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I need feminism because...

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  • 21-06-2013 1:03am
    #1
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭


    If you haven't seen it, there's been a lot of coverage of what happened when the ARU Feminist Society and CUSU Women’s Campaign asked students at Cambridge University why they need feminism:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ailbhemalone/18-reasons-we-still-need-feminism

    There was also an amazing article in The Guardian written by a 17 year old who started a feminist society in her school, and they decided to do their own version of the project - but were met with abuse and intimidation from their male peers, and then their school asked them to take their "I need feminism because" photos down, and issued a statement where they didn't condemn the boys' behaviour at all, but instead said the girls were compromising their safety...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/mortarboard/2013/jun/20/why-i-started-a-feminist-society

    So why do you need feminism?


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    #2
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...minist-society

    Does the society have a website?


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    #3
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭YumCha


    No, but you can view their photos contributing to the project here


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    #4
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    One of the placards reads " I need feminism because we all need an equally beautiful wife", is this a joke? Do feminists want all women to be considered equally attractive?


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    #5
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭fits


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    One of the placards reads " I need feminism because we all need an equally beautiful wife", is this a joke? Do feminists want all women to be considered equally attractive?

    speaking for every single feminist in the world - yes, yes we do.

    Wait... no we don't.


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    #6
    confusticated
    Registered Users Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭confusticated


    Where's that one? You sure it was "wife" and not "life"? I saw that...


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    #7
    jaja321
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭jaja321


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    One of the placards reads " I need feminism because we all need an equally beautiful wife", is this a joke? Do feminists want all women to be considered equally attractive?

    Its reads "I need feminism because we all need an equally beautiful life"


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    #8
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Love the articles, thanks for the link. I was talking to my 16 yr old, proud to be a feminist, daughter about this issue just a few days ago. It seems that the younger generation out there haven't just given up on feminism but are actually embarrassed by it. Its seen as a dirty word.

    For years we've had to deal with men telling us that feminists are men haters, you can kind of understand that attitude from men to an extent but when young girls are saying it its scary.

    It bothers me greatly that there is no young feminsit movement out there, what do these girls think is responsible for the fact they can go to college, use contraception etc. Do they think these rights were just handed to us on a plate or what? :confused:


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    #9
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    She seems to be blaming the boys for some of the girls eating disorders and accusing them of pressuring them into sex.
    These are very inflamatory statements which she does not present evidence for. Not really surprised about the backlash. If she was more constructive rather than making accusations she would probably not have these responses.


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    #10
    ASnailInMyNose
    Site Banned Posts: 4 ✭ASnailInMyNose


    I need feminism because i want true equality for men


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    #11
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    There are quite a few spoofs of this thing around. Some are funny. It's a bit too much women vs. men for my liking. Not the photos but tha articles. Surely they can't be surprised that there will be abuse or bullying on a FB page aimed at teenagers. Where were they last 20 years?


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    #12
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    Women were told it wasn't' needed, sure they had the equal pay act and laws against discrimination, turns out it takes more then that to change sexism.


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    #13
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,218 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Morag wrote: »
    Women were told it wasn't' needed, sure they had the equal pay act and laws against discrimination, turns out it takes more then that to change sexism.

    Men are legally discriminated against under family law.


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    #14
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Men are legally discriminated against under family law.

    Hopefully that will change. The government are looking at changing the law so fathers are automatic guardians of their children regardless of marital status which will help, the ending of the in camera rule will also help.

    Things don't change overnight but they do change. It something women have known for years, our rights didn't just get given to us, it took fighting and pressure and waiting, a lot of waiting. That's something men will have to get used to :)


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    #15
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭YumCha


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    She seems to be blaming the boys for some of the girls eating disorders and accusing them of pressuring them into sex.
    These are very inflamatory statements which she does not present evidence for. Not really surprised about the backlash. If she was more constructive rather than making accusations she would probably not have these responses.

    The preface to that is "pressures associated with our gender" - and she only mentions 'peers' in relation to them pressuring her schoolfriends into sexual acts.

    If the thing that alarms you the most about that statement is that some unidentified unknown "peers" are being falsely accused, then something is really really wrong here.
    meeeeh wrote: »
    Surely they can't be surprised that there will be abuse or bullying on a FB page aimed at teenagers. Where were they last 20 years?

    The photos were part of a Facebook group called "Who needs Feminism UK" which is not specifically teen focussed. And why should anyone, especially a group of 16/17/18 year old girls have to expect to be bullied?


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    #16
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,279 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Hopefully that will change. The government are looking at changing the law so fathers are automatic guardians of their children regardless of marital status which will help, the ending of the in camera rule will also help.

    Things don't change overnight but they do change. It something women have known for years, our rights didn't just get given to us, it took fighting and pressure and waiting, a lot of waiting. That's something men will have to get used to :)

    The ending of the in camera rule will be a disaster, I think it does a great job at protecting the young, in many cases had the in camera rule not being in place people would have been to embarrassed to bring cases


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    #17
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    ted1 wrote: »
    The ending of the in camera rule will be a disaster, I think it does a great job at protecting the young, in many cases had the in camera rule not being in place people would have been to embarrassed to bring cases

    quite the opposite actually
    the in-camera rule means that judges in family court have no scrutiny in their behaviour or judgements.

    We have quite a successful method of anonymity in criminal trials (like rape trials) .
    Yet the trial itself and the justice can be seen to be done.

    As somebody who has been through family court (and I won so I'm not bitter) some judges behaviour is outlandish and disgraceful.

