Advice: Become a teacher

11-09-2019 6:24pm

moycullen14 wrote: »

The tax thing is weird. Had a relative (teacher) moan to me about earning less than 3K a month. Shirley shome misteak, says I, though you'd be on 50K plus at your age. Transpires that the 3K was her take-home pay. She didn't actually know what her gross salary was. Also didn't realise that her tax allowances were being used by her husband so her nett was down on what it would have been if she were single. Of course she knew about every other deduction - just not tax. I thought it was a fascinating insight into how divorced some teachers are from the real world.

Wonder what would happen if the revenue had a clamp-down on grinds? :-)

I also know of a teacher moaning their monthly salary was only €2400 a month or something and how much of a mortgage came out of it.

Since they get paid fortnightly at €1200, they thought their monthly pay was €2400...when it was actually €2600.

Maybe if the Government give teachers lessons how to convert fortnightly income to monthly and how outgoings such as mortgage and car loans are monthly might head off the next inevitable strike !!

purifol0 · 11-09-2019 6:24pm

This thread is all sorts of ridiculousness.

Some things to think about:

Why give teachers a set pay scale at all? In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before. IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much. So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?

Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for - defined benefit pension) advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?

Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.

Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers. Its a win-win for our childrens education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs. Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced. And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.

Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish? Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?

Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?

Treppen · 11-09-2019 7:25pm

Private sector!!!

Teaching my class about SRCOP and tax today. Half the class had parents in the trade and self employed.
They literally boasted that their dads tell them they don't pay any tax cos their accountant works it... Each quoted what their daddies told them.
"Get a good accountant son and you'll never pay tax"
"I only had to pay 20€ in tax last year"
" Tax is for eejits"
" Here's a company phone /iPad /laptop son, I'll just put it through the business".
"My dad brings us on holidays to Disneyland while he goes on a business course for a day, so our accommodation is paid for"

Private sector are well represented in politics too!
"

purifol0 · 11-09-2019 7:41pm

Care to address any of my points Treppen or are you just going to para phrase anecdotes from school children?

kippy · 11-09-2019 8:36pm

purifol0 wrote: »

This thread is all sorts of ridiculousness.

Some things to think about:

Why give teachers a set pay scale at all? In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before. IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much. So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?

Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for - defined benefit pension) advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?

Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.

Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers. Its a win-win for our childrens education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs. Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced. And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.

Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish? Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?

Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?

Posts like this are worrying.

purifol0 · 11-09-2019 8:42pm

C'mon now Kippy, surely you can muster some sort of rebuttal?

kippy · 11-09-2019 8:47pm

purifol0 wrote: »

C'mon now Kippy, surely you can muster some sort of rebuttal?

It's not worth the effort. I am finding that with more and more posts/posters on this site of late.

purifol0 · 11-09-2019 8:58pm

Not even a counter argument then. I see. Well if you're not up to discussing it or simply don't have what it takes to debate, feel free to not comment on the thread.

Treppen · 11-09-2019 9:00pm

purifol0 wrote: »

Care to address any of my points Treppen or are you just going to para phrase anecdotes from school children?

Sure lets entertain your blue sky mullings.. you really should talk to some teachers about the profession though before you make general sweeping statements.

purifol0 wrote: »

Why give teachers a set pay scale at all?

The "set pay scale " will always be a myth when teachers are getting a pro rata of that.
e.g. I was on a pro rata + temp contract of this "pay scale" for 10 years before CID.

purifol0 wrote: »

In any profession in the free market/private sector if there is an oversupply of labour, than that professions market worth is less than before.

Dunno what you're inferring here.
Is there an oversupply of teaching Labour?
Is there an undersupply?
I think if you talk to teachers, the answer is neither.
But following your logic... because there is an undersupply of nurses (apparently, I'm happy to be corrected) would you advocate they be paid more now (compared to nurses who started a year ago)?
Also in the case of public sector workers do you really want to be waiting for your kids to get that maths teacher ....once they increase the maths teacher wages in the next budget... and then decrease the English teachers wages because of an over supply!

purifol0 wrote: »

IE there is now an absolute glut of qualified teachers yet places have not increased much.

You'll need a source for that definitive statement.

purifol0 wrote: »

So begs the question why should the taxpayer pay them so much when they could easily be had for cheaper?

