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RTÉ DTT Tests: Mullaghanish

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Comments

  • #302
    dunleas
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭dunleas


    Antenna wrote: »
    All 6 national FM radios are currently off from Mullaghanish since some time this morning, I presume due to the replacement mast work.



    UPDATE: noted back on 12:30

    hmmmm Radio1 and 2fm still down here.....


  • #303
    Voyager II
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭Voyager II


    All back now:)


  • #304
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    dunleas wrote: »
    hmmmm Radio1 and 2fm still down here.....

    they all came back temporarily (for lunchtime?), then went off again (and still off)

    TV unaffected AFAIK


  • #305
    Voyager II
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭Voyager II


    Antenna wrote: »
    they all came back temporarily (for lunchtime?), then went off again (and still off)

    As of 16:27 all radio and tv channels working here old head of kinsale from mullaghanish.


  • #306
    pa990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭pa990


    two audio streams now on RTE1, RTE2, TG4.

    second audio is silent at the moment


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  • #307
    kinsaleferg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭kinsaleferg


    Am about 3 miles south of Innishannon.

    Red Band A aerial for Mullaghanish hung off of fishing gut in the attic. No Amp.

    Philips 32PFL5404H (setup to do UK scan so I can see the MHEG apps) shows 16 channels. 40% strength 'Good' Quality

    Have had standard RTE channels + radio + News Now for several months

    Most recent addition is the suite of RTE DAB channels which are being rebroadcast on DTT.

    Might get a cheap DTT STB(with audio out) to be my DAB receiver while we wait for DAB proper


  • #308
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,575 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I can't get any audio on RTE1 but tv shows 3 audio feeds but all silent.
    Lot of radio stations appearing now too


  • #309
    kinsaleferg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭kinsaleferg


    RTE 1 - I think it may be the audio description stream, might show as NAR. Its not broadcasting on the show I am watching right now, but theres a holder for it.
    The main audio is fine but I am fairly sure this is a mono recording (buddy holly show)


  • #310
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Anyone here getting the MHEG5 Digital Aertel Teletext from Mullaghanish? I was receiving it previously but am not not now!


  • #311
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,639 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Anyone here getting the MHEG5 Digital Aertel Teletext from Mullaghanish? I was receiving it previously but am not not now!

    Working here together with the MHEG-5 epg (green button).


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  • #312
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    The Cush wrote: »
    The RTÉNL rollout schedule indicates that power output will be 40kW from the new mast and antennas up from 20kW with final power output of 200kW at ASO.
    Crush. Does this mean that DTT is only operating at 20% of it's proposed power & that strength & quality are to improve futher? At the monent I have 100% signal strength with 30-40-50% quality with bit error rate all over the place & clear blue skies. I'm really confused in that I've just had a new hi-gain areial installed with the intention of getting signal from my usual VHF/UHF mast - Maghera (channel 48) - but I've got a stronger signal from Mulla (channel 21) with the aerial pointing 90 degrees from the Mulla mast getting the signal broadside rather than pointing directly at the mast. (i.e. almost exactly half way between both masts). Comments please.


  • #313
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,639 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Crush. Does this mean that DTT is only operating at 20% of it's proposed power & that strength & quality are to improve futher?
    The final figure for Mullaghanish is 200kW at ASO. There's a new taller mast under construction there and according to More Music recently, new UHF antennas have been installed also some posters here have reported receiving DTT from Mullaghanish further from the transmitter possibily due to higher power tests from the new taller mast which would explain your improved reception.

    I receive Woodcock Hill DTT side on my Mullaghanish aerial but cannot pick up analogue from Woodcock Hill even with the correct aerial pointing in the correct direction.


  • #314
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Crush. Does this mean that DTT is only operating at 20% of it's proposed power & that strength & quality are to improve futher? At the monent I have 100% signal strength with 30-40-50% quality with bit error rate all over the place & clear blue skies. I'm really confused in that I've just had a new hi-gain areial installed with the intention of getting signal from my usual VHF/UHF mast - Maghera (channel 48) - but I've got a stronger signal from Mulla (channel 21) with the aerial pointing 90 degrees from the Mulla mast getting the signal broadside rather than pointing directly at the mast. (i.e. almost exactly half way between both masts). Comments please.

    surprised you were getting maghera in the past and not mullaghanish, i'm up in clare/tipp(right on the border) and was expecting maghera but mullaghanish was all i could get, and i'm only 20km as crow flies from maghera

    I am on the shannon though so we are down in the valley so that could explain it.


