Salisbury nerve agent attack a false flag/decoy operation?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed

Anyway back to the Skripal case. There are 250 investigators working on the case, will be surprising if they don't find anything.

Here’s the thing dohnjoe. There’s plenty of evidence I’m actually living in Ireland. I post about Irish stuff. About television. About going on In finglas. The Eurovision. That’s just this weekend. You post about nothing but this.

I think a feedback post is in order about accusations regarding the legitimacy of posters by other posters.

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

They havent found anything yet!

Which I just agreed with in another post. Investigators found the Livinenko suspects, but it took time.

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

All the evidence/indicators we have point towards one country

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There are 250 investigators working on the case, will be surprising if they don't find anything.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Which I just agreed with in another post. Investigators found the Livinenko suspects, but it took time.

Oh...I thought you were waffling about evidence the whole time....guess you were lying then

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Which I just agreed with in another post. Investigators found the Litvinenko suspects, but it took time.

You never told me how Mario Scaramella got poisoned by p210 in a restaurant on the other side of London, same day. Still waiting for your answer on that?

Dohnjoe

It's a conspiracy theory forum. Maybe a bunch of pro-Russian posters all PM'd each other to join this thread and stir it up. Just kidding :pac:

Anyway, all this sudden "it can't be Russia!" rhetoric.. yeah, we get it. If someone wants to present their theory as to who tried to murder Sergei and Yulia in Salisbury, go ahead.. I mean if the Kremlin (or alternatively Yulia's fiancee/mother) had nothing to do with it, then who did it? it would make the case 10 times more fascinating

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

Oh...I thought you were waffling about evidence the whole time....guess you were lying then

?

What part of those 3 quotes infer I am "lying" and in what way?

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a conspiracy theory forum. Maybe a bunch of pro-Russian posters all PM'd each other to join this thread and stir it up. Just kidding :pac:

Anyway, all this sudden "it can't be Russia!" rhetoric.. yeah, we get it. If someone wants to present their theory as to who tried to murder Sergei and Yulia in Salisbury, go ahead.. I mean if the Kremlin (or alternatively Yulia's fiancee/mother) had nothing to do with it, then who did it? it would make the case 10 times more fascinating

Why do you have pro-Russia to disbelieve the narrative? I assume we are all Irish people in here?

It's Russia when proven beyond all doubt. If it was Russia I be the first to say they need to be sanctioned so hard they never do this again.

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a conspiracy theory forum. Maybe a bunch of pro-Russian posters all PM'd each other to join this thread and stir it up. Just kidding :pac:

Anyway, all this sudden "it can't be Russia!" rhetoric.. yeah, we get it. If someone wants to present their theory as to who tried to murder Sergei and Yulia in Salisbury, go ahead.. I mean if the Kremlin (or alternatively Yulia's fiancee/mother) had nothing to do with it, then who did it? it would make the case 10 times more fascinating

Its not been sudden it cant be Russia...its been that argument all along.
Nobody needs another theory...youve been caught lying about the evidence for this.

Where is your evidence?
You are the accuser on this thread...present your evidence.

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

?

What part of those 3 quotes infer I am "lying" and in what way?

You lied about the evidence.

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

Nobody needs another theory...youve been caught lying about the evidence for this.

you lied about the evidence.

"You've been caught lying" is your personal assertion

If you are going to personally assert someone is lying here - then explain why

You are the accuser on this thread

Read the title of the thread. The accusation is that it's an inside job.

1. By whom?

2. Supported by what?

I see nothing that supports that, quite the contrary.

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"You've been caught lying" is your personal assertion

If you are going to personally assert someone is lying here - then explain why



Read the title of the thread. The accusation is that it's an inside job.

1. By whom?

2. Supported by what?

I see nothing that supports that, quite the contrary.

Its plain to see that you have lied in this thread about the evidence pointing to Russian involvement.

There is a question mark in the thread title....you have tried and failed to debunk the question mark...you have lied and lied and lied saying there is evidence...there is no evidence and until you produce some you will be seen as a liar

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If you are going to personally assert someone is lying here - then explain why

You said there is evidence of the Russians carrying out this and you have produced none.

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

Its plain to see that you have lied in this thread about the evidence pointing to Russian involvement.

you will be seen as a liar

Third time asking.

Explain how

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Third time asking.

Explain how

I did...where is the evidence ?

