Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

uxiant · 13-09-2018 10:25pm

New timetable has been excellent from my experience although I miss the height of rush hour as I tend to get the train into work just before 9 and leave a little later. Finally our suburban rail service runs at a somewhat decent frequency.

Sounds like the only issue is a few 4 carriage DARTs being being overcrowded. Hopefully IR can spare a few more 8 car sets for these services but I imagine in time people will start making use of the added frequency and the loads will spread out. My dad only realised there was a new timetable when I told him yesterday and I imagine others are still turning up for the train at the same time leading to overcrowding.

Carawaystick · 13-09-2018 10:52pm

Irish rail spent a year of no rail service on weekends to lengthen platforms for 8 car darts and then didn't buy enough carriages.
Genuises.

LeinsterDub · 13-09-2018 10:56pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Irish rail spent a year of no rail service on weekends to lengthen platforms for 8 car darts and then didn't buy enough carriages.
Genuises.

They can only spend the money they've been given in fairness

Decuc500 · 13-09-2018 11:03pm

uxiant wrote: »

New timetable has been excellent from my experience although I miss the height of rush hour as I tend to get the train into work just before 9 and leave a little later. Finally our suburban rail service runs at a somewhat decent frequency.

Sounds like the only issue is a few 4 carriage DARTs being being overcrowded. Hopefully IR can spare a few more 8 car sets for these services but I imagine in time people will start making use of the added frequency and the loads will spread out. My dad only realised there was a new timetable when I told him yesterday and I imagine others are still turning up for the train at the same time leading to overcrowding.

There's more than 'a few' 4 car sets in operation with the new timetable. From my experience most trains from Malahide and Howth before 9 am are short trains. This combined with 20 minute gaps means it's been chaos every morning on the northside.

I've been using the dart for over 25 years and this weeks rush hours have been the worst overcrowding I've ever seen on it.

They quite simply don't have enough carriages for an all day 10 minute service. But they already knew that.

ixoy · 13-09-2018 11:03pm

uxiant wrote: »

New timetable has been excellent from my experience although I miss the height of rush hour as I tend to get the train into work just before 9 and leave a little later. Finally our suburban rail service runs at a somewhat decent frequency.

Are you travelling in from the southside or northside? The issues seem to be disproportionately affecting the northside, not least because of the removal of the diesel trains from some stations.

LeinsterDub · 13-09-2018 11:11pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

There's more than 'a few' 4 car sets in operation with the new timetable. From my experience most trains from Malahide and Howth before 9 am are short trains. This combined with 20 minute gaps means it's been chaos every morning on the northside.

I've been using the dart for over 25 years and this weeks rush hours have been the worst overcrowding I've ever seen on it.

They quite simply don't have enough carriages for an all day 10 minute service. But they already knew that.

Where are all the 8 car sets in the morning?

Cookie_Monster · 13-09-2018 11:14pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Where are all the 8 car sets in the morning?

half here and half there :pac:

Jamie2k9 · 13-09-2018 11:37pm

Find it hard to believe that all these "mechanical faults" are true. Would be good to see driver absenteeism this week over last week. Its no surprise they are not happy but they demanded a shorter week and from day one Irish Rail said that's fine but you will drive more hours within that shorter week. Commuter/DART drivers come out worse than Intercity drivers and anybody could see this. They cannot do anything now to change this so if all these issues run into next week we can conclude it is industrial related.

devnull · 13-09-2018 11:40pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Find it hard to believe that all these "mechanical faults" are true. Would be good to see driver absenteeism this week over last week. Its no surprise they are not happy but they demanded a shorter week and from day one Irish Rail said that's fine but you will drive more hours within that shorter week. Commuter/DART drivers come out worse than Intercity drivers and anybody could see this. They cannot do anything now to change this so if all these issues run into next week we can conclude it is industrial related.

