Victory for electoral fraud

Going Strong · 23-05-2015 12:02pm

seamus wrote: »

The numbers who actually came home just to vote is likely to be four figures at most. Logistically you just can't get tens of thousands of people into the country over a 24 hour period unless you put on a lot of extra boats and planes.

They should have put on extra waambulances for No voters.

pablomakaveli · 23-05-2015 12:02pm

stefanovich wrote: »

It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.

I wonder would you have been as outraged if the No vote won.

To Elland Back · 23-05-2015 12:02pm

In fairness, we have a system that doesn't serve to get a true representation from those that want to participate. Many people are away from their usual polling booths because of work, college or holidays. Many are unable to get to their polling booth through age or health related issues. Many who re-register to a convenient polling station, also continue to get a polling card at their original home.

System is seriously flawed. Postal voting and swiping your PPS card to get a paper voting slip is the answer

aaakev · 23-05-2015 12:11pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Under section 5 of the Electoral Act 1963, it states:

(4) For the purposes of this section—

(a) a person shall be deemed not to have given up ordinary residence if he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up,

(b) a written statement by a person that he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up shall, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, be conclusive evidence of that fact.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0019/sec0005.html

Those non resident for 18 months or who are non resident and plan to continue to be so for 18 months should not have voted yesterday.

I know a few people that came home to vote, none gone more tha 18 months. op picked a number out of the sky and accused them of breaking the law, a number which if the reports are anything to go by is going to be irrelevant to the outcome

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:11pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Fair play to them for using their vote, whatever way they vote. I know a lot of people, my own brother included, that was born here, schooled here, employed here, pay thousands of euro in tax here every year, and they have no say in the running of the country because they don't actually live here. I, for one, think that is wrong.

Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:15pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I wonder would you have been as outraged if the No vote won.

I wonder would the media be lavishing praise on those citizens coming home if they were Irish Americans from red states. It's not about the result. It's not about what way they were likely to vote. It's that it was happening and all our politicians and media outlets celebrated it.

Nymeria · 23-05-2015 12:16pm

stefanovich wrote: »

It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.

Did you bring this up at the last referendum in 2013? if not, why not? Surely there would have been similar 'shenanigans' going on then, by your assertion of how widespread it is.

Or is it simply the content of this referendum that bothers you...

The Backwards Man · 23-05-2015 12:17pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?

I think an Irish citizen who works abroad for an Irish company and paying Irish tax should have a say in how the country is run. Do you think that they shouldn't?

pablomakaveli · 23-05-2015 12:20pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?

Well i'm an emigrant and gone much longer than 18 months and i completely accept i no longr have the right to vote. I don't contribute to Ireland in taxes anymore and won't be returning for the foreseeable future. However there are some who are away for much shorter periods, for education or work, who do intend to return and they should be allowed vote and thats covered by the 18 month rule.

MathDebater wrote: »

I wonder would the media be lavishing praise on those citizens coming home if they were Irish Americans from red states. It's not about the result. It's not about what way they were likely to vote. It's that it was happening and all our politicians and media outlets celebrated it.

But that didn't happen and couldn't happen because they'd never have been resident in Ireland. Again no proof that those that did return were gone longer than 18 months.

Cold War Kid · 23-05-2015 12:20pm

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

How has it highlighted this?

Although I did see some genius here on After Hours posting up a photo they took of their own ballot paper with a "X" in the No box.

stefanovich wrote: »

That is in fact incorrect. If they are out of the country more than 18 months they are breaking the law if they vote.

If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.

How could you possibly have been breaking the law if you went to the polling station, presented yourself and your I.D./document, your name was crossed off the list and you were handed your balloting papers?

I know the

symbol can be annoying (when it's used disingenuously) but sometimes there really is no other symbol...

ronivek · 23-05-2015 12:21pm

MathDebater wrote: »

I wonder would the media be lavishing praise on those citizens coming home if they were Irish Americans from red states. It's not about the result. It's not about what way they were likely to vote. It's that it was happening and all our politicians and media outlets celebrated it.

