The Frederick St protest and reaction

DrumSteve · 12-09-2018 4:44pm

Hurrache wrote: »

So firstly, what private security law were they breaking?

Secondly, how do you know they had no tax, insurance, and required an NCT?

As noted above; they had bally's on and no ID. I'd be fairly certain as part of the private security licence you would need to at least wear your badge (like every doorman in temple bar).

I seen the Van window. It's freely available online if you want to have a look yourself.

DrumSteve · 12-09-2018 4:46pm

Kiith wrote: »

The van is a valid complaint, but they were not required to have ID.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

Interesting about the ID in that case; what would they be classed under then in that case? Baliffs?

12-09-2018 4:46pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

As noted above; they had bally's on and no ID. I'd be fairly certain as part of the private security licence you would need to at least wear your badge (like every doorman in temple bar).

How do we know they were a private security company and not members of the family that own the house?

Hurrache · 12-09-2018 4:47pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

As noted above; they had bally's on and no ID. I'd be fairly certain as part of the private security licence you would need to at least wear your badge (like every doorman in temple bar).

I seen the Van window. It's freely available online if you want to have a look yourself.

You may be certain, but you'd be wrong.

And if the van was registered in northern Ireland as some claim, there's no requirement to display disks other than an MoT, so you've no way of knowing if it was taxed or insured.

DrumSteve · 12-09-2018 4:48pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

How do we know they were a private security company and not members of the family that own the house?

Lets get them on to Maury for a DNA test then :pac:

cursai · 12-09-2018 4:57pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A bailiff acting on a court order can use reasonable force in removing people from a property. A court has other options open to it, including fining occupiers (and making an order for attachment to the occupier's earnings or social welfare income).

No. they can't use reasonable force to enforce an order.

seamus · 12-09-2018 5:00pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Interesting about the ID in that case; what would they be classed under then in that case? Baliffs?

Private individuals.

They may or may not have been contracted, we don't know.

But what they were doing is not a competency of the PSA, so no ID or training required.

12-09-2018 5:04pm

Kiith wrote: »

The van is a valid complaint, but they were not required to have ID.

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

Tax disks are no longer used in Uk. Insurance disks never were.

cursai · 12-09-2018 5:04pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Well I suppose the corollary is why would the Garda hide their faces, but have their badges on show?

We don't live in a tinpot dictatorship. We live in a republic and the Garda (funded by our tax money) police the state with the publics consent. Hiding their faces and protecting lads wearing balaclavas and tracksuits themselves (who also seem to have been breaking the law ) does not make for a great look.

I think its to stop all the dirty scrotes and internet protesters from identifying them.

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 5:07pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

Well I suppose the corollary is why would the Garda hide their faces, but have their badges on show?

We don't live in a tinpot dictatorship. We live in a republic and the Garda (funded by our tax money) police the state with the publics consent. Hiding their faces and protecting lads wearing balaclavas and tracksuits themselves (who also seem to have been breaking the law ) does not make for a great look.

The Gardai were probably hiding their faces because of the type of seriously deranged people that they were dealing with because in similar situations the family of Gardai and Gardai themselves have been targetted in their private homes and private situations in absolutely disgusting situations.

There were whole Facebook pages dedicated to outing Garda so that they could be targetted by idiots. It is completely unacceptable behaviour.

For me, Gardai should wear bodycams and the penalties for resisting a Gardai or assaulting a Gardai should be a minimum jail sentence of appropriate length, which can't be suspended. The evidence from the bodycams should be used to convict. The pushing and shoving and assaulting of Gardai in so-called "peaceful" protests would soon stop.

seamus · 12-09-2018 5:15pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Why did the cops allow those other fools dress in black with black balaclavas and driving that battered oul untaxed van?

Because there's nothing illegal about either of those things. It's a UK reg, so "untaxed" is irrelevant. The cops can't "stop" a private individual from doing these things without a legal basis.

Why didnt the cops have a senior unmasked officer there to take charge and talk to protesters/journalists.

Because the Gardai weren't there to carry out an eviction. There were there to maintain public order.

Seems odd that there would be an officer there specifically for PR purposes; would such an officer be present at any other ad-hoc protest?

Image is important and this is a win for the protesters.

I think it's 50:50 if I'm being honest. Since the initial "OMG TERRORIST GARDAI ARE THROWING PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREETS" hysteria has been proven to be lies, nobody really seems to be on the fence. You're either outraged at the eviction, or outraged at the occupiers.

BBFAN · 12-09-2018 5:16pm

john4321 wrote: »

If you look up irony in the future you will find this quote.

