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Budget 2020: VRT on used imports

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    #62
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    So the Nox tax is 'on top' of the current VRT tax or is it replacing it. Basically is it an increase of €1,500 from Jan 1st?

    Yes, on top!


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    #63
    WacoKid
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭WacoKid


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    So the Nox tax is 'on top' of the current VRT tax or is it replacing it. Basically is it an increase of €1,500 from Jan 1st?

    VRT in 2020 will be: (2019 VRT - 1% Levy) + New Nox Charge


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    #64
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,220 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see if those with a VRT exemption will have to pay this tax?

    It’s in clause 49 of Finance Bill 2019 which changes the computation of VRT to include the NOx component. As VRT is remitted for transfers of residence, this component wouldn’t be payable either. Likewise I suspect with primary medical certs etc.


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    #65
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    Any idea how VRT export will be treated - will there be a sudden exodus of NOX heavy cars to the UK? That would be a great irony :)


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    #66
    Troy McClure
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭Troy McClure


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    Damn!

    I called revenue who said it's from the date you bring the car into the country and not the date of your NCT centre VRT payment. Hope this is correct.

    Would like to see example for 1.6 Diesel. How did you calculate this?


    I called revenue again yesterday on this and was told the complete opposite! You pay VRT for the day car is presented. They say they are sending a note out on this. Furthermore if you bring in a car to an NCT centre to pay VRT in December and they don't have it on the list they will have to refer your car. This can take up to 20 working days at the minute apparently. If this waiting brings you into Jan '20 you will be hit for the Nox charge. This seems unfair as you resented the car in Dec, and the guy from revenue agreed but he said that's the ruling.

    However!!!!

    On the differential. Can I ask how are you calculating the examples given above such as the Skoda Octavia? Where are you getting €1,500 from? I went through an example with someone in revenue for a VW Golf 2016 which has a CO2 of 101 and a NoX Figure of 0.069 g/km
    Which is 69mg.
    Parameters are
    0-60Mg is €5 /mg
    60-80Mg is €15 / mg
    >80Mg is €25 /mg etc..

    So 69mg is 60 x€5 (€300) plus 9 x €15 (€135) giving a total NoX charge of €435
    However as the 1% diesel levy is ending Jan 1st, this means -1% less VRT which is €100 less on a 10K car. (17% to 16% VRT level).

    So the increase in January in this example is €335 ! With older diesels this will be higher but in this instance can anyone find fault with these figures?

    Allowing there will be more choice of cars to buy that are deemed to be a year older with the new year, on top of the fact that revenues own valuation stand point for the OMSP, which vrt is 16% of, will also have dropped come jan 1st, then surely it makes sense to wait??


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    #67
    michellie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    I called revenue again yesterday on this and was told the complete opposite! You pay VRT for the day car is presented. They say they are sending a note out on this. Furthermore if you bring in a car to an NCT centre to pay VRT in December and they don't have it on the list they will have to refer your car. This can take up to 20 working days at the minute apparently. If this waiting brings you into Jan '20 you will be hit for the Nox charge.

    This is right unfortunately, I have been warning people of this as I don't think it's fair and from my experience, there is A LOT of people who are unaware of how the VRT process works (unavailable stat codes and Manual Valuations) and will get caught with this. In hoping people can appeal it if they are caught out unfairly


    Theres not 20 working day wait though- some are returning prices within 24/48 hours at the minute, but this will be longer in December as I'm sure a **** load of people are going to start booking in.

    Book your appointments and give yourself plenty of time people, and for the love of god if you're buying cars get the V5.


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    #68
    Troy McClure
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭Troy McClure


    The 20 working days figure is what the girl on the booking line said to me. If the car your bringing in is defo on the revenue vrt listing this won't pose a problem.

    That said I am more interested to know what people think on waiting till the new year v getting it done before Christmas allowing for the figures above.


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    #69
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    The 20 working days figure is what the girl on the booking line said to me. If the car your bringing in is defo on the revenue vrt listing this won't pose a problem.

    That said I am more interested to know what people think on waiting till the new year v getting it done before Christmas allowing for the figures above.

    Will you be over the 30 day limit if you leave it till after christmas,
    Most cars only drop a few hundred in January anyway unless there high end cars, so i don't see any big saving either way.


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    #70
    michellie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    The 20 working days figure is what the girl on the booking line said to me. If the car your bringing in is defo on the revenue vrt listing this won't pose a problem.