Do they pay them so much?
I think 60k after 30 years aint excessive (not to mention the low wages at the start ).
How much do you think they should be paid... (leaving aside the pro rata temp contracts issue).

purifol0 wrote: »

Why should PS workers have this ever increasing salary (increments & uncosted/not paid for -

So you'd pay teachers by what... the amout of H1's their class gets?

purifol0 wrote: »

....defined benefit pension) ...

You know about the changes to the pension scheme?

purifol0 wrote: »

advatange at all since their pay is taken from private sector workers who the govt does not protect?

You kind of want to protect public sector workers, so you have a hospital to go to and a school to babysit your kids.
But if you're advocating that the government protect private sector workers to then lets hear your proposals.

purifol0 wrote: »

Why are teachers not working during the summer months? Children haven't been needed to take in the harvest in some time.

Well if you want to pay me more to work for Summer then ya I'm all for that.
I do think kids need a break during the Summer though.

purifol0 wrote: »

Why have teachers complain that class sizes are >30 when there are so many of them. Surely we could half class sizes AND employ twice as many teachers.

And what... build twice the amount of schools... or maybe just teach them in the broom cupboards.

And wait.... are you saying that you could employ twice the amount of teachers by halving their wages? You serious?

Are you high?

purifol0 wrote: »

Its a win-win for our children's education and the tax-payer and now new teachers would have permanent jobs .

YA sure, permanent jobs of 15k a year. Are you related to Eddie Hobbs or something?

purifol0 wrote: »

Of course we could also simply reduce their pay so the tax payer wouldnt be fleeced.

Of course.

purifol0 wrote: »

And if any teachers were unhappy with the new arrangements they could resign and seek employment in the private sector or teach abroad. Plenty will take their place.

oh so a revolving door like the UK ...plenty to take their place too, as long as they keep believing the **** spun here by experts.

purifol0 wrote: »

Why must teachers have to be fluent in Irish?

Different debate there ted.

purifol0 wrote: »

Is it because the unions wanted to minimize competition from immigrant teachers and maintain a closed shop?

Where are you sourcing this idea from. Unions don't really care about the natiaonality of their members. AS a teacher neither do I...

But maybe you should ask a teacher about the teaching council. Especially ask teachers coming from abroad.

purifol0 wrote: »

Bonus Q:Why are teachers so over represented in politics?

Well I'll ask for stats on that. But surprisingly you'll find a lot of people leave teaching. Maybe because they don't want to be teachers... for some bizarre reason.

I dunno what is your answer. Lots of private sector workers in the Dáil too.

I never agreed with Enda and the likes getting the teachers pension on top of their Dáil pension either if that's what you're talking about. But that issues lies squarely at the foot of the politicians and not the teachers who stayed teaching.

or maybe teachers became politicians because they have a sense of public duty, greater good and all that.

kippy · 11-09-2019 9:01pm

purifol0 wrote: »

Not even a counter argument then. I see. Well if you're not up to discussing it or simply don't have what it takes to debate, feel free to not comment on the thread.

I made the point that your post was worrying. I felt it had to be said. There's no point arguing with such posts.
I'll comment on what I like.

square ball · 11-09-2019 11:05pm

My girlfriend is friendly with two primary teachers in our estate. My GF is a nurse. She is the same age as one of the teachers who is 29 and went to school with her. Both my GF and her friend did leaving cert the same year and graduated university with Degree's the same year. The teacher leaves home at between 8.30 - 8.50 and returns home between 3.30 - 4-30 with all her Croke Park hours, correcting, class plans and extra circulars done. She earns approx €47k gross per year. My girlfriend earns approx €40k per year as she is not receiving shift allowance. The teacher works probably 55 - 65% of the hours my GF works over the year.

The working conditions are much worse in the hospital and the stress she is under is much higher obviously.

Many teachers would not be able to survive in other sectors and I think many have been institutionalised having never really left school especially those who went to Mary I straight from school.

Okay dealing with children/teenagers can be annoying and frustrating at times but Christ on a bike anyone working with the public, other colleagues and especially people supervising or managing staff also deal with other peoples personal problems too.

The majority of teachers are good at their jobs and well trained but being competent at your job isn't a good enough reason for getting paid too much as it is a soft job for what they get paid.