They were celebrating the fact people actually gave a **** about voting. In fact; that people cared so much that they even travelled across the world and used up time off work to do so.

But you go ahead and get your panties in a twist over an antiquated voting law which sets an arbitrary limit to the amount of time you can seemingly be considered "Irish" for the purposes of a referendum.

mikom · 23-05-2015 12:22pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Am I saying that?? All I am saying is that the system church is insecure and broken.

Fixed your post.

AdamD · 23-05-2015 12:23pm

The taste of salt is palpable

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:26pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

But that didn't happen and couldn't happen because they'd never have been resident in Ireland. Again no proof that those that did return were gone longer than 18 months.

A lot of them openly stated how long they have been gone for on RTE! For example, agroup of lads said that they have been living in London for eight years and returned to vote.

Señor Fancy Pants · 23-05-2015 12:27pm

Tis a great day for Ireland and human rights. Ya don't like it, may I suggest you move to sunny Turkmenistan.

donegaLroad · 23-05-2015 12:27pm

where the figure of 66,000 come from. It sounds like a hell of a lot to me

Mesrine65 · 23-05-2015 12:28pm

I hear Ashgabat is lovely this time of year.

Not a NSA agent · 23-05-2015 12:29pm

donegaLroad wrote: »

where the figure of 66,000 come from. It sounds like a hell of a lot to me

Its the number of people who registered to vote I believe.

All of them are evil foreigners and people who havent lived in the country for years of course according to the OP.

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:29pm

ronivek wrote: »

But you go ahead and get your panties in a twist over an antiquated voting law which sets an arbitrary limit to the amount of time you can seemingly be considered "Irish" for the purposes of a referendum.

Nothing antiquated about the electoral act. With the number of Irish born emigrants and Irish citizens by descent around the world, if we allowed them to vote they could potentially have more of a say in the running of the Irish state than the Irish citizens actually living here.

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:31pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

And the polling station guy/gal would have presumably sad "Sorry folks, your name's not down, you're not comin' in."

Do you think people are automatically struck off the electoral register once they leave the state or something?

emigrate2012 · 23-05-2015 12:36pm

stefanovich wrote: »

It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.

Crawl back under your rock ffs,any proof of these shenanigans??? 14 odd hours after the ballot and you're slinging some serious sh!t there pal....

If I were to marry a bloke tommorow, what DIRECT effect would it have on YOU??
Nothing whatsoever.....
The people have spoken, equality for all at last.

Look outside,it's a beautiful day go out and enjoy it and stop stirring sh!the.

I for one am gonna go into the city tonight, cos there's gonna be one hell of a hooley!!!!

pablomakaveli · 23-05-2015 12:38pm

MathDebater wrote: »

A lot of them openly stated how long they have been gone for on RTE! For example, agroup of lads said that they have been living in London for eight years and returned to vote.

Report them for electoral fraud then. Doesn't invalidate the rights of those who were entitled to vote returning and doing so.

pmasterson95 · 23-05-2015 12:38pm

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics

but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest

.

Cold War Kid · 23-05-2015 12:39pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Do you think people are automatically struck off the electoral register once they leave the state or something?

You need your polling card. Why the absolute longing to believe there were polling booth shenanigans?

Triangla · 23-05-2015 12:40pm

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

Is there a figure on non residents who came home to vote no?

IMHO if you have an Irish passport you should have a right to vote in every election.

jaymcg91 · 23-05-2015 12:40pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

You need your polling card. Why the absolute longing to believe there were polling booth shenanigans?

Because hateful people are desperate to believe their stance isn't shared by the "silent" majority

. Obviously not such a majority

.

pablomakaveli · 23-05-2015 12:40pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics

but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest .

The Yes campaign for SSM weren't involved in the presidency age vote so why are you blaming it on them?

Cold War Kid · 23-05-2015 12:42pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics

Like what? And what about the no campaign ones? Oh they're ok because you agree with them.

but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest .

The flaws of your "hypocrisy" bullsh-t argument have been exposed numerous times. People aged 21 just out of college are not deemed suitable for any job, so it's hardly unreasonable not to consider them suitable for being a senior civil servant/diplomat.
Adults who want to marry each other should be able to marry each other.

You disapprove of homosexuality as is your right, but resorting to nonsense arguments is pointless.

Call Me Jimmy · 23-05-2015 12:42pm

Every last straw shall be clutched before you can rest OP? Best of luck

pmasterson95 · 23-05-2015 12:43pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The Yes campaign for SSM weren't involved in the presidency age vote so why are you blaming it on them?

The yes campaign are screaming how everyone is treated equal now. Thats clearly false but ya cant expect them on two soapboxes at once. Its funny.

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:43pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

You need your polling card. Why the absolute longing to believe there were polling booth shenanigans?

Because people admitted to it on the Finnucane show this morning and when being interviewed by RTE. Again, how would the state know that youre not resident and fail to issue a polling card to your address?

pmasterson95 · 23-05-2015 12:44pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Like what? And what about the no campaign ones? Oh they're ok because you agree with them.

The flaws of your "hypocrisy" bullsh-t argument have been exposed numerous times. People aged 21 just out of college are not deemed suitable for any job, so it's hardly unreasonable not to consider them suitable for being a senior civil servant/diplomat.
Adults who want to marry each other should be able to marry each other.

You disapprove of homosexuality as is your right, but resorting to nonsense arguments is pointless.

Not suitable for any job? What about having a 1.1 degree? Its called ageism to discriminate based on age but ah shur we equality leaders now.

ronivek · 23-05-2015 12:46pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Nothing antiquated about the electoral act. With the number of Irish born emigrants and Irish citizens by descent around the world, if we allowed them to vote they could potentially have more of a say in the running of the Irish state than the Irish citizens actually living here.

Considering the amount of travel that professionals are in many cases required to do these days, and considering the fact we've just come out of a recession which forced many people abroad whether they really wanted to or not; I'm inclined to disagree with you about its relevance.

In any event you are correct that it is illegal; but at the same time you have virtually no evidence that even one person actually voted illegally.

Penny Tration · 23-05-2015 12:46pm

How about the no voters suck it up and stop throwing tantrums?

If you feel laws have been broken, go to the police.

Otherwise, shut up and accept you lost

emigrate2012 · 23-05-2015 12:46pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics

but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest .

I voted yes for that,but tbh it's obvious that people think 21 is too young/immature to be president annnnd they're probably right.I think the whole marriage thing is a much bigger issue for equal rights no?
Its a democratic referendum, the people have voted get over,you've no yes/no side to attack,it looks like it's gonna pass.get over it.

Anita Blow · 23-05-2015 12:46pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

What it has shown is the hypocrisy more than anything. The yes campaigns dirty preachy tactics

but even funnier they scream for equality for all. Yet its obvious they only mean for the gays. If your under 35 you dont deserve to be treated equally and have a chance of presidency. That has been trounced. Now they say how great we are at treating people equally. Hypocritical bandwagon jumping at its finest .

Idiotic post. In what way are the two related?

retro:electro · 23-05-2015 12:47pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

The yes campaign are screaming how everyone is treated equal now. Thats clearly false but ya cant expect them on two soapboxes at once. Its funny.

In terms of having equal legal regnition yes now we are all equal.
Going by your logic we should reduce the drinking age to 12 so shall we? Ya know equality and all that. How about age of consent? Sure we might as well let everyone have a go.
Ejit.

Captain Chaos · 23-05-2015 12:47pm

pmasterson95 wrote: »

The yes campaign are screaming how everyone is treated equal now. Thats clearly false but ya cant expect them on two soapboxes at once. Its funny.

It is equal everyone can once they are 35. Same as you legally become an adult under Irish law at 18.

You'd probably question who has the right to decide that age. It could be 17,19 or 21 but it's 18 and it's 18 for everyone.

You can't join the army or get a drivers license until you are 17, you want to lower that age for equality?

