oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-09-2019 10:09pm

alastair wrote: »

Nope. Any gambler worth their salt will bet on the country with better provision and greater odds of attaining protection. That’s not Ireland.

Maybe ask the lads that leaped out of trucks in Loais and Galway this year what their story was, were they attracted to the Irish weather, over the French port they left from?

Any Gambler assess their risk vs reward accordingly, a 10/1 wild shot over a safer evens may well be more attractive.

Maybe a string of free endless appeals (risk elimnation) is an attainment in itself, you only get one crack at the Superbowl winner you don't get another free go unless it's a money back special offer.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:10pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

yes there is ,

again posted above

spoofing again

Repeating the same erroneous claim isn’t an improvement.

mynamejeff · 16-09-2019 10:13pm

alastair wrote: »

Repeating the same erroneous claim isn’t an improvement.

denying the same proven fact again and again is akind to a more serious problem

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:13pm

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

Maybe ask the lads that leaped out of trucks in Loais and Galway this year what their story was, were they attracted to the Irish weather, over the French port they left from?

Any Gambler assess their risk vs reward accordingly, a 10/1 wild shot over a safer evens may well be more attractive.

Maybe a string of free endless appeals (risk eliminaiton) is an attainment in itself, you only get one crack at the Superbowl winner you don't get another free go.

There is no endless appeals. There’s a singular appeal for asylum, then a subsequence claim for protected status. That’s it. The state may offer leave to remain, but there’s only two appeal rounds allowed for asylum seekers.

The well publicised outcomes for protection are not inviting - about the worst odds in the EU.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:16pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

denying the same proven fact again and again is akind to a more serious problem

Once again - it is not a proven fact. I’m well aware of the Dublin regulation. It doesn’t impose any obligation on the asylum seeker re country of claim. None. There’s a (remote) possibility the state might transfer the claim, but that’s not an obligation of the asylum seeker, but the recipient state. And the reality is that the Dublin convention is rarely enforced, except for repeat asylum attempts.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/#

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:23pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we pay out more benefits in cash, have an abismal fraud prevention toolkit and are a great jumping point to the UK. The volcanic ash cloud showed just how many people were living elsewhere and claiming welfare here. We had a case where a roma man had a property divided into 9 'apartments' to claim rent allowance on every room , by coming here they can have it all, claim the dole and a bit of fraudulent bonus payments here, go live in the UK and come back once a month to sign on. Almost nothing to stop all that free money leaving the island.

No we do not. Not sure what fraud has to do with asylum seekers. Their claims are either accepted or rejected. No asylum seeker can claim dole. And as we have already established the odds of getting protected status are lower than other, generous welfare states.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:24pm

jay0109 wrote: »

You've duped and baited enough on here tonight. I've better things to be doing

Thought so.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-09-2019 10:31pm

alastair wrote: »

.... That’s it. The state may offer leave to remain....
The well publicised outcomes for protection are not inviting - about the worst odds in the EU.

They may well do indeed (leave to remain).

Again odds may be high when rewards are high.
e.g. There are roughly 100million euromillion tickets sold every single week across Europe (the odds are even higher) no matter, sure everyone wants to live the dream, it's human nature to some extent.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:35pm

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

They may well do indeed (leave to remain).

Again odds may be high when rewards are high.
e.g. There are roughly 100million euromillion tickets sold every single week across Europe (the odds are even higher) no matter, sure everyone wants to live the dream, it's human nature to some extent.

The leave to remain decisions are rare, why would you opt to buy euromiliions tickets if there was a lottery with lower odds and better payouts?

Granadino · 16-09-2019 10:38pm

handlemaster wrote: »

In short irish people are racist. Its ok somewhere else and the irish will talk with glowing paddy wackary superlatives about looking out for our fellow man. But alas it means nothing without action. How many times have we seen this over the last decade. .. ok were not against these people ... BUT..

Not all, but yeah, for sure, there is possibly a racist element to the protests as well, though I wouldn't say the people in Oughterard are racist, but this land of a 1000 welcomes and we're friendly and great craic etc etc to foreigners has a whiff of billy bullsh*t off it. e.g. look at most of the staff working in crappy conditions for these dental chains in Ireland. A lot of them are foreigners, (or recently graduated Irish students). How many foreign dentists are working in private practices? That's just one example.
Landing 250 people, no matter where they are from to live in a village or town is madness.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-09-2019 10:40pm

alastair wrote: »

The leave to remain decisions are rare, why would you opt to buy euromiliions tickets if there was a lottery with lower odds and better payouts?