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

You said there is evidence of the Russians carrying out this and you have produced none.

I wrote

All the evidence/indicators we have point towards one country

Note the "we" part, that's the consensus of 20-odd different governments, which have taken action based on it

Your assertion that that is all a lie is backed up by?

I'm personally lying because I support their views?

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I wrote



Note the "we" part, that's the consensus of 20-odd different governments, which have taken action based on it

Your assertion that that is all a lie is backed up by?

I'm personally lying because I support their views?

You are lying because you said there was evidence are there is none.....its really that simple

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

You are lying because you said there was evidence are there is none.....its really that simple

It's your personal subjective opinion there is "no evidence"

It's an assertion by you. An arbitrary belief you have. You could for instance assert there is "no evidence" of evolution. Your own belief? Yes. Is it true? that's up for debate. It's not up for you to label someone a liar for maintaining the opposite of your view. That would be a warped way of thinking.

So in this case, I'm going with the consensus of most significant countries on the issue.

You can disagree, you can even assert "there is no evidence", but you can't label someone a liar for maintaining an opposing view.

JenovaProject

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's your personal subjective opinion there is "no evidence"

It's an assertion by you. An arbitrary belief you have. You could for instance assert there is "no evidence" of evolution. Your own belief? Yes. Is it true? that's up for debate. It's not up for you to label someone a liar for maintaining the opposite of your view. That would be a warped way of thinking.

So in this case, I'm going with the consensus of most significant countries on the issue.

You can disagree, you can even assert "there is no evidence", but you can't label someone a liar for maintaining an opposing view.

I can do whatever I like inside the rules of boards.ie and if someone says there is evidence and doesnt produce it I am entitled to call them a liar.

You have presented no evidence whilst claiming there is....so...pretty much you lied,blustered and bluffed your whole way through this thread.

You can lie,bluff and spoof all you like but you have failed and failed miserably to prove your side of this story.

Dohnjoe

Interesting piece here in the NYT


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/14/world/europe/sergei-skripal-spying-russia-poisoning.html

Still, it was clear that he remained under Russian scrutiny. In 2013, the G.R.U. hacked into his daughter’s email accounts, according to the British government. And in 2014, his case was profiled in a Russian documentary series about the lives of Russian traitors called “The Price of Military Secrets” that was financed by the Moscow government.

The Kremlin would probably not consider sharing outdated information with foreign intelligence services to be much of a threat, said Mr. Sipher, the retired C.I.A. officer. But it would be a different matter if Mr. Skripal was being used for other purposes, like recruiting new Russian agents.

“If he was pitching other Russians, that would put him higher on the list,” Mr. Sipher said. “Or if he got too close to something that was really sensitive to the Russians.”

Overheal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Welcome all the new posters to the thread! welcome comrades

None of that please

Overheal

JenovaProject wrote: »

I can do whatever I like inside the rules of boards.ie and if someone says there is evidence and doesnt produce it I am entitled to call them a liar.

You have presented no evidence whilst claiming there is....so...pretty much you lied,blustered and bluffed your whole way through this thread.

You can lie,bluff and spoof all you like but you have failed and failed miserably to prove your side of this story.

Less of this too. We may just decide you don’t need to be posting here anyway, even if you are within the rules as you see them. “Being a dick” certainly fits the bill, when you as a user pretend to know what you will and will not be allowed to do by the moderators.

DohnJoe’s stance from what I understand is the mainstream stance. It is not up to anyone to prove the mainstream stance here. All he appeared to say is the news and known facts, scarce as they are, point to Russia, and that the UK has indicated they believe it was Russia. Most US heads on the issue outside of the Trump hardliners also believe this to be the case.

You haven’t met a reasonable standard to call him a liar here. Go ahead and believe he was wrong, but a lie would be a more deliberate falsification of fact. I don’t see where there has been a malicious attempt not to post in good faith: you’re welcome to quote examples to illustrate these however.

JenovaProject

Overheal wrote: »

Less of this too. We may just decide you don’t need to be posting here anyway, even if you are within the rules as you see them. “Being a dick” certainly fits the bill, when you as a user pretend to know what you will and will not be allowed to do by the moderators.

DohnJoe’s stance from what I understand is the mainstream stance. It is not up to anyone to prove the mainstream stance here. All he appeared to say is the news and known facts, scarce as they are, point to Russia, and that the UK has indicated they believe it was Russia. Most US heads on the issue outside of the Trump hardliners also believe this to be the case.

