Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 6:19pm

Boggles wrote: »

Actually there is a thriving legal industry at the moment in fast tracking Visa's for Non Eu citizens to get them into the tech jobs.

Oh yes well aware.....

So if anyone son or daughter has a degree and can’t get a job I would not be blaming some poor farmer.....

02-07-2019 6:26pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Oh yes well aware.....

So if anyone son or daughter has a degree and can’t get a job I would not be blaming some poor farmer.....

Yer man can be described many ways but poor is certainly not one of them. :pac:

Id love to inherit a decent spread in North Kildare.

McDermotX · 02-07-2019 7:35pm

Stick it to 'em, Tommy !

Venom · 02-07-2019 7:59pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Yer man can be described many ways but poor is certainly not one of them.

Id love to inherit a decent spread in North Kildare.

From watching the documentary last night, it sure didn't look like he was living the life of Riley! I get why he's fúcking around with Intel at this point considering what was done to him but he is kinda risking future jobs at this point not to mention life is to short. I do think a formal investigation needs to be done to see if any brown envelops or other dodgy shít went on between Intel and the IDA.

Gael23 · 02-07-2019 8:01pm

He strikes me as an unfortunate backward farmer who is against anything progressive or indeed any form of change.

Galwayguy35 · 02-07-2019 8:23pm

Sounds like the suits though they could flash the cash at a man they assumed was a bit harmless and make an easy sale.

There's an oul batchelor farmer like him in most areas, they are set in their ways and just want to be left alone to work their bit of land and look after their animals.

He seems to like his 80s music though!

elperello · 02-07-2019 8:25pm

Indeed.
We moved on.
He stayed put.
Whose tragedy?

Tuco88 · 02-07-2019 8:43pm

I was most surprised by his taste in music, I didnt expect it... he bolted to the radio like a kid on christmas morning...

I was in stitches when the tune started, good choice too ha

Oh we're not gonna take it
No, we ain't gonna take it
Oh we're not gonna take it anymore…

Era fair play to him.

02-07-2019 8:55pm

I have no problem with him not selling. It's his land. However objecting to intels plans is just being a bo11ix.

It's grand for him with land worth a load of money he did nothing to earn and no family to support or mortgage to pay. Selfish bastard.

I'm from a rural area and there are plenty of similar thick farmers where I grew up. Many wouldn't take grants because they would have to pay taxes on them.

Plenty of work now in Ireland but things can change very quickly. I remember near 20% unemployment back in the 80s.

Boggles · 02-07-2019 8:59pm

Gael23 wrote: »

He strikes me as an unfortunate backward farmer who is against anything progressive or indeed any form of change.

Or a guy that was just minding his own business who a state body tried to rob..

Mrsmum · 02-07-2019 9:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no problem with him not selling. It's his land. However objecting to intels plans is just being a bo11ix.

It's grand for him with land worth a load of money he did nothing to earn and no family to support or mortgage to pay. Selfish bastard.

I'm from a rural area and there are plenty of similar thick farmers where I grew up. Many wouldn't take grants because they would have to pay taxes on them.

Plenty of work now in Ireland but things can change very quickly. I remember near 20% unemployment back in the 80s.

He isn't holding anyone responsible for his own lifestyle choices but some people seem to be holding him responsible for theirs. When others are cuddled up with their families every night, he is alone. Different strokes for different folks but each must own their own choices. He seems content with his choices & is not responsible for anyone's mortgage or family.

whisky_galore · 02-07-2019 9:44pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no problem with him not selling. It's his land. However objecting to intels plans is just being a bo11ix.

It's grand for him with land worth a load of money he did nothing to earn and no family to support or mortgage to pay. Selfish bastard.

I'm from a rural area and there are plenty of similar thick farmers where I grew up. Many wouldn't take grants because they would have to pay taxes on them.

Plenty of work now in Ireland but things can change very quickly. I remember near 20% unemployment back in the 80s.

People are born into or inherit farms. Just because the farm is worth a heap of money it doesn't follow heaps can be made working it. Asset rich, cash poor.

Not many start from scratch by buying a farm, unless they're completely loaded.

Unemployment or employment isn't his problem.

InTheShadows · 02-07-2019 10:01pm

Venom wrote: »

From watching the documentary last night, it sure didn't look like he was living the life of Riley! I get why he's fúcking around with Intel at this point considering what was done to him but he is kinda risking future jobs at this point not to mention life is to short. I do think a formal investigation needs to be done to see if any brown envelops or other dodgy shít went on between Intel and the IDA.