I'm happy enough with the job I'm in and don't want to read the same thing out of a book for 40 years but teachers are far too highly paid for the job they do especially past point 10 on the payscale.

Black Swan · 11-09-2019 11:35pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Secondly, their work is easy. Their knowledge only needs to reach the level of an intelligent 18 year old at best. All this talk of doing lesson plans and homework in the evenings is overstated. They do them once and that's it, maybe a slight review a day before they go back to school.

Fails to differentiate between the teacher occupational title, and what constitutes a real teacher in essence, content, context, and commitment.

99problems1 wrote: »

Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.

A terribly worn out anecdotal chiche without merit.

r93kaey5p2izun · 11-09-2019 11:53pm

Given that Hibernia is now the main teacher training route in the country, and a huge number - I would say the majority - of those doing Hibernia have already been working in another career, the notion that teachers don't generally have experience of the private sector is laughable. I don't know even one teacher who hasn't worked at the very least part time retail or bar work. Many work in these areas alongside teaching in their first few years due to part time temporary contracts. But at second level my experience is that the overwhelming majority of teachers qualified in the past 20 years have already worked in the private sector full time. I worked in the private sector and ran my own business before teaching. I have left teaching and now work as a contractor because it's double the money for less than half the stress. My hours are only slightly longer and my holidays not much shorter. No pension but at least I can afford to live comfortably without moving to the back arse of nowhere. I'm inundated with calls begging me to sub because there's classes sitting all around Dublin every day with no Maths teacher. Last year I taught Leaving Certs in the evening paid privately by the school at a hugely inflated rate because they were desperate. This thread is complete fantasy land level stuff. Teachers are leaving the profession in this country in their droves.

Treppen · 11-09-2019 11:58pm

square ball wrote: »

My girlfriend is friendly with two primary teachers in our estate. My GF is a nurse. She is the same age as one of the teachers who is 29 and went to school with her. Both my GF and her friend did leaving cert the same year and graduated university with Degree's the same year. The teacher leaves home at between 8.30 - 8.50 and returns home between 3.30 - 4-30 with all her Croke Park hours, correcting, class plans and extra circulars done. She earns approx €47k gross per year. My girlfriend earns approx €40k per year as she is not receiving shift allowance. The teacher works probably 55 - 65% of the hours my GF works over the year.

The working conditions are much worse in the hospital and the stress she is under is much higher obviously.

Many teachers would not be able to survive in other sectors and I think many have been institutionalised having never really left school especially those who went to Mary I straight from school.

Okay dealing with children/teenagers can be annoying and frustrating at times but Christ on a bike anyone working with the public, other colleagues and especially people supervising or managing staff also deal with other peoples personal problems too.

The majority of teachers are good at their jobs and well trained but being competent at your job isn't a good enough reason for getting paid too much as it is a soft job for what they get paid.

I'm happy enough with the job I'm in and don't want to read the same thing out of a book for 40 years but teachers are far too highly paid for the job they do especially past point 10 on the payscale.

Not too sure if you're pulling the proverbial here or just genuinely showing your ignorance of what teaching is...

But anyway, your gf nurse needs to be paid more... Pure and simple.

The problem with this thread is that people think they will be happier if bad things happen to other people.

You should be very happy for your gf's teacher. She seems to have a good thing. I don't know how any teacher can come home and not be still working. I usually start work for tomorrow when the kids go to bed... and I'm still not finished. I know a few teachers that can finish work at 4 and pick up again at 8 the next day, but they're the exception.

paleoperson · 11-09-2019 11:58pm

You know what another related doss job is?

Research. Not of course, the hard type of research that involves going through old bones and materials and trying to make sense of things that happened millions of years ago. I'm talking about your "social sciences" research, and even plenty of life sciences research such as diet research.

Feed a bunch of rats two different diets. Perform a few tests on them with some useless derivative "conclusion" and recommendations. Wham, bam, thank you mam - pick up the cheque and enjoy your high social status as an intellectual.

Treppen · 12-09-2019 12:03am

purifol0 wrote: »

Care to address any of my points Treppen or are you just going to para phrase anecdotes from school children?

Care to address my reply?