There isn't, Euromillions is over 150million this week, some machines have packed in at the shops as demand is so high, dream big, take that risk!

Also what do you think is going to happen once the uk shut the door on the EU? Bear in mind they've set new records for landings this week over at Dover, x86 landed upon multiple craft on one single day from France. Few (if any at all) were from Syria.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:46pm

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

There isn't, Euromillions is over 150million this week, some machines have packed in at the shops as demand is so high, dream big, take that risk!

Also what do you think is going to happen once the uk shut the door on the EU? Bear in mind they've set new records for landings this week over at Dover, x86 landed upon multiple craft on one single day from France. Few (if any at all) were from Syria.

Euromillions sells because it has high odds but significantly bigger payouts than anything else. That’s not comparable with the asylum claim lottery - lower odds and higher payouts available elsewhere.

The UK leaving the EU will have little impact on asylum. The same criteria will apply to claims.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-09-2019 10:51pm

alastair wrote: »

Euromillions sells because it has high odds but significantly bigger payouts than anything else. That’s not comparable with the asylum claim lottery - lower odds and higher payouts available elsewhere.

The reward for success (if JSA) is nearly triple that of the Uk. Yes indeed agree that big jackpots are often a big attraction.

alastair wrote: »

The UK leaving the EU will have little impact on asylum. The same criteria will apply to claims.

Inc. Appeals and right to remain. But you do surely understand the (basic) rules of 'supply & demand', the gates slamming closed over at Dover is a major supply restriction in NW Europe.

Expect an increase in business/applicants.

Spanish Eyes · 16-09-2019 10:54pm

Let the people who want scammers (non UN vetted) asylum seekers into their own homes now do it.

I am sure they will. ha fkn ha.

alastair · 16-09-2019 10:57pm

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

The reward for success (if JSA) is nearly triple that of the Uk. Yes indeed agree that big jackpots are often a big attraction.

Inc. Appeals and right to remain. But you do surely understand the (basic) rules of 'supply & demand', the gates slamming closed over at Dover is a major supply restriction in NW Europe.

Expect an increase in business/applicants.

The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.

The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.

Spanish Eyes · 16-09-2019 11:05pm

alastair wrote: »

The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.

The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.

Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

Trafficked.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-09-2019 11:07pm

alastair wrote: »

The UK is far from being the most generous welfare provider for successful asylum seekers though. And the UK still attracts proportionally far more asylum claims than Ireland. So none of this makes much sense as a theory.

Exactly, Ireland is better value. The uk is much closer to France (so cheaper/easier for traffickers). But once the gates really close, the gangs will likely focus on French ferries to Rosslare or Dublin instead of light craft and kayaks across a shorter stretch of water.

alastair wrote: »

The gates have been slammed closed for asylum seekers at Dover for years. Brexit won’t impact on that reality - it’ll be no less/greater a difficulty to enter the UK to make a claim.

For years? Is that why 86 landed on one single day last week (new record) and 41 yesterday. Boris will have an increased border force to avail from, with additional checks at all ports and ferrys, Ireland will quickly become the defacto alternative.

Even moderately skilled people will have trouble getting into the uk to live with his points system coming in.

alastair · 16-09-2019 11:10pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

Trafficked.

They arrive by plane, by ferry, by independently hopping trailers, and yes; in some cases by paying traffickers. They still make their claim here.

alastair · 16-09-2019 11:22pm

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

Exactly, Ireland is better value. The uk is much closer to France (so cheaper/easier for traffickers). But once the gates really close, the gangs will likely focus on French ferries to Rosslare or Dublin instead of light craft and kayaks across a shorter stretch of water.

It’s demonstrably worse value. Worse odds, worse provision. The gates closed as much as they can on Calais etc years ago. There’s not going to be increased security on cross channel crossings.

Lawson Ambitious Condo wrote: »

For years? Is that why 86 landed on one single day last week (new record) and 41 yesterday. Boris will have an increased border force to avail from, with additional checks at all ports and ferrys, Ireland will quickly become the defacto alternative.