I believe there is also a split in the driver grade for DART services, apparently some are on one set of terms and conditions and one may be on another set, not sure if that's true or not but something I've heard on the grapevine.

Still don't believe the idea that they're faking mechanical faults, it could just be that some of the 8 carriages I heard were restored to service this week after being out for a while are just having some issues after being idle for so long.

Also, if a driver isn't driving a train that they are scheduled to, it doesn't necessarily mean it's because they are sick or absent, there could be other reasons for it.

Jamie2k9 · 13-09-2018 11:43pm

devnull wrote: »

I believe there is also a split in the driver grade for DART services, apparently some are on one set of terms and conditions and one may be on another set, not sure if that's true or not but something I've heard on the grapevine.

Still don't believe the idea that they're faking mechanical faults, it could just be that some of the 8 carriages I heard were restored to service this week after being out for a while are just having some issues after being idle for so long.

Not sure about separate conditions but they are driving more this week than they have been used to, probally never doing as much driving since they started....

As for sets returning to service, they have had 3-4 months to get them ready....

ixoy · 13-09-2018 11:44pm

Out of curiosity, at peak times - say between 7 and 9 - has anyone determined how many 6/8 carriage DARTs the southside is getting versus the northside? Obviously, they do traverse the city but for the core times..
It's odd that we seem to be hearing very little on the southside difficulties when they must be suffering capacity problems too. I mean were the commuter trains really absorbing that many passengers?

devnull · 13-09-2018 11:46pm

ixoy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, at peak times - say between 7 and 9 - has anyone determined how many 6/8 carriage DARTs the southside is getting versus the northside? Obviously, they do traverse the city but for the core times..
It's odd that we seem to be hearing very little on the southside difficulties when they must be suffering capacity problems too. I mean were the commuter trains really absorbing that many passengers?

Have to remember that the DART splits on the northside to every 20 minutes on each branch whilst the Southside is 10 minutes all of the time which contributes to the issues we're seeing and the uneven load balancing.

ixoy · 13-09-2018 11:50pm

devnull wrote: »

Have to remember that the DART splits on the northside to every 20 minutes on each branch whilst the Southside is 10 minutes all of the time which contributes to the issues we're seeing and the uneven load balancing.

So is the northside serving more passengers overall? I mean all the trains are busy, including those from the Howth spur which is traditionally the quieter one.

It just seems odd that it's gotten so poor with the removal of the commuter ones as I never got the impression that many people from the Malahide branch pushed on to them. Anyone know how many came on at these stations? I lived in Portmarnock for a couple of years and didn't get a commuter train often.

highdef · 13-09-2018 11:51pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure about separate conditions but they are driving more this week than they have been used to, probally never doing as much driving since they started....

Can you elaborate as to what "restored hours" are? You reedited your post and the part you mentioned about restored hours disappeared. I would have imagined that a DART drivers day would consist of clocking on, followed by a check of the train he/she was going to drive, then drive the train for a set period of time. Then followed by a "lunch" break. Then checks on the next train to drive, followed by driving of that train for a set period of time and the clocking off for the day.....or something to that effect.

Still trying to figure out where "restored hours" fit in to the drivers day and also what "restored hours" actually means???

Jamie2k9 · 14-09-2018 12:01am

highdef wrote: »

Can you elaborate as to what "restored hours" are? You reedited your post and the part you mentioned about restored hours disappeared. I would have imagined that a DART drivers day would consist of clocking on, followed by a check of the train he/she was going to drive, then drive the train for a set period of time. Then followed by a "lunch" break. Then checks on the next train to drive, followed by driving of that train for a set period of time and the clocking off for the day.....or something to that effect.

Still trying to figure out where "restored hours" fit in to the drivers day and also what "restored hours" actually means???

There weekly max workable hours are 48 now but they want to reduce that to 39. Most don't drive anywhere near those 48 or 39 anyway. The new DART schedule means drivers are driving more hours within a week then there were with the old timetable and that's what they are not happy about. So for example they could be on shift for 30 hours over a week and driving for 25 before they would be working the same 30 hours but driving less than 25 etc.

