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Masks

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    #3482
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Dropping of the 14 day self isolation? Why would anyone want that dropped? So good nothing was done about it.

    Masks will probably be made mandatory, they are well aware of how people aren't wearing masks and actually want them to. People will only wear them if it's mandatory.

    How the whole thing is enforced, I don't know but I hope people don't take it as an opportunity to be an asshole.

    Like i said it was a memo to cabinet to drop it from the start of phase 3 and the order was just extended so the memo gets kicked down the road. Anyway the self isolation is only a recommendation its not even mandatory.

    The point is a memo doesn't mean something comes into force. Few hurdles to jump first.

    Thats the thing no enforcement you wont see high compliance, yes probably more than now but not to the level some are looking for.


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    #3483
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,880 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    DevilsHaircut wrote: »
    It's precisely because the restrictions are being lifted that mask use becomes more important.

    Well put. Much better put than anything I've heard from the authorities on why they are important.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #3484
    NotMOL
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Dropping of the 14 day self isolation? Why would anyone want that dropped? So good nothing was done about it.

    Masks will probably be made mandatory, they are well aware of how people aren't wearing masks and actually want them to. People will only wear them if it's mandatory.

    How the whole thing is enforced, I don't know but I hope people don't take it as an opportunity to be an asshole.

    It will be difficult to enforce but I imagine the majority of people will abide especially when it is explained that wearing the mask will stop the spread of virus


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    #3485
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    GolfNut33 wrote: »
    This is some turn-around from the government. What's their reasoning for it?

    Wasn't long ago they basically scoffed at the idea of wearing a mask, giving a list of reasons not to.

    Call it an insurance bet by Leo. They are still scoffing, do not doubt that.

    They have shielded themselves from having to wear wet tissues with Prof Cormican's special Dail laws, giving themselves a luxurious 2 hour working day inside Dail chambers.

    Gone and taken over the National Concert Hall? for themelves, all because they have political allergies to wearing masks yet must be 2 meters apart.


  • Options
    #3486
    NotMOL
    Registered Users Posts: 113 ✭✭NotMOL


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Like i said it was a memo to cabinet to drop it from the start of phase 3 and the order was just extended so the memo gets kicked down the road. Anyway the self isolation is only a recommendation its not even mandatory.

    The point is a memo doesn't mean something comes into force. Few hurdles to jump first.

    Thats the thing no enforcement you wont see high compliance, yes probably more than now but not to the level some are looking for.

    Most people are not scumbags so they will wear a face covering if it is made mandatory, especially if people are told that wearing the mask helps prevent someone spreading it to a vulnerable person.

    Of course there will be the few rebels and scumbags who will try to break the rule but the vast majority of people are mature enough to understand.


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    #3487
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes: homemade
    Seanergy wrote: »
    When this was put to the HSE, they said the drop could be accounted for as the virus numbers in the community were also falling, she said, stating that the INMO disagrees with this assertion.

    Post #2836 disagree's with the HSE assertion, as I do.


    100%. Everything known from outbreaks of the past shows that masks even if not totally effective are far better than nothing at all!


  • Options
    #3488
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ..


  • Options
    #3489
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    NotMOL wrote: »
    Most people are not scumbags so they will wear a face covering if it is made mandatory, especially if people are told that wearing the mask helps prevent someone spreading it to a vulnerable person.

    Of course there will be the few rebels and scumbags who will try to break the rule but the vast majority of people are mature enough to understand.

    I wouldn't use the phrase scumbags, there'll be people who can't wear them for whatever reason, so let's not get into the branding of people who don't wear them as scumbags when there could be a genuine reason that we don't know of and that isn't any of our business.

    There'll be rebels yes I agree but let's not be fully judgemental when there could be a reason, which is where a general blanket of calling scumbags isn't in anyones interest.


  • Options
    #3490
    seamusk84
    Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭seamusk84


    They know it has to be done now before the city grinds to a halt with everyone avoiding or not being able to use public transport due to the 2 meters.

    Masks mandatory on public transport = Public transport can start operating at capacity again.

    Had to happen.


  • Options
    #3491
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    seamusk84 wrote: »
    They know it has to be done now before the city grinds to a halt with everyone avoiding or not being able to use public transport due to the 2 meters.

    Masks mandatory on public transport = Public transport can start operating at capacity again.

    Had to happen.

    Even at 1m and 50% capacity it still won't be near enough for Dublin bus in particular


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    #3492
    Seanergy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭Seanergy


    Yes: valved
    Not sure we are waiting till next week or the week after.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1275890761691811845


  • Options
    #3493
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    DevilsHaircut wrote: »
    It's precisely because the restrictions are being lifted that mask use becomes more important.
    Most people remain unconvinced by that in their actions, hence the likely mandatory requirement.


