders threw away no less than 3 race wins, not to mention the fact they get regularly "swallowed up" by Mercedes and Red Bull in the in-season development race.

Even in a season where everything is going south for him, without the silly penalty in Canada and Ferrari's issues in Germany and Austria, he would have 2 or maybe 3 wins to his name.

If they can help Vettel get back into his A-game, Ferrari have a fearsome combination between drivers and power unit; They need to deliver in the chassis department. Hopefully they will switch all resources to next year's car now.

Anjobe · 09-09-2019 1:32pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Seb needs a "reset", he's a smart guy and the basics are definitely still there - you luck into a race win not WDCs, less than anything 4 of them, regardless of what you drive. Only him and the team know what's going on...

Not sure about that, it is pretty clear from the outside. He was under pressure anyway after 2 poor years, now he has a teammate who is quicker than him in a car that does not suit his driving style. Seb does, after all, have previous of struggling in these circumstances.

H3llR4iser wrote: »

If they can help Vettel get back into his A-game...

Can't see Ferrari putting any effort into this, it looks like they are 100% behind LeClerc as their #1 now.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 5:09pm

vectra wrote: »

And guess what, There was a camera there to show how "nice" Hamilton is. :pac::pac:

Crazy, a camera was taking pictures in the F1 paddock and caught Hamilton being nice and sportsmanlike, must be a conspiracy.

Clearly you know more about how he is personally, those radio messages are a real insight to the man :rolleyes:

chicorytip · 09-09-2019 5:18pm

I think Leclerc was lucky rather than brilliant yesterday. He should have been passed by both Mercs in the latter stages were it not for bad mistakes at critical moments from Hamilton and Bottas. Mercedes had the straight line speed and the correct strategy but it was driver error that let them down.

vectra · 09-09-2019 5:22pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Crazy, a camera was taking pictures in the F1 paddock and caught Hamilton being nice and sportsmanlike, must be a conspiracy.

Clearly you know more about how he is personally, those radio messages are a real insight to the man :rolleyes:

You are a bit of a one man band if you seriously think Hamilton is a nice compassionate guy.

This is it · 09-09-2019 6:18pm

chicorytip wrote: »

I think Leclerc was lucky rather than brilliant yesterday. He should have been passed by both Mercs in the latter stages were it not for bad mistakes at critical moments from Hamilton and Bottas. Mercedes had the straight line speed and the correct strategy but it was driver error that let them down.

Ferrari had the straight line speed, it's how LeClerc won, Mercedes couldn't catch Ferrari even with DRS. There was even a moment during the race where Hamilton said "he's super fast on the straights" referring to LeClerc.

All drivers made errors, LeClerc just made ones that were less damaging to his race. He was under crazy pressure from start to finish, incredible drive by him

flazio · 09-09-2019 6:25pm

vectra wrote: »

You are a bit of a one man band if you seriously think Hamilton is a nice compassionate guy.

Because sending your race winners trophy and a race winning car to a very sick child is a clear sign of a gob****e.

Inviere · 09-09-2019 6:29pm

flazio wrote: »

Because sending your race winners trophy and a race winning car to a very sick child is a clear sign of a gob****e.

Best not to feed it man, you'll only get the "all for the cameras" bs back.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 6:39pm

vectra wrote: »

You are a bit of a one man band if you seriously think Hamilton is a nice compassionate guy.

I was thinking the same thing about you mate. :P

You'd bash Hamilton if he tied his shoe laces in a way you didn't like.

the_pen_turner · 09-09-2019 6:52pm

In fairness to Hamilton he isn't as much of a knob as he was years ago. Most of the people that dislike him are basing it on years ago . If it was only the last year or 2 then most people would like him

pjohnson · 09-09-2019 6:53pm

I still feel very sorry for Bonnington. Lewis seems ridiculously moany over the radio.

pjohnson · 09-09-2019 6:53pm

And that was brilliant from Leclerc. What a drive!

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 6:55pm

pjohnson wrote: »

I still feel very sorry for Bonnington. Lewis seems ridiculously moany over the radio.

Honestly, I think peoples opinion of Hamilton comes from his radio chatter, in which case he is like every other driver on the grid. All they do is moan or complain about things, it's in their nature.

We just hear more of Hamiltons radio.

tigerboon · 09-09-2019 7:01pm

I'm not a fan of Hamilton but I didn't think he was unsportsmanlike or moany yesterday. He mentioned that LeClerc pushed him wide that time at the 2nd chicane which was borderline anyway. He mentioned that LeClerc was quick...hardly a moan just a statement of fact. Didn't notice anything else.
One person I can't stand on the radios is Raikkonen. Sounds like a screeching auld hag

vectra · 09-09-2019 7:36pm

flazio wrote: »

Because sending your race winners trophy and a race winning car to a very sick child is a clear sign of a gob****e.

Publicity !

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 7:47pm

vectra wrote: »

Publicity !

Jesus, that is pathetic.

vectra · 09-09-2019 8:32pm

Gintonious wrote: »

Jesus, that is pathetic.

Well,
You know what they say about opinions.

Frank Bullitt · 09-09-2019 8:56pm

vectra wrote: »

Well,
You know what they say about opinions.