An irony that seems lost on you. Boards famous for slating non-contributory people. What do they think that investors with derelict buildings all around the city contribute to society?

cursai · 12-09-2018 5:39pm

BBFAN wrote: »

An irony that seems lost on you. Boards famous for slating non-contributory people. What do they think that investors with derelict buildings all around the city contribute to society?

business, tax, jobs?

Noveight · 12-09-2018 5:44pm

BBFAN wrote: »

Boards famous for slating non-contributory people.

What's wrong with that either?

If you're not elderly, seriously ill or genuinely disabled then you should be able to get off your cozy arse and have a go at pulling your weight.

nullzero · 12-09-2018 5:45pm

Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

We have a serious problem with housing and nothing is being done to solve it these types of protests are an inevitable symptom of this situation, let's hope we don't degenerate into violent protest before something is done about this.

Prominent_Dawg · 12-09-2018 5:48pm

Steal - "taking (another person's property) without permission or legal right".. "actives" sounds so much better!

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 5:50pm

nullzero wrote: »

Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!

nullzero · 12-09-2018 5:54pm

blanch152 wrote: »

How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!

If my granny had balls she'd be my grandad.

Are you satisfied that the housing issue in Ireland is being dealt with properly?

aidoh · 12-09-2018 5:55pm

I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

Odhinn · 12-09-2018 5:55pm

blanch152 wrote: »

How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!

The way in which it was done raises no qualms at all?

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 5:58pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The way in which it was done raises no qualms at all?

I think this RTE article explains it well:

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

"A spokesman for the Garda Representative Association said "the ski mask is sometimes worn by the Public Order Unit for their own safety."

GRA Director of Communications John O'Keeffe said "the hood is flame retardant and in a time when horrific acid attacks are becoming more prevalent, it also offers some further protection from sprays or gases, or any other noxious substance."

He added that "the idea that our members were somehow part of the problem, is errant nonsense.""

For once, I have to agree with the GRA.

I wouldn't have been surprised if some of the protestors and their supporters had engaged in that kind of violence against the Gardai.

Noveight · 12-09-2018 5:59pm

aidoh wrote: »

That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

A push back against the namby-pamby, something-for-nothing sense of entitlement endorsed by Paul Murphy et al.

Not entirely surprising, tbf.

MadYaker · 12-09-2018 6:06pm

Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.

Odhinn · 12-09-2018 6:07pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I think this RTE article explains it well:

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

"A spokesman for the Garda Representative Association said "the ski mask is sometimes worn by the Public Order Unit for their own safety."

GRA Director of Communications John O'Keeffe said "the hood is flame retardant and in a time when horrific acid attacks are becoming more prevalent, it also offers some further protection from sprays or gases, or any other noxious substance."

He added that "the idea that our members were somehow part of the problem, is errant nonsense.""

For once, I have to agree with the GRA.

I wouldn't have been surprised if some of the protestors and their supporters had engaged in that kind of violence against the Gardai.

But the Gardai in balaclavas did not eject the protesters - they stood their with batons drawn (afaik) as a group of heavies in balaclavas privately employed did so. Nothing about that strikes you as odd? worrying?

Prominent_Dawg · 12-09-2018 6:07pm

nullzero wrote: »

Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

The protestors were there in support of an illegal activity.. It's refreshing to see a no tolerance approach if anything within this country!

riffmongous · 12-09-2018 6:09pm

aidoh wrote: »

I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

Frustrated fantasists

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:11pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.

On this island I can imagine a fairly significant number of reasons people would prefer that our law enforcement agency avoid looking like the 'rent-a-thug' mob, with an a UK reg, violently throwing people into the street. Additional reasons that is, above and beyond the reasons that AGS themselves would highlight why this is a bad idea when talking about the importance of community policing.

IF you can't understand that then I suggest you pick up a history book.

McMurphy · 12-09-2018 6:12pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

There is zero legislation that states you have to identify yourself to a reporter or a rabble. I’m sure they were introduced to the Gardaefore they went to the house, otherwise the Gardaould be evicting one rabble and letting another rabble in, which would be pointless.

You might need to reread what I posted instead of focusing on one singular point.

I asked if it was legal to drive a vehicle without a front registration plate, apparently the rear one was a uk one (I'm open to correction on this btw) while working either for, or in accordance/conjunction with the states police force?

My guess wold be no, but it's only a little guess mind.

Should we be expecting more masked men in unmarked vans, partially displaying registration plates in future police operations?

I need to know if I should be feeling worried or reassured here.

Edgware · 12-09-2018 6:12pm

aidoh wrote: »

I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

Well you can't blame People getting aroused at the thought of a truncheon bouncing off Rich Boy Barrett head.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:14pm

Amirani wrote: »

How was it violent exactly? Are you just making things up?

Gardaí have said that the eviction was peaceful: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-say-removal-of-protesters-by-men-in-balaclavas-was-a-peaceful-eviction-37308796.html

A couple of activists went to hospital due to injuries while being arrested by Gardaí, this was not part of the eviction, but due to public order offences outside the property.

There are allegations of violence on part of the unidentified, masked enforcers who physically removed protesters from the property. There are accounts and indeed images of the resulting violence widely available.

That the AGS defended their involvement is utterly immaterial. Their reputation for honestly reporting their actions speaks (loudly) for itself.

12-09-2018 6:15pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.

To keep them honest, frankly.

It's not much use, in a skirmish, or where observers are simply watching from some distance, to say "ah did ye not see the badge number?" Surely anybody can understand that., so I suspect some posters here may be deliberately 'confused' as to why a police force exercising very significant privileges should not cover their faces when potentially using force.

Guy:Incognito · 12-09-2018 6:18pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That the AGS defended their involvement is utterly immaterial. Their reputation for honestly reporting their actions speaks (loudly) for itself.

Only to certain types.

Types who already have their opinions anyway and are only interested in the parts of stories that further their agendas .

And frankly, who gives a **** about those whinger types anyway.......

jimmycrackcorm · 12-09-2018 6:18pm

NuMarvel wrote:

The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the GardaÃ or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the GardaÃ have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

wearing balaclavas when undertaking policing duties, possibly whilst using force (but under any circumstances) impedes accountability (eg witness accounts are severely limited); there's also a psychological dimension in that people who believe they have an enhanced degree of anonymity tend to act-out in a more aggressive and confrontational manner than might ordinarily be expected (that's the whole basis for the nonsense spewed by keyboard warriors, after all).

washiskin wrote:

Genuine question, have this group occupied any boarded up local authority flats or houses anywhere? Is it just private dwellings they are targeting?

Clearly not. They're not interested in boarded up council houses in suburban areas such as Darndale when they can target private dwellings right in the city centre.

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 6:18pm

Odhinn wrote: »

But the Gardai in balaclavas did not eject the protesters - they stood their with batons drawn (afaik) as a group of heavies in balaclavas privately employed did so. Nothing about that strikes you as odd? worrying?

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

"The protesters left the house peacefully but five other people, four men and a woman, were arrested for public order offences."

What did the so-called "heavies" do wrong if it is generally accepted that the protesters left the house peacefully?

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:19pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is indeed,and usually results in a somewhat more robust response than we provide....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM1c_58e6jk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUHzFDyfrAg

You post these videos approving of the actions contained therein?

You assert that, on the continent, such protests 'usually result' in more authoritarian responses than on this island. Beyond these two anecdotes have you any evidence to demonstrate this?

Pete Moss · 12-09-2018 6:21pm

Protesters now having a sit down at the junction of O'Connell Street, Parnell Street and Parnell Square.

No buses or Luas trams can get by, or any other traffic.

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 6:21pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

To keep them honest, frankly.

It's not much use, in a skirmish, or where observers are simply watching from some distance, to say "ah did ye not see the badge number?" Surely anybody can understand that., so I suspect some posters here may be deliberately 'confused' as to why a police force exercising very significant privileges should not cover their faces when potentially using force.

Come off it.

As their likes did before, the type of protesters involved in this protest want to set up Facebook pages and target the private lives of Gardai in a modern-day version of intimidation and harrassment.

Like the vast majority of people in this country, I have no time for that type of protester.

blanch152 · 12-09-2018 6:21pm

Pete Moss wrote: »

Protesters now having a sit down at the junction of O'Connell Street, Parnell Street and Parnell Square.

No buses or Luas trams can get by, or any other traffic.

Children having a tantrum.

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:23pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Do you actually think the taoiseach had any involvement in such mundane day to day operations of the Gardai, I'd be surprised if the commissioner had any involvement.

The Gardai are in the job of applying and enforcing the law, not PR.

Of course not.

Of course as we are now well aware, or ought to be, AGS actions can have consequences well beyond their ranks. If somehow this has escaped your attention, you might want to ask the last two Justice Ministers for their opinion on this.

Odhinn · 12-09-2018 6:23pm

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

"The protesters left the house peacefully but five other people, four men and a woman, were arrested for public order offences."

What did the so-called "heavies" do wrong if it is generally accepted that the protesters left the house peacefully?

