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Salisbury nerve agent attack a false flag/decoy operation?
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jimmycrackcorm wrote: »Your attempts to twist the facts just make the anti western agenda all the more transparent.
My eyes are wide open I saw what happened in days and weeks after this incident.0 -
The investigation into the case - poisoned on the third attempt
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/key-findings-who-killed-alexander-litvinenko-how-and-why
So it three times not seven times?
Information that is not verified this just speculation from what I can gather. How do they know this if he wasn't taken to hospital with sickness? Did the Russians tell them they tried to poison him three times? What the source to verify these attempts on Litvinenko life earlier?
Anyway, this information is irrelevant because when he was poisoned. Only two men had p-210 on their bodies.Mario is a suspect he has to be because you don't have above normal traces unless you too had contact with p-210.0 -
Cheerful Spring wrote: »
Information that is not verified.
It's based on the investigation and public inquiry. There is no requirement to be verified by internet users.
It's a pity, Litvinenko was just about to testify about links between Russian government officials and the Russian mafia0 -
It's based on the investigation and public inquiry. There is no requirement to be verified by internet users.
It's a pity, Litvinenko was just about to testify about links between Russian government officials and the Russian mafia
That made no sense so you have no interest learning about the details of this investigation online? So you read an article in the Guardian, it shut case for you now? So you don't care about errors that could have got overlooked? Remember the UK judicial system convicted innocent men during the IRA campaign in the UK.0 -
Cheerful Spring wrote: »That made no senseSo it three times not seven times?Rubbish
As repeated many times, lack of understanding of something is not a valid argument against it0 -
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Do you question e.g. the number of Soviet POW deaths during the Holocaust, or do you just single out the Jewish figures?
Wait just one moment.
Are you trying to include Soviet POW's within the numbers of the Holocaust?
How many Soviet prisoners of war were gassed to death at Belsen, Treblinka, Buchenwald, Dachau, Sobibor, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbruck, Madjanek, Chelmno, AUSCHWITZ, Birkenau?
How many?
Since the plaques at Auschwitz reported 4 million murdered between 1940 and 1945, I'm wondering how many USSR citizens were killed in these death camps considering the Red Army didn't cross into Poland until late 1944.
Why would there be Soviet POW's in Nazi extermination camps?
That's like asking how many Chinese civilians died in the Holocaust even though millions were butchered by the Japanes over the course of 15 years.
What kind of question are you asking?0 -
He was a double agent. He outed over 300 Russian intelligence officers. He was continuing to give intelligence to the UK and other nations. Putin has spoken very frankly about how he views "betrayal".
In 2006 they basically granted themselves legal permission to kill "extremists", several months later they poisoned Litvinenko (another spy) with Polonium. It's not like this hasn't happened before.
Do you have the names of those he exposed?
If there are 300, like you say, there must be at least 30 or 40 names available.
And if you don't have their names then surely you have a source whereby it is deemed that he continued to expose agents.
With THAT is mind....if Skripal was so valuable in ratting out hundreds of Russian spies then he must have been a VERY valuable asset indeed. So why wasn't he living under an armed guard with massive military protection instead of in some non-descript red-bricked terraced pigsty in the middle of nowhere?
Keeping up appearances? Making it LOOK like he was just a bloke who went to Wetherspoon's and then the bookies and then the chipper?
It's almost 2 months since these two were allegedly poisoned. It's almost 1 month since they were declared alive and doing just fine and not a word or a photograph from them.
Would that be another "breach of national security"?
I don't care how you want to frame this farce. It's a joke and it is even an insult to the intelligence of those who would believe ANYTHING.
But it is enjoyable watching the whole pantomime unfold. The more time goes by the dumber the BOJO and Teresa May fools look.0 -
I'm sorry, I thought I was clear
What you are doing is a form of holocaust denial.
You are not "questioning". You are repeating tired arguments from holocaust deniers without critical thought.
For example your argument about the numbers from Auschwitz is easily debunked by looking up where those numbers come from.
It is obvious you have not done this and instead subscribe to the nonsense conspiracy that all historians are complicit in inflating the number of people who died.
This is holocaust denial in my eyes and in the eyes of historians and in the law.
So yea, you're a holocaust denier whether you like that label or not.