Treppen · 12-09-2019 12:05am

paleoperson wrote: »

You know what another related doss job is?

Research. Not of course, the hard type of research that involves going through old bones and materials and trying to make sense of things that happened millions of years ago. I'm talking about your "social sciences" research, and even plenty of life sciences research such as diet research.

Feed a bunch of rats two different diets. Perform a few tests on them with some useless derivative "conclusion" and recommendations. Wham, bam, thank you mam - pick up the cheque and enjoy your high social status as an intellectual.

Where do I sign up to these rat-feeding jobs?
I've space in my house for about 10 cages.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 12:15am

Treppen wrote: »

Where do I sign up to these rat-feeding jobs?
I've space in my house for about 10 cages.

Unfortunately just because it's an easy job doesn't mean it's easy to get it. You need to do a masters or another postgraduate degree in it. Talk a lot about your research to the professors and be knowledgeable about what's considered relevant in it. Apply for research jobs at that same institution. Then you're well on your way.

Insect Overlord · 12-09-2019 1:16am

paleoperson wrote: »

Unfortunately just because it's an easy job doesn't mean it's easy to get it. You need to do a masters or another postgraduate degree in it. Talk a lot about your research to the professors and be knowledgeable about what's considered relevant in it. Apply for research jobs at that same institution. Then you're well on your way.

Do you actively hate the idea of academia? Or do you just have some sort of a complex about people who are more intellectual than yourself? That whole inverse snobbery thing is more than a little bit toxic, to be honest, and only serves to embarrass you even more than the nonsense you posted earlier.

12-09-2019 3:39am

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Do you actively hate the idea of academia? Or do you just have some sort of a complex about people who are more intellectual than yourself? That whole inverse snobbery thing is more than a little bit toxic, to be honest, and only serves to embarrass you even more than the nonsense you posted earlier.

He has always comes across like this. I'd pay diamonds to watch him cover a day's lessons tomorrow in his preferred subject.

"doss job". Imagine having such a sad life that you have to look down on others' jobs. Every job is respectable, except to the special ones.

Realt Dearg Sec · 12-09-2019 4:23am

paleoperson wrote: »

You know what another related doss job is?

Research. Not of course, the hard type of research that involves going through old bones and materials and trying to make sense of things that happened millions of years ago. I'm talking about your "social sciences" research, and even plenty of life sciences research such as diet research.

Feed a bunch of rats two different diets. Perform a few tests on them with some useless derivative "conclusion" and recommendations. Wham, bam, thank you mam - pick up the cheque and enjoy your high social status as an intellectual.

Up against stiff competition in this thread, and this forum, you have managed to write the most ill informed and laughably ignorant post I've ever read on boards. Bravo, sir. The researchers will be poring over this one for years to discover its essence, and the teachers, well they'll be putting it on the curriculum for generations of students to understand the limits of the notion of human intellectual progress, and maybe get a good belly laugh out of it as well. Nothing makes the five hour working day go faster than having a good laugh with the students at something that makes you all feel a bit smarter by comparison.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 10:14am

I have no interest in your phony reactions or being baited into repeating things I already clarified quite clearly. I am only interested what the actual truth is - which is in my opinion and a lot of others that a lot of research jobs, like a lot of teaching, are a complete doss and do not achieve anything. At least with teaching something useful tends to get done.

Insect Overlord · 12-09-2019 11:02am

paleoperson wrote: »

I am only interested what the actual truth is - which is in my opinion

Your opinion is absolutely worthless, bud. You make that crystal clear every time you add to this thread.

thesimpsons · 12-09-2019 11:05am

Treppen wrote: »

Private sector!!!

Teaching my class about SRCOP and tax today. Half the class had parents in the trade and self employed.
They literally boasted that their dads tell them they don't pay any tax cos their accountant works it... Each quoted what their daddies told them.
"Get a good accountant son and you'll never pay tax"
"I only had to pay 20€ in tax last year"
" Tax is for eejits"
" Here's a company phone /iPad /laptop son, I'll just put it through the business".
"My dad brings us on holidays to Disneyland while he goes on a business course for a day, so our accommodation is paid for"

Private sector are well represented in politics too!
"

too in some of cases but also a bit like "but everyone is going..." constantly trotted out by teenagers