There is your quality.

mikom · 23-05-2015 12:48pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ4Y7tgK4JI

Depraved · 23-05-2015 12:48pm

I'm thinking that this thread would not have been created had the 'No' campaign been successful.

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 12:52pm

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

How about the no voters suck it up and stop throwing tantrums?

If you feel laws have been broken, go to the police.

Otherwise, shut up and accept you lost

The result is not in question. I'm happy that the yes side won and life moves on. The issue is voter fraud and the media and politicians thinking it a great thing altogether. What happens next time if this craic goes on and the result is much closer ala the divorce referendum '95?

Forget about yes side or no side for a minute and look at the more longterm picture. The electoral register is a mess and wide open to abuse. It needs to be sorted out.

I have reported four people and it will be looked into. If they find that fraud electoral fraud has been committed then they will bring it to the AGs attention and go from there.

Penny Tration · 23-05-2015 12:56pm

MathDebater wrote: »

The result is not in question. I'm happy that the yes side won and life moves on. The issue is voter fraud and the media and politicians thinking it a great thing altogether. What happens next time if this craic goes on and the result is much closer ala the divorce referendum '95?

Forget about yes side or no side for a minute and look at the more longterm picture. The electoral register is a mess and wide open to abuse. It needs to be sorted out.

I have reported four people and it will be looked into. If they find that fraud electoral fraud has been committed then they will bring it to the AGs attention and go from there.

Of course you're happy the yes side won. I totally believe that.

Like I said - report it instead of moaning to people who don't really care very much

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 1:00pm

Moan about corruption and fraud in Irish politics constantly. Ignore voter fraud when it 'benefits' your 'side'. The no side would have done the exact same too.

It's a joke.

renegademaster · 23-05-2015 1:02pm

wil wrote: »

The Gathering 2013 Home for the craic
The Gathering 2015 Home to vote
What'll they call the next episode?

The gathering 2016 Home to kick the rot out of Irish politics

Cold War Kid · 23-05-2015 1:04pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Moan about corruption and fraud in Irish politics constantly. Ignore voter fraud when it 'benefits' your 'side'.

What voter fraud?

galljga1 · 23-05-2015 1:04pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Moan about corruption and fraud in Irish politics constantly. Ignore voter fraud when it 'benefits' your 'side'. The no side would have done the exact same too.

It's a joke.

No one is laughing, just getting bored.

renegademaster · 23-05-2015 1:07pm

stefanovich wrote: »

What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

Way back when this recession kicked in ff said that on top of "a few billion" needed for the banks 200,000 Irish people had to emigrate to take the pressure off the state

You have no right to say anything about those who were forced into emigrating for work and the fact they came home at their own expense to help bring about a change!

pablomakaveli · 23-05-2015 1:07pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Moan about corruption and fraud in Irish politics constantly. Ignore voter fraud when it 'benefits' your 'side'. The no side would have done the exact same too.

It's a joke.

I'm not saying it should be dismissed out of hand. Those that fraudently voted should be punished as it mocks the system and tarnishes the result. But it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelmingly majority of votes were valid and those who did so weren't in big enough numbers to effect the outcome.

MathDebater · 23-05-2015 1:08pm

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What voter fraud?

Have you read the thread or just jumped in?

Under section 5 of the Electoral Act 1963, it states:

(4) For the purposes of this section—

(a) a person shall be deemed not to have given up ordinary residence if he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up,

(b) a written statement by a person that he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up shall, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, be conclusive evidence of that fact.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0019/sec0005.html

Anyone who voted yesterday and who has not been resident for 18 months or who is not resident and does not plan to return within 18 months from the date that they left, should not have done so.

Cold War Kid · 23-05-2015 1:10pm

MathDebater wrote: »

Have you read the thread or just jumped in?

Anyone who voted yesterday and who has not been resident for 18 months or who is not resident and does not plan to return within 18 months from the date that they left should not have done so.

How could they have voted so?! It's really strict at the polling booths. Mother of god. Coming here doesn't mean they actually got to vote in the end, ffs.

Victory for electoral fraud

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