  • #315
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Yeah, it seems obvious that I should access Mullaghanish but I live live on the southwestern side of Tralee, at the base of & in the shadow of the Slieve Mish Mountains, never any Mulla VHF/UHF rond here! My neighbours & I all point to Maghera for what is a crap analogue signal. As mentioned in my post to Crush, I get best signal from Mulla with the aerial positioned at 90 degrees to the mast. Stength is at max but quality is only 40% & my concern is that in poor weather I will loose everything.


  • #316
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    What's the signal from Maghera like on Ch 48? Like is quality better than Mulla? Signal strength is not so important per se.


  • #317
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    What's the signal from Maghera like on Ch 48? Like is quality better than Mulla? Signal strength is not so important per se.
    Now at 10%, but not pointing directly at Maghera. When pointed directly I was getting 30-40% quality but the bit error rete was far worse than what I have from Mulla (hence a lot of picture break up). Just wish RTÉNL would post power output & tests for their masts on their web site so ppl would know where they stand esp in marginal reception areas:(


  • #318
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Update: Mullaghanish signal quality now at 10%. Is there some tweeking going on there? - massive picture breakup. Maghrea 10% also.


  • #319
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Update: Mullaghanish signal quality now at 10%. Is there some tweeking going on there? - massive picture breakup. Maghrea 10% also.

    I am receiving the same strength from Mullaghanish as I always was! Quality is varying between 60 to 90% for me.


  • #320
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    co channel or long distance reception of competing transmitters is rife today and could be the most likely cause of the dips in quality and occasional programme drop outs.


  • #321
    irishchris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭irishchris


    has anyone any audio sync probs on rte1/2/news now.
    my sound is out using a usb tuner on vu+. not sure if its a prob with dtt from maghera or if its the driver issue as vu+support for it is new


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  • #322
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    I know that my signal is marginal but quality still at 10% down from 40-50% 24 hours ago - must be engineering work or something. Couldn't be that my aerial has shifted since yesterday:(


  • #323
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,575 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    maybe its the weather, other signals that usually don't count might be strong enough in the high pressure to get through and interfere


  • #324
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    I thought DTT was ment to be impervious to atmospheric conditions that "murder" VHF, if that were the case, what happens in countries with warmer climates - surely they don't suffer broadcast interferance during their hot summers. Anyone know of a site where a mole from RTÉNL might be posting "work in progress" updates?;)


  • #325
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DTT is not impervious to co channel.

    It's a case when theres co channel of you either have one or the other channel with some break up or no channel at all.

    You would first notice it by observing signal quality when in fine weather like now.
    Signal quality will vary a lot and be going up and down like a yo yo.
    That reflects both signals rising and dropping in strength versus each other and the interfering one nearing the threshold of signal quality to out do the other signal.

    The difference between digital and analogue pictures is with digital,you either have it or you don't.
    So in co channel,you would always have wavy lines on analogue pictures but with digital,you wouldn't know about co channel untill it passes the other channels signal threshold or equals it.
    Prior to it doing that,you have a perfect picture whereas with analogue you had a bad picture even with weak co channel interference.

    When it equals it,you get nothing at all as if the tx is off air but if you do a signal test,you will see the signal is there but quality has gone below 20%

    Hope that explains it in layman's terms.


  • #326
    dnme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭dnme


    I'm in south Co. Sligo, my DTT is gone, I notice that when I rescan, I am picking up a weak UK DTT signal, so maybe there is one cancelling the other out. Oh well back to analog for the evening.


  • #327
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    DTT is not impervious to co channel.
    Understood. But a little clarificaton. Does co channel exist due to interferance from other DTT channels or just VHR/UHF or a combination of all? Will the ASO in 2012 solve the problem. Is the possibility of co channel greater if RTÉNL decide to reduce power on their test transmissions? Also in fairness atmospherics haven't changed that much in the past 24 hours to explain the reduction of 30% in signal quality. At the moment: quality 10% - strength 100%. BER 1.47/3.64-02. Last night quality 40-50% - strength 100%.
    BER 3.5/5.5-05. What is the optimum BER? Thanks for the help!
    In the meantime I've just to lay claim to sat box for the world cup as I don't have a deacent analogue option. Nice to have the DTT option while it lasted.