MrMusician18 · 12-09-2019 12:07pm

Lailah Whining Thresher wrote: »

Given that Hibernia is now the main teacher training route in the country, and a huge number - I would say the majority - of those doing Hibernia have already been working in another career, the notion that teachers don't generally have experience of the private sector is laughable. I don't know even one teacher who hasn't worked at the very least part time retail or bar work. Many work in these areas alongside teaching in their first few years due to part time temporary contracts. But at second level my experience is that the overwhelming majority of teachers qualified in the past 20 years have already worked in the private sector full time. I worked in the private sector and ran my own business before teaching. I have left teaching and now work as a contractor because it's double the money for less than half the stress. My hours are only slightly longer and my holidays not much shorter. No pension but at least I can afford to live comfortably without moving to the back arse of nowhere. I'm inundated with calls begging me to sub because there's classes sitting all around Dublin every day with no Maths teacher. Last year I taught Leaving Certs in the evening paid privately by the school at a hugely inflated rate because they were desperate. This thread is complete fantasy land level stuff. Teachers are leaving the profession in this country in their droves.

The teaching profession seems to me to be full of contradictions. There is no work but you're being begged for sub work?
It's not a cushy number, yet people are leaving the private sector to teach because the conditions are so favourable?

I know one person who left the construction industry to teach science because the stress levels in construction were too high. The sword of Damocles hangs over ones head daily in construction, forgetting a note on a drawing, or having it accidentally removed, could cost hundreds of thousands to rectify he told me. He felt that was far more stressful than looking after 30 teenagers.

Teaching is obviously an important job and it, rightly, should be well paid. The notion though that Irish teachers are so poorly treated that they don't have two pennies to rub together or that the work is more stressful than many other jobs is laughable. The conditions are generally great (unless you're in a particularly rough area), and teachers should acknowledge that, rather than taking the rest of us for fools.

Realt Dearg Sec · 12-09-2019 1:18pm

paleoperson wrote: »

I . I am only interested what the actual truth is - which is in my opinion

Your opinion=truth. Maybe you should value education more.

SJW Lover · 12-09-2019 2:09pm

99problems1 wrote: »

It really is the best profession.

If I knew back when I was 18 what I know now I'd have done it.

I've spoken to many teachers through friends, dating, colleagues at work who have parents etc. as teachers and it is really a top notch job.

Firstly, nearly all of them in my experience say they love their job. Highly different to what I hear every other profession say.

Secondly, their work is easy. Their knowledge only needs to reach the level of an intelligent 18 year old at best. All this talk of doing lesson plans and homework in the evenings is overstated. They do them once and that's it, maybe a slight review a day before they go back to school.

Homework in evenings? I know they do sometimes maybe 1 or 2 hours in the evening. This is their choice however as primary teachers leave at around 3/half 3. If they stayed their 8.5 hours like the rest of us they wouldn't need to bring it home. Even then, it's only time they are spending. Correcting homework is easy. Go into an office and perform analysis on a material or solution and you'll find you're being paid for time + knowledge/skills.

Secondary teachers have it softer again. No classes during parts of the day at all. Last one I was dating was often finished at 11 on a Friday and was not in until lunchtime on a Thursday. "Meetings" nearly always cancelled.

Lastly I browse facebook and that "voice for teachers" page is public so whenever a friend comments on it the page comes up.

Below is a post from yesterday. One person "exhausted" already after a week back at school.

Most teachers wouldn't survive in the private sector.

Didn't even need to mention the holidays.

So if there's any youngster out there deciding what they want to do, do teaching.

No, too repetitive and not challenging enough.

SJW Lover · 12-09-2019 2:10pm

joe40 wrote: »

Right now in England you will get a bursary of £15000 to train as a teacher in some subjects. Paid to train as a teacher...

That's what happens when a profession is ruined.

Teaching in Ireland is still a good job, and is attracting bright, energetic young people. It should be kept that way.

In saying that, as a teacher myself (not young anymore though) the lazy incompetent teachers do exist, but are not as common anymore. School in the 1980s was very different from now.
It is hard to get rid of teachers, I accept that, but modern parents and modern kids will complain readily if they're not been taught properly (and rightly so)
Facing that criticism constantly would make a job difficult for anyone. Many resign themselves.