You haven’t met a reasonable standard to call him a liar here. Go ahead and believe he was wrong, but a lie would be a more deliberate falsification of fact. I don’t see where there has been a malicious attempt not to post in good faith: you’re welcome to quote examples to illustrate these however.

A lie is saying he has evidence and doesn't produce it.

Dohnjoe said all the evidence pointed to Russia but there is no evidence. Therefore he lied.

I'll assume you will reprimand others in this forum calling out liars if you are warning me.
Kingmob has been calling others liars for a couple of weeks without punishment...id hope there is no bias here.

Overheal

JenovaProject wrote: »

A lie is saying he has evidence and doesn't produce it.

Dohnjoe said all the evidence pointed to Russia but there is no evidence. Therefore he lied.

I'll assume you will reprimand others in this forum calling out liars if you are warning me.
Kingmob has been calling others liars for a couple of weeks without punishment...id hope there is no bias here.

“Evidence/indicators” which is kind of a cop out but he’s also not wrong, but I’m also actively not following this subject in any depth. Far too preoccupied IRL and with the 8th, personally, to follow the latest in global politics.

I think it would be sufficient to refute his claim here by producing indications that some other country besides Russia was behind the attack.

These aren’t card warnings just more of a thread instruction. I grant you there have been instances where posters are allowed to call a spade a spade. I just don’t think that we’ve reached the standard here.

Dohnjoe

JenovaProject wrote: »

Dohnjoe said all the evidence pointed to Russia but there is no evidence. Therefore he lied.

"There is no evidence" is nothing but a personal opinion held by you. It's contradicted by the fact that 28 leaders expelled diplomats based .. on the evidence

This is why I used the example of the murder of Kim Jong Nam. All the evidence that Malaysia had pointed only to N Korea involvement. There was no other plausible theory. Therefore they took action like expelling the N Korean ambassador.

Likewise, all the evidence we have (note the phrasing) on the Skripal case points in one direction. There is currently no plausible alternative. Countries have deemed that is sufficient to take action

If you personally disagree, whatever. It's your personal opinion vs the consensus of those nations

As mentioned, this thread is about alternative theories, none have been provided yet.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"There is no evidence" is nothing but a personal opinion held by you. It's contradicted by the fact that 28 leaders expelled diplomats based .. on the evidence

This is why I used the example of the murder of Kim Jong Nam. All the evidence that Malaysia had pointed only to N Korea involvement. There was no other plausible theory. Therefore they took action like expelling the N Korean ambassador.

Likewise, all the evidence we have (note the phrasing) on the Skripal case points in one direction. There is currently no plausible alternative. Countries have deemed that is sufficient to take action

If you personally disagree, whatever. It's your personal opinion vs the consensus of those nations

As mentioned, this thread is about alternative theories, none have been provided yet.

Mixing events doesn't help your case. North Korea is not Russia.

UK government still refuses to allow Skipral cousins visit them and see how they are doing. Are Skiprals cousins a threat?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Mixing events doesn't help your case. North Korea is not Russia.

It's a good example because it's so similar. It also demonstrates how people can react differently or irrationally to similar situations but with different players that may trigger them

UK government still refuses to allow Skipral cousins visit them and see how they are doing. Are Skiprals cousins a threat?

Yulia herself has made it pretty clear - “no one speaks for me, or for my father, but ourselves”. “I thank my cousin Viktoria for her concern for us, but ask that she does not visit me or try to contact me for the time being,”

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a good example because it's so similar. It also demonstrates how people can react differently or irrationally to similar situations but with different players that may trigger them



Yulia herself has made it pretty clear - “no one speaks for me, or for my father, but ourselves”. “I thank my cousin Viktoria for her concern for us, but ask that she does not visit me or try to contact me for the time being,”

There no reason she would not like to speak to her cousins. She is being prevented from doing so it obvious. She probably did even make that statement reason there stopping her cousins from visiting.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

She is being prevented from doing so it obvious.

And you know this how?

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And you know this how?

Why would she not like to see her cousins two months after this incident? There is no evidence they did not like each other? Fact Skipral and his daughter haven't said a word in public yet are highly suspicious.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

highly suspicious.

To you.

Do you have any evidence of an inside job or do you just automatically suspect one?