If you don't like that label, don't claim parts of the holocaust didn't happen based on crap you heard in a YouTube video or read in a David Irving book.
No it is not!0 -
I'm sorry, I thought I was clear
What you are doing is a form of holocaust denial.
You are not "questioning". You are repeating tired arguments from holocaust deniers without critical thought.
For example your argument about the numbers from Auschwitz is easily debunked by looking up where those numbers come from.
It is obvious you have not done this and instead subscribe to the nonsense conspiracy that all historians are complicit in inflating the number of people who died.
This is holocaust denial in my eyes and in the eyes of historians and in the law.
So yea, you're a holocaust denier whether you like that label or not.
If you don't like that label, don't claim parts of the holocaust didn't happen based on crap you heard in a YouTube video or read in a David Irving book.
I told you to choose your words VERY carefully when leveling insults at others.
And it appears that that advice has skipped over you.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denialNo it is not!Holocaust denial often includes the following claims: that Nazi Germany's Final Solution was aimed only at deporting Jews from the Reich, but that it did not include the extermination of Jews; that Nazi authorities did not use extermination camps and gas chambers to mass murder Jews; or that the actual number of Jews killed was significantly lower than the historically accepted figure of 5 to 6 million, typically around a tenth of that figure.[2][3][4]
Scholars use the term denial to describe the views and methodology of Holocaust deniers in order to distinguish them from legitimate historical revisionists, who challenge orthodox interpretations of history using established historical methodologies.[5] Holocaust deniers generally do not accept denial as an appropriate description of their activities, and use the euphemism revisionism instead.[6] The methodologies of Holocaust deniers are often based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary.[7]
Most Holocaust deniers claim, either explicitly or implicitly, that the Holocaust is a hoax – or at best an exaggeration – arising from a deliberate Jewish conspiracy designed to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other people.[8] For this reason, Holocaust denial is generally considered to be an antisemitic[9] conspiracy theory.[10]
Unfortunately, it is a form of holocaust denial.
You are denying a part of the holocaust happened and you are basing this on propaganda you have swallowed uncritically.
If you really were just "questioning" then a cursory google search would show that the first bit of reasoning you've presented is utter crap.
So either you are denying reality and actual historical research as a vast global conspiracy. Or you've never tried to investigate the idea yourself.
If you don't like being called a holocaust denier, maybe don't deny the holocaust and repeat propaganda.0 -
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Yup, when they had in their custody he wasn't giving UK and other countries intelligence. They also used him as collateral for a spy swap. Actually they didn't want to hand him over but the UK insisted
Putin has no real opposition in Russia, a meek press, a sycophantic parliament - there are few mechanisms to hold Putin (and his cronies) to account, the biggest threat they face are spies, double agents and whistle-blowers (e.g.exposing the national doping)
Killing a spy with Polonium or a specific Russian nerve agent sends a particular message - the Russian state can murder anyone, anywhere, leave a trademark and do it with impunity
A pretty strong message. Anyone thinking of spilling secrets will think twice.
What a fucking stupid statement.
It's as dumb as saying "Guantanamo! Anyone thinking of resisting American slaughter will think again!"
Did CID, or MI5 torturing IRA operatives or their families make them all "think twice"?
Did British troops raping women make the Mau-Mau say "fcuk, we better stop. These lads are bad news!"
Did the threat of death or torture EVER stop anyone? Are you backward or something?
When did a spy EVER decide that he or she ought to not continue because another was killed?
Are you MAD?
"Oh, FCUK, I better stop being a spy, I might get killed."
:pac:0 -
The UK government generally used the term "highly likely"
In one interview Boris Johnson didn't
So this is false
No contradictions. And their findings were backed up by the OPCW.
Didn't affect Putin in the slightest - in fact he got his highest result to date
Random guesswork and personal assumptions
I find it generally, highly likely that Elvis was in Glastonbury last year or maybe not. But I have high confidence that my sources, who will remain unnamed at this time, have provided mostly verifiable proof of the event.
Next question.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
Unfortunately, it is a form of holocaust denial.
You are denying a part of the holocaust happened and you are basing this on propaganda you have swallowed uncritically.
If you really were just "questioning" then a cursory google search would show that the first bit of reasoning you've presented is utter crap.
So either you are denying reality and actual historical research as a vast global conspiracy. Or you've never tried to investigate the idea yourself.