  • #328
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    BER should be 0 ideally. But I think it's supposed to be anything below 1x10^ -7
    So the numbers are very high, with according low quality.

    In my experience, it's unusual to see a DTT box reaching 100% signal. It sounds like the amp being used could be too powerful. I think you should manage a better signal from either Maghera or Mulla, terrain and all, so I wouldn't rule DTT out yet.

    Do you have any details on your setup at all? Like what Group aerial it is? (http://www.aerialsandtv.com/aerials.html#aerialgroups) You don't need to go through the whole article, basically the aerial will have a coloured tip which will tell you what group it is. Is the aerial outside or not?

    It can be the case aswell that cables used are mediocre and don't have enough shielding. For someone getting 40% quality, having a shorter or better quality cable can make all the difference. That website has got tonnes of info on that if you want to find out more!


  • #329
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Machinehead wrote: »
    Understood. But a little clarificaton. Does co channel exist due to interferance from other DTT channels or just VHR/UHF or a combination of all? Will the ASO in 2012 solve the problem. Is the possibility of co channel greater if RTÉNL decide to reduce power on their test transmissions? Also in fairness atmospherics haven't changed that much in the past 24 hours to explain the reduction of 30% in signal quality. At the moment: quality 10% - strength 100%. BER 1.47/3.64-02. Last night quality 40-50% - strength 100%.
    BER 3.5/5.5-05. What is the optimum BER? Thanks for the help!
    In the meantime I've just to lay claim to sat box for the world cup as I don't have a deacent analogue option. Nice to have the DTT option while it lasted.
    The standards for decoding dtt signals are a different page altogether to analogue reception.

    You can have fine weather and no co channel even with high pressure and you can have it in low pressure! but its very common in high pressure.
    It's actually tropospheric ducting that causes the co channel with the far away signals damaging the local one and even over riding it.

    Reducing power would enhance the problem.


    Theres actually a forecast here for the tropo and as you can see it's going to be pretty exstensive over the coming days.


  • #330
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Out of interest, where could tropospheric ducting be coming from on Ch 21, especially in Tralee? Caradon Hill? Divis? It seems very extreme if it's from those sorts of distances. I've only seen that sort of effect once in 4 years of messing around with DTT.


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  • #331
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    Out of interest, where could tropospheric ducting be coming from on Ch 21, especially in Tralee? Caradon Hill? Divis? It seems very extreme if it's from those sorts of distances. I've only seen that sort of effect once in 4 years of messing around with DTT.
    Regular reception of caradon hill in normal conditions has been reported in Kinsale.
    I could also get it in analogue here poorly with a group A in normal conditions and very good in fine weather.
    So it's not *that* extreme at all.

    What is extreme is Gerry Wicklow reporting here getting french dtt yesterday on a grid pointing to presely.

    Proper Tropo is a dx'ers heaven if they have the right aerials.
    We've got spanish fm here with rds during it and once even italian stuff.

    The likes of caradon and Blaenplwyf [It's SW beam] are near enough to be more regular visitors or troublemakers depending on what you want.


  • #332
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Jaysus, French DTT?! I did not notice that. I do know that Tropo reception is not as terrain affected because of its nature, signal is almost being picked up from on high. But the terrain the whole way from there to Wales or Devon is challenging to say the least. And crucially, anything would be coming from the same direction as Mulla is to this poster, and they would have to have nulcear reactor ERPs to overwhelm a 20kW ERP transmitter only about 40 km away. Indeed, Mulla is directly between Caradon Hill and Tralee.

    Machinehead: I think there's no harm in checking out the aerial type and if the cable's up to much or even trying out a variable attenuator, they're cheap as chips on ebay. But do check what the signal's like when the weather has changed somewhat. As BB said, the tropospheric ducting thing can't be discounted.


