Salisbury nerve agent attack a false flag/decoy operation?

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Nazis removed him because they did not agree with the way Amon Goth was running the camp. So what that means to the overall narrative in Auschwitz you have to make up your own mind on that

I'm going to go with what actual historians say on the matter.
I'm not going to go with what you half remember from reading racist propaganda.

You are a holocaust denier.
If you are not comfortable with that label, maybe stop denying the holocaust?

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

I'm going to go with what actual historians say on the matter.
I'm not going to go with what you half remember from reading racist propaganda.

You are a holocaust denier.
If you are not comfortable with that label, maybe stop denying the holocaust?

That's the historical record. Goth was arrested in 1944 and put in a Mental home for the Insane in Bavaria. SS doctors diagnosed him suffering from a mental disease.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That's the historical record.

So's the number of people killed in the Holocaust.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

So's the number of people killed in the Holocaust.

How can 6 million Jews have died if the Jews themselves claim 4 million Jews were still living in Europe in 1950.

Alamanac of 1933 a respected journal back then reported 9.5 million Jews lived in the whole of Europe.


5.5 million. Then how logical none of that 5.5 million Jews emigrated to the United States, and Israel and other countries during the period of 1933 to 1950. Million of Jews left Europe in that time period.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

How can 6 million Jews have died if the Jews themselves claim 4 million Jews were still living in Europe in 1950.

Alamanac of 1933 a respected journal back then reported 9.5 million Jews lived in the whole of Europe.


5.5 million. Then how logical none of that 5.5 million Jews emigrated to the United States, and Israel and other countries during the period of 1933 to 1950. Million of Jews left Europe in that time period.

But you're not denying the Holocaust, right? :rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

But you're not denying the Holocaust, right? :rolleyes:

Am I using hard data unless you think there were more Jews in Europe that are not accounted for in the historical record? Suspicious the number was 4 million a decade or more ago and jumped now to 6 million?

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Am I using hard data

No you're not. you're repeating what you read on some racist propaganda site and now you think you know better than every historian in the world.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

No you're not. you're repeating what you read on some racist propaganda site and now you think you know better than every historian in the world.

I read information from all sources. You can even see that on the other thread I provide sourcing from both sides of the debate.

Here is Almanac from 1933 is not racist propaganda.

Read the line at the bottom!

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I read information from all sources.

Some of those sources being racist propaganda.
I'm not debating points with you as there's no point. It just bares pointing out that Holocaust denial is all based on racist propaganda.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

Some of those sources being racist propaganda.
I'm not debating points with you as there's no point. It just bares pointing out that Holocaust denial is all based on racist propaganda.

Like how is that info, racist? Did it not come from a Jewish source?

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Like how is that info, racist? Did it not come from a Jewish source?

The place where you got your factoid is the racist source.
Let's not pretend. You didn't do any real research. You read this random claim on the internet from a website or Youtube that promotes a disgusting, vile, racist idea.
They dangled this piece of evidence in front of you, and you swallowed the claim whole without a thought or any effort to look into it.

And from there, you decided that you know more than all historians.

Holocaust denial is bunk rooted in racism.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

The place where you got your factoid is the racist source.
Let's not pretend. You didn't do any real research. You read this random claim on the internet from a website or Youtube that promotes a disgusting, vile, racist idea.
They dangled this piece of evidence in front of you, and you swallowed the claim whole without a thought or any effort to look into it.

And from there, you decided that you know more than all historians.

Holocaust denial is bunk rooted in racism.

How is racist this was published by the Jewish committee in 1933 before the Holocaust. You choosing to ignore historical records because it doesn't compute with your belief system.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

How is racist this was published by the Jewish committee in 1933 before the Holocaust. You choosing to ignore historical records because it doesn't compute with your belief system.

First, lets be clear, my belief system is that there is no conspiracy that a race of people faked a genocide.

Secondly, I'm not debating you, the best I can hope for is that I prove that this conspiracy theorist is racist bull****. If the fact that it's racist bull**** isn't already clear to someone, it's not worth trying to convince them.

The youtube video or website you first heard the idea that this document proves the holocaust was a hoax is the racist source I am referring to.

They are the ones who are ignoring the context around the document as well as dismissing what real historians have to say about it.

Cheerful Spring

King Mob wrote: »

First, lets be clear, my belief system is that there is no conspiracy that a race of people faked a genocide.

Secondly, I'm not debating you, the best I can hope for is that I prove that this conspiracy theorist is racist bull****. If the fact that it's racist bull**** isn't already clear to someone, it's not worth trying to convince them.

The youtube video or website you first heard the idea that this document proves the holocaust was a hoax is the racist source I am referring to.