If the protesters were to be ejected for breach of a court order, why didn't the gardai do it? Instead they (masked) stood around protecting a large group of privately employed masked bruisers doing so, with their batons drawn. It's a bizarre set up, and I have yet to hear an explanation that addresses it.

12-09-2018 6:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Come off it.

As their likes did before, the type of protesters involved in this protest want to set up Facebook pages and target the private lives of Gardai in a modern-day version of intimidation and harrassment.

That's a bit far fetched, now.

I see Gardaí monitoring the property of (what i assume to be) a drug-cartel member every day on my commute to work. They never wear a disguise. Gardaí do dangerous, very brave, work every day of the week, around people who clearly represent a threat to their lives -- maybe even their families' lives.

Are you seriously telling me these cops are lying awake at night worried about people saying mean things about them on Facebook? That they are afraid of so-called 'crusties'? If they are, maybe they've chosen the wrong career.

12-09-2018 6:27pm

oh for a govt that would baton these jobless wonders off the road

easy knowing how far 'working people' are from their priorities with the entire town blocked from getting home

c**ts

The J Stands for Jay · 12-09-2018 6:31pm

Amirani wrote: »

Higher property taxes needed, particularly on unused property. It stops landlords sitting on property trying to accumulate wealth through price increases.

Unfortunately many of the vocal people protesting here were/are anti property taxes...

How dare a person invest in an asset and expect to profit through capital appreciation!

blackwhite · 12-09-2018 6:31pm

Pete Moss wrote: »

Protesters now having a sit down at the junction of O'Connell Street, Parnell Street and Parnell Square.

No buses or Luas trams can get by, or any other traffic.

Back to targetting the actual workers again - might as well take their frustrations out on the people who fund their lifestyles :rolleyes:

Scumbags always gonna be scum I guess - and their like-minded supporters will defend them to the hilt no matter what

JupiterKid · 12-09-2018 6:32pm

I support the protestors as the housing situation is a complete scandal and emergency.

Lots of bitter "I'm All Right Jack" responses on this thread - Quelle Surprise!!:rolleyes:

12-09-2018 6:33pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I support the protestors as the housing situation is a complete scandal and emergency.

Lots of bitter "I'm All Right Jack" responses on this thread - Quelle Surprise!!:rolleyes:

can u be both bitter and im all right?

use better clichés

Trasna1 · 12-09-2018 6:37pm

So these useless wasters are the reason there's no buses to get home?

12-09-2018 6:38pm

Trasna1 wrote: »

So these useless wasters are the reason there's no buses to get home?

yep

remember them at the ballot box

dead weight lobbying for their rights to a free ride

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:41pm

knipex wrote: »

To be honest first thought when I saw this was "about time."And I'm pretty certain I wasn't the only one.

No doubt, hence this painful, largely redundant discussion.

knipex wrote: »

Same lefty whinging professional protesters who demand rights and ignore responsibilities and contribute nothing.. Sick to the teeth of watching them ride roughshod over the rule of law and grab all the media hype and then when someone attempts to enforce the law they scream harassment.

The owners of this property have kept it empty for over 3 years. 3 years in which rents have exploded, property prices risen beyond all control, and thousands of children have ended up in homelessness. If you want to talk about rights and responsibility perhaps start there, you know, with the people with actual power to help alleviate this problem.

knipex wrote: »

I remember watching those Jobstown prats standing on stage with a fake noose around their necks, fake blindfold over their heads and fake handcuffs behind their backs decrying the brutality of the state and raising funds while the same state was paying for their defense.. How my phone screen survived I will never know..

Do you remember also the Gardaí who testified in the Jobstown trial? Who were caught demonstrably lying. Whose testimony was so corrupted that the jury were instructed to ignore it?

jobbridge4life · 12-09-2018 6:46pm

seamus wrote: »

It's pretty redundant though.

There isn't a day goes by that it's not on the news, that Sinn Fein isn't filing a no-confidence motion, or there's some new survey about rental prices, or some new homeless figures.

This is not a hidden issue that is being ignored or covered up and needs heavy-handed activism to keep it in the public consciousness.

And yet we've been being told by our masters that this problem can't be solved overnight since the death of Jonathan Corrie literally years ago.

Something being in the public consciousness is not nearly the same as the Government actually taking the necessary actions to resolve the problem. IF the problem were resolved there wouldn't be a national emergency in housing (by the Government's own account), there wouldn't be countless buildings being left unoccupied and to rot, while children grow up in hotels. I get that plenty of people don't want to care or give a sh!t, in fact so do the protesters. That is the point of protesting.

The Frederick St protest and reaction

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