Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 4:29pm

eirebhoy wrote: »

It's dreadful stuff imo. I don't appreciate teams that play that way and most foreigners wouldn't appreciate our football if we're going to be playing like that at the world cup. As I said, at the moment I don't really care how we play as long as we get to the world cup. But once we get there our performances are more important than the result for me. I just feel strongly about it.

On the betting forums and football forums there are plenty of foreigners talking about the match last night and not very complimentary of Ireland. That's nothing to celebrate for me.

Cyprus coach:
"They didn't play organised football. All they did was try to hit long high balls at us. It was our worst performance, not just in the qualifiers, but for a long time"

Yeah, well it's a very similar attitude to the one Premiership fans have towards the likes of Bolton and Stoke. For me, I really don't care how my teams play once their chosen style affords them the highest probability of winning. Sure, this has not been pretty. But **** me, it works! I couldn't care less how foreigners view our style, and honestly believe that we are maximizing our talent and potential in the qualification process to date.

I can appreciate that some people do have a genuine concern for the quality of football their teams play, and I can see where you're coming from. But I'd take these results, achieved in this manner. Than to be playing nice football and adrift of qualification.

eirebhoy · 06-09-2009 4:35pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I couldn't care less how foreigners view our style

But that to me is what success is all about. The appreciation. Bad football isn't appreciated.

I was happy with how we played in Georgia, Montenegro and Italy. We still got the results (a draw in Montenegro was good imo). The midfielders aren't as bad as they look in Trap's system. Whelan dominated a game against Sunderland just before this game and I'd put him in our top 3 performers in each of those 3 away games I named.

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 4:36pm

I would MUCH rather have foreigners hate us and we be chilling in South Africa next summer, than foreigners thinking we are great but oops we'll get em next time.

Kirby · 06-09-2009 4:46pm

Exactly. I don't agree with trapps selection. I don't agree with the policy towards Morrison, Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland. I don't agree with guys like Laim Miller who don't even have a club being in the squad instead of our promosing youngsters. I don't agree with Kilbane at left back. I don't agree with the midfield two. We don't consciously go for long ball like we did in the Charton era. That was a pre-planned tactic.

But its not this time. Whelan and Andrews simply arent good playmakers. They won't come recieve the ball from the defence. They won't link up with their forwards. Our players are being forced to play the long ball as they have few options. Everything is humped up to doyle, or played down a blind alley on the wing....because we have no class in the middle.

All that stuff is unacceptable. But it wont matter if we qualify. If we get to the world cup after missing the last 3 tournaments.... I'm willing to ignore all that. Ofcourse I would prefer a manager with a bit more ambition and footballing nouse..... but after staunton I am willing to settle for dogged defensive organisation. I want us to be at the World Cup and thats what ultimately matters.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 4:46pm

eirebhoy wrote: »

But that to me is what success is all about. The appreciation. Bad football isn't appreciated.

I was happy with how we played in Georgia, Montenegro and Italy. We still got the results (a draw in Montenegro was good imo). The midfielders aren't as bad as they look in Trap's system. Whelan dominated a game against Sunderland just before this game and I'd put him in our top 3 performers in each of those 3 away games I named.

Against Georgia and Montenagro we had Steven Reid. And against Italy we were playing against 10 men for most of the game. Those factors significantly altered what the most optimal tactical approach was.

I will agree that Whelan has been good for Stoke (and it is a big part of why he's starting that is frequently overlooked on this board) by times. But if you think about it, Stoke's overall tactical approach really isn't all that different to what we have been doing under Trapp. I'm not sure Whelan is capable of dictating the entire tone and tempo of a game from the middle of the park at that level (or that anyone eligible and fit to play for us is, including Andy Reid).

We played much better football when we got to the World Cup under McCarthy, but we won the central midfield battle every game Keane lined out in because he was the most effective footballer walking the earth at that time. We had such a good platform and solid possession to work with when he was on the pitch. And when he wasn't, Kinsella and Holland were a hell of a lot better than what we are working with now, and achieved parity in the Cameroon, Germany and Spain games.