Now I don't think the overall total hours workable have changed from 48 to 39 as of yet.

highdef · 14-09-2018 12:08am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There weekly max workable hours are 48 now but they want to reduce that to 39. Most don't drive anywhere near those 48 or 39 anyway. The new DART schedule means drivers are driving more hours within a week then there were with the old timetable and that's what they are not happy about. So for example they could be on shift for 30 hours over a week and driving for 25 before they would be working the same 30 hours but driving less than 25 etc.

Now I don't think the overall total hours workable have changed from 48 to 39 as of yet.

I always reckoned that the drivers grievances were overly exaggerated and what you've said kinda proves that point. I'm all for employees having legitimate grievances but the DART drivers have really been taking things to extremes over the years and are seriously risking losing their game of brinkmanship.

Decuc500 · 14-09-2018 12:18am

ixoy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, at peak times - say between 7 and 9 - has anyone determined how many 6/8 carriage DARTs the southside is getting versus the northside? Obviously, they do traverse the city but for the core times..
It's odd that we seem to be hearing very little on the southside difficulties when they must be suffering capacity problems too. I mean were the commuter trains really absorbing that many passengers?

There were grumblings on twitter this evening about 2 short overcrowded darts serving the northside around 5 o'clock while a 6 and 8 car set were carrying very few passengers southbound.

When my 4 car morning dart that was at crush capacity after the Killester debacle got to Pearse this morning a longer dart arrived from the southside that had lots of room on it before anybody got off.

So if you ask me (putting my northside bias aside) I would say that the available sets are being managed very poorly.

ixoy · 14-09-2018 12:30am

Decuc500 wrote: »

There were grumblings on twitter this evening about 2 short overcrowded darts serving the northside around 5 o'clock while a 6 and 8 car set were carrying very few passengers southbound.

When my 4 car morning dart that was at crush capacity after the Killester debacle got to Pearse this morning a longer dart arrived from the southside that had lots of room on it before anybody got off.

So if you ask me (putting my northside bias aside) I would say that the available sets are being managed very poorly.

This doesn't surprise me. The quietness about Southside issues is kind of telling, much like anything from Irish Rail itself.

FWIW, I experienced the joy of getting on at Killester. I was kind of lucky that I got on the (very crowded) platform and the doors pulled up right in front of me. Only three of us got on through those doors. Given some people missed four trains in a row, they need to re-prioritise. Trains have not run before but never with such a knock on effect.

Colonel Claptrap · 14-09-2018 7:02am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Find it hard to believe that all these "mechanical faults" are true.

Anecdotally I heard that engineers/mechanics purposely take their time servicing/repairing DART units towards the end of their shift. This ensures the next guy's shift has too much work to do resulting in OT. That guy then returns the favour ensuring there's plenty of OT to go around and DARTs are not ready to go back into service at the expected time.

Heard this from the son of a mechanic so take it with a pinch of salt.

Colonel Claptrap · 14-09-2018 7:07am

ixoy wrote: »

I mean were the commuter trains really absorbing that many passengers?

At peak times most people would be heading to the city centre from these stations. The commuter train was almost always the preferred option as it got there quicker and often had very little overcrowding.

I never seen a person faint on a commuter train. DART however, is a different story altogetjer!

Working class heroes · 14-09-2018 7:28am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Anecdotally I heard that engineers/mechanics purposely take their time servicing/repairing DART units towards the end of their shift. This ensures the next guy's shift has too much work to do resulting in OT. That guy then returns the favour ensuring there's plenty of OT to go around and DARTs are not ready to go back into service at the expected time.

Heard this from the son of a mechanic so take it with a pinch of salt.