5 people from my class in school went on to be teachers. All of them were bang average at best and one or two of them i shudder to think of my kids being taught by them.

realdanbreen · 12-09-2019 3:02pm

dont bother wrote: »

@realdanbreen - im pretty sure he works part time in a hotel lobby/bar?! should've studied in school no?

And I'm pretty sure that you are coming across as a codescending type looking down your nose at someone that would have such a job. Your second name isn't Reece-Mogg by any chance?

Treppen · 12-09-2019 3:46pm

paleoperson wrote: »

I have no interest in your phony reactions or being baited into repeating things I already clarified quite clearly. I am only interested what the actual truth is - which is in my opinion and a lot of others that a lot of research jobs, like a lot of teaching, are a complete doss and do not achieve anything. At least with teaching something useful tends to get done.

Where are those rat feeding jobs though. Can you post a link?

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 4:44pm

Treppen wrote: »

Where are those rat feeding jobs though. Can you post a link?

I told you, you need to go to a third level institution and try to work your way in that way. As already clarified getting the job is not easy, but the "research" itself is.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be smart with me or not, you're showing a major lack of knowledge in multiple ways.

12-09-2019 5:03pm

paleoperson, I've got a genuine question for you. You speak English, as do I. That ticks of 100% of your requirements for being an English teacher. Do you think you could teach the Past Perfect as well as I could if you walked into a classroom tomorrow? How about the alphabet?

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 5:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

paleoperson, I've got a genuine question for you. You speak English, as do I. That ticks of 100% of your requirements for being an English teacher. Do you think you could teach the Past Perfect as well as I could if you walked into a classroom tomorrow? How about the alphabet?

I'd be confident in my ability to teach the alphabet, not the past perfect as it's not a required part of the english language.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-09-2019 5:20pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The teaching profession seems to me to be full of contradictions. There is no work but you're being begged for sub work?
It's not a cushy number, yet people are leaving the private sector to teach because the conditions are so favourable?

I know one person who left the construction industry to teach science because the stress levels in construction were too high. The sword of Damocles hangs over ones head daily in construction, forgetting a note on a drawing, or having it accidentally removed, could cost hundreds of thousands to rectify he told me. He felt that was far more stressful than looking after 30 teenagers. He says the paperwork is fine, no worse than any regulated profession, certainly not worse than construction.

Teaching is obviously an important job and it, rightly, should be well paid. The notion though that Irish teachers are so poorly treated that they don't have two pennies to rub together or that the work is more stressful than many other jobs is laughable. The conditions are generally great (unless you're in a particularly rough area), and teachers should acknowledge that, rather than taking the rest of us for fools.

No contradiction - there's shortages in key subjects like Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Home Ec, and languages, nationwide. There's shortages in nearly everything in the Dublin area. Some subject areas have a surplus so there's few jobs. People move from the private sector a lot of the time because they think like you that it's going to be easy for the money available - in my experience at least half pack it in for money reasons, myself included. Look, I couldn't be bothered arguing with people like you who have no experience or real knowledge of the job. The wages are unacceptable for me and so I have left. And there's plenty more like me. If you're confident the great conditions and good wages will ensure there's enough teachers in place then fair enough - the reality says otherwise though.

12-09-2019 5:36pm

paleoperson wrote: »

I'd be confident in my ability to teach the alphabet, not the past perfect as it's not a required part of the english language.

The Past Perfect: "I had seen the movie before I read the book."

You said a French teacher only needs to know French. You said teaching is the easiest job in the world. Surely you could teach a class the above.

12-09-2019 5:40pm

If you can't do that, then you can instead fill us in on what diets you'd put the rats on, and for how long etc. and what tests you'd be running afterwards, and what results and subsequent value might come from your dossy research.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 5:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Past Perfect: "I had seen the movie before I read the book."

You said a French teacher only needs to know French. You said teaching is the easiest job in the world. Surely you could teach a class the above.

Alright, a French teacher only needs to know French and a few formal grammatical rules that I'm sure they could pick up as they were going along. Once they had briefly studied the french book they were doing for the year they would be ready.

12-09-2019 5:52pm

paleoperson wrote: »

Alright, a French teacher only needs to know French and a few formal grammatical rules that I'm sure they could pick up as they were going along. Once they had briefly studied the french book they were doing for the year they would be ready.