Now, addressing your first point, that train of thought screams 'moral victory'. I'm quite sure Roy Keane didn't give a **** what Figo, Overmars et al thought about his team's style when he walked off Landsdowne in June and September 2001.

eirebhoy · 06-09-2009 4:57pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I will agree that Whelan has been good for Stoke (and it is a big part of why he's starting that is frequently overlooked on this board) by times. But if you think about it, Stoke's overall tactical approach really isn't all that different to what we have been doing under Trapp. I'm not sure Whelan is capable of dictating the entire tone and tempo of a game from the middle of the park at that level (or that anyone eligible and fit to play for us is, including Andy Reid).

I think Reid can and has done for Ireland and many times in the premiership. I think Reid in the team for Hunt/McGeady, a bit of a change of system allowing Reid to be a 3rd midfielder, would make a huge difference. We could have the ball on the ground and playing which gets the best out of Whelan as has been shown with his best performances. And Duff, Keane and Doyle would love it too.

We're getting results but tbh we've hardly been the better team in some of the games so luck has been played it's part.

If we only had tall, athletic grafters available to us I could undertstand and would back up the tactics.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 5:10pm

eirebhoy wrote: »

I think Reid can and has done for Ireland and many times in the premiership. I think Reid in the team for Hunt/McGeady, a bit of a change of system allowing Reid to be a 3rd midfielder, would make a huge difference. We could have the ball on the ground and playing which gets the best out of Whelan as has been shown with his best performances. And Duff, Keane and Doyle would love it too.

We're getting results but tbh we've hardly been the better team in some of the games so luck has been played it's part.

If we only had tall, athletic grafters available to us I could undertstand and would back up the tactics.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I think dropping one of Hunt / McGeady for Reid would be bad, given that some of our best stuff comes from the flanks on the break.

I will agree that luck has played its part, no doubt. However, getting the team in these games so that they become close enough for bounces either way to matter feels like progress in the aftermath of the Staunton regime.

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 5:33pm

Reid was exellent when we beat Denmark 4-0 in Copenhagen. He got the ball, moved it, linked up well and played some killer passes. After that game i was expecting him to continue being the focal point of our team.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 5:38pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Reid was exellent when we beat Denmark 4-0 in Copenhagen. He got the ball, moved it, linked up well and played some killer passes. After that game i was expecting him to continue being the focal point of our team.

Long time ago.

gosplan · 06-09-2009 5:42pm

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I really wish people would stop pinning their hopes on S Reid being available for the Italy game, more of a chance of Ireland being back in the centre.

Wouldn't say pinning our hopes on the guy but he's the best midfielder currently willing to play for us. He returned two weeks ago but picked up a slight hamstring strain and is expected to be fit again shortly.

He's actually not listed as injured any longer on physioroom.com and fantasy football have him down as 'doubtful' for the coming weekend.

But what about a bet?

I'll put 100 quid on Stephen Reid playing against Italy and you can put 100 quid on the 'better chance' of Ireland playing

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 5:48pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Long time ago.

It was August 22 2007. Just over 2 years ago.

And yet all i heard all week was "Ah jaysus, 5-2, bleedin terrible" and that was 3 years ago.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 5:51pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

It was August 22 2007. Just over 2 years ago.

And yet all i heard all week was "Ah jaysus, 5-2, bleedin terrible" and that was 3 years ago.

Not from me

Reid has had a 12 month stretch of poor club form since that game. And the fact that his finally getting into decent shape coincided with the arrival of a new manager at club level says something about his general character to me.

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 5:57pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not from me

Reid has had a 12 month stretch of poor club form since that game. And the fact that his finally getting into decent shape coincided with the arrival of a new manager at club level says something about his general character to me.

For the love of God, some people just don't listen. Reid has had an engine on him for two years now. He got in proper match shape when he left Spurs. I don't think he was poor last year. I would take him over Whelan and Andrews so fast it's not funny. Imagine the two Reid's instead of those two? It'd be so much better. Not any hope of that happening though.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 6:04pm

Tyranax wrote: »

For the love of God, some people just don't listen. Reid has had an engine on him for two years now. He got in proper match shape when he left Spurs. I don't think he was poor last year. I would take him over Whelan and Andrews so fast it's not funny. Imagine the two Reid's instead of those two? It'd be so much better. Not any hope of that happening though.

No, we did listen. We listened over and over during the past two seasons when people told us that Reid just had a funny body type, and was actually in great shape. And then he actually got himself fit this summer and finally looks the part.