  • Options
    #3494
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    What exactly is the reality of the 20% or 50% capacity? I've seen very few buses in Dublin in the last week or so. Is it 20% of transport running with 20% of capacity?


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    #3495
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes: homemade
    Those that have a valid reason to not wear a mask should be obliged carry a Dr's letter giving them an exemption. This must be produced on request by any person in authority.


  • Options
    #3496
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Seanergy wrote: »
    Not sure we are waiting till next week or the week after.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1275890761691811845

    Clearly been a pretty big shift from NPHET here then with all of this


  • Options
    #3497
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    saabsaab wrote: »
    Those that have a valid reason to not wear a mask should be obliged carry a Dr's letter giving them an exemption. This must be produced on request by any person in authority.

    Exactly, like the people who had to go to work during the restrictions and had to have a letter from their employer.


  • Options
    #3498
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Those that have a valid reason to not wear a mask should be obliged carry a Dr's letter giving them an exemption. This must be produced on request by any person in authority.

    only a Garda would be allowed to ask you for that. They aren't going to be on buses to start with


  • Options
    #3499
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Exactly, like the people who had to go to work during the restrictions and had to have a letter from their employer.

    that's completely different, there were active Garda checkpoints and only a garda can ask you to produce something like that.

    You couldn't drive down the road without hitting a checkpoint. Enforcement of rules is going to be an issue here regardless. There isn't Garda manpower to do it


  • Options
    #3500
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes: homemade
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    only a Garda would be allowed to ask you for that. They aren't going to be on buses to start with


    Well, they were doing covid checkpoints until recently they can be redirected to public transport now.


  • Options
    #3501
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What exactly is the reality of the 20% or 50% capacity? I've seen very few buses in Dublin in the last week or so. Is it 20% of transport running with 20% of capacity?

    in terms of Dublin bus its full weekday service with 17 passengers on a double decker bus.


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    #3502
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    saabsaab wrote: »
    Well they were doing covid checkpoints until recently they can be redirected to public transport now.
    Gardai only go on buses when called by the driver. Common sense will have to prevail or that's all they'll be doing. Some people will not be wearing masks for whatever reason. Turning that into a battleground is not a good call.


  • Options
    #3503
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Well, they were doing covid checkpoints until recently they can be redirected to public transport now.

    They were running checkpoints on overtime, all other normal duty were basically non existent as people weren't moving around. The DMR went a full day without any reports of theft which hasn't happened before.

    Normal policing work is well and truly back underway now so the capacity that was there for checkpoints won't be there to police public transport.

    Its not a case of redirecting


  • Options
    #3504
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    in terms of Dublin bus its full weekday service with 17 passengers on a double decker bus.
    Fair enough. That's not what it looks like in numbers of buses.


  • Options
    #3505
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Fair enough. That's not what it looks like in numbers of buses.

    You've got a small bit of spare capacity with a reduction in the express services but not alot. Passed by Donnybrook this evening and there was a handful of buses in the yard.


  • Options
    #3506
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    that's completely different, there were active Garda checkpoints and only a garda can ask you to produce something like that.

    You couldn't drive down the road without hitting a checkpoint. Enforcement of rules is going to be an issue here regardless. There isn't Garda manpower to do it

    They can employ more bus and train inspectors. They seem to have the authority to ask for travel passes and ID.


  • Options
    #3507
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Can't be made mandatory without legislation. Who will enforce?
    Have the Gardai been granted more powers?
    It's not legal without framework and legislation.

    Leo can't click his fingers. This isn't Russia or China


  • Options
    #3508
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    They can employ more bus and train inspectors. They seem to have the authority to ask for travel passes and ID.

    I love how you just throw out ideas without thinking of any practicalities. Its just unreal.

    Ah sure just employ more people, you and I both know its not that simple is it ??


  • Options
    #3509
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No: other
    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    They can employ more bus and train inspectors. They seem to have the authority to ask for travel passes and ID.
    We'll need to wait to see the details of what this memo proposes, especially on the question of non-compliance.


  • Options
    #3510
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Yes: valved
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    I love how you just throw out ideas without thinking of any practicalities. Its just unreal.

    Ah sure just employ more people

    I don't care how they manage it or how it's enforced, it's for public health.


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    #3511
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    I don't care how they manage it or how it's enforced, it's for public health.

    Well then don't come out with statements on enforcement that you know aren't practical.

    Just employ more people, simple as that is your proposal, again practicalities.

    Then when challenged you revert to i dont care or how its enforced. Without enforcment you won't get the desired compliance its quite simple.

    If they're going to do it there needs to be an enforcement mechanism, gardai don't have the resources, unions without a doubt will put the foot down if its left to drivers.

    I'm not aruging for or against I'm thinking of the practicalities of enforcment which is going to be very difficult without a transport police force which we should have set up years ago but thats another story altogether


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