Even moderately skilled people will have trouble getting into the uk to live with his points system coming in.

Yes - years. The current numbers are way down from 2002 when 700 people per month were entering via cross channel and Eurotunnel entry points. The figure for the entirety of this year is only 1,256. Points have nothing to do with asylum claims.

Homelander · 16-09-2019 11:34pm

Homelander wrote: »

Unless I'm missing something, the figures that show that 90-95% of them from certain countries are rejected as asylum seekers, would certainly suggest that they were only here for a better life and nothing to do with escaping impending death/torture/persecution or whatever. Now, putting that aside, because one could obviously claim that they're more than willing to work and not looking to 'sponge', if they were granted residency here. Isn't there an absolutely massive portion of African people legitimately living in the state that are unemployed? I'm genuinely just asking, because I don't inherently think what he said automatically has zero gravitas and can be just dismissed as baseless ramblings from a clueless racist.

Sorry to quote my own post, but could someone address this? I'm not trying to be confronting, but more just curious as to what the response would be. I like to think I'm very much open to correction and education on this point. If proven entirely wrong, I'd gladly accept it too.

17-09-2019 12:50am

Homelander wrote: »

Sorry to quote my own post, but could someone address this? I'm not trying to be confronting, but more just curious as to what the response would be. I like to think I'm very much open to correction and education on this point. If proven entirely wrong, I'd gladly accept it too.

You are not wrong, it doesn't add up. Sadly our media are either too scared or to biased to highlight these discrepancies.

Doblin · 17-09-2019 4:01am

So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

17-09-2019 5:35am

Doblin wrote: »

So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

How will we ever know that? There's not even a slight hope of all those services coming to a small village like Oughterard, so your post and its posit are total waffle. Such a waste of your time for writing it and mine for reading it.

Faugheen · 17-09-2019 5:36am

To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?

malinheader · 17-09-2019 5:44am

Faugheen wrote: »

To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?

Where does he come on the list of all td,s expenses. Or did you just single him out.

Faugheen · 17-09-2019 6:13am

malinheader wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

To add another bow into the scare-mongering, rabble-rousing racist that is Noel Grealish - he claimed €45,000 in unvouched expenses last year.

Who exactly is ‘sponging the system’ here?

Where does he come on the list of all td,s expenses. Or did you just single him out.

I don’t know, to be honest.

I would still say 45k unvouched is ‘sponging the system’ though, wouldn’t you?

Wompa1 · 17-09-2019 7:31am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why or how do they still arrive to our Island Nations.

Trafficked.

Talked to a few Iraqis living in the US over my time while I was there. In those cases all of those I spoke with said they made it to Turkey and became asylum seekers. They presented to the UN and told their stories then waited. They didn't have a say of where they went at that point. They happened to be sent to some US representative who interviewed them and accepted their application and sent them to the US.

From what I understand, developed nations commit to taking so many.

Some of the stories they told me were f'kin horrifying. In all of their cases, they were Christians with businesses in Iraq. They had family killed and were threatened if they didn't pay them each week. Odd conversations to have as they were in the US and the US was largely responsible for what ended up happening to them. All but one had made peace with it. The one who didn't was pretty fired up. All said they will never get to go back home.

Wibbling wonder · 17-09-2019 8:33am

Doblin wrote: »

So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

Speaking for myself that would partially address the concerns but bear in mind it is also proposed to bring in up to 250 asylum seekers which for our population is too many. We've already gone on the record as saying that even now a more manageable number would of course be considered.

As has already been said though, there isn't a chance of getting those resources. We have been campaigning for over 10 years trying to get a footbridge over the river so our kids can safely walk to school and have gotten no where.

markodaly · 17-09-2019 8:35am

alastair wrote: »

Once again - it is not a proven fact. I’m well aware of the Dublin regulation. It doesn’t impose any obligation on the asylum seeker re country of claim. None. There’s a (remote) possibility the state might transfer the claim, but that’s not an obligation of the asylum seeker, but the recipient state. And the reality is that the Dublin convention is rarely enforced, except for repeat asylum attempts.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/#

You are playing with words here.