And he has been unable to hold down a place in his team's starting 11 over the past 12 months under the charge of three different coaches. There is a reason for that, one easily forgotten when you see the odd highlight of him making a good pass or destroying a poor league one team in the Carling Cup.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 6:05pm

Ireland have achieved a decent level of success under Trapp. But we have been, in my opinion, very lucky more than once in this campaign.
Both home and away Cyprus outplayed us and created far more chances than us.
We have much better players than they do, playing at a much higher level.
It doesn't take great players to make space and pass the ball 5 or ten yards. The style of play we use is terrible. It's cowardly. Everyone looks afraid to get on the ball. Our only hope is to create chances from set plays.

We have limited players, everyone knows that. But even at that, our system makes no sense. We seem to be relying on lucky bounces and winning free kicks to get something from games.
I sincerely hope we qualify for the world cup, but i'm not excited by the prospect. Not like i was in 2002.

I don't care what people say - Trappatoni isn't getting the best out of this Irish team. He's getting a lot more than Staunton did, but he's not playing to their strengths, not picking the best players and not trying 100% to win games.

Nobody can defend Whelan and Andrews as a midfield duo. And no matter what anyone thinks of Andy Reid, he would be imo as effective as both of those two at sitting in the middle of the park doing f*ck all for 90 minutes. Only when he gets the ball he has some intelligence, vision and creativity. And i'm speaking as someone who recognises his limitations, doesn't believe he's the answer to all our prayers etc . . .
Similarly, Carsley is just as good as Whelan and Andrews on the ball, but twice the player either of them are at breaking up play and making tackles.

McGeady is a flawed, inconsistent performer. But picking Hunt ahead of him is crazy. The guy works hard, but he's a headless chicken, has no touch, can't retain possession.

Playing like we play and not playing Caleb Folan = bewildering.

I'm under no illusions about the quality of our players. But simple, tidy passing football is very possible even with average players - look at Fulham. Look at Swansea.
The idea of football is to score goals. Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Aiden McGeady, and Andy Reid are, in my humble opinion, our most creative players available. Play them all, play to their strengths.
I'm sick of people saying Andy Reid isn't good enough for Ireland. He's never let us down and he's SOMETHING DIFFERENT. He's way better than Andrews, Gibson, Whelan and Miller. They are all effectively one player. One poor player. Why not have options on the bench at least. Reid and Carsley are different options. It's ridiculous they are out of the picture.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 6:08pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, we did listen. We listened over and over during the past two seasons when people told us that Reid just had a funny body type, and was actually in great shape. And then he actually got himself fit this summer and finally looks the part.

And he has been unable to hold down a place in his team's starting 11 over the past 12 months under the charge of three different coaches. There is a reason for that, one easily forgotten when you see the odd highlight of him making a good pass or destroying a poor league one team in the Carling Cup.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Even when Reid was overweight he was still fit and well able to play in central midfield. I repeat myself:

he's as good as Whelan and Andrews at sitting in midfield and trying to get a grip of the game (ie: none of them are any good at it at all) and far superior to them when it comes to the creative side of the game.
Any time i've seen him play for Sunderland he's always done well.
He's never let Ireland down.

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 6:13pm

Yes Lucky Lloyd, and of course Sunderland played such sterling football with Reid out of the team eh? Their last two coaches before Bruce were Roy Keane, a one track, sergeant-major Souness clone, and Ricky Sbragia, a man who didn't even want to be manager. We'll see how often Bruce picks him. He'd be better than Lee Cattermole in the middle for a start. I'll stand by my point about his engine, belly or no. Chuck Liddell had a beer gut while he was one of the deadliest men on the planet, you don't need to have a rippling six-pack to be fit.

eoin99 · 06-09-2009 6:14pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Even when Reid was overweight he was still fit and well able to play in central midfield. I repeat myself:

he's as good as Whelan and Andrews at sitting in midfield and trying to get a grip of the game (ie: none of them are any good at it at all) and far superior to them when it comes to the creative side of the game.
Any time i've seen him play for Sunderland he's always done well.
He's never let Ireland down.