If you don't like being called a holocaust denier, maybe don't deny the holocaust and repeat propaganda.
Are you attempting to paint me into a corner and shut me up, King Mob?
I'm allowed to add and substract.
I'm also allowed to question what I am told.
If you want to take that right away from me then I will either see you in court or in a boxing ring. You will not cow me, no matter how many printed definitions you would like to churn out.
Your tricks are cheap and they are cowardly and they won't work on me. I don't wilt under accusations of anti-semitism. OK?
I've already reported you to moderators for your multiple slurs. How they deal with that is their prerogative.
If you wish to drum up some quasi-definition of a Holocaust denier just because you think I fit that bill then it behoves you to man up and generate a few more definitions of someone who doesn't swallow everything they're told..
You think I am a Holocaust denier because I question the numbers?
Tell me what you would call someone who still thinks 100,000 civilians were killed in Iraq as opposed to 1.6 million.
Are they deniers? Or do they just not like "body counts"?
Like I already stated to you...a fact that you seem not to like to digest.....the death toll at Auschwitz was reduced from 4 million to 1.1 million yet 6 million are still the number dead.
Does that make me a Holocaust denier or you just a person who:
a: Can't do simple arithmetic?
or
b: Is terrified of being called names?
Ask a 8 year old, and then call that child a Holocaust denier.0 -
No, you are not "questioning the numbers". You are repeating an argument you have found on the internet that is spread by racist propaganda.You think I am a Holocaust denier because I question the numbers?
You have never actually looked into the information and you are just parroting it without critical thought.
This makes you a holocaust denier.
Ok.Like I already stated to you...a fact that you seem not to like to digest.....the death toll at Auschwitz was reduced from 4 million to 1.1 million yet 6 million are still the number dead.
Ask a 8 year old, and then call that child a Holocaust denier.
Who first claimed it was 4 million? When?
When was it reduced to 1.1 million? By who? Why?
Where does the figure of 6 million come from? How is it broken down? Does it rely on 1.1 million deaths at Auschwitz or 4 million?
If you had actually done any research, you could easily answer these questions, and you would know why your claim is nonsense.0 -
Wait just one moment.
Are you trying to include Soviet POW's within the numbers of the Holocaust?
How many Soviet prisoners of war were gassed to death at Belsen, Treblinka, Buchenwald, Dachau, Sobibor, Sachsenhausen, Ravensbruck, Madjanek, Chelmno, AUSCHWITZ, Birkenau?
How many?
Since the plaques at Auschwitz reported 4 million murdered between 1940 and 1945, I'm wondering how many USSR citizens were killed in these death camps considering the Red Army didn't cross into Poland until late 1944.
Why would there be Soviet POW's in Nazi extermination camps?
That's like asking how many Chinese civilians died in the Holocaust even though millions were butchered by the Japanes over the course of 15 years.
What kind of question are you asking?
Open a thread on it
Maybe a mod can split this thread? - it's going to get ugly, but at least this stuff will get dealt with0 -
Do you have the names of those he exposed?
If there are 300, like you say
The number I read was 300And if you don't have their names then surely you have a source whereby it is deemed that he continued to expose agents.
He was continuing to expose infoWith THAT is mind....if Skripal was so valuable in ratting out hundreds of Russian spies then he must have been a VERY valuable asset indeed.
I don't think it was purely spies.. gru officers, agents, intelligence officers, etcSo why wasn't he living under an armed guard with massive military protection instead of in some non-descript red-bricked terraced pigsty in the middle of nowhere?
Because he was released by Russia in a swap. Although with the sheer amount of people that Russia murders, perhaps he should have been put under better protection.It's almost 2 months since these two were allegedly poisoned. It's almost 1 month since they were declared alive and doing just fine and not a word or a photograph from them.
Why would there be? they were just poisoned with a nerve agent - someone wants them dead. According to latest info they are in safe locationsI don't care how you want to frame this farce.
I'm only interested in the facts/info.. not trying to distort the event to fit a warped view of the world0 -
King Mob and Dohnjoe,
You are deliberately attempting to provoke me.
You've had your fun.
Now can we get back to the topic at hand?0 -
The number I read was 300
He was continuing to expose info
I don't think it was purely spies.. gru officers, agents, intelligence officers, etc
Because he was released by Russia in a swap. Although with the sheer amount of people that Russia murders, perhaps he should have been put under better protection.