There is a provision whereby if a claim is logged in Ireland, the Irish state is well within its rights to transfer the claim to another country, usually the one they first entered. In other words, the Irish State is legally allowed to transfer/deport pretty much all of its Asylum seekers to another EU country.

The Dublin Regulation is there to stop 'Asylum shopping' and from multiple claims happening at the same time.

Dare I say, its time to update it as well.

Galwayguy35 · 17-09-2019 8:35am

Doblin wrote: »

So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

Maybe quite a few of them aren't happy about a couple of hundred people being dumped into their area without any consultation with the locals.

David Stanton has said on Prime Time that people souldn't have a say when DP centres come to the area they live in so maybe folks are getting sick of being told what to do.

Stanton might be whistling a different tune though if one was set up in his own posh neighbourhood.

ThunbergsAreGo · 17-09-2019 8:39am

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe quite a few of them aren't happy about a couple of hundred people being dumped into their area without any consultation with the locals.

David Stanton has said on Prime Time that people souldn't have a say when DP centres come to the area they live in so maybe folks are getting sick of being told what to do.

Stanton might be whistling a different tune though if one was set up in his own posh neighbourhood.

Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built - why is a direct provision centre so much different?

It is a change in the usage of a property from a hotel (short term) to long term

The Government are coming out really bad on this - absolute bullys (who in turn are being bullied by the EU)

Boggles · 17-09-2019 8:43am

Wibbling wonder wrote: »

As has already been said though, there isn't a chance of getting those resources. We have been campaigning for over 10 years trying to get a footbridge over the river so our kids can safely walk to school and have gotten no where.

Apart from a new bridge

New bridge for Oughterard village as old structure to be bypassed by main N59 traffic

The current N59 bridge on the Clifden side of the village will be bypassed to make way for a new bridge 50 metres on the village side.
The old bridge will remain open for local access only.

The new structure over the Owenriff River will also have footbridges added on both sides to ensure pedestrian safety.

Galwayguy35 · 17-09-2019 8:44am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built - why is a direct provision centre so much different?

It is a change in the usage of a property from a hotel (short term) to long term

The Government are coming out really bad on this - absolute bullys (who in turn are being bullied by the EU)

It is ridiculous and I'd suspect he might have got a bit of a bollocking later on for saying it publicly but of course Miriam O Callaghan was never going to push it further with him.

Boggles · 17-09-2019 8:49am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built

Consultation process with who?

Chinasea · 17-09-2019 8:55am

Doblin wrote: »

So the people of Oughterard insist that the issue here is the lack of virious services, so I wonder if the government announced today that a Garda & Sargent are going to be based full-time in the station, 2 extra GPS were coming to the village and the local schools were to get more teachers/snas/resource teachers would the locals be happy? My arse they would.

Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

ThunbergsAreGo · 17-09-2019 8:59am

Boggles wrote: »

Consultation process with who?

Consultation was the wrong word - you need planning permission and all residents/anyone can put forward objections/clarification etc

Patrick2010 · 17-09-2019 9:06am

Chinasea wrote: »

Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

Big difference in people coming to work and spend money in the local economy and migrants holed up in a local hotel

Galwayguy35 · 17-09-2019 9:09am

Chinasea wrote: »

Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

The centre was supposed to be in Athenry, that's not close by and it wouldn't have brought thousands of people.

Wibbling wonder · 17-09-2019 9:09am

Boggles wrote: »

Apart from a new bridge

That bridge is still under review and there is a bun fight between TII and Galway CC as to what will actually go in. There are pearl mussels amongst other protected species in the environs of the Owenriff SAC so we have had report after report but no progress. The Blason restaurant was bought approx 15 years ago to facilitate this same upgraded bridge and nothing has happened.

Things move at a glacial pace here unless of course you are a developer with the Dept of Justice funding you!

Boggles · 17-09-2019 9:14am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Consultation was the wrong word - you need planning permission and all residents/anyone can put forward objections/clarification etc

Which are summarily ignored at council level because they want the fees that such a development would bring.

Any objection would have to be based on tangible reasons.

One reason that keeps getting mentioned is they only have one GP, which even with the addition of 250 people is still well within the ratio.

Has anyone asked the actual GP what they think?

Wibbling wonder · 17-09-2019 9:23am

GP has had to close his list already so can't take existing residents on. When asked about the potential DP centre he confirmed no one had contacted him with regard to checking if he had capacity to take on new patients.