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

I couldn't agree more with this, Miller is going to offer nothing more than Gibson from the bench, having Reid there would at the very least give us more options on the bench to change a game if necessary. Is there any reason why Miller hasn't got a club at the moment, other than him being a pretty average player?? (genuine question)

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 6:15pm

eoin99 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with this, Miller is going to offer nothing more than Gibson from the bench, having Reid there would at the very least give us more options on the bench to change a game if necessary. Is there any reason why he hasn't got a club at the moment?

quite apart from the fact that he doesn't have a club.

kenco · 06-09-2009 6:15pm

Undoubtedly a fit Steve Reid would improve the team not only for the rest of the qualifiers but hopefully for the tournament itself should we make it.

I think we need Reid or even Carsley in that midfield for the Italy and Montenegro games. They were non existant last night (even Trap got that one).

Italy are not great and could be there for the taking on a cold day in Croke but only if we are controlling the game and frustrating them. This will not happen with the current midfield. Nothing personal to the two lads but as a combination it is not working and has to change.

Also I really, really hope Finnan is back too

noodler · 06-09-2009 6:17pm

Andy Reid has nothing too prove when it comes to his Irish performances, the fact he has't had a chance to play for Ireland since is pretty much down to Trap's stubborness.

The fact he is a sub at his club is a weak argument when you consider Gibson, Whelan, and Miller have been stood by without international histories anywhere near asimpressive as Reid's.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 6:18pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

Nope. I do not think Miller should be in the squad, but McCann, Carsley and Fahey would be better options to stick in there than Reid right now.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 6:21pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope. I do not think Miller should be in the squad, but McCann, Carsley and Fahey would be better options to stick in there than Reid right now.

Edit: Sorry misread your post i thought you said Miller should be in squad.
I would pick Fahey as well because i think he's the nearest available thing we have to Stephen Ireland.
Reid is experienced and has never let Ireland down. I think he's been treated disgracefully. He offers something nobody else does and is an option from the bench. Away to Montenegro the game was crying out for him

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 6:24pm

whatawaster wrote: »

Playing like we play and not playing Caleb Folan = bewildering.

I totally agree. If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Can Caleb Folan actually be beaten in the air? Makes me think, if we decided to include Rory Delap... Im pretty sure we would win every game 8-2.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2009 6:45pm

Whelan indeed did very well against Sunderland. (saw the match myself) The main difference between Stoke and Ireland though is Stoke have players built like brick sh!thouses all over the pitch. (Shawcross, Higginbotham, Faye, Fuller, Kitson, Beattie etc)

ctrl-alt-delete · 06-09-2009 6:48pm

gosplan wrote: »

Wouldn't say pinning our hopes on the guy but he's the best midfielder currently willing to play for us. He returned two weeks ago but picked up a slight hamstring strain and is expected to be fit again shortly.

He's actually not listed as injured any longer on physioroom.com and fantasy football have him down as 'doubtful' for the coming weekend.

But what about a bet?

I'll put 100 quid on Stephen Reid playing against Italy and you can put 100 quid on the 'better chance' of Ireland playing

Well i'll be honest and say i'd put my money on Reid playing ahead of what i suggested

It's just i'm a Blackburn fan and have gotten used to the idea of having him on the books and never having him available - it really is a shame he is so injury prone.

I do think it would be great to see him and Andrews in the centre for Blackburn which could be beneficial to Ireland (not stephen

).

It's just i don't think it will happen anytime soon, i just think when he does get back from this hamstring thing, his back or knee will give way again and have him out for another season.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 6:51pm

Tyranax wrote: »

Yes Lucky Lloyd, and of course Sunderland played such sterling football with Reid out of the team eh? Their last two coaches before Bruce were Roy Keane, a one track, sergeant-major Souness clone, and Ricky Sbragia, a man who didn't even want to be manager. We'll see how often Bruce picks him. He'd be better than Lee Cattermole in the middle for a start. I'll stand by my point about his engine, belly or no. Chuck Liddell had a beer gut while he was one of the deadliest men on the planet, you don't need to have a rippling six-pack to be fit.

Ah come on, Cattermole was great last year!

As for the last bit, the argument is undermined when the athlete himself goes out and loses the belly himself (as Reid did this summer). Either:

- he was genuinely fit with a weird shape;
- he has got genuinely fit after carving away the pounds and changing his shape;

it can't be both.

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 7:06pm

Andy Reid is a better central midfielder than Lee Cattermole. He can actually pass the ball, accurately and regularly over long distances.