You are so comically ignorant of what you profess to understand, you are incapable of realising just how absurd you sound.

I've taught for nearly a decade and I'd shlt a brick if I had to teach the alphabet right now to a class full of kids. I have never done that or taught younger that 6 years old. But you? "Ah, I could do that." Aye. You'd be grand for the first two minutes, and then what? When they're staring at you waiting for the next part of the lesson.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 6:16pm

Ads by Google now I have a legitimate question for you:

Are you a joke account? Are you really? A teacher who has such ridiculous debating or discussion ability and just engages in ad hominem over and over, trolls After Hours to try to get into arguments as I've seen you do so many times. Says they have genuine questions and then when the poster answers in a genuine way slams them with abuse. This has to be a joke, otherwise I'd have some fear for your students.

Also don't speak for other people please by saying things like "you sound", acting like other people are in any way, shape or form like you.

12-09-2019 6:31pm

No, I'm not a joke account. And they're not ad hominems. It's me saying you have no idea what you're talking about because you have no experience in the things you're talking about.

I, an experienced teacher, wouldn't know without some research how to teach the alphabet properly. You, with no experience, think you could do it fine. Yet, you don't offer any sort of plan. You think that because you know it, you can magically transfer that knowledge into the minds of others.

You just come across as someone who hated school. If you had even one teacher you respected and learnt more from, you'd understand how ridiculous your argument is. "A teacher just needs to know their subject."

Do you even entertain the idea that there are good teachers and bad teachers? They all know their subjects. Who would you want teaching your kids?

MrMusician18 · 12-09-2019 6:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No, I'm not a joke account. And they're not ad hominems. It's me saying you have no idea what you're talking about because you have no experience in the things you're talking about.

I, an experienced teacher, wouldn't know without some research how to teach the alphabet properly. You, with no experience, think you could do it fine. Yet, you don't offer any sort of plan. You think that because you know it, you can magically transfer that knowledge into the minds of others.

You just come across as someone who hated school. If you had even one teacher you respected and learnt more from, you'd understand how ridiculous your argument is. "A teacher just needs to know their subject."

Do you even entertain the idea that there are good teachers and bad teachers? They all know their subjects. Who would you want teaching your kids?

You're an experienced teacher doing TEFL, not in the Irish education system.

There is a world of difference between the two.

12-09-2019 6:50pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You're an experienced teacher doing TEFL, not in the Irish education system.

There is a world of difference between the two.

paleo said a French teacher just needs to know French. And he's sticking to it. I don't see how my particular experience changes my point at all.

MrMusician18 · 12-09-2019 6:50pm

Lailah Whining Thresher wrote: »

No contradiction - there's shortages in key subjects like Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Home Ec, and languages, nationwide. There's shortages in nearly everything in the Dublin area. Some subject areas have a surplus so there's few jobs. People move from the private sector a lot of the time because they think like you that it's going to be easy for the money available - in my experience at least half pack it in for money reasons, myself included. Look, I couldn't be bothered arguing with people like you who have no experience or real knowledge of the job. The wages are unacceptable for me and so I have left. And there's plenty more like me. If you're confident the great conditions and good wages will ensure there's enough teachers in place then fair enough - the reality says otherwise though.

It's not that they think it's going to be easier, they say that it IS easier. The one individual I mentioned sacrificed 10 years of progression in construction, where he commanded a wage in excess of €55k, to start again, at the bottom, as a teacher. He was under no illusion that he would have to go to the bottom of the ladder, but that lost earning opportunity vs his existing developed career was a price he was willing to pay for the easier life and the holidays - the perks of the job.

By the time it dawns on people just how handy teachers have it, it is simply not viable for them to essentially junk the career they have built to start teaching. So when people say "if you think teaching is so great, then why don't you do it", it's not an argument at all. If I could however swap my current job with teaching at point 12 on the permanent scale, then yeah, I,like most people in ordinary 9-5 jobs would jump at that.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 6:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You just come across as someone who hated school. If you had even one teacher you respected and learnt more from, you'd understand how ridiculous your argument is. "A teacher just needs to know their subject."