Boggles · 17-09-2019 9:31am

Wibbling wonder wrote: »

GP has had to close his list already so can't take existing residents on. When asked about the potential DP centre he confirmed no one had contacted him with regard to checking if he had capacity to take on new patients.

Really?

Dr. Peter Harte (GMS) can be found at Health Centre, Oughterard, Co. Galway. The general practice's phone number is **********. Among the HSE contracted general practices in the area, there are 2 within the radius of 5 km, 2 within 10 km and 53 within 30 km.

Sure I'll ring and ask him.

weldoninhio · 17-09-2019 9:50am

alastair wrote: »

That doesn’t do you much good when you need a pair of shoes or tampons.

If you can’t afford a pair of shoes and tampons on €156 a month disposable income then there’s not much else we can do.

Cordell · 17-09-2019 9:51am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats ridiculous, there is a consultation process if 250 houses were being built - why is a direct provision centre so much different?

It is a change in the usage of a property from a hotel (short term) to long term

The Government are coming out really bad on this - absolute bullys (who in turn are being bullied by the EU)

Because the people living in those houses will contribute to the community, they will work and spend their money locally and help the town grow. The DP residents bring nothing to the community (they can't work and they have no money to spend) while using its amenities. And still local residents have more control over the planning permission that they have over the DP center.
The Oughterard people have to be allowed to be pragmatic and put their interests first without being branded as racist.

weldoninhio · 17-09-2019 9:54am

Faugheen wrote: »

Because it was rabble-rousing, scare-mongering bollocks.

People will shout loudest no matter what as long as their stance on wanting them or not wins. It was the same in my home town, initially concerns were raised about the availability of facilities and access, but it was completely forgotten about and descended into a farce because one person made a claim of which they had no proof of, but it suited the low-key racists in the area that just didn’t want them.

The fact that 90%+ are found to be fraudulent backs him up fully. They are here for the welfare.

TheSegal · 17-09-2019 10:00am

Chinasea wrote: »

Look, where were all these protesters when Apple wanted to set-up close by and the hundreds / 1,000s of people that, that would have brought?

Not a yellow vest in site, just red carpets.

Apple were building a data center that would have required very few full-time staff, don't know where you're getting your thousands figure from?

weldoninhio · 17-09-2019 10:00am

alastair wrote: »

Yeaaaah - I’d say you you know feck all.

What percentage are “boys”

Boggles · 17-09-2019 10:04am

Cordell wrote: »

The DP residents bring nothing to the community (they can't work and they have no money to spend)

Incorrect.

Since 2 July 2018, asylum seekers can apply for permission to work.

If you meet the eligibility criteria the permission will allow you to access employment and self-employment. Permission to work is valid for 6 months. You can renew the permission if you have not received a final decision on your international protection application within the 6 months. (A final decision means when you have completed all appeals procedures, including any judicial review proceedings.)

Each person in direct provision gets a Daily Expenses Allowance. The Daily Expenses Allowance (formerly called a Direct Provision Allowance) weekly rate is €29.80 for children and €38.80 for adults (from week beginning 25 March 2019).

alastair · 17-09-2019 10:33am

markodaly wrote: »

You are playing with words here.

There is a provision whereby if a claim is logged in Ireland, the Irish state is well within its rights to transfer the claim to another country, usually the one they first entered. In other words, the Irish State is legally allowed to transfer/deport pretty much all of its Asylum seekers to another EU country.

The Dublin Regulation is there to stop 'Asylum shopping' and from multiple claims happening at the same time.

Dare I say, its time to update it as well.

There is no such provision, unless there’s evidence that the applicant was already being processed in another EU state. Which would mean that their fingerprints or other data were in that state’s system. So no - they’re legally allowed transfer some applicant’s back to another country that had started their asylum process, but that’s a fraction of applicants. Once again - there is no obligation on any asylum seeker to make their claim in any first safe country.

Mr. teddywinkles · 17-09-2019 10:37am

naughtb4 wrote: »

So why Ireland? It's miles away from the first EU country they would hit.

The question id also ask is why not country's like Poland haven't taken any of them. Oh yea they can smell the bs a mile away. If ya want equality everyone has to tow the linr

oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

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