On a bar stool was he?

devnull · 14-09-2018 7:35am

ixoy wrote: »

This doesn't surprise me. The quietness about Southside issues is kind of telling, much like anything from Irish Rail itself.

FWIW, I experienced the joy of getting on at Killester. I was kind of lucky that I got on the (very crowded) platform and the doors pulled up right in front of me. Only three of us got on through those doors. Given some people missed four trains in a row, they need to re-prioritise. Trains have not run before but never with such a knock on effect.

Also working out where the entrances are to the busiest few stations, and then standing at your station in the opposite end of the train, will help you get a seat, I can't believe how many people don't recognise this.

For example, if you're waiting at Connolly for a Northbound train the very best place to wait is the end nearest the stairway at the back of the train (Yes, I know it sounds stupid because there will be more people waiting there) since at Pearse and Tara Street people are generally lazy and get on nearest the front of the train, because that end is closest to the entrances.

Doesn't work so well after Connolly on Northbound mind since Connolly entrance is near rear of train, which balances out Pearse and Tara being at the front. But if you get on at Connolly at the rear before the scrum of others at Connolly do, you'll be rewarded

ParkRunner · 14-09-2018 7:38am

The northern commuter trains are naturally quieter as a result of the changes but take a few minutes longer now than before. Some commuter trains take the same time to get from Malahide to Connolly as a DART (roughly 25 mins) despite having no stops

Rashers72 · 14-09-2018 7:38am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I never seen a person faint on a commuter train.

Although rare, it does happen. They were mostly passengers who got on at shared DART stations who had to stand. And to be fair overcrowding at the times of the incidents was not a contributing factor IMO.

L1011 · 14-09-2018 7:40am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

.

I never seen a person faint on a commuter train. DART however, is a different story altogetjer!

I've had to assist a fainter on an intercity service - 22k vestibules are not sufficiently cooled. Not just a DART thing

thomasj · 14-09-2018 7:49am

M3 parkway services have taken a hit this morning , with the 7:10 and 7:42 not going beyond Clonsilla

The J Stands for Jay · 14-09-2018 7:50am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Irish rail spent a year of no rail service on weekends to lengthen platforms for 8 car darts and then didn't buy enough carriages.
Genuises.

That glorious summer where they closed the southbound line, and all the kids who usually drank on Bray beach went to Howth and Portmarnock instead...

Rashers72 · 14-09-2018 7:53am

ParkRunner wrote: »

The northern commuter trains are naturally quieter as a result of the changes but take a few minutes longer now than before. Some commuter trains take the same time to get from Malahide to Connolly as a DART (roughly 25 mins) despite having no stops

A few minutes longer might be an underestimate. Weekend journeys to Pearse now up to 40% longer due to removal of the 2 main city stations that customers want to go to. Long wait times for connecting DARTS (up to 15 mins) will push customers into their cars, when combined expensive off peak fares. Better connections or reinstatement of the 2 main stations should be corrected in any updated timetable in coming weeks.
Finally would love to hear the latest mph of commuter trains in morning peak from Malahide to Pearse. Maybe next week when all the teething issues r sorted. It is definitely longer, but just feels very very slow.

ParkRunner · 14-09-2018 8:07am

Rashers72 wrote: »

A few minutes longer might be an underestimate. Weekend journeys to Pearse now up to 40% longer due to removal of the 2 main city stations that customers want to go to. Long wait times for connecting DARTS (up to 15 mins) will push customers into their cars, when combined expensive off peak fares. Better connections or reinstatement of the 2 main stations should be corrected in any updated timetable in coming weeks.
Finally would love to hear the latest mph of commuter trains in morning peak from Malahide to Pearse. Maybe next week when all the teething issues r sorted. It is definitely longer, but just feels very very slow.

didn’t know about the weekend central stations being dropped. The slow trains seem to be going about on average 50km, 30miles per hour based on the timetable time and distance

Ohmeha · 14-09-2018 8:18am

Southbound dart delayed again at howth junction by late arrival of Drogheda commuter train which did not have many people standing

