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Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

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  • Options
    #2222
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    An easy way is put lights on your bike or yourself! Why do we need to sanitise and suburbify countryside?

    I can't really answer your question, because I don't agree with its premise. Good luck to you with your lights though, let me know how that works out for you ;)


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    #2223
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    An easy way is put lights on your bike or yourself! Why do we need to sanitise and suburbify countryside?


    East%2BCoast%2BGreenway.png

    You mean like this outrageous scheme that will turn Newcastle and Killoughter into the Wicklow Riviera and bring a projected 400k people trampling/biking/wheelchairing and buggy pushing through an unspoilt area of sensitive natural beauty.

    ****



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    #2224
    windows 7 home premium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭windows 7 home premium


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    [IMG]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bUSNoNwKr9s/YC734-qEw0I/AAAAAAAAmkk/fXIwrfjc_YQX2EmGWsQI9UoliZWkkLkmACLcBGAsYHQ/s714/East+Coast+Greenway.png You mean like this outrageous scheme that will turn Newcastle and Killoughter into the Wicklow Riviera and bring a projected 400k people trampling/biking/wheelchairing and buggy pushing through an unspoilt area of sensitive natural beauty.[/img]
    Whoever designed that image needs some photoshop lessons lol.

    I agree with you though, I hate the idea of an unspoiled area being smothered in tarmac and over-developed.


  • Options
    #2225
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Wait till you lot hear about these things called roads...


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    #2226
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,736 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    East%2BCoast%2BGreenway.png

    You mean like this outrageous scheme that will turn Newcastle and Killoughter into the Wicklow Riviera and bring a projected 400k people trampling/biking/wheelchairing and buggy pushing through an unspoilt area of sensitive natural beauty.

    that's a terrible artists impression of a proposal that has literally no solid plans in place yet. The unspoilt area it's planned to run on is man-made coastal defences alongside a working railway. I wouldn't support anything like that image either, but I'm not going to make a decision until I've seen what the actual plan is. Most of the complaints I've seen about it are along the lines of "I like walking here, I don't want it spoiled by other people walking".


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    #2227
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    East%2BCoast%2BGreenway.png

    You mean like this outrageous scheme that will turn Newcastle and Killoughter into the Wicklow Riviera and bring a projected 400k people trampling/biking/wheelchairing and buggy pushing through an unspoilt area of sensitive natural beauty.

    I actually think that is a fantastic idea compared to what is there now. Though i do think a wee bit don from Kilcoole you've some majorly protected bird species. Can't remember the name.


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    #2228
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,742 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I can't really answer your question, because I don't agree with its premise. Good luck to you with your lights though, let me know how that works out for you ;)

    Amazingly, some people would like countryside and wild places to stay as they are, not tarted up into something resembling a golf course. People complain when farmers or Irish Rail cut hedgerows and vegetation excessively, but they don't have a problem with supposed "greenways" doing likewise.

    This glowing pathway sounds gimmicky, plus there may be issues around wildlife and the effects of unwanted lighting.


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    #2229
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Amazingly, some people would like countryside and wild places to stay as they are, not tarted up into something resembling a golf course. People complain when farmers or Irish Rail cut hedgerows and vegetation excessively, but they don't have a problem with supposed "greenways" doing likewise.

    This glowing pathway sounds gimmicky, plus there may be issues around wildlife and the effects of unwanted lighting.

    Like I said, wait until you hear about roads!


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    #2230
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    I actually think that is a fantastic idea compared to what is there now. Though i do think a wee bit don from Kilcoole you've some majorly protected bird species. Can't remember the name.


    What's there now is a largely unspoilt, lightly used coastal path. The birds you refer to are Little Terns https://birdwatchireland.ie/birds/little-tern/ , but all year round the area on both sides of the railway is important for a huge variety of wildlife. I fear that between CIE's coastal defence work, the proposed Greenway and the seeming indifference shown by Birdwatch Ireland that the area is going to be wrecked.

    ****



  • Options
    #2231
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Wait till you lot hear about these things called roads...

    Everyones an ECO warrior while they drive on hundreds of kilometres of heavy duty road construction in their fumey 2 tonne SUVs to get to their favorite beauty spot.


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    #2232
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    "How dare they spoil this untouched wilderness" says local man who drives a diesel


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    #2233
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,742 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Like I said, wait until you hear about roads!

    Excellent whataboutery.


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    #2234
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The Petition page says;
    Wexford Bicycle User Group (WexBUG) would like a section of the greenway path, dedicated to absorb sunrays by day so that it can light up at night, thereby illuminating the way for people walking and on their bicycles.

    Presumably this will be at one end in the already developed urban area and not spoil untouched wilderness or sanitise and suburbify the countryside.


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    #2235
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    MJohnston wrote: »
    "How dare they spoil this untouched wilderness" says local man who drives a diesel


    I doubt your referring to me but if you are you're mixing me up with someone else as I haven't driven in decades and the last thing that I drove was a narrow gauge Wickham railcar. :D

    ****



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    #2236
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Excellent whataboutery.