I don't think you are grasping how badly you are coming across with all of this. Lewis Hamilton sent his trophy to a dying child for publicity...get real.

PukkaStukka · 09-09-2019 9:21pm

I'm loathe to get involved in a spat that had nothing to do with me but I must say this. I don't like Hamilton, I think he's a brilliant driver who ruins it for himself the minute he opens his mouth. However he and his team went to extraordinary lengths to make the wish of terminally ill child come through. That does deserve respect and I would park any notion of this being a cynical act on his or his team's part. I applaud them for what they did.

https://www.facebook.com/360751481085554/posts/583032305524136/

nf2k · 11-09-2019 9:12am

LeClerc was excellent. I can't help but feel that Vettel's time has passed. If he gets to stay at Ferrari next year he needs to spend the rest of his time getting his mind in the right place. Play the long game.

AMKC · 11-09-2019 8:43pm

nf2k wrote: »

LeClerc was excellent. I can't help but feel that Vettel's time has passed. If he gets to stay at Ferrari next year he needs to spend the rest of his time getting his mind in the right place. Play the long game.

That's a big If. I would say it depends on how Vettel does at the rest of the races.

weekaizer · 12-09-2019 1:05am

AMKC wrote: »

That's a big If. I would say it depends on how Vettel does at the rest of the races.

I’ve never been a fan of vettel. He started off very impressively in 2008 winning at Monza in the wet, unbelievable drive but that’s over 10 years ago now...

In my honest humble and entitled opinion, vettel is finished and he should give up on his dream of winning a title for Ferrari as leclerc is the driver Ferrari need to build their team around. He has the speed, consistency, youth and hopefully the temperment to deliver their next drivers title.

I think Vettel should be thankful of his 4 titles and either retire or he needs to settle for a number 2 status which I don’t even think he has the consistency or mind set to do particularly well at anyway.

weekaizer · 12-09-2019 1:06am

I’ve never been a fan of vettel. He started off very impressively in 2008 winning at Monza in the wet, unbelievable drive but that’s over 10 years ago now...

In my honest humble and entitled opinion, vettel is finished and he should give up on his dream of winning a title for Ferrari as leclerc is the driver Ferrari need to build their team around. He has the speed, consistency, youth and hopefully the temperment to deliver their next drivers title.

I think Vettel should be thankful of his 4 titles and either retire or he needs to settle for a number 2 status which I don’t even think he has the consistency or mind set to do particularly well at anyway.

Inquitus · 13-09-2019 4:58pm

weekaizer wrote: »

I’ve never been a fan of vettel. He started off very impressively in 2008 winning at Monza in the wet, unbelievable drive but that’s over 10 years ago now...

In my honest humble and entitled opinion, vettel is finished and he should give up on his dream of winning a title for Ferrari as leclerc is the driver Ferrari need to build their team around. He has the speed, consistency, youth and hopefully the temperment to deliver their next drivers title.

I think Vettel should be thankful of his 4 titles and either retire or he needs to settle for a number 2 status which I don’t even think he has the consistency or mind set to do particularly well at anyway.

I would agree, unless Vettel re-asserts himself above LeClerc in the remainder of the season he is definitely in trouble. LeClerc should have won twice and had a great chance in Baku had he not crashed in Qualifying. He is young, mature, driving great and someone Ferrari can build around for the coming years. If they get the chassis right next year, they defo have a fair bit more power than the Merc engine does and they should be able to have a good run at the World Championship.

nf2k · 16-09-2019 12:55pm

Inquitus wrote: »

I would agree, unless Vettel re-asserts himself above LeClerc in the remainder of the season he is definitely in trouble. LeClerc should have won twice and had a great chance in Baku had he not crashed in Qualifying. He is young, mature, driving great and someone Ferrari can build around for the coming years. If they get the chassis right next year, they defo have a fair bit more power than the Merc engine does and they should be able to have a good run at the World Championship.

He had some other missed chances too, Monaco could have gone a lot better for him, for example.

Ferrari are great in a straight line, I wonder is that due to the engine or the aero? Mercedes have an aero package that can corner quickly, did Ferrari design a package that can go quicker in a straight line? It would be a very short-sighted strategy, helping them win in places like Spa or Monza but not very good in the twisty circuits (of which there are many in the Tilke era). If that is the case then they need even more efforts to get the aero right as the engine may not be as far out ahead as one might think at first.

AMKC · 17-09-2019 6:40pm

nf2k wrote: »

He had some other missed chances too, Monaco could have gone a lot better for him, for example.

Ferrari are great in a straight line, I wonder is that due to the engine or the aero? Mercedes have an aero package that can corner quickly, did Ferrari design a package that can go quicker in a straight line? It would be a very short-sighted strategy, helping them win in places like Spa or Monza but not very good in the twisty circuits (of which there are many in the Tilke era). If that is the case then they need even more efforts to get the aero right as the engine may not be as far out ahead as one might think at first.

It was the engine but Ferrari have improved there aero over the last couple of races now as well which is what has helped them win the last two races and stay ahead of Mercedes. They have more upgrades coming this weekend at Singapore which should help them again.

F1 2019 - Round 14 Italy

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