Why would there be? they were just poisoned with a nerve agent - someone wants them dead. According to latest info they are in safe locations
I'm only interested in the facts/info.. not trying to distort the event to fit a warped view of the world
You say you are only interested in facts. Everything you type is peppered with "likely", "probably", "I think", "Ive read [with no sources}", "given the XYZ", "according to latest info....."
This is nothing other than the same litany of vague, non-information that has been spewed out for 2 months.
Again you say that they were poisoned by a "nerve agent", one that can't be identified or will not be made known. Your excuse is always the same....the Russians will tamper with it or they will kill Yulia or they will do this that and the other. And you cling to this weak position and expect the rest of the world to believe that you have nothing to hide?
IF the alleged attempt on Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal is so positively the work of Russians, using a chemical substance created in Russia, carried and delivered from Russia to the UK and administered to the two aforementioned victims, under the orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin .... all of the above of which has been stated and is provable by the UK then why can't we see any evidence or proof of this?
Why is ironclad proof that Putin ordered an assassination on Sergei Skripal using the substance that they are saying was administered, not shown to the public? Why?
If you have proof that the Russians conducted this murder attempt then why hide this proof? Surely you would want to show the world that your reasons for kicking out a bunch of Russian diplomats and calling for more sanctions was indeed completely without a shred of doubt and surely you would want to convince other NATO members such as Portugal and Austria and Greece that their doubts were ill-founded.
Surely you would want EVERY country in the world to kick out a Russian diplomat and close their embassy if you had such solid proof. Why not show it and lay to rest any doubt?0 -
Open a thread on it
Maybe a mod can split this thread? - it's going to get ugly, but at least this stuff will get dealt with
Open a thread on what exactly?
You seem to like dwelling on Holocaust denial which has nothing to do with this thread.
Now you accuse others of derailing despite your thanks and contributions to irrelevant topics?0 -
Yo usay you are only interested in facts. Everything you type is peppered with "likely", "probably", "I think", "Ive read [with no sources}", "given the XYZ", "according to latest info....."
Semantics and wordplayAgain you say that they were poisoned by a "nerve agent", one that can't be identified or will not be made known.
Identified as NovichokIF the alleged attempt on Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal is so positively the work of Russians, using a chemical substance created in Russia, carried and delivered from Russia to the UK and administered to the two aforementioned victims, under the orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin .... all of the above of which has been stated and is provable by the UK
Nope. According to repeated UK statements on the issue it's "highly likely" the Kremlin was involved.then why can't we see any evidence or proof of this?
Because we're not entitled to all private or national intelligence. There's also strong international consensus on this. It's not like it's purely unilateral.
Also it's not like this hasn't happened in the past. It's highly consistent with Moscow's recent activitiesWhy is ironclad proof that Putin ordered an assassination on Sergei Skripal using the substance that they are saying was administered, not shown to the public? Why?
Almost impossible to prove a link with Putin. In the case of Livinenko - Putin just sheltered the accused Russians, refused extradition. Doesn't matter how damning the case, he can protect the suspects and therefore protect himselfIf you have proof that the Russians conducted this murder attempt then why hide this proof?
They don't want to put their sources at risk. They don't want to put other countries sources at risk.Surely you would want to show the world that your reasons for kicking out a bunch of Russian diplomats and calling for more sanctions was indeed completely without a shred of doubt and surely you would want to convince other NATO members such as Portugal and Austria and Greece that their doubts were ill-founded.
They can kick out diplomats based on the high likeliness of Kremlin involvement. It's also action based not just on this incident, but a long history of incidents stretching back at least 10 years.Surely you would want EVERY country in the world to kick out a Russian diplomat and close their embassy if you had such solid proof. Why not show it and lay to rest any doubt?
In this particular case, it's not needed, except by conspiracy theorists. Russian credibility is currently at almost zero. Likewise conspiracy theorists demanded "proof" that Bin Laden was dead (despite all the circumstantial evidence supporting the fact that he died). They aren't going to release info based on the needs of a handful of conspiracy theorists - who will just dismiss it anyway0 -
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No, you are not "questioning the numbers". You are repeating an argument you have found on the internet that is spread by racist propaganda.