    It's not whataboutery because greenways, if formed into an extensive network, will actually reduce the reliance on the car as a means of getting around the country. So while I vaguely sympathise with the idea that more tarmac can seem a bit invasive, I don't think it's exaggerating to say that the direct alternative is more cars on the road, which is far more destructive to wildlife and the wilderness.


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    #2237
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The forum could do with renaming from Infrastructure to Roads + Greenways.

    Greenways are infrastructures.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #2238
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Lads could you start/resurrect another thread for actually discussing the line itself? No issue with discussions of alternate routings of the greenway but its getting away from that a bit...


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    #2239
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: I have moved the Wexford Waterford line discussion to a new thread.

    Regards


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    #2240
    millb
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭millb


    Many routes are linear, the benefit of a 30 to 70 km circular route is obvious and here is a Central Kildare Circular Route that includes the Grand Canal / Barrow Blueway / River Liffey.

    The important starting on-route villages / towns include Naas, Sallins, Robertstown, Milltown and Newbridge / Athgarvan.

    This circular route could be well progressed and lobbied-for as the Central Kildare Circular Greenway / Cycleway Route.

    l35u92W
    https://imgur.com/a/l35u92W [IMG][/img]


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    #2241
    nilhg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭nilhg


    millb wrote: »
    Many routes are linear, the benefit of a 30 to 70 km circular route is obvious and here is a Central Kildare Circular Route that includes the Grand Canal / Barrow Blueway / River Liffey.

    The important starting on-route villages / towns include Naas, Sallins, Robertstown, Milltown and Newbridge / Athgarvan.

    This circular route could be well progressed and lobbied-for as the Central Kildare Circular Greenway / Cycleway Route.

    l35u92W
    https://imgur.com/a/l35u92W [IMG][/img]

    Interesting concept but I'm not sure how the proposed sections through Pollardstown Fen, along the railway or down along the Liffey bank would work?

    The feeder canal from the Fen through Milltown and on to Lowtown is very well used and was busy when I went across that way yesterday.

    I think it would be easier to link to the Curragh and onwards than use the railway and riverbank?

    Would be intersted to see if any technical work has been done on this plan.


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    #2242
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    nilhg wrote: »
    Interesting concept but I'm not sure how the proposed sections through Pollardstown Fen, along the railway or down along the Liffey bank would work?

    The feeder canal from the Fen through Milltown and on to Lowtown is very well used and was busy when I went across that way yesterday.

    I think it would be easier to link to the Curragh and onwards than use the railway and riverbank?

    Would be intersted to see if any technical work has been done on this plan.

    My initial drawings just followed a stream I could see heading towards Newbridge (With regards to the Fen) I would probably change that to a Quietway link along the road between the Fen and Newbridge.

    Regarding the Liffey section, not sure what the terrain is like between Athgarvan and Newbridge, I mainly put that in as a way to link Corbally to Newbridge, and I don't know if Corbally branch should be turned into a full greenway (At least, not as a priority). A more direct Naas to Newbridge route should be the first order of business.

    I don't see a barrier to along the railway routes apart from IE being precious with their land for expansion. It is the busiest main line though, so I can see it being less pleasant than, say, a cycleway alongside the Limerick to Waterford Line. Those sections would be purely to better connect commuters with local stations though so not really a touristic concept.


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    #2243
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I assume the longer the overall route is ,the more value it is from a pure tourist point of view ,
    You'd travel quite a distance to do a wexford to cork greenway cycle for instance ( or even better to west cork or kerry ) , with daytrippers and more locals more likely to use the popular sections ,
    I assume it'll take quite a lot of imagination to join up a lot of these sections ...
    Are the quietways that someone above mentioned above actually a thing ? Or just a maybe ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Options
    #2244
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    "Quietways" exist in the UK in Cities, they are a good idea, basically stringing together a series of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods into a through route for pedestrians and Cyclists. The Active School Travel routes in Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown would be an example of this being attempted in Ireland, looking at the existing mix of parks, residential streets, entries/alleys between roads and working out what changes are needed to make a cohesive route connecting them (Not least advertising/signposting the full route so people know they can actually get where they need to go.)

    Outside of towns and cities this concept is being developed by Cyclist.ie as 'Rothar Roads', not sure if its a finalised concept but its a good name and hopefully helps something effective to coalesce


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    #2245
    nilhg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭nilhg


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    My initial drawings just followed a stream I could see heading towards Newbridge (With regards to the Fen) I would probably change that to a Quietway link along the road between the Fen and Newbridge.

    Regarding the Liffey section, not sure what the terrain is like between Athgarvan and Newbridge, I mainly put that in as a way to link Corbally to Newbridge, and I don't know if Corbally branch should be turned into a full greenway (At least, not as a priority). A more direct Naas to Newbridge route should be the first order of business.

    I don't see a barrier to along the railway routes apart from IE being precious with their land for expansion. It is the busiest main line though, so I can see it being less pleasant than, say, a cycleway alongside the Limerick to Waterford Line. Those sections would be purely to better connect commuters with local stations though so not really a touristic concept.

    I'd very much doubt the practicalities (or even the wisdom) of running something like a greenway down through the middle of the Fen, the stream you refer to is I think a drