Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 04:48PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Long time ago.

It was August 22 2007. Just over 2 years ago.

And yet all i heard all week was "Ah jaysus, 5-2, bleedin terrible" and that was 3 years ago.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 04:51PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

It was August 22 2007. Just over 2 years ago.

And yet all i heard all week was "Ah jaysus, 5-2, bleedin terrible" and that was 3 years ago.

Not from me

Reid has had a 12 month stretch of poor club form since that game. And the fact that his finally getting into decent shape coincided with the arrival of a new manager at club level says something about his general character to me.

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 04:57PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not from me

Reid has had a 12 month stretch of poor club form since that game. And the fact that his finally getting into decent shape coincided with the arrival of a new manager at club level says something about his general character to me.

For the love of God, some people just don't listen. Reid has had an engine on him for two years now. He got in proper match shape when he left Spurs. I don't think he was poor last year. I would take him over Whelan and Andrews so fast it's not funny. Imagine the two Reid's instead of those two? It'd be so much better. Not any hope of that happening though.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 05:04PM

Tyranax wrote: »

For the love of God, some people just don't listen. Reid has had an engine on him for two years now. He got in proper match shape when he left Spurs. I don't think he was poor last year. I would take him over Whelan and Andrews so fast it's not funny. Imagine the two Reid's instead of those two? It'd be so much better. Not any hope of that happening though.

No, we did listen. We listened over and over during the past two seasons when people told us that Reid just had a funny body type, and was actually in great shape. And then he actually got himself fit this summer and finally looks the part.

And he has been unable to hold down a place in his team's starting 11 over the past 12 months under the charge of three different coaches. There is a reason for that, one easily forgotten when you see the odd highlight of him making a good pass or destroying a poor league one team in the Carling Cup.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 05:05PM

Ireland have achieved a decent level of success under Trapp. But we have been, in my opinion, very lucky more than once in this campaign.
Both home and away Cyprus outplayed us and created far more chances than us.
We have much better players than they do, playing at a much higher level.
It doesn't take great players to make space and pass the ball 5 or ten yards. The style of play we use is terrible. It's cowardly. Everyone looks afraid to get on the ball. Our only hope is to create chances from set plays.

We have limited players, everyone knows that. But even at that, our system makes no sense. We seem to be relying on lucky bounces and winning free kicks to get something from games.
I sincerely hope we qualify for the world cup, but i'm not excited by the prospect. Not like i was in 2002.

I don't care what people say - Trappatoni isn't getting the best out of this Irish team. He's getting a lot more than Staunton did, but he's not playing to their strengths, not picking the best players and not trying 100% to win games.

Nobody can defend Whelan and Andrews as a midfield duo. And no matter what anyone thinks of Andy Reid, he would be imo as effective as both of those two at sitting in the middle of the park doing f*ck all for 90 minutes. Only when he gets the ball he has some intelligence, vision and creativity. And i'm speaking as someone who recognises his limitations, doesn't believe he's the answer to all our prayers etc . . .
Similarly, Carsley is just as good as Whelan and Andrews on the ball, but twice the player either of them are at breaking up play and making tackles.

McGeady is a flawed, inconsistent performer. But picking Hunt ahead of him is crazy. The guy works hard, but he's a headless chicken, has no touch, can't retain possession.

Playing like we play and not playing Caleb Folan = bewildering.

I'm under no illusions about the quality of our players. But simple, tidy passing football is very possible even with average players - look at Fulham. Look at Swansea.
The idea of football is to score goals. Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Aiden McGeady, and Andy Reid are, in my humble opinion, our most creative players available. Play them all, play to their strengths.
I'm sick of people saying Andy Reid isn't good enough for Ireland. He's never let us down and he's SOMETHING DIFFERENT. He's way better than Andrews, Gibson, Whelan and Miller. They are all effectively one player. One poor player. Why not have options on the bench at least. Reid and Carsley are different options. It's ridiculous they are out of the picture.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 05:08PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, we did listen. We listened over and over during the past two seasons when people told us that Reid just had a funny body type, and was actually in great shape. And then he actually got himself fit this summer and finally looks the part.

And he has been unable to hold down a place in his team's starting 11 over the past 12 months under the charge of three different coaches. There is a reason for that, one easily forgotten when you see the odd highlight of him making a good pass or destroying a poor league one team in the Carling Cup.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Even when Reid was overweight he was still fit and well able to play in central midfield. I repeat myself:

he's as good as Whelan and Andrews at sitting in midfield and trying to get a grip of the game (ie: none of them are any good at it at all) and far superior to them when it comes to the creative side of the game.
Any time i've seen him play for Sunderland he's always done well.
He's never let Ireland down.

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 05:13PM

Yes Lucky Lloyd, and of course Sunderland played such sterling football with Reid out of the team eh? Their last two coaches before Bruce were Roy Keane, a one track, sergeant-major Souness clone, and Ricky Sbragia, a man who didn't even want to be manager. We'll see how often Bruce picks him. He'd be better than Lee Cattermole in the middle for a start. I'll stand by my point about his engine, belly or no. Chuck Liddell had a beer gut while he was one of the deadliest men on the planet, you don't need to have a rippling six-pack to be fit.

eoin99 · 06-09-2009 05:14PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Even when Reid was overweight he was still fit and well able to play in central midfield. I repeat myself:

he's as good as Whelan and Andrews at sitting in midfield and trying to get a grip of the game (ie: none of them are any good at it at all) and far superior to them when it comes to the creative side of the game.
Any time i've seen him play for Sunderland he's always done well.
He's never let Ireland down.

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

I couldn't agree more with this, Miller is going to offer nothing more than Gibson from the bench, having Reid there would at the very least give us more options on the bench to change a game if necessary. Is there any reason why Miller hasn't got a club at the moment, other than him being a pretty average player?? (genuine question)

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 05:15PM

eoin99 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with this, Miller is going to offer nothing more than Gibson from the bench, having Reid there would at the very least give us more options on the bench to change a game if necessary. Is there any reason why he hasn't got a club at the moment?

quite apart from the fact that he doesn't have a club.

kenco · 06-09-2009 05:15PM

Undoubtedly a fit Steve Reid would improve the team not only for the rest of the qualifiers but hopefully for the tournament itself should we make it.

I think we need Reid or even Carsley in that midfield for the Italy and Montenegro games. They were non existant last night (even Trap got that one).

Italy are not great and could be there for the taking on a cold day in Croke but only if we are controlling the game and frustrating them. This will not happen with the current midfield. Nothing personal to the two lads but as a combination it is not working and has to change.

Also I really, really hope Finnan is back too

noodler · 06-09-2009 05:17PM

Andy Reid has nothing too prove when it comes to his Irish performances, the fact he has't had a chance to play for Ireland since is pretty much down to Trap's stubborness.

The fact he is a sub at his club is a weak argument when you consider Gibson, Whelan, and Miller have been stood by without international histories anywhere near asimpressive as Reid's.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 05:18PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Do you not think it's a joke that Liam Miller is picked ahead of him? I certainly do

Nope. I do not think Miller should be in the squad, but McCann, Carsley and Fahey would be better options to stick in there than Reid right now.

whatawaster · 06-09-2009 05:21PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope. I do not think Miller should be in the squad, but McCann, Carsley and Fahey would be better options to stick in there than Reid right now.

Edit: Sorry misread your post i thought you said Miller should be in squad.
I would pick Fahey as well because i think he's the nearest available thing we have to Stephen Ireland.
Reid is experienced and has never let Ireland down. I think he's been treated disgracefully. He offers something nobody else does and is an option from the bench. Away to Montenegro the game was crying out for him

Mikeyt086 · 06-09-2009 05:24PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Playing like we play and not playing Caleb Folan = bewildering.

I totally agree. If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Can Caleb Folan actually be beaten in the air? Makes me think, if we decided to include Rory Delap... Im pretty sure we would win every game 8-2.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2009 05:45PM

Whelan indeed did very well against Sunderland. (saw the match myself) The main difference between Stoke and Ireland though is Stoke have players built like brick sh!thouses all over the pitch. (Shawcross, Higginbotham, Faye, Fuller, Kitson, Beattie etc)

ctrl-alt-delete · 06-09-2009 05:48PM

gosplan wrote: »

Wouldn't say pinning our hopes on the guy but he's the best midfielder currently willing to play for us. He returned two weeks ago but picked up a slight hamstring strain and is expected to be fit again shortly.

He's actually not listed as injured any longer on physioroom.com and fantasy football have him down as 'doubtful' for the coming weekend.

But what about a bet?

I'll put 100 quid on Stephen Reid playing against Italy and you can put 100 quid on the 'better chance' of Ireland playing

Well i'll be honest and say i'd put my money on Reid playing ahead of what i suggested

It's just i'm a Blackburn fan and have gotten used to the idea of having him on the books and never having him available - it really is a shame he is so injury prone.

I do think it would be great to see him and Andrews in the centre for Blackburn which could be beneficial to Ireland (not stephen

).

It's just i don't think it will happen anytime soon, i just think when he does get back from this hamstring thing, his back or knee will give way again and have him out for another season.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 05:51PM

Tyranax wrote: »

Yes Lucky Lloyd, and of course Sunderland played such sterling football with Reid out of the team eh? Their last two coaches before Bruce were Roy Keane, a one track, sergeant-major Souness clone, and Ricky Sbragia, a man who didn't even want to be manager. We'll see how often Bruce picks him. He'd be better than Lee Cattermole in the middle for a start. I'll stand by my point about his engine, belly or no. Chuck Liddell had a beer gut while he was one of the deadliest men on the planet, you don't need to have a rippling six-pack to be fit.

Ah come on, Cattermole was great last year!

As for the last bit, the argument is undermined when the athlete himself goes out and loses the belly himself (as Reid did this summer). Either:

- he was genuinely fit with a weird shape;
- he has got genuinely fit after carving away the pounds and changing his shape;

it can't be both.

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 06:06PM

Andy Reid is a better central midfielder than Lee Cattermole. He can actually pass the ball, accurately and regularly over long distances.

He was genuinely fit before. He just had a belly. I'd say that he just got tired of his round aesthetic, and toned his stomach. But he's had an engine on him for a while now. He hasn't been just a ball spraying, can't run long porker since his early Spurs days.

Dave! · 06-09-2009 06:11PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I totally agree. If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Can Caleb Folan actually be beaten in the air? Makes me think, if we decided to include Rory Delap... Im pretty sure we would win every game 8-2.

I agree, Folan is actually ridiculously good in the air, he's rarely beaten to the header

ctrl-alt-delete · 06-09-2009 06:15PM

Tyranax wrote: »

Andy Reid is a better central midfielder than Lee Cattermole. He can actually pass the ball, accurately and regularly over long distances.

He was genuinely fit before. He just had a belly. I'd say that he just got tired of his round aesthetic, and toned his stomach. But he's had an engine on him for a while now. He hasn't been just a ball spraying, can't run long porker since his early Spurs days.

It really depends on what you want from your central midfielder though.

Bruce has started with a system like Trap has at Ireland, the two tough tackling, ball winning central midfielders. I have to admit i'd rather see Reid in the centre in front of one of them 2, but a lot of the Sunderland fans seem to like what they have seen so far. Cattermole and Cana have been revelations on the local radio phone in's.

I think Reid has to reinvent himself as a winger for Club to hold down a consistent starting place - from what i've seen and have heard around the ground i think the current 2 at club level will be staying there for the time being.

Even Richardson hasn't been played in the centre for Sunderland - even though he had a great pre-season, scoring quite a few goals. He is another who is not quite as effective when thrown on right or left wing.

I think Reid could easily displace Richardson or Malbranque at Sunderland, there won't be enough time to be involved in the remainder of the Irish qualifying campaign, but with more hard work, and regular 1st team football (added to his new physique) - at least he will be in the position to be asking the questions...

Up to now Trap has had reasons (which may not be the real reasons) to omit him from the Ireland set-up. As much as a disgrace as it is to have Miller there ahead of him, all he can do is do it at club level and bide his time.

GLaDOS · 06-09-2009 06:18PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

If we are going to punt it, GET CALEB ON FIRST!

Agree with this. Would be a shame though 'cause he would more than likely displace Doyle, who I really like as a footballer. But if we're going to play ugly football, we should play ugly footballers (not physically of course

)

DoireNod · 06-09-2009 06:18PM

Glad with the result, but worried about the performance.

On the bright side, maybe the Italians will underestimate us based on our last performance?

eirebhoy · 06-09-2009 06:26PM

DoireNod wrote: »

On the bright side, maybe the Italians will underestimate us based on our last performance?

Don't know we were putting in poor performances before totally outplaying them in Italy so they'll be wary. I think we'll get a draw against them. Montenegro will be a tough one.

DoireNod · 06-09-2009 06:58PM

eirebhoy wrote: »

Don't know we were putting in poor performances before totally outplaying them in Italy so they'll be wary. I think we'll get a draw against them. Montenegro will be a tough one.

Yeah, they might be wary, but this time they will probably have 11 wary men. A draw is very achievable, and although I'd love a win, I think we'd need some serious luck.

We should have hammered them in Bari.

dogpile · 06-09-2009 07:39PM

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2009 07:46PM

dogpile wrote: »

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

Excellent! Just what we would need after four unsuccessful campaigns under three different management teams is...more instability. :rolleyes:

Tyranax · 06-09-2009 07:51PM

That's a valid complaint Lucky Lloyd. That kind of inflexiblity could cost us badly.

CHD · 06-09-2009 07:57PM

People saying his contract shouldn't be renewed, You do realise we won't get a manager anywhere near as good as Trap. Someone like Aldridge would get it ffs. O'Leary is prob the only half decent manager we could attract. O'Brien ain't gona bankroll anyone else imo.

dogpile · 06-09-2009 07:57PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Excellent! Just what we would need after four unsuccessful campaigns under three different management teams is...more instability. :rolleyes:

International management is a relatively short career nowadays, the days of someone being in charge for as long as Charlton was for example are over.....give it to Brady or Tardelli if you don't want too much change

The Rooster · 06-09-2009 08:01PM

dogpile wrote: »

Trappatoni is totally committed to Whelan/Andrews as his central pairing and is totally inflexible and for this reason should we not qualify which is by no means a given I don't want to see his contract renewed

Not true.
He's tried Darron Gibson there, and when Steven Reid is fit he'll be tried there too.

Anyone who thinks Andy Reid should play centre midfield in international football knows a hellva lot less than Trap! It would be ludicrous. Unless you played 5 in midfield - but that would mean dropping one of Keane or Doyle - ludicrous also. Reid should be on the bench though, granted.

Andrews and Whelan are far from great, but they've been the best two available for most of Trap's reign - plus they are playing consistently at premiership level.

Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

Comments