You have never actually looked into the information and you are just parroting it without critical thought.
This makes you a holocaust denier.
Ok.
Who first claimed it was 4 million? When?
When was it reduced to 1.1 million? By who? Why?
Where does the figure of 6 million come from? How is it broken down? Does it rely on 1.1 million deaths at Auschwitz or 4 million?
If you had actually done any research, you could easily answer these questions, and you would know why your claim is nonsense.
I'm going to try something here. I'm going to ask you to either leave the whole subject of the figures killed in the Holocaust as a side note and we can get back to the Salisbury affair, OR, you can continue to call me a Holocaust denier and report me to moderators for being such.
You could go one step further and illustrate exactly how my doubts about the numbers murdered in the Holocaust are purely the stuff of anti-semites and could only be gleaned from racist, neo-nazi or white power or some other knucklehead propaganda websites.
Do that please. It would be most appreciated. The discussion on the Skripal farce shall be waiting for you when you get back.
I won't be drawn any further on your Holocaust denier ruse.0 -
Yes, your claim is purely the stuff of racist propaganda. You may continue to defend it here:I'm going to try something here. I'm going to ask you to either leave the whole subject of the figures killed in the Holocaust as a side note and we can get back to the Salisbury affair, OR, you can continue to call me a Holocaust denier and report me to moderators for being such.
You could go one step further and illustrate exactly how my doubts about the numbers murdered in the Holocaust are purely the stuff of anti-semites and could only be gleaned from racist, neo-nazi or white power or some other knucklehead propaganda websites.
Do that please. It would be most appreciated. The discussion on the Skripal farce shall be waiting for you when you get back.
I won't be drawn any further on your Holocaust denier ruse.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106894808#post1068948080 -
Semantics and wordplay
Identified as Novichok
Nope. According to repeated UK statements on the issue it's "highly likely" the Kremlin was involved.
Because we're not entitled to all private or national intelligence. There's also strong international consensus on this. It's not like it's purely unilateral.
Also it's not like this hasn't happened in the past. It's highly consistent with Moscow's recent activities
Almost impossible to prove a link with Putin. In the case of Livinenko - Putin just sheltered the accused Russians, refused extradition. Doesn't matter how damning the case, he can protect the suspects and therefore protect himself
They don't want to put their sources at risk. They don't want to put other countries sources at risk.
They can kick out diplomats based on the high likeliness of Kremlin involvement. It's also action based not just on this incident, but a long history of incidents stretching back at least 10 years.
In this particular case, it's not needed, except by conspiracy theorists. Russian credibility is currently at almost zero. Likewise conspiracy theorists demanded "proof" that Bin Laden was dead (despite all the circumstantial evidence supporting the fact that he died). They aren't going to release info based on the needs of a handful of conspiracy theorists - who will just dismiss it anyway
You're not very good at this are you?
In one breath you complain about semantics and in the next you say it's "highly likely" the Kremlin was involved.
Now if you were a judge and a lawyer said to you "Your Honour, it's 'highly likely' that the guy sitting in the dock did it", what would you say to that lawyer?
Would you say "Thank you counsellor. Jury, I instruct you to find the defendant guilty", or would you say "Thank you counsellor. Now get the fcuk out of my courtroom. Prosecution, you have 48 hours to find a competent questioner or this case is dismissed and you are all disbarred!"?
Seems the former is how you are leaning.0 -
you say it's "highly likely" the Kremlin was involved.
To repeat. The UK government believes it is "highly likely" the Kremlin was involved. They have stated this several times. Bar a Boris interview - that's been the general line from the UK gov
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/theresa-may-says-highly-likely-russia-is-responsible-for-spys-poisoning/2018/03/12/7baa6d22-25f4-11e8-a227-fd2b009466bc_story.html?utm_term=.32cdb43efae80 -
Everyone cut out the bickering for the love of Yahweh.
Out of interest for the disputed terms, Holocaust Denial is defined by many groups to be by and large the same tenets,
The Southern Poverty Law Center defines it very aptly,Project Aladin wrote:Holocaust denial is the belief that the Holocaust did not occur as it is described by mainstream historiography.
Key elements of this belief are the explicit or implicit rejection that, in the Holocaust:
The Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting the Jews and the Gypsies for extermination as a people;
Between five and six million Jews were systematically killed by the Nazis and their allies.
