Budget 2020: VRT on used imports

WacoKid · 03-10-2019 1:48pm #1

The rhetoric from the Gov and Irish motors dealers seems to be the UK is dumping its 'unwanted imports' on us...and we must charge our own consumers to discourage this awful practice and stop it immediately for the good our children.

The cynic in me sees it more as a way of restricting the selection the Irish consumer has by cutting off the UK, thus driving us into the arms of car dealers in Ireland, where VRT is a greater take for the Gov. Win/win for everyone except the consumer as we will be forced to fork out for new cars when there is ample used selection out there that would more than do the job.

The price of cars in Ireland, along with their basic specification, means the Irish consumer is shopping abroad for a better product.

UK cars are ending up in Ireland because the Irish consumer wants to buy them, due to the better price and spec they offer...not because the UK has a strategy to use Ireland as a breakers yard!

gussieg · 03-10-2019 9:51pm

Exactly my thoughts...and still no further work in making alternatives any more cost effective for us. As for car insurance, mine is due for renewal in 2 weeks, I'd like to gamble and wait til after Brexit/no Brexit to renew, as at the moment only finding one half decent quote with a 10 year plus NCD , nopoints/penalties, crossed fingers, I would so love to run an electric vehicle, or at least one ten years younger, but so far I'm not going to beat myself up for the 1 litres failings. All good come to those who wait....?

Marcusm · 04-10-2019 11:46am

Taht’s All true; however, the shift to petrol in new car sales is not refelected in second hand imports. The proposal the Dept floated in July was a NOX tax based on mg/km using V5 data and/or highest applicable for Euro4/5/6 if not stated. Proposal was for upwards of €2k charge on a Euro4 diesel meaning pre 2011 registrations.

WacoKid · 04-10-2019 12:31pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Taht’s All true; however, the shift to petrol in new car sales is not refelected in second hand imports. The proposal the Dept floated in July was a NOX tax based on mg/km using V5 data and/or highest applicable for Euro4/5/6 if not stated. Proposal was for upwards of €2k charge on a Euro4 diesel meaning pre 2011 registrations.

Thanks Marcusm, to confirm any uplift in VRT on used imports from the UK is only for EURO4 (pre 2011) cars, or EURO5/6 mays also get hit, albeit at a lower rate?

Marcusm · 04-10-2019 6:16pm

WacoKid wrote: »

Thanks Marcusm, to confirm any uplift in VRT on used imports from the UK is only for EURO4 (pre 2011) cars, or EURO5/6 mays also get hit, albeit at a lower rate?

The papers included proposals that cars registered after a future date (whether new or secondhand imports) would attract a NOX element to VRT. That included sample calculations for Euro 4-6. Those papers were issued in July and the feedback to them will inform the announcements next week. I think it’s fair to assume that, if implemented, it will apply to all cars newly registered as to do otherwise would impinge on freedom of movement of goods, ie second hand imports could not be unfairly targeted.

Atlantic Dawn · 05-10-2019 11:34am

Without checking for dpf removals and measuring diesel emissions at NCT the whole clean air buzz is dead.

adunis · 05-10-2019 11:44am

It's all academic if they crash out it won't be remotely cost effective to import from outside the EU,no matter how low sterling goes.
Price,+shipping travel expenses etc,then vat on that then customs duty then vrt on top and then nox tax.

Atlantic Dawn · 05-10-2019 3:51pm

adunis wrote: »

It's all academic if they crash out it won't be remotely cost effective to import from outside the EU,no matter how low sterling goes.
Price,+shipping travel expenses etc,then vat on that then customs duty then vrt on top and then nox tax.

Don't think that's entirely true, there should still be plenty of cars worth importing in, if you look at the amount of hybrids and low sized petrols imported from Japan the last 5 years or so there's thousands coming in and they would be subject to the very same plus around a grand in shipping costs on top.

MrMusician18 · 05-10-2019 4:00pm

https://www.lobbying.ie/return/51078/society-of-the-irish-motor-industry

How good of SIMI to bring their environmental concerns to the Minister.:rolleyes:

Quite simply, a tax specifically on used imports is designed to hobble grey imports which are depressing the local Irish market (the way a single market is meant to actually work btw).

Old diesel · 06-10-2019 10:17am

The Irish car trade hasn't a problem with UK imports per se.

What it has a problem with is people going over to the UK and buying their car themselves.

That's costing the Irish trade money because it's harder to sell cars as less buyers in the market.