They are the ones who are ignoring the context around the document as well as dismissing what real historians have to say about it.

You obviously have not researched the topic you just believed in the numbers without looking to see if they are true or not. I saw how you debate in the 9/11 thread all questioning but no alternative research of your own.

The document can't be racist because it stats provided by the Jewish committee in 1933. Nazis started moving Jews to concentration camps in Eastern Europe during the war. I have researched many of these so-called deaths camps and most of the people there died from disease and lack of food. Belsen for example deaths was caused by a typhoid breakout and that's why all the bodies were stripped of clothing and thrown into a pit to stop the spread of disease to everyone in the camp.

The piece of history about Belsen is not talked about, but the British doctor who entered the camp with the British army after the war ended confirmed on video what happened. The pictures online you see are not prisoners shot and thrown ina pit they are prisoners who died from the disease.

Chrongen

King Mob wrote: »

But the Jews faked the Holocaust, yea?

Literally every point you make is unlined by the fact you deny the holocaust.
Either you are biased in some very irreparable way or you are incapable of determining racist propaganda from reality. Either way, no one's going to take you angle on things very seriously.

Also you harp on some one using Wikipedia, then link **** from the daily Express, and that is just hilarious.

mcmoustache,

Would you like to wade in here an tell people that this is a discussion about Salisbury?

You were quick to say so a few posts ago.

Now?

Chrongen

King Mob wrote: »

This is Holocaust denial.

Yes, you and the people you read and support have and are denying concentration camps existed.

You are claiming this because you have swallowed racist propaganda without critical thought.

But please, link away, I'm sure your sources aren't going to be horribly racist.

This is not relevant to the discussion.

mcmoustache, back me up on this. See post #76

Chrongen

Chrongen wrote: »

This is not relevant to the discussion.

mcmoustache, back me up on this. See post #76

I think it's pretty relevant.
If you're denying the holocaust like you guys are, it shows that you aren't as well informed, honest and unbiased as you like to think.

To deny the holocaust you have to be denying reality in favour of swallowing bull**** racist propaganda.
If you're doing that, and you are, then you can't really lecture people about the particulars of international politics.
Much like how no one is going to take a flat earther seriously when they start talking about physics or astronomy.

You do believe the world is round, right? Cause holocaust denial is in that same camp, and you never know...

Chrongen

King Mob wrote: »

I think it's pretty relevant.
If you're denying the holocaust like you guys are, it shows that you aren't as well informed, honest and unbiased as you like to think.

To deny the holocaust you have to be denying reality in favour of swallowing bull**** racist propaganda.
If you're doing that, and you are, then you can't really lecture people about the particulars of international politics.
Much like how no one is going to take a flat earther seriously when they start talking about physics or astronomy.

You do believe the world is round, right? Cause holocaust denial is in that same camp, and you never know...

I was addressing another. One who was insistent that this discussion was to remain on topic, i.e. regarding the Salisbury episode. I think I have made myself quite clear.

I spoke regarding other affairs and then I insisted that this debate be not derailed, You are derailing this discussion.

I would respectfully ask that you bring it back on track.

I asked a question of Dohnjoe. It has as of yet been not forthcming, apart from the kind of flippant answer that one would expect from either a sap or a simpleton.


I stand by my assertion that the Salisbury "affair" was and is a joke.
Britain's NATO allies KNOW that it is a joke, a farce, an insult to the intelligence of anybody whose IQ is higher than that of a dandelion.

Britain is a laughing stock regarding this pathetic ruse and so are all of you who have bought into it.

The Skripals are now so healthy that you wouldn't believe it. Yulia has been taken away and the best excuse people can come up with is that it's for her own protection. Even though she was supposedly an accident in the hit against her father. How come the dastardly Kremlin thugs who tried to whack her and her dad haven't arrestedher sister and wiped out her family?

Alice In Wonderland, indeed.

Chrongen

Chrongen wrote: »

I stand by my assertion that the Salisbury "affair" was and is a joke.
Britain's NATO allies KNOW that it is a joke, a farce, an insult to the intelligence of anybody whose IQ is higher than that of a dandelion.

But you take the idea that the holocaust was faked deadly seriously.
You see how people might have a problem with your judgment.

Dohnjoe

Chrongen wrote: »

Now Dohnjoe, you've already fairly weakly sidestepped a question and one that is very important when it comes to the LAW and INTERNATIONAL PROTOCOL.

"LAW and INTERNATIONAL PROTOCOL." as you put it is not important to Putin.

If I was to trawl back how many words such as "maybe" or "most likely" would I find?