  • #333
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    Jaysus, French DTT?! I did not notice that. I do know that Tropo reception is not as terrain affected because of its nature, signal is almost being picked up from on high. But the terrain the whole way from there to Wales or Devon is challenging to say the least. And crucially, anything would be coming from the same direction as Mulla is to this poster, and they would have to have nulcear reactor ERPs to overwhelm a 20kW ERP transmitter only about 40 km away. Indeed, Mulla is directly between Caradon Hill and Tralee.
    Remember the Mullaghanish signal will be behaving wierdly aswell so it can easily dip and fall in tropo locally and if that coincides with a visiting signal.
    Double hubble toil and trouble.

    It's a constant more frequent threat to Mt Leinster in wexford from sea path presely and vice versa over in pembrokeshire as we're actually in a default presely service area.
    Giving both the same dtt frequencies suggests the allocators hadn't a clue as to the potential problems with adjacent tx's on this new technology.
    But as they say,hindsight is a great thing.
    I hope in Mt Leinsters case,RTENL just return to the free ch 39..it's only going to get french dtt interfering with it then the odd time :pac:


  • #334
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    G'day gents. My knowledge in all things DTT is zip & trying to find someone who has some is difficult to say the least. My aerial is a C/D wideband hi gain type with masthead amp, intended for Maghera. This mast gave inferior reception compared to the result when angled toward Mullaghanish. If my loss of signal from Mulla is due to co channel, should I just go back & re-align to Maghera - which is better since yesterday. At the moment I am alaigned to a point between both masts, with Mulla offering best reception until yesterday. Pointing directly at Mulla gave no result, damn mountains. Doing my best to make some sense!


  • #335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Half your problem in co channel is that you are having to point away from mullaghanish to get it and the other half is the fact you are using a wideband aerial and probably a wideband amp.

    Pointing a wideband away from the intended target is a no no as you have reduced the signal straight away on both counts.
    You need to stick with maghera and get the proper grouped aerial for that and the proper grouped masthead amp.

    I'll sound like a broken record now but You also need a meter to make sure your aerial is at the exact centre of maghera's beam at your location.
    Copying the direction of other peoples aerials means everybody copies someone elses mistake.


  • #336
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    Machinehead wrote: »
    C/D wideband hi gain type

    thats a contradiction as "C/D" is not a wide band aerial. C/D is for upper UHF. It probably has a green colourcode on the end. A wideband (21-69) UHF aerial may be referred to as Group W.

    C/D is the correct 'group' for Maghera but way wrong for Mullaghanish (low UHF)
    Mullaghanish UHF is Group A, (Red colourcode)

    best reception with 'wrong' group aerial may occur with aerial way off beam.

    Also its horizontal polarised - ensure aerial elements are horizontal , not vertical for either Mullaghanish or Maghera. (wrong polarisation is a common mistake with DIYers)


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  • #337
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Antenna wrote: »
    thats a contradiction as "C/D" is not a wide band aerial. C/D is for upper UHF. It probably has a green colourcode on the end. A wideband (21-69) UHF aerial may be referred to as Group W.

    C/D is the correct 'group' for Maghera but way wrong for Mullaghanish (low UHF)
    Mullaghanish UHF is Group A, (Red colourcode)

    best reception with 'wrong' group aerial may occur with aerial way off beam.

    Also its horizontal polarised - ensure aerial elements are horizontal , not vertical for either Mullaghanish or Maghera. (wrong polarisation is a common mistake with DIYers)
    One note on your first point: Some aerials are marketed as "C/D Wideband" as in, they use wideband aerials in place of C/D aerials as they perform nearly the same.

    Machinehead: I assume the aerial is outdoors? The aerial is not ideal for the job at hand, especially if Mullaghanish is consistently better. If the aerial can be raised or lowered, it could work much better too. It may need some fiddling around to get it optimised.


  • #338
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    My aerial is chimney mounted. To-day Maghera is superior to Mulla (total reversal to situation 2 days ago). I'm going to wait for weather conditions to change before I mess with my aerial. If there are no changes I will point the antenna directly at Maghera (not side on to Maghera & Mulla as is now-but did give better quality initially). Then I'll give up till full launch & RTENL quit messin around with the signals. I wonder if things have improved for anyone else having probs with Mulla?


  • #339
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    One note on your first point: Some aerials are marketed as "C/D Wideband" as in, they use wideband aerials in place of C/D aerials as they perform nearly the same.

    Machinehead: I assume the aerial is outdoors? The aerial is not ideal for the job at hand, especially if Mullaghanish is consistently better.

