Budget 2020: VRT on used imports

WacoKid

Deleted User wrote: »

How much of that is VRT.....€10,000+ ?

VRT was approx. €7,800.

WacoKid

terrydel wrote: »

So basically the lobbyists have done their job, and the motor industry here has got a serious leg up. No offence to the motor industry, but its a tiny industry and really should be looking after itself, not being effectively subsidised by the state. If only homeless people had the same lobby group, they might do something about the housing crisis.

As I read it the Gov have grasped the whole 'cleaner environment' nonsense (in the context of Co2 emitting Irish cars) and added a NOx tax to all cars registered after Jan 1st 2020.

This plays out as:

• The Gov get additional tax from all cars being registered (new, used)
• The gap between Irish and UK prices has been narrowed (by increasing second hand imports from the UK), making it less attractive to purchase a second hand car in UK, increasing the chance of the consumer paying over the odds in Ireland....or in other words, throwing SIMI a bone.

KCross

WacoKid wrote: »

As I read it the Gov have grasped the whole 'cleaner environment' nonsense (in the context of Co2 emitting Irish cars) and added a NOx tax to all cars registered after Jan 1st 2020.

This plays out as:

• The Gov get additional tax from all cars being registered (new, used)
• The gap between Irish and UK prices has been narrowed (by increasing second hand imports from the UK), making it less attractive to purchase a second hand car in UK, increasing the chance of the consumer paying over the odds in Ireland....or in other words, throwing SIMI a bone.

My interpretation is that they want you to buy a less polluting car. You can still go to the UK for your import just pick one that doesnt have a bad NOx figure and you should be fine.... which is the whole point of the tax (encourage you to think about emissions).

If you decide to go ahead and buy a high polluter anyway then you pays your money and be happy with your decision. Its only hundreds anyway, not thousands, so the savings should still be there (notwithstanding what Brexit could bring in relation to tarrifs).

WacoKid

KCross wrote: »

My interpretation is that they want you to buy a less polluting car. You can still go to the UK for your import just pick one that doesnt have a bad NOx figure and you should be fine.... which is the whole point of the tax (encourage you to think about emissions).

If you decide to go ahead and buy a high polluter anyway then you pays your money and be happy with your decision.

...but its ok to buy the same used high polluter off an Irish forecourt instead, which has not been hit with this tax?

If they were serious then they would have brought in the tax for any car being re-registered in Ireland also (i.e. changing ownership within Rep. of Ireland).

KCross

WacoKid wrote: »

...but its ok to buy the same used high polluter off an Irish forecourt instead, which has not been hit with this tax?

If they were serious then they would have brought in the tax for any car being re-registered in Ireland also (i.e. changing ownership within Rep. of Ireland).

I suppose you could do that but it would be very messy to collect the money in that case. They have the systems in place to collect VRT already.

Collecting a new tax on change of ownership would be a new overhead and I think the idea is to reduce the number of "new" bad polluters entering our roads. An existing car that is here already will disappear over time. If 100k used imports continue we need to ensure they are not the bad polluters.

Atlantic Dawn

Is there a NOx figure on current logbooks?

WacoKid

KCross wrote: »

...Collecting a new tax on change of ownership would be a new overhead.

Correct..but what they have done by not introducing this NOx across the board is increased the chances of the SIMI selling a car by removing some of the savings the Irish consumer could make by shopping in an 'open market'...or in other words trying to restrict competition from within the EU trade area.

KCross

WacoKid wrote: »

Correct..but what they have done by not introducing this NOx across the board is increased the chances of the SIMI selling a car by removing some of the savings the Irish consumer could make by shopping in an 'open market'...or in other words trying to restrict competition from within the EU trade area.

Indeed, but thats the underlying nature of VRT anyway. You can rail against the machine if you wish but that aint going away!

As I said, go to the UK and just pick one with low NOx and you'll still get your savings.

And its also not an entirely new tax since it replaces the 1% surcharge from last years budget.

WacoKid

KCross wrote: »

Indeed, but thats the underlying nature of VRT anyway. You can rail against the machine if you wish but that aint go away!

As I said, go to the UK and just pick one with low NOx and you'll still get your savings.

Hi KCross, not ranting at you directly. I'm suppose I'm just playing out the cynic voice in my head that is telling me our Gov are looking to restrict the Irish consumers choice when we are supposed to be in the European Union' free trade area.

Maybe it is a correct and appropriate tax and I just need to build a bridge

So for the Joe Soap purchasers out there that think Nox is something out of a Fast and Furious film, pretty much, if you want to import a car now, from the UK, you effectively have to just make sure it's compliant with London's Ultra Low Emmissions Zone area/charge?

celtic_oz

Is vrt still based on co2 but now includes a nox surcharge ? Or just nox now?

KCross

celtic_oz wrote: »

Is vrt still based on co2 but now includes a nox surcharge ? Or just nox now?

NOx on top of existing CO2 figure because the figures they are talking about applying to the NOx tax is in the hundreds, not thousands, so it wouldnt be enough to replace whats already in the existing VRT tax.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

So for the Joe Soap purchasers out there that think Nox is something out of a Fast and Furious film, pretty much, if you want to import a car now, from the UK, you effectively have to just make sure it's compliant with London's Ultra Low Emmissions Zone area/charge?

If you want to keep the NOx tax down then yes, but if you are buying a car for, say €20k+, the extra €500-€1000 on NOx tax isnt going to be a deal breaker if you are still saving over Irish prices or getting the spec you want.