Tools of efficient mass extermination, such as gas chambers, were used in extermination camps to kill Jews.
Which sounds a lot like the noise on this thread I just read through and reviewed.Deniers of the Holocaust, the systematic murder of around 6 million Jews in World War II, either deny that such a genocide took place or minimize its extent. These groups (and individuals) often cloak themselves in the sober language of serious scholarship, call themselves “historical revisionists” instead of deniers, and accuse their critics of trying to squelch open-minded inquiries into historical truth.
This should conclude any further discussion of the Holocaust here. Please resume the topic: Salisbury nerve agent attack [false flag?]. Thanks.0 -
Everyone cut out the bickering for the love of Yahweh.
Out of interest for the disputed terms, Holocaust Denial is defined by many groups to be by and large the same tenets,
The Southern Poverty Law Center defines it very aptly,
Which sounds a lot like the noise on this thread I just read through and reviewed.
This should conclude any further discussion of the Holocaust here. Please resume the topic: Salisbury nerve agent attack [false flag?]. Thanks.
How convenient.
When valid questions are asked, besmirch the questioner rather than answer the question.
When one asks how a passport can survive temperatures exceeding 2000F, don't answer that question. Instead call the questioner a person whose apparel includes tinfoil headwear.
Orwellian, to be sure.0 -
How convenient.
When valid questions are asked, besmirch the questioner rather than answer the question.
When one asks how a passport can survive temperatures exceeding 2000F, don't answer that question. Instead call the questioner a person whose apparel includes tinfoil headwear.
Orwellian, to be sure.
I didn't create the definition. And frankly, you fall into it, much again by the SPLC definition: "accuse their critics of trying to squelch open-minded inquiries into historical truth," ("Besmirch the questioner rather than the question ... Orwellian, to be sure").
How you deal with the label is up to you. As I've told you separately, this is the end of the Holocaust derailment portion of this thread. This being the conspiracy theories forum we expect people to have a thick skin to basic labels about the practices of conspiratorial skepticism. 9/11 skeptics already have the label of Truthers and they don't take offense to it all that much. If you have further comments about this contact me by PM: any and all subsequent posts on this thread should only be about the nerve agent attack.0 -
I didn't create the definition. And frankly, you fall into it, much again by the SPLC definition: "accuse their critics of trying to squelch open-minded inquiries into historical truth," ("Besmirch the questioner rather than the question ... Orwellian, to be sure").
How you deal with the label is up to you. As I've told you separately, this is the end of the Holocaust derailment portion of this thread. This being the conspiracy theories forum we expect people to have a thick skin to basic labels about the practices of conspiratorial skepticism. 9/11 skeptics already have the label of Truthers and they don't take offense to it all that much. If you have further comments about this contact me by PM: any and all subsequent posts on this thread should only be about the nerve agent attack.
Very well.
The Skripals are now returned to perfect health, or are they? And yet not a word from them. Not a photograph? Nothing.
The Czechs have announced that they have created this "Novichok" despite announcements that it could only have been made in Russia.
Yet it was never made in Russia, but Uzbekistan, in a facility that was dismantled by the Americans.
If people want to follow this fantasy then they are free to so do.
Laughing at this clumsy and clownish episode doesn't make me a "putinbot", it makes me someone who can't be bullsh1tted.
Nerve gas on a door handle? Indeed.0 -
Again, I don’t see where anyone called you a Putinbot. You are welcome to prove otherwise to me via PM. As I have already invited you to do. Twice. To me you just appear to be attempting victimhood, and I’m not buying it. I personally have nothing to add regarding the nerve agent attack. If you wish to continue complaining about being a victim, take to me by PM. If you wish to continue playing a victim on the forum, I will make sure you are protected from being exposed to it for a week or two.0
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Nobody with a brain believes this Salisbury farce. Nobody.
The Germans don't believe it.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/britain-on-defensive-in-skripal-novichok-case-a-1201573.html
It is the most insulting episode in years.
If you have the proof that you say you have, then show it.
Otherwise stop talking rubbish.
People now want this stupid hoax to go away, and maybe it will, such is the nature of a lie being floated and left to fester.
Still, there is no conclusion and yet Russia has been punished, sans evidence.0
This discussion has been closed.
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