And Irish rail say commuter trains not stopping at portmarnock or clongriffin is to improve punctuality of the commuter trains? Which are now regularly delayed, in turn delaying howth darts and now shoving commuters from portmanrock and clongriffin onto shortened less regular malahide darts

devnull · 14-09-2018 8:23am

Ohmeha wrote: »

Southbound dart delayed again at howth junction by late arrival of Drogheda commuter train which did not have many people standing

And Irish rail say commuter trains not stopping at portmarnock or clongriffin is to improve punctuality of the commuter trains? Which are now regularly delayed, in turn delaying howth darts and now shoving commuters from portmanrock and clongriffin onto shortened less regular malahide darts

Malahide DARTS are now every 20 minutes in the morning not every 30 and you will find while commuter trains stopped at Portmarnock, few did at Clongriffin.

Deviso · 14-09-2018 8:25am

Much much better this morning. I'm on the 8:16 from Clongriffin and by Harmonstown there is loads of room.

Conchir · 14-09-2018 8:50am

The 8:41 from Howth this morning hasn’t been pulling all the way to the front of the platforms, so if nothing else the bunching of people into the last carriage might be alleviated slightly.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-09-2018 9:00am

marieholmfan wrote: »

They have a comparatively short period of an uncomfortable journey. Resources are finite. All we learn from Twitter is that one person is shockingly narcissistic and entitled.

She’s entitled for wanting to get on a train?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-09-2018 9:01am

Conchir wrote: »

The 8:41 from Howth this morning hasn’t been pulling all the way to the front of the platforms, so if nothing else the bunching of people into the last carriage might be alleviated slightly.

Now it’s the first carriage.

thomasj · 14-09-2018 9:35am

Unmitigated disaster on the Maynooth line this morning. M3 trains cancelled or cut short to Clonsilla, intercity trains running Maynooth commuter services and the usual morning train to bray held until the late Sligo inbound train finally passed.

People had 2 or 3 trains before they could actually get on.

Skerries · 14-09-2018 9:46am

it's going back to the old days of a few years ago when at rush hour we had 4 carriage darts pulling into Tara st going northside and people were jamming on while on the other platform they had 6 carriage darts that were half empty
after much complaining they eventually sorted it but it did take months

devnull · 14-09-2018 10:06am

Skerries wrote: »

it's going back to the old days of a few years ago when at rush hour we had 4 carriage darts pulling into Tara st going northside and people were jamming on while on the other platform they had 6 carriage darts that were half empty
after much complaining they eventually sorted it but it did take months

You do realise that a train that does one peak journey one way, will also do another peak journey the other way on it's return trip? That is why you see what you see, think about the journey the 6 car train does before and/or after the journey that it's half empty for.

Sam Russell · 14-09-2018 10:13am

devnull wrote: »

You do realise that a train that does one peak journey one way, will also do another peak journey the other way on it's return trip? That is why you see what you see, think about the journey the 6 car train does before and/or after the journey that it's half empty for.

IR could join and split trains - either at the turn around or on the fly. They do this on other railways but not here. 'Announcement - Front four coaches going to Howth, last four going to Malahide - split occurs at Killester'

They could also keep Howth as a 30 minute service, and have four trains serving Malahide per hour.

Decuc500 · 14-09-2018 10:15am

Skerries wrote: »

it's going back to the old days of a few years ago when at rush hour we had 4 carriage darts pulling into Tara st going northside and people were jamming on while on the other platform they had 6 carriage darts that were half empty
after much complaining they eventually sorted it but it did take months

Yeah that's very annoying. You'd think a 20 minute gap to Northside destinations would mean longer trains for the Northside but that's not the case.

On the plus side if you're getting a dart around 7:30 or 8:00 Northside in the evening they'll all be the long trains from Southside rush hour!
Not much benefit to north bound rush hour commuters though.