We know there isn't an inherent dislike of UK imports in the Irish trade because the Irish trade itself happily deals in UK imports itself when it suits.

Irish trade wants you to pay top dollar for an Audi A6 rather then save by buying in UK.

Brexit is obviously a barrier to UK imports in short term BUT if you are the motor trade planning your future.

Then you need to plan for no deal being possibly not a long term situation.

Hence cracking down on UK imports with some new non Brexit rules.

bazz26 · 06-10-2019 1:08pm

The Irish motor trade or SIMI want their bread buttered on both sides. They want to value your trade-in at UK prices but want to sell you their car at inflated Irish prices. They then whinge to and lobby the Government when the consumer doesn't play ball and seeks better value across the Irish Sea.

Its similar to the minimum alcohol pricing they are bringing in. Lobby groups like the Vintners' Federation complaining that supermarkets selling cheap booze are taking their members livelihoods yet they keep increasing the price of their drink regularly instead of reducing it to stay competitive. Government wilts and then introduces minimum pricing in the name of reducing binge drinking to appease them.

S.G.M. · 06-10-2019 1:43pm

Excuse my ignorance but how is southern cars have poorer spec? Are dealers here just not selling as good a car?

bazz26 · 06-10-2019 1:46pm

Better speced new cars attracted more tax here which raised the list price of them. In turn people went for the cheaper lower speced versions.

S.G.M. · 06-10-2019 1:51pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Better speced new cars attracted more tax here which raised the list price of them. In turn people went for the cheaper lower speced versions.

Ah ok. So would it be wise to look in the north for a new car or will the budget now mess that up coupled with Brexit.

bazz26 · 06-10-2019 1:56pm

Nobody knows for sure what way Brexit will work out regarding importing used cars. If they crash out without a deal then you could be stung for VAT as well as VRT on an imported used car which would make it more expensive to import.

If you are ready to buy then I'd tend to do it before the end of this month.

adunis · 06-10-2019 3:15pm

Vat vrt and customs duty

Eric Cartman · 06-10-2019 5:36pm

S.G.M. wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but how is southern cars have poorer spec? Are dealers here just not selling as good a car?

irish people in general dom't even check the options list , options cost more because of vrt and as a nation we're more concerned about the price and picking colours that 'hide the dirt/scratches' than the UK are.

finding an actual fully loaded (all options , all features, all switches filled) model of any car originally bought in ireland is a hard art.

a new e class mercedes before 2015 , heated seats were a 250-350 euro option depending on the year and a nice feature to have - I have never seen an original irish plated e class in that era with heated seats, only the imports.

S.G.M. · 06-10-2019 6:39pm

What if you buy in the North and then there is a problem with the car after Brexit at the end of the month? Would that cause issues?

WacoKid · 07-10-2019 1:23pm

Does anyone know will any changes to VRT come into effect straight away or on Jan 1st 2020?

Marcusm · 07-10-2019 7:52pm

WacoKid wrote: »

Does anyone know will any changes to VRT come into effect straight away or on Jan 1st 2020?

It was suggested by Do Finance that 6 months or more notification would be given to allow for repricing etc. I would not expect it to change until July or later.

astrofool · 07-10-2019 9:12pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

irish people in general dom't even check the options list , options cost more because of vrt and as a nation we're more concerned about the price and picking colours that 'hide the dirt/scratches' than the UK are.

finding an actual fully loaded (all options , all features, all switches filled) model of any car originally bought in ireland is a hard art.

a new e class mercedes before 2015 , heated seats were a 250-350 euro option depending on the year and a nice feature to have - I have never seen an original irish plated e class in that era with heated seats, only the imports.

Not just that, the dealers wouldn't buy in any stock with it, so if you wanted the car and that relatively simple option, it was a 6 month wait. There's some very odd spec Merc's around dealers if you take a look (BMW seem to be a bit more normal). The "Irish" brochures then spend 75% of the pages listing features that nobody in Ireland buys.

Leonard Hofstadter · 07-10-2019 9:19pm

astrofool wrote: »

Not just that, the dealers wouldn't buy in any stock with it, so if you wanted the car and that relatively simple option, it was a 6 month wait. There's some very odd spec Merc's around dealers if you take a look (BMW seem to be a bit more normal). The "Irish" brochures then spend 75% of the pages listing features that nobody in Ireland buys.