He was genuinely fit before. He just had a belly. I'd say that he just got tired of his round aesthetic, and toned his stomach. But he's had an engine on him for a while now. He hasn't been just a ball spraying, can't run long porker since his early Spurs days.

Dave! · 06-09-2009 7:11pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I totally agree. If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Can Caleb Folan actually be beaten in the air? Makes me think, if we decided to include Rory Delap... Im pretty sure we would win every game 8-2.

I agree, Folan is actually ridiculously good in the air, he's rarely beaten to the header

ctrl-alt-delete · 06-09-2009 7:15pm

Tyranax wrote: »

Andy Reid is a better central midfielder than Lee Cattermole. He can actually pass the ball, accurately and regularly over long distances.

He was genuinely fit before. He just had a belly. I'd say that he just got tired of his round aesthetic, and toned his stomach. But he's had an engine on him for a while now. He hasn't been just a ball spraying, can't run long porker since his early Spurs days.

It really depends on what you want from your central midfielder though.

Bruce has started with a system like Trap has at Ireland, the two tough tackling, ball winning central midfielders. I have to admit i'd rather see Reid in the centre in front of one of them 2, but a lot of the Sunderland fans seem to like what they have seen so far. Cattermole and Cana have been revelations on the local radio phone in's.

I think Reid has to reinvent himself as a winger for Club to hold down a consistent starting place - from what i've seen and have heard around the ground i think the current 2 at club level will be staying there for the time being.

Even Richardson hasn't been played in the centre for Sunderland - even though he had a great pre-season, scoring quite a few goals. He is another who is not quite as effective when thrown on right or left wing.

I think Reid could easily displace Richardson or Malbranque at Sunderland, there won't be enough time to be involved in the remainder of the Irish qualifying campaign, but with more hard work, and regular 1st team football (added to his new physique) - at least he will be in the position to be asking the questions...

Up to now Trap has had reasons (which may not be the real reasons) to omit him from the Ireland set-up. As much as a disgrace as it is to have Miller there ahead of him, all he can do is do it at club level and bide his time.

GLaDOS · 06-09-2009 7:18pm

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Agree with this. Would be a shame though 'cause he would more than likely displace Doyle, who I really like as a footballer. But if we're going to play ugly football, we should play ugly footballers (not physically of course

)

DoireNod · 06-09-2009 7:18pm

Glad with the result, but worried about the performance.

On the bright side, maybe the Italians will underestimate us based on our last performance?

eirebhoy · 06-09-2009 7:26pm

DoireNod wrote: »

On the bright side, maybe the Italians will underestimate us based on our last performance?

Don't know we were putting in poor performances before totally outplaying them in Italy so they'll be wary. I think we'll get a draw against them. Montenegro will be a tough one.

DoireNod · 06-09-2009 7:58pm

eirebhoy wrote: »

Don't know we were putting in poor performances before totally outplaying them in Italy so they'll be wary. I think we'll get a draw against them. Montenegro will be a tough one.

Yeah, they might be wary, but this time they will probably have 11 wary men. A draw is very achievable, and although I'd love a win, I think we'd need some serious luck.

We should have hammered them in Bari.

dogpile · 06-09-2009 8:39pm

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 8:46pm

dogpile wrote: »

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

Excellent! Just what we would need after four unsuccessful campaigns under three different management teams is...more instability. :rolleyes:

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 8:51pm

That's a valid complaint Lucky Lloyd. That kind of inflexiblity could cost us badly.

CHD · 06-09-2009 8:57pm

People saying his contract shouldn't be renewed, You do realise we won't get a manager anywhere near as good as Trap. Someone like Aldridge would get it ffs. O'Leary is prob the only half decent manager we could attract. O'Brien ain't gona bankroll anyone else imo.

dogpile · 06-09-2009 8:57pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Excellent! Just what we would need after four unsuccessful campaigns under three different management teams is...more instability. :rolleyes:

International management is a relatively short career nowadays, the days of someone being in charge for as long as Charlton was for example are over.....give it to Brady or Tardelli if you don't want too much change

The Rooster · 06-09-2009 9:01pm

dogpile wrote: »

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

Not true.
He's tried Darron Gibson there, and when Steven Reid is fit he'll be tried there too.

Anyone who thinks Andy Reid should play centre midfield in international football knows a hellva lot less than Trap! It would be ludicrous. Unless you played 5 in midfield - but that would mean dropping one of Keane or Doyle - ludicrous also. Reid should be on the bench though, granted.