There's more to life than jobs and investment. You know maybe just maybe the man has something a lot of people in this boom and the celtic tiger years have forgotten and that's integrity.

If intel hadn't of acted the boll*x with him and have had made an offer i don't know to build a school for kids with special needs or a swimming pool or some such for the community he might have viewed things differently but they didn't along with the IDA they acted billy big boll*x and now they are where they are.

To some people still there's more to life than money thankfully,

Gael23 · 02-07-2019 10:19pm

I’m actually surprised he hasn’t been lynched out of the area

Plumbthedepths · 02-07-2019 10:22pm

Gael23 wrote:

Iâ€™m actually surprised he hasnâ€™t been lynched out of the area

Do you know what lynched means? As I have seen on this thread people purport to know him and claim he is liked in the area. Do you think someone should be hung in the name of progress?

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 10:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no problem with him not selling. It's his land. However objecting to intels plans is just being a bo11ix.

It's grand for him with land worth a load of money he did nothing to earn and no family to support or mortgage to pay. Selfish bastard.

I'm from a rural area and there are plenty of similar thick farmers where I grew up. Many wouldn't take grants because they would have to pay taxes on them.

Plenty of work now in Ireland but things can change very quickly. I remember near 20% unemployment back in the 80s.

Sounds like you suffer from a common illness in Ireland....begrudgery

The 80s is over 30 years ago and no relevance

Shefwedfan · 02-07-2019 10:41pm

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m actually surprised he hasn’t been lynched out of the area

Why would he be? Has anyone asked the people in the area?

Any opinion polls to say he is hated?

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 11:09pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

People are born into or inherit farms. Just because the farm is worth a heap of money it doesn't follow heaps can be made working it. Asset rich, cash poor.

Not many start from scratch by buying a farm, unless they're completely loaded.

Unemployment or employment isn't his problem.

Everyone has a stake in the success of the country. No man is an island and it would be near impossible to survive without the collective support of the state.

satguy · 02-07-2019 11:14pm

satguy wrote: »

How many new jobs is this man holding up ?
How much Tax would 4 or 5 hundred workers pay ?
How many of our graduate sons and daughters would love to work there ?
How can guys like him and the ones that held up the apple data center sleep at night ?

Can I Take back the Last line of my post I made earlier today. (only the last line)

I watched him on RTE tonight, and now feel it would unfair to lump him in with the wasters that cost Athenry to lose out on an €850 million data centre for Apple.

But am very happy to let the first 3 line of my earlier post stand.

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 11:15pm

InTheShadows wrote: »

There's more to life than jobs and investment. You know maybe just maybe the man has something a lot of people in this boom and the celtic tiger years have forgotten and that's integrity.

If intel hadn't of acted the boll*x with him and have had made an offer i don't know to build a school for kids with special needs or a swimming pool or some such for the community he might have viewed things differently but they didn't along with the IDA they acted billy big boll*x and now they are where they are.

To some people still there's more to life than money thankfully,

More to life than jobs or investment when you are secure.

However when your job depends on your employee being able to not just stay at the forefront of technology but also be allowed to develop facilities for producing it, your situation is more precarious. If Intel pull the plug, I'd dare your to stand at the gate and tell to the employees that. I'd say that would go down well.

Incidentally, I see EotR had thanked your post. Sure if there's more to life than work, I'm sure he won't be banging the drum for whatever group of unions are out on the pickets as he usually is.

ChikiChiki · 02-07-2019 11:18pm

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m actually surprised he hasn’t been lynched out of the area

There was recently a high profile murder case in the area. Them two bastards certainly deserved to be lynched.

However a farmer minding his own business out to protect his lands and way of life against corporate interests does not deserve a lynching.

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 11:20pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why would he be? Has anyone asked the people in the area?

Any opinion polls to say he is hated?

I don't think ipsos mrbi do local polls to see who is and isn't hated in a community.

MrMusician18 · 02-07-2019 11:23pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There was recently a high profile murder case in the area. Them two bastards certainly deserved to be lynched.

However a farmer minding his own business out to protect his lands and way of life against corporate interests does not deserve a lynching.

Hold on now. His lands are protected and his property rights have been vindicated in the court. The case is closed and no one is trying to get him of his farm. The objection related to a development that is not on his property, nor next to his property.

A decision is due from ABP on 16 October.

02-07-2019 11:47pm

If being robbed is being offered 10 million for land worth a fraction of that then please rob me.

The only begrudgers on here are the ones who begrudge Intel workers a job. The likes of him are the biggest begrudgers out there.