    Ending the in-camera rule will shine a spotlight on the injustices inherent in the family court


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    #18
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    ted1 wrote: »
    The ending of the in camera rule will be a disaster, I think it does a great job at protecting the young, in many cases had the in camera rule not being in place people would have been to embarrassed to bring cases

    In camera was for a good reason and in theory its great but its not working in practice. There is no reason why the system can't still protect the vulnerable while allowing transparancy that is so badly needed in the family law courts which are a total shambles at the moment tbh.


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    #19
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Men are legally discriminated against under family law.

    Who created these law, do you think?


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    #20
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    to get it back to "I need feminism because".
    Just looking at the number of locked/ hijacked threads here at times tells me why I need feminism.
    “What’s the worst possible thing you can call a woman? Don’t hold back, now.
    You’re probably thinking of words like slut, whore, bitch, **** (I told you not to hold back!), skank.
    Okay, now, what are the worst things you can call a guy? Fag, girl, bitch, pussy. I’ve even heard the term “mangina.”
    Notice anything? The worst thing you can call a girl is a girl. The worst thing you can call a guy is a girl. Being a woman is the ultimate insult. Now tell me that’s not royally ****ed up.”
    — Jessica Valenti, Full Frontal Feminism: A Young Woman’s Guide to Why Feminism Matters

    Ok maybe thats being a bit provocative and saying what the heck to all of the what about the men stuff that seems to take over whenever feminism is mentioned here. The following quote I really like and think of as a good comment on a lot of discussions on feminism and makes a point I have been trying to make over and over but it does it more eloquently I think
    I think our generation of feminists have lost the idea of there being an oppressive structure (patriarchy) which moulds and controls the actions of individual women. So when we say “High heels are oppressive, they are a way of controlling women’s bodies, preventing us from being able to run and deforming our feet” a lot of women hear this as “Women who wear high heels are all stupid and not proper feminists. They are gullible stooges of patriarchy!” This is because Western women have been brought up in a culture that emphasises individualism and personal choices and ignores the coercive social and cultural structures and hierarchies within which those choices are made.
    The criticism is not of individual women and the question is not whether individual women do or don’t choose to wear high heels. The criticism is of the patriarchal system that coerces women into wearing high heels and that denies women a genuinely free choice as to whether or not to wear high heels.
    http://http://lionessclub.tumblr.com/post/53447907619/we-live-in-a-really-weird-era-of-feminism-in


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    #21
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It bothers me greatly that there is no young feminsit movement out there, what do these girls think is responsible for the fact they can go to college, use contraception etc. Do they think these rights were just handed to us on a plate or what? :confused:

    It's interesting that you see it as a bad thing if young women think that the movement is no longer needed. Surely the point of feminism is to make itself irrelevant? There's a difference too between your two points there — respecting the work done by women before them doesn't necessarily mean they see a need to continue it in the same vein.


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    #22
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    I don't need feminism. I need affordable childcare.


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    #23
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    clairefontaine wrote: »
    I don't need feminism. I need affordable childcare.

    Without feminism you wouldn't need afordable childcare as you would be the one minding said children.


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    #24
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Without feminism you wouldn't need afordable childcare as you would be the one minding said children.

    Without feminism having ever existed, not without feminism now.


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    #25
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Without feminism you wouldn't need afordable childcare as you would be the one minding said children.

    Nonsense. I am the one minding the children anyway. Women went into the workforce because of economically driven forces, not feminism.

    If it didn't make money for people it wouldn't have happened. Doubly the supply of employees and you get cheaper labour.

    Feminists and men's rights groups need to stop with the ideologies of apartheid and start thinking more collaboratively.


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    #26
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    eviltwin wrote: »
    In camera was for a good reason and in theory its great but its not working in practice. There is no reason why the system can't still protect the vulnerable while allowing transparancy that is so badly needed in the family law courts which are a total shambles at the moment tbh.

    If they abolish the in camera rule then they should move all rural family court cases to Dublin. Too small communities out there.


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    #27
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Feathers wrote: »
    It's interesting that you see it as a bad thing if young women think that the movement is no longer needed. Surely the point of feminism is to make itself irrelevant? There's a difference too between your two points there — respecting the work done by women before them doesn't necessarily mean they see a need to continue it in the same vein.

    That would be fine if there was no need for feminism but there still is and its a worry when the next generation either can't or won't see it.


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    #28
    Feathers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Feathers


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That would be fine if there was no need for feminism but there still is and its a worry when the next generation either can't or won't see it.

    There'll always be a need to address social imbalances, but that doesn't necessarily equate to the need for a feminist movement. Taking chlidcare as an example given — it could be presented as a "women's rights" issue. On the other hand, it could be seen as one affecting stay-at-home parents, gender neutrally.

    Moving away from separate, binary men's/women's rights positions is surely a good development.


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    #29
    YumCha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 519 ✭✭✭YumCha


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That would be fine if there was no need for feminism but there still is and its a worry when the next generation either can't or won't see it.

    I'm confused - are you saying that the girls in the Guardian article are part of this? Or that they're in the minority?


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    #30
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    YumCha wrote: »
    I'm confused - are you saying that the girls in the Guardian article are part of this? Or that they're in the minority?

    No I went slightly off topic and was talking about my observations of girls my daughter goes to school with who think feminism is redundant and embarassing.


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    #31
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Feathers wrote: »
    There'll always be a need to address social imbalances, but that doesn't necessarily equate to the need for a feminist movement. Taking chlidcare as an example given — it could be presented as a "women's rights" issue. On the other hand, it could be seen as one affecting stay-at-home parents, gender neutrally.

    Moving away from separate, binary men's/women's rights positions is surely a good development.

    They need to start thinking in terms of family.


This discussion has been closed.
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