Probably a few. We don't know the contents of the private dossier so I can't comment on it. I have to use words like "probably" to indicate that. It's typical of people with no valid counter-argument to engage in wordplay and semantics

But if that's the way you think the world works, or how it ought to work in your head then crack on.

It is how the world works, they can kick out diplomats. They can make the decision based on intelligence. They don't require validation from internet posters.

Dohnjoe

Chrongen wrote: »

How come the dastardly Kremlin thugs who tried to whack her and her dad haven't arrestedher sister and wiped out her family?

She doesn't have a sister.

Chrongen

King Mob wrote: »

But you take the idea that the holocaust was faked deadly seriously.
You see how people might have a problem with your judgment.

I have never had ANY input or reason to think that the Holocaust was "faked".

Now if you want to attribute that to me then I suggest that a moderator weigh in.

I strongly suggest that you choose your words VERY carefully, King Mob.

Chrongen

Chrongen wrote: »

I have never had ANY input or reason to think that the Holocaust was "faked".

Now if you want to attribute that to me then I suggest that a moderator weigh in.

I strongly suggest that you choose your words VERY carefully, King Mob.

Ah I'm sorry, you just believe that there is a conspiracy to inflate the numbers of Jewish people killed in the holocaust and that every historian is complicit in it.
Totally different. Much more reasonable.
I'm sorry about the mistake.

Chrongen

Dohnjoe wrote: »

She doesn't have a sister.

My mistake, her cousin.

Chrongen

King Mob wrote: »

Ah I'm sorry, you just believe that there is a conspiracy to inflate the numbers of Jewish people killed in the holocaust and that every historian is complicit in it.
Totally different. Much more reasonable.
I'm sorry about the mistake.

You accuse me of promoting or supporting the notion that the Holocaust was faked and when called on it you issue a sneering non-apology.

That says a lot about your strength of character.

It takes a bit of moral fibre to own up to a mistake, something that you don't seem to be able to summon. Instead you gloss over your mistake with a petty jibe.

Dohnjoe

Chrongen wrote: »

My mistake, her cousin.

Why would they kill her cousin?

1. She's clearly on the same side as the Kremlin trying to get Yulia back to Russia
2. She thinks they were poisoned by fish (among other changeable theories)
3. It would make no political sense whatsoever to "off" Viktoria

Anyway, Yulia has made her stance pretty clear, Viktoria will fade (has already faded) into the background

Dohnjoe

Chrongen wrote: »

You accuse me of promoting or supporting the notion that the Holocaust was faked and when called on it you issue a sneering non-apology.

There was an expression of doubt over the numbers - which is always a red flag

If you have no doubts about the figures, we can move on.

Owryan

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I read information from all sources. You can even see that on the other thread I provide sourcing from both sides of the debate.

Here is Almanac from 1933 is not racist propaganda.

Read the line at the bottom!

How do they have exact figures for the number of Jews yet the others are rounded?

Plus the only sites that seem to use this almanac are the usual far right, anti semetic, holocaust denial groups.

Chrongen

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There was an expression of doubt over the numbers - which is always a red flag

If you have no doubts about the figures, we can move on.

Excuse me but I don't have to explain why I have been falsely accused of being a Holocaust denier or stating that it was faked.

You are like King Mob in that you are refusing to condemn his assertion that I stated that the Holocaust was faked. I never EVER subscribed to this abomination and I am appalled at the accusation levelled at me. You too can't seem to summon the honesty and decency to recognise and condemn such an insult and so you issue the mealy-mouthed, obsequious weasel-words such as "Oh well, you expressed doubts over the numbers hence the accusation that you are a Holocaust denier has merit"

If that's your level of cravenness then I'd prefer you didn't engage me again in debate.

Chrongen

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There was an expression of doubt over the numbers - which is always a red flag

If you have no doubts about the figures, we can move on.

And just to follow up on your "red flag" over my expression of doubt...why WOULDN'T I have some doubts?

It's simple mathematics. Growing up I was told that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. There were plaques at Auschwitz stating that 4 million died there. Then in 1989 this figure was downgraded to between 1.1 and 1.5 million. That's almost 3 million LESS yet the official figure still stands at 6 million.

I'm as much a hater of white-supremacist troglodytes as anyone with a brain can be so please don't accuse me of buying into their filth but objectively looking at these numerical adjustments why would I be wrong in my skepticism?

6 million minus 3 million is still 6 million?

It seems that a child could question this without being accused of anti-Semitism yet you and others are so terrified of the label that you will flatly refuse to consider the anomaly for fear of being "offensive" or indeed being accused of being a "Holocaust denier", a label that was quite quickly attributed to me and indeed condoned by yourself.