    That said I am more interested to know what people think on waiting till the new year v getting it done before Christmas allowing for the figures above.

    20 working days is definitely not right. The only time it took that long was the first brexit deadline in March.

    But even if your car is on the revenue system it can be sent for valuation, if it's a higher end vehicle under 1&2 years old (depending on the model). Or if it's a older vehicle and it will go to the CVO for X1X2 depreciation
    valuation. This can delay things.

    Your calculations above do seem correct, it could be a risk that may work out well.


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    #71
    Troy McClure
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭Troy McClure


    mgn wrote: »
    Will you be over the 30 day limit if you leave it till after christmas,
    Most cars only drop a few hundred in January anyway unless there high end cars, so i don't see any big saving either way.


    A few hundred would cover the extra NoX tax in most average cases for Euro5/6 engine cars, not to mention there would much more choice in January with all the trade ins.


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    #72
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    A few hundred would cover the extra NoX tax in most average cases for Euro5/6 engine cars, not to mention there would much more choice in January with all the trade ins.

    There wont be more choice in the UK in January because the change of Reg plates goes from September to March. For instance if you buy a new car in September 2016 car on a 66 plate, that same plate lasts until March 2017.
    So that means January is a quiet month for people buying cars.
    As for price there would be no difference in price now and in January.


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    #73
    Troy McClure
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭Troy McClure


    mgn wrote: »
    There wont be more choice in the UK in January because the change of Reg plates goes from September to March. For instance if you buy a new car in September 2016 car on a 66 plate, that same plate lasts until March 2017.
    So that means January is a quiet month for people buying cars.
    As for price there would be no difference in price now and in January.


    Reg plates can also have the year instead on them as people in the uk have copped on to the fact their car is worth more with the year denoted if the buy at the end of the cycle you mention. It's not as pronounced as here but definitely there.

    It's semantics really as Brexit will happen Jan 31st which puts an end to importing cars from uk. Jan would be very tight on time.


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    #74
    mgn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭mgn


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    Reg plates can also have the year instead on them as people in the uk have copped on to the fact their car is worth more with the year denoted if the buy at the end of the cycle you mention. It's not as pronounced as here but definitely there.

    It's semantics really as Brexit will happen Jan 31st which puts an end to importing cars from uk. Jan would be very tight on time.

    I don't know about the Jan 31st deadline if Boris get the majority that's being talked about,
    It wouldn't surprise me if he goes for the Dec 31st, and if he does the lot is up in the air.


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    #75
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    mgn wrote: »
    I don't know about the Jan 31st deadline if Boris get the majority that's being talked about,
    It wouldn't surprise me if he goes for the Dec 31st, and if he does the lot is up in the air.

    December 31st would be if he gets a deal through parliament in December I think.

    If he does get a deal through then its into a transition period to December 2020.

    My understanding is that in the Transition period things generally go as per now.

    Boris seems committed to his deal so if he gets a majority then it should be January 31st exit with a deal.

    The bigger challenge is where you have a hung parliament.

    You would have the likes of Corbyn trying to put a Govt together and ditto Johnson.

    Hung parliament could really mess things up because you have a no deal risk if new parliament can't make it's mind up.


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    #76
    digiman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭digiman


    Would there be any difference in vrt prices of a 2019 car if it was VRTed in December or in January?


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    #77
    User1998
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭User1998


    digiman wrote: »
    Would there be any difference in vrt prices of a 2019 car if it was VRTed in December or in January?

    Usually its lower in January but sometimes not. On a 2019 I’d say it would be a good bit less, but the nox tax is also coming in so if the car is diesel it could cancel out the savings in VRT, also if you wait until January and have the car in Ireland for more than 30 days you’ll have to pay fees for that too


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    #78
    digiman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭digiman


    User1998 wrote: »
    Usually its lower in January but sometimes not. On a 2019 I’d say it would be a good bit less, but the nox tax is also coming in so if the car is diesel it could cancel out the savings in VRT, also if you wait until January and have the car in Ireland for more than 30 days you’ll have to pay fees for that too

    It would be a petrol most probably. What do they use to verify how long the car has been in the country?


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    #79
    User1998
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭User1998


    digiman wrote: »
    It would be a petrol most probably. What do they use to verify how long the car has been in the country?

    If its petrol you’ll be better off doing it in January then. Unless brexit has an impact on the vrt process (I’m not really up to date on brexit)

    You have to prove when the car entered the country. If you bought the car in the UK you need the ferry ticket or shipping document, if from the north its the date of sale on the invoice. You obviously haven’t bought the car yet have you? So your not going to get a December appointment either way.