Phil.x · 14-09-2018 10:22am

thomasj wrote: »

Unmitigated disaster on the Maynooth line this morning. M3 trains cancelled or cut short to Clonsilla, intercity trains running Maynooth commuter services and the usual morning train to bray held until the late Sligo inbound train finally passed.

People had 2 or 3 trains before they could actually get on.

How is the maynooth line for seats at clonsilla and how many carriages

kingshankly · 14-09-2018 10:23am

Sam Russell wrote: »

IR could join and split trains - either at the turn around or on the fly. They do this on other railways but not here. 'Announcement - Front four coaches going to Howth, last four going to Malahide - split occurs at Killester'

They could also keep Howth as a 30 minute service, and have four trains serving Malahide per hour.

Splitting and coupling up trains during service makes no sense
First thing you need to get all passengers of train to split or add to a train then
Then you will need to shunt trains on top of each other which takes time
Then your hoping that every time you split a train or couple up that it works every time(which it doesn’t) then you could end up blocking the whole line

Deviso · 14-09-2018 10:37am

One benefit of finishing work at 6 is always having a comfortable train journey home. I get a seat usually from Tara Street North bound.

thomasj · 14-09-2018 11:40am

Maynooth line this morning

https://twitter.com/soh1989/status/1040501340592656385?s=09

LeinsterDub · 14-09-2018 11:50am

kingshankly wrote: »

Splitting and coupling up trains during service makes no sense
First thing you need to get all passengers of train to split or add to a train then
Then you will need to shunt trains on top of each other which takes time
Then your hoping that every time you split a train or couple up that it works every time(which it doesn’t) then you could end up blocking the whole line

Seems to work seamlessly in England. Why would you need to get passengers off ? Why would you be shunting Darts? Why would the Dart not split and end up blocking the line . It got there under it's own power

schemingbohemia · 14-09-2018 11:58am

Was amazed at how easy it was to get a seat on the 1732 Dart from Pearse southbound last night, don't normally get Dart home but last time I got that one it was absolutely jammed.

loyatemu · 14-09-2018 12:02pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Was amazed at how easy it was to get a seat on the 1732 Dart from Pearse southbound last night, don't normally get Dart home but last time I got that one it was absolutely jammed.

the Wexford train that follows that Dart has been quiet too - I've got a seat on it every evening this week. I can only guess the increased frequency to Bray has reduced the number of Bray passengers on the diesel service. Also there used to be 14 minutes between that Dart and the diesel, and now there's only 8 minutes.

schemingbohemia · 14-09-2018 12:04pm

Yeah, I'd say people are now, a few days in, getting more used to the change. Conversely the 0917 from Dalkey was a lot more busy than normal.

ThunbergsAreGo · 14-09-2018 12:06pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

A few minutes longer might be an underestimate. Weekend journeys to Pearse now up to 40% longer due to removal of the 2 main city stations that customers want to go to. Long wait times for connecting DARTS (up to 15 mins) will push customers into their cars, when combined expensive off peak fares. Better connections or reinstatement of the 2 main stations should be corrected in any updated timetable in coming weeks.
Finally would love to hear the latest mph of commuter trains in morning peak from Malahide to Pearse. Maybe next week when all the teething issues r sorted. It is definitely longer, but just feels very very slow.

I know it is only two stops, but what is rationale behind this?

Rail Users wanting to go from the Northside to Pearse must be a very common scenario, that they now need to swap transport for. Can it make that much of a difference for scheduling?

n97 mini · 14-09-2018 12:22pm

Phil.x wrote: »

How is the maynooth line for seats at clonsilla and how many carriages

Daughter works near Pearse and is using the train every morning. There are no seats at Leixlip Confey, never mind Clonsilla.

Going on twitter, DART users seem to be very vocal in comparison to Maynooth line users. Maybe that's because we've become accustomed to having a sub par service.

Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

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