Where its going to hurt most is someone bringing in an older, cheaper car as the NOx tax is emissions based not based on what the car is worth so it will disproportionally hit the older cars.... which is the point of the tax (stop us buying UK's old stock)

AMKC

I think its a good idea. They should have put a tax on importing cars from the UK to to make the car the same price or higher than the price you would pay here. Whats wrong with supporting your own country and paying the taxes to the country that you live in instead of trying to avoid that? If you are not happy with buying in your own country then go feck off and live in whatever country you are buying that car from. That's my opinion and what I think anyway.

bazz26

AMKC wrote: »

I think its a good idea. They should have put a tax on importing cars from the UK to to make the car the same price or higher than the price you would pay here. Whats wrong with supporting your own country and paying the taxes to the country that you live in instead of trying to avoid that? If you are not happy with buying in your own country then go feck off and live in whatever country you are buying that car from. That's my opinion and what I think anyway.

Lol, I guess you don't buy anything from abroad then, no amazon account or similar?

Motorists already pay plenty of tax here and the Government gets plenty of VRT from imports too so I really don't see where you get this notion that paying more tax by buying at home is supporting your own country unless I'm giving you too much credit and your just trolling? Tax collected that continues to be squandered on inefficient public services and disastrous overspending projects. How about the Government start supporting the taxpayer for once by encouraging them to spend their money at home instead of having to seek better value abroad where they are not taxed to death?

dodzy

AMKC wrote: »

I think its a good idea. They should have put a tax on importing cars from the UK to to make the car the same price or higher than the price you would pay here. Whats wrong with supporting your own country and paying the taxes to the country that you live in instead of trying to avoid that? If you are not happy with buying in your own country then go feck off and live in whatever country you are buying that car from. That's my opinion and what I think anyway.

Good morning troll

Old diesel

AMKC wrote: »

I think its a good idea. They should have put a tax on importing cars from the UK to to make the car the same price or higher than the price you would pay here. Whats wrong with supporting your own country and paying the taxes to the country that you live in instead of trying to avoid that? If you are not happy with buying in your own country then go feck off and live in whatever country you are buying that car from. That's my opinion and what I think anyway.

If you've got spare money to feed SIMI members without question then good for you...

Most people don't and just want to get the best car within a budget.

The local SIMI dealer will just add 1500 euro onto a pile of poo Corolla 1.4 diesel or Kia-ndai 1.7 diesel SUV.

This importing from Uk ultimately benefited all car buyers even those that stay at home.

If all buyers that flew to UK joined buyers at local SIMI dealers then prices go up at said SIMI dealer.

colm_mcm

Would be interesting to see if those with a VRT exemption will have to pay this tax?

Prezatch

Anyone know where Nox values for car models are listed?


EDIT: Found:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/ - Irish times said this would be most reliable, but currently missing data on Nox
http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ - has Nox data but maybe not that reliable!

According to some figures here there isn't much to be worrying about really: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-6733271/Are-diesel-cars-really-dirty-Tests-reveal-models-produce-zero-NOx-emissions.html

MrMusician18

AMKC wrote: »

I think its a good idea. They should have put a tax on importing cars from the UK to to make the car the same price or higher than the price you would pay here. Whats wrong with supporting your own country and paying the taxes to the country that you live in instead of trying to avoid that? If you are not happy with buying in your own country then go feck off and live in whatever country you are buying that car from. That's my opinion and what I think anyway.

We don't have an indigenous car industry, we have car retailers that import cars.

The Irish retail network adds little or no value in the chain so why should an individual have to reward that by buying at an inflated price? There single market promised us free and fair competition, yet we have a government happy to distort the market.

colm_mcm

Prezatch wrote: »

Anyone know where Nox values for car models are listed?


EDIT: Found:

https://carfueldata.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/ - Irish times said this would be most reliable, but currently missing data on Nox
http://www.emissionsfinder.com/ - has Nox data but maybe not that reliable!

According to some figures here there isn't much to be worrying about really: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-6733271/Are-diesel-cars-really-dirty-Tests-reveal-models-produce-zero-NOx-emissions.html

That completecar article is saying it would add €2700 VRT to a 151 Focus though?

Marcusm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would be interesting to see if those with a VRT exemption will have to pay this tax?

I assume it will be a component in th computation of the VRT rather than a separate tax. In the case, the exemption on transfer of residence which is necessary for EU transferred (at least) so as not to impinge freedom of movement would not have to pay it.

WacoKid

"Does Budget 2020 price UK car imports out of the market?"

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/does-budget-2020-price-uk-car-imports-out-of-the-market-1.4046366

kirving

You know, I wouldn't even mind but everyone knows that the NOx figures were a complete lie by manufacturers for years.

Troy McClure

Can I ask has there any practical examples of VRT difference post and pre Dec 31st 19, car import been done? I can't find much on it.

Allowing for what info is out there from Gov, what would the difference in VRT to bring a 2016 1.6 Diesel car in 109 Co2 this side and after Christmas? Say a golf for EG.

Where do you find Nox figure and what do you do with it anyway?

colm_mcm

Yep.

2015 Octavia 2.0. Co2 = 110.

Pre = €2350
Post = €4100

Troy McClure

Damn!

I called revenue who said it's from the date you bring the car into the country and not the date of your NCT centre VRT payment. Hope this is correct.

Would like to see example for 1.6 Diesel. How did you calculate this?

colm_mcm

DVLA have emissions details for most models.

User1998

Troy McClure wrote: »

Damn!

I called revenue who said it's from the date you bring the car into the country and not the date of your NCT centre VRT payment. Hope this is correct.

Would like to see example for 1.6 Diesel. How did you calculate this?

If its vag group 1.6 diesel your after its a similar increase to the 2.0 described above, I think around €1500 nox charge.

Troy McClure

So the Nox tax is 'on top' of the current VRT tax or is it replacing it. Basically is it an increase of €1,500 from Jan 1st?