To be fair the spec on Irish cars is way better than it used to be but many buyers just go for the smallest possible engine still, it's rare enough you'd see a 5 series with a six cylinder engine for example, everyone will just buy the 520d instead.

colm_mcm · 07-10-2019 9:32pm

Meh, your standard 520d these days does 0-60 the same as an e39 530i, and has far better mid range ability.
The good old days of 6 cylinder 5 series in Ireland was really just 2.0s that could be outrun by a 1.8 Avensis.
The reality is that the 20d engine is all the engine most people could need. I’m not one bit surprised people aren’t stumping up the 13 grand of guaranteed depreciation to go from 520d to 530d.

WacoKid · 08-10-2019 1:38pm

"The 1% diesel surcharge introduced last year is being replaced with a nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions-based charge.
This surcharge will apply to all passenger cars registering for the first time in the State from 1 January 2020.

The charge will apply on a euro (€) per milligram/kilometre basis, with the rate increasing in line with the level of nitrogen oxide emitted. "

colm_mcm · 08-10-2019 2:15pm

WacoKid wrote: »

"The 1% diesel surcharge introduced last year is being replaced with a nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions-based charge.
This surcharge will apply to all passenger cars registering for the first time in the State from 1 January 2020.

The charge will apply on a euro (€) per milligram/kilometre basis, with the rate increasing in line with the level of nitrogen oxide emitted. "

That’s interesting for VW cars.

terrydel · 08-10-2019 2:20pm

WacoKid wrote: »

The rhetoric from the Gov and Irish motors dealers seems to be the UK is dumping its 'unwanted imports' on us...and we must charge our own consumers to discourage this awful practice and stop it immediately for the good our children.

The cynic in me sees it more as a way of restricting the selection the Irish consumer has by cutting off the UK, thus driving us into the arms of car dealers in Ireland, where VRT is a greater take for the Gov. Win/win for everyone except the consumer as we will be forced to fork out for new cars when there is ample used selection out there that would more than do the job.

The price of cars in Ireland, along with their basic specification, means the Irish consumer is shopping abroad for a better product.

UK cars are ending up in Ireland because the Irish consumer wants to buy them, due to the better price and spec they offer...not because the UK has a strategy to use Ireland as a breakers yard!

The like to preach about a common market except when it suits them.

terrydel · 08-10-2019 2:45pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

https://www.lobbying.ie/return/51078/society-of-the-irish-motor-industry

How good of SIMI to bring their environmental concerns to the Minister.:rolleyes:

Quite simply, a tax specifically on used imports is designed to hobble grey imports which are depressing the local Irish market (the way a single market is meant to actually work btw).

Love the way dealers market their simi membership as some kind of comfort blanket to the customer, when all it is is a lobbying group for their interests.

08-10-2019 3:29pm

terrydel wrote: »

The like to preach about a common market except when it suits them.

Big time. the whole VRT thing is a racket that should be banned.

A 2016 A6, S-Line, 2.0TDI Ultra Black Edition can be bought for £15,750 with 23,000 miles on it (or 37,000 KM). That's €17,526 by today's transferwise rates. Add in ferry (€150), Hotel (€100), fuel (€100) and you're up to €17,900 roughly.

The VRT on the above is:

Ignoring the fact that this is criminally high, for a second, it brings the total outlay, door-to-door to €22,876.

The cheapest 2.0 TDI S-Line black edition version on carzone currently is €420 cheaper, but it has 99,420 miles on the clock which is 4 times the mileage of the UK one.

And that's the cheapest.

If you look for one around the same mileage, the price jumps to €26,950.

TL;DR - That's a saving of just over €4,000. If VRT wasn't a factor, you'd be saving €9,000. That's like they're throwing in a second car as a bonus., FFS.

WacoKid · 08-10-2019 3:38pm

I did a quick comparison today on a 2018 BMW 530i M Sport with about 5,000 miles.

Including all travel, VRT etc., from the UK it was about €38-39k. The ones for sale on Carzone.ie are approx. €46-47k.

08-10-2019 3:43pm

How much of that is VRT.....€10,000+ ?

terrydel · 08-10-2019 3:46pm

WacoKid wrote: »

I did a quick comparison today on a 2018 BMW 530i M Sport with about 5,000 miles.

Including all travel, VRT etc., from the UK it was about €38-39k. The ones for sale on Carzone.ie are approx. €46-47k.

So basically the lobbyists have done their job, and the motor industry here has got a serious leg up. No offence to the motor industry, but its a tiny industry and really should be looking after itself, not being effectively subsidised by the state. If only homeless people had the same lobby group, they might do something about the housing crisis.

Budget 2020: VRT on used imports

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