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    #80
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    User1998 wrote: »
    If its petrol you’ll be better off doing it in January then. Unless brexit has an impact on the vrt process (I’m not really up to date on brexit)

    You have to prove when the car entered the country. If you bought the car in the UK you need the ferry ticket or shipping document, if from the north its the date of sale on the invoice. You obviously haven’t bought the car yet have you? So your not going to get a December appointment either way.


    Will he not be hit with nox emissions then? And from what I see that’s going to be substantial for a lot of the cars or am I wrong?

    I’m interested in getting a 2015 bmw X5 30d msport... I assume the nox will add loads to price so better buying it before Jan?


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    #81
    User1998
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭User1998


    LillySV wrote: »
    Will he not be hit with nox emissions then? And from what I see that’s going to be substantial for a lot of the cars or am I wrong?

    I’m interested in getting a 2015 bmw X5 30d msport... I assume the nox will add loads to price so better buying it before Jan?

    No because he said its petrol, it’s diesel that will be worse effected. Well it doesn’t matter when you buy the car its about when you get your vrt appointment. I’m not sure about when the nct centres close for Christmas but you don’t have much time left. I think with the 520d the lower omsp in Jan would outweigh the nox tax but for a 3 litre I’m not so sure. You’d have to find out the nox levels it produces and do the sums


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    #82
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    User1998 wrote: »
    No because he said its petrol, it’s diesel that will be worse effected. Well it doesn’t matter when you buy the car its about when you get your vrt appointment. I’m not sure about when the nct centres close for Christmas but you don’t have much time left. I think with the 520d the lower omsp in Jan would outweigh the nox tax but for a 3 litre I’m not so sure. You’d have to find out the nox levels it produces and do the sums

    Hi Im thinking strongly of a 2017 bmw 530d xdrive m sport...i see the co2 emissions is 138 g/km ..is that the nox or where do i find that?


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    #83
    PaulRyan97
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭PaulRyan97


    LillySV wrote: »
    Hi Im thinking strongly of a 2017 bmw 530d xdrive m sport...i see the co2 emissions is 138 g/km ..is that the nox or where do i find that?

    https://www.nextgreencar.com/view-car/62816/bmw-5-series-saloon-520d-xdrive-se-auto-diesel-automatic-8-speed/


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    #84
    LillySV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,750 ✭✭✭LillySV


    PaulRyan97 wrote: »
    https://www.nextgreencar.com/view-car/62816/bmw-5-series-saloon-520d-xdrive-se-auto-diesel-automatic-8-speed/

    so going on that the 530d xdrive is NOx:52 mg/km...is that right?

    the way the info is presented isnt that clear to me...:confused:

    If The nox is 52mg/km I’m probably better off by €100 in Jan so I assume the figure I have is wrong ...?


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    #85
    ma88
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭ma88


    Hello there, looking on a 2015 reg E220 MB Amg, now with a CO2 - 121 it costs €3400 vrt, if will do later in jan'20 may get down from this amount but will add the new NOx - 0.042 as it is on the book!
    So my question is its a good point to do it now b4 christmas or after?!
    As im not sure how the new NOx will work out!
    Thanks.


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    #86
    Troy McClure
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭Troy McClure


    It wont make any difference now as you wont get an appointment to pay VRT before Christmas as they are completely full up. Wont make much difference as NoX on that is €210 but it's OMSP will be lower in january so percentage of this will mean lower VRT. If it's diesel you wont pay the 1% Levy either come January either.


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    #87
    ma88
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭ma88


    Troy McClure wrote: »
    It wont make any difference now as you wont get an appointment to pay VRT before Christmas as they are completely full up. Wont make much difference as NoX on that is €210 but it's OMSP will be lower in january so percentage of this will mean lower VRT. If it's diesel you wont pay the 1% Levy either come January either.


    Thanks Troy McClure, im willing to travel out of Dublin, can see few spots in Arklow over the coming days, earlier was in Enniscorthy few-gone now, they are changing constantly, just need to check it regular!
    Just did check the same car on a 14 reg, that is down to 2500 - so if mine could go down to the same 2500 in january comparing to 3400 now and + 210 NoX=2700 comparing to 3400 i should pay now, if my calculations/depreciations are well done!
    My worry is if whorted the waiting time for few hundred quid or not!
    Thanks again.


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