    Mullaghanish PSB MUX is on Ch 21, the lowest UHF TV channel
    the gain is going to be poor (for the aerial's size) on that channel for that type of aerial
    Machinehead wrote: »
    At the moment I am alaigned to a point between both masts, with Mulla offering best reception until yesterday. Pointing directly at Mulla gave no result, damn mountains. Doing my best to make some sense!

    Its possible you were getting a signal reflection, might there be a large warehouse/factory etc visible in the direction the aerial was pointing?


  • #340
    Machinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 732 ✭✭✭Machinehead


    Morning Antenna. I live in a rural area 4km SW of Tralee. No chance of reflections. Maghera still comming thru' with very low signal quality (15%, still with the aerial at 90 degrees to mast) no picture break up & cloudy skies, can't get Mulla. It must have been atmospherics that allowed me to get Mulla with good signal quality or else they have pulled back the power a little for a while. Pity RTENL don't post up to test status reports.


  • #341
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    my mullaghanish was gone yesterday evening, had been rock solid for the two weeks before, nothing at all last night


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  • #342
    downwiththatsor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭downwiththatsor


    mossym wrote: »
    my mullaghanish was gone yesterday evening, had been rock solid for the two weeks before, nothing at all last night
    Any update on DTT transmissions from Mullaghanish at the moment? Thinking of getting a tuner for my linux box if transmissions are on air?
    Cheers


  • #343
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    downwiththatsor wrote: »
    Any update on DTT transmissions from Mullaghanish at the moment? Thinking of getting a tuner for my linux box if transmissions are on air?
    Cheers

    working fine. i wouldn't use me as a barometer, i am way north of mullaghanish and down in the valley of the shannon, it should be maghera or woodcock i can get but mulla is all i can pick up. Me losing signal shouldn't be a sign of any problems, i reckon i'm right at the range of reception

    Watched the united /FAI game on it last night.


  • #344
    Voyager II
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭Voyager II


    mulla working fine for quite a while now. you can tell by the fact there have been no posts in this thread for over a month. get your tuner it will be well worth it. Which box is that by the way?


  • #345
    downwiththatsor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 915 ✭✭✭downwiththatsor


    Voyager II wrote: »
    mulla working fine for quite a while now. you can tell by the fact there have been no posts in this thread for over a month. get your tuner it will be well worth it. Which box is that by the way?

    cheers guys,
    its an azbox elite, if tv3 analogue reception is average would i be likely to expect ok dtt? A hill in the line of sight affects reception where i am.


  • #346
    Voyager II
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭Voyager II


    average should be fine for dtt. just make sure you have the correct ariel for ch 21 and it is mounted horizontally. dtt is as good if not better than the rte transmissions from artra 28e on sky.


  • #347
    cillo2000
    Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭cillo2000


    At the moment DTT isn't broadcasting TV3, it has been like this for months now. They've replaced it with test cards... but DTT has been in the news a lot over the last few days, so I'd imagine that it should move from a beta phase to live. So I guess TV3 should be re-appearing soon. I mailed the guys in the RTE network and they give fairly good feed back on what's happening.

    Oh and to answer your question I'm getting a 50-60% signal in south Kerry from Mullaghanish and this is all you need for a perfect picture.


  • #348
    deanh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭deanh


    What is the likely range of DTT broadcasts from Mullaghanish? My family have a holiday home in Rosscarbery which does get a signal from there but most of the area relies on a infill signal from a tower at Downeen. These sites are not likely to be upgraded, so would the signal from Mullaghanish be strong enough for DTT?


  • #349
    12 element
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 719 ✭✭✭12 element


    What's the analog signal like? Is it watchable?


  • #350
    deanh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭deanh


    If you are asking about the analogue signal in Rosscarbery 12 element, then I would say it is quite good for RTE 1 and 2 and for TG4 as well as good sound but snowy picture for TV3( which makes me suspect that the signal is from Mullaghanish as I don't think its on the relay transmitter from Downeen).


  • #351
    Antenna
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭Antenna


    regarding the new mast at Mullaghanish

    I am led to believe that strobe lighting is now operational on the Mullaghanish replacement mast and would be visible farther than the old lighting. Anyone with LOS (Line-Of-Sight) - have a look during darkness!


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