Well that's not true at all. I liked school... or at least disliked it less than most people, put it like that. I respected plenty of teachers and wasn't the type who hated school. So it seems you're not as enlightened as you thought you were.

12-09-2019 6:56pm

paleoperson wrote: »

Well that's not true at all. I liked school... or at least disliked it less than most people, put it like that. I respected plenty of teachers and wasn't the type who hated school.

I'm at a loss. You said teachers just need to know their subject, but now it sounds like there could be more to it. Something that earned your respect even.

Anyways, I'm out.

MrMusician18 · 12-09-2019 6:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

paleo said a French teacher just needs to know French. And he's sticking to it. I don't see how my particular experience changes my point at all.

A teacher of French needs to know French and how to teach which are both different skills.

A lot of people who go doing TEFL have very limited teaching training (if any at all) and don't have the skills to teach and thus find it very stressful and not as easy as they were expecting. I'd liken it to being told to go bus driving around Dublin having never sat behind the wheel of a vehicle before.

paleoperson · 12-09-2019 7:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm at a loss. You said teachers just need to know their subject, but now it sounds like there could be more to it. Something that earned your respect even.

Anyways, I'm out.

Because they are likeable and interesting people, and for some subjects like history or science knew their subject very well. Very little to do with teacher training.

Also it's not like they're filtering out the bad teachers. It's like picking straws which one you're going to get. You know French or the Science syllabus backwards and forwards and you're set.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A teacher of French needs to know French and how to teach which are both different skills.

A lot of people who go doing TEFL have very limited teaching training (if any at all) and don't have the skills to teach and thus find it very stressful and not as easy as they were expecting. I'd liken it to being told to go bus driving around Dublin having never sat behind the wheel of a vehicle before.

A better analogy to me seems more like taxi-driving or multi-drop driving when you are only familiar with personal driving. I'm sure it takes a while to get good, but at the end of the day it's the same game.

r93kaey5p2izun · 12-09-2019 7:11pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not that they think it's going to be easier, they say that it IS easier. The one individual I mentioned sacrificed 10 years of progression in construction, where he commanded a wage in excess of €55k, to start again, at the bottom, as a teacher. He was under no illusion that he would have to go to the bottom of the ladder, but that lost earning opportunity vs his existing developed career was a price he was willing to pay for the easier life and the holidays - the perks of the job.

By the time it dawns on people just how handy teachers have it, it is simply not viable for them to essentially junk the career they have built to start teaching. So when people say "if you think teaching is so great, then why don't you do it", it's not an argument at all. If I could however swap my current job with teaching at point 12 on the permanent scale, then yeah, I,like most people in ordinary 9-5 jobs would jump at that.

You clearly have your mind made up. You think you know it all. But I am a person who left an established career and became a teacher for 12 years. I am who you are talking about. I have actual experience while you rely on second hand information. Retraining is perfect viable, thousands do it. It's not unusual at all. But I'm sticking with the money and perks in the private sector, and teaching for better money when it suits me. The job is really not what you think it is. The permanent jobs with no applicants despite several hundred graduates every year is testament to that.

Treppen · 12-09-2019 9:39pm

paleoperson wrote: »

I told you, you need to go to a third level institution and try to work your way in that way. As already clarified getting the job is not easy, but the "research" itself is.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be smart with me or not, you're showing a major lack of knowledge in multiple ways.

You'll have to be a bit more specific... have you got an ad or job spec or something... something?

There's a 'major lack' of substance to this rat feeding cushy number claim.

Treppen · 12-09-2019 9:46pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's not that they think it's going to be easier, they say that it IS easier. The one individual I mentioned sacrificed 10 years of progression in construction, where he commanded a wage in excess of €55k, to start again, at the bottom, as a teacher. He was under no illusion that he would have to go to the bottom of the ladder, but that lost earning opportunity vs his existing developed career was a price he was willing to pay for the easier life and the holidays - the perks of the job.

By the time it dawns on people just how handy teachers have it, it is simply not viable for them to essentially junk the career they have built to start teaching. So when people say "if you think teaching is so great, then why don't you do it", it's not an argument at all. If I could however swap my current job with teaching at point 12 on the permanent scale, then yeah, I,like most people in ordinary 9-5 jobs would jump at that.

So you reckon it only becomes cushy at point 12?

Advice: Become a teacher

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