Andrews and Whelan are far from great, but they've been the best two available for most of Trap's reign - plus they are playing consistently at premiership level.

CHD · 06-09-2009 9:02pm

dogpile wrote: »

International management is a relatively short career nowadays, the days of someone being in charge for as long as Charlton was for example are over.....give it to Brady or Tardelli if you don't want too much change

Tardelli would be great, If Trap maybe retires (After renewal) and Tardelli goes out to do his own thing then just maybe....

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 9:03pm

Well then The Rooster, what happened the last time that we played Andy Reid in central midfield against Cyprus?

Hank Scorpio · 06-09-2009 9:21pm

Tyranax wrote: »

Well then The Rooster, what happened the last time that we played Andy Reid in central midfield against Cyprus?

edit'

Misread what you meant

Idbatterim · 06-09-2009 9:30pm

"If things were ´normal´ we would´ve beaten italy in bari(as we deserved to) and italy should´ve lost to cyprus(cyprus were all over italy) and italy beat georgia by 2 own goals." that comment was taken from youtube, following a video of the highlights of the match. There is talk ireland have been lucky through out the group, but when you look at things, the Italians have probably been more fortunate, we are no great shakes, but the Italians arent up to much either in all honesty. Its hardly like when the Dutch came to Dublin in 2001. You can but help think that had we a proper central midfield, that a first place finnish in the group would have almost been a formality!

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 9:36pm

Dunphy said during the first game's coverage on RTE about the group, that if we had conviction, chose the right personnell and did our jobs, that first was eminently possible. He's proven to have been right. As Idbatterim has just said, the size of the task in October isn't anywhere near the size that it was against the Dutch. Two wins against Bulgaria and we would be nearly sure of finishing top. Italy have had some outrageous luck themselves. This is a very, very ordinary group. All the more infuriating if we don't make it, because this group was winnable.

Idbatterim · 06-09-2009 9:40pm

if you take alook at this link from Fifa.com, there have been no run away games, bulgaria will take on cyprus away on october 10th, that game will be far from a formality with 2 of their best players back and maybe their keeper who was injured. Also their last game is against georgia, who lost to italy yesterday by 2 goals, boths OG's!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/group=250479/index.html

also as dunphy has said, the italian side currently is very poor, given thier normal pedigree!

surely a draw is the best result for us on wednesday?

dogpile · 06-09-2009 9:51pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

if you take alook at this link from Fifa.com, there have been no run away games, bulgaria will take on cyprus away on october 10th, that game will be far from a formality with 2 of their best players back and maybe their keeper who was injured. Also their last game is against georgia, who lost to italy yesterday by 2 goals, boths OG's!

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/matches/group=250479/index.html

also as dunphy has said, the italian side currently is very poor, given thier normal pedigree!

I'd pretty much write off Bulgaria at this stage, finishing top 2 is a formality(playoffs concern for another day)...but it's the manner in how we got there, expected so much from Trappatoni and for me he's a big let down...as an example from last night when Keane scored the winner I couldn't muster a reaction because I'd been so numbed by the previous 80mins, it can and should be so much better

romah · 06-09-2009 10:29pm

Good result ..last night ..but

I heard that a number of players have gone back to their clubs and wont be in Limerick this week

Richard Dunne
Shay Given
Robbie Keane
Stephen Hunt

What will the team for the friendly against South Africa be like..??

nollaig · 07-09-2009 12:25am

It does seem bizarre that Folan does not start when all they are going to do is hoof the ball up. Makes even less sense not to have Delap not on the squad. These contradictions are why people are frustrated with Trapatoni

rossie1977 · 07-09-2009 1:36am

Tyranax wrote: »

This is a very, very ordinary group. All the more infuriating if we don't make it, because this group was winnable.

it might be an ordinary group but there is no cannon fodder like many other groups (San Marino, Liechtenstein, Armenia, malta, Kazakhstan, Andorra)

winning the group was always going to mean having to win basically all your matches or at least beating italy twice (which is a tough ask in any campaign), italy have only dropped 4 points sofar and 2 of those were against ireland, just to sum up how poorly they are playing

its like the premiership last year, utd were playing meh, they still were winning every game 1-0 which means nobody could get near them

Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

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