And the policies we are pursuing in this country pumping money into the non productive sector while punishing the hard working small people is leading us into a disaster.

This Mercosur deal will soften the cough of the likes of him. I could take the attitude too of fcuk the farmers - I don't work in the sector - but I'm not so thick that I can't see it will hurt the country.

end of the road · 03-07-2019 12:02am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

More to life than jobs or investment when you are secure.

However when your job depends on your employee being able to not just stay at the forefront of technology but also be allowed to develop facilities for producing it, your situation is more precarious. If Intel pull the plug, I'd dare your to stand at the gate and tell to the employees that. I'd say that would go down well.

Incidentally, I see EotR had thanked your post. Sure if there's more to life than work, I'm sure he won't be banging the drum for whatever group of unions are out on the pickets as he usually is.

i will always show solidarity and support to workers who are left with no option but to withdraw their labour.
the poster's point was that there is more to life then a situation where we ride ruffshot over the rights of the citizen in the creation of jobs.

johndaman66 · 03-07-2019 12:04am

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Fair enough, I'll admit I'm no scour expert. I just didn't think it fair to say the animals shown in the documentary were badly neglected. Did you think it odd when he covered the rabbit alluding to it being poisoned?

I didn't read too much into it at the time but now that you made me think about it more I suppose he was insinuating a conspiracy theory that the IDA/ Intel were poisoning the place.

What was your own take on it?

Boggles · 03-07-2019 9:01am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Hold on now. His lands are protected and his property rights have been vindicated in the court. The case is closed and no one is trying to get him of his farm.

How do you know that?

I'll give you a clue, you don't so stop stating it as a fact, it's very annoying.

Legislation was changed on the back of this case to give the IDA more powers to acquire land, if it went to court again under the new laws he would probably lose his farm.

Nobody knows what will happen in 5,10,15 years time.

Thomas Reid believes they will come again, and as the only person in this saga that has shown complete honesty and integrity I believe him.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

fryup · 03-07-2019 9:02am

What a bizzare docu-drama..never seen its like before.

Initially i thought it was an actor playing the part of TR but all the time it was actually him?

surely he's leaving himself open for ridicule in the way he was portrayed as a hermit farmer..not to mention robbery, very vulnerable.

Boggles · 03-07-2019 9:04am

fryup wrote: »

surely he's leaving himself open for ridicule in the way he was portrayed as a hermit farmer..not to mention robbery, very vulnerable.

He just spent 6-7 years dealing with an attempted robbery.

I'd say he will be grand.

mloc123 · 03-07-2019 9:14am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't think ipsos mrbi do local polls to see who is and isn't hated in a community.

Locally he is not disliked, most people would have supported his original case against CPO. However, the recent objection to the revised plans that do not include his land have soured that a bit.

Edgware · 03-07-2019 9:18am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't think ipsos mrbi do local polls to see who is and isn't hated in a community.

Why not?
The people demand a hate figure to blame for everything

ShlugEireann · 03-07-2019 9:46am

The obsession with jobs and economy is not good.

We are not in 2008 where we are desperate for work. Anyone who wants to work can work.

I was speaking to a construction company director recently and he was saying the new expansion in Intel is going to be bad for him.

The director told me they won't be able to find workers to carry out the projects they have lined up.

MrMusician18 · 03-07-2019 9:48am

Boggles wrote: »

How do you know that?

I'll give you a clue, you don't so stop stating it as a fact, it's very annoying.

Legislation was changed on the back of this case to give the IDA more powers to acquire land, if it went to court again under the new laws he would probably lose his farm.

Nobody knows what will happen in 5,10,15 years time.

Thomas Reid believes they will come again, and as the only person in this saga that has shown complete honesty and integrity I believe him.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

You can be honest and have integrity and still be wrong.

Indeed, no one knows what will happen in 10-15 years time. He won his challenge in the Supreme Court, so it was a point of constitutional law he won on. Now as far as I know, there has been no property rights referendum since he won, so the law hasn't changed. They can't take his land.

What is more likely is that if this is allowed to drag out, Intel will up sticks and go somewhere else less hassle and who would blame them?

MrMusician18 · 03-07-2019 9:52am

ShlugEireann wrote: »

The obsession with jobs and economy is not good.

We are not in 2008 where we are desperate for work. Anyone who wants to work can work.

I was speaking to a construction company director recently and he was saying the new expansion in Intel is going to be bad for him.

The director told me they won't be able to find workers to carry out the projects they have lined up.

Yeah, people being obsessed having and keeping a job to feed, clothe and house themselves is just terrible.
The government obsessed with keeping MNCs here so we can pay the wage increases that public servants demand is terrible.

We'd be all better off if the MNCs left and caused another recession and another crisis. :rolleyes:

ShlugEireann · 03-07-2019 10:07am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yeah, people being obsessed having and keeping a job to feed, clothe and house themselves is just terrible.
The government obsessed with keeping MNCs here so we can pay the wage increases that public servants demand is terrible.

We'd be all better off if the MNCs left and caused another recession and another crisis. :rolleyes:

As I said, anyone who wants a job can get one right now.

Not sure what more jobs brings tbh except increasing wealth inequality.

Cryptopagan · 03-07-2019 10:09am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yeah, people being obsessed having and keeping a job to feed, clothe and house themselves is just terrible.
The government obsessed with keeping MNCs here so we can pay the wage increases that public servants demand is terrible.

We'd be all better off if the MNCs left and caused another recession and another crisis. :rolleyes:

But right now we are running at close to full employment—there is actually a danger of the economy overheating—and we are short of construction workers, so why get worked up about this one project?

Mrsmum · 03-07-2019 10:14am

fryup wrote: »

surely he's leaving himself open for ridicule in the way he was portrayed as a hermit farmer..

It is a sad world if there is no space anymore for a bit of eccentricity, if we are all so up ourselves that we are offended to the point that we should ridicule the likes of TR or other "hermit farmers" like him. Besides he is not out to impress anyone mostly since he doesn't need anything from them. Those who know him accept him as he is and all the rest are just strangers whose opinions are irrelevant to him. Who knows, maybe he even shakes his head, in pity, at the way other people live their lives.

Boggles · 03-07-2019 10:32am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed, no one knows what will happen in 10-15 years time.

Great, glad you admit that. At least you can stop peddling "facts" so.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

He won his challenge in the Supreme Court, so it was a point of constitutional law he won on. Now as far as I know, there has been no property rights referendum since he won, so the law hasn't changed. They can't take his land

No he didn't. CPO's are based on the 1986 Industrial Development Act. They didn't fulfill the criteria, 5 Supreme Court Judges agreed.

Here is the new bill

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/1/

The public didn't get to vote on it.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is more likely is that if this is allowed to drag out, Intel will up sticks and go somewhere else less hassle and who would blame them?

I'd blame them, if they didn't try to pull a fast one with the IDA and just left Thomas Reid alone they would have their new plant by now.

So yeah blame goes solely to Intel and the IDA if that happens.

TBH I think we bend over enough for Multi Nationals in this country all ready, if that isn't good enough at this stage, good riddance.

threeball · 03-07-2019 11:16am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yeah, people being obsessed having and keeping a job to feed, clothe and house themselves is just terrible.
The government obsessed with keeping MNCs here so we can pay the wage increases that public servants demand is terrible.

We'd be all better off if the MNCs left and caused another recession and another crisis. :rolleyes:

You obviously work there seen as you're so worked up and adamant that everything most topple to sate the mighty intel and their poor minion workers who won't be able to find a job if their corporate daddy ups and runs.

Perhaps it would be better to get back to being productive and they might make a few quid.

marieholmfan · 03-07-2019 6:40pm

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Surely a question like that is rhetorical? Everyone in the country took cuts!

Thomas Reid didn't. He still has his 10 million euro farm.

Boggles · 03-07-2019 6:43pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Thomas Reid didn't. He still has his 10 million euro farm.

Well no, his farm to him is priceless.

It does not have a monetary value.

I know in 2019 that is a concept that people can't comprehend, but fúcking hell does it make me smile.

marieholmfan · 03-07-2019 6:48pm

Boggles wrote: »

Well no, his farm to him is priceless.

It does not have a monetary value.

I know in 2019 that is a concept that people can't comprehend, but fúcking hell does it make me smile.

Smile away but it's an answer to the question that was asked.
Thomas Reid has got his ten million euro farm.
Fergal Ward's family have their ten million euro farm.
The Supreme court have all got their ten million euro (and the rest).

This documentary is just propaganda for millionaires by millionaires about a millionaire.

jace_da_face · 03-07-2019 6:56pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Was listening to something on the radio yesterday about how in other countries the good of the nation and people trumps the worry of a few individuals when it comes to things like this.

Basically most countries just tell the people this is happening and you can do nothing about it.

It’s for the greater good.

These numpties are always complaining about something.

Nimbyisn at its finest and also a huge factor in the housing situation.

I think you are just talking about China.

The phrase 'not in my backyard' literally applies here. He is not objecting to some development down the road. He is objecting to his own land been taken. Do you think it is acceptable that Trump attempts to privatize oil-rich Native American reserves? Or that the Brazilian Federal Government bulldoze tribes off rain forest lands?

Where do we draw the line on private property ownership rights in this country. Do we just bend over for the multinationals and let them bulldoze our citizens?

For the record, I am set dead against what happened in Athenry with Apple. The community wanted it. No one was driven off their land. Yet objectors, some of who didn't even live in the county, blocked it. Now that is NIMBYism.

Call me Al · 03-07-2019 7:10pm

jace_da_face wrote: »

I think you are just talking about China.

The phrase 'not in my backyard' literally applies here. He is not objecting to some development down the road. He is objecting to his own land been taken. Do you think it is acceptable that Trump attempts to privatize oil-rich Native American reserves? Or that the Brazilian Federal Government bulldoze tribes off rain forest lands?

Where do we draw the line on private property ownership rights in this country. Do we just bend over for the multinationals and let them bulldoze our citizens?

For the record, I am set dead against what happened in Athenry with Apple. The community wanted it. No one was driven off their land. Yet objectors, some of who didn't even live in the county, blocked it. Now that is NIMBYism.

Yet again...
He is currently not objecting to anything on his land.
He is quite literally currently objecting to something down the road, or more accurately across the road. Kellystown Lane to be exact and I'd estimate about 3/4 km or more from his farmyard.

The development they have applied for doesn't even touch his property.
He won his case, and rightly so. But this proposed development does not involve putting one foot or tyre on his property.

jace_da_face · 03-07-2019 7:15pm

Call me Al wrote: »

Yet again...
He is currently not objecting to anything on his land.
He is quite literally currently objecting to something down the road, or more accurately across the road. Kellystown Lane to be exact and I'd estimate about 3/4 km or more from his farmyard.

The development they have applied for doesn't even touch his property.
He won his case, and rightly so. But this proposed development does not involve putting one foot or tyre on his property.

Well my comments were relating more to the view that his land ought to be CPO'd. I wasn't really aware that he is lodging planning objections. That is a different matter.

Galwayguy35 · 03-07-2019 7:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If being robbed is being offered 10 million for land worth a fraction of that then please rob me.

The only begrudgers on here are the ones who begrudge Intel workers a job. The likes of him are the biggest begrudgers out there.

And the policies we are pursuing in this country pumping money into the non productive sector while punishing the hard working small people is leading us into a disaster.

This Mercosur deal will soften the cough of the likes of him. I could take the attitude too of fcuk the farmers - I don't work in the sector - but I'm not so thick that I can't see it will hurt the country.

So if planners came to your house and told you that it needed to be demolished to make way for a new bypass or ring road that would ease traffic congestion I'm assuming you would have no problem with it?

Good of the community and all that, yeah?

Poor Uncle Tom · 03-07-2019 7:19pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Thomas Reid didn't. He still has his 10 million euro farm.

Everyone who chose to stay, work and live in Ireland during the recession took cuts. Most taxpayers saw their income drop 13% during the crisis. No taxpayer was exempt.

His farm may as well be worth 10 euros as 10 million, it's not for sale so that money will never be realised during his lifetime, so NO he doesn't have 10 million euros.

I often heard that greed is a blinker to reality but it's the first time I've seen an example of it.

Mrsmum · 03-07-2019 7:53pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So if planners came to your house and told you that it needed to be demolished to make way for a new bypass or ring road that would ease traffic congestion I'm assuming you would have no problem with it?

Good of the community and all that, yeah?

It would be a nearer comparison to say how would people like to have their dream home and their dream job cpo'ed from them. It's not just his home but his job as well. There is no where else he'd rather be or nothing else he'd rather be doing.

Regarding the current objections, he is probably paranoid now and completely distrustful of Intel's intensions. Living for years with the stress and worry of losing it all to them tends to do that to a person. They are at least partly responsible for the problem he is to them now.

Seth Brundle · 03-07-2019 10:50pm

Gael23 wrote: »

I’m actually surprised he hasn’t been lynched out of the area

Christ almighty, some people really have no idea of what life should be about!

fryup · 04-07-2019 9:21am

fryup wrote: »

surely he's leaving himself open for ridicule in the way he was portrayed as a hermit farmer..not to mention robbery, very vulnerable.

Boggles wrote: »

He just spent 6-7 years dealing with an attempted robbery.

I'd say he will be grand.

yeah i know, but i'm talking about thugs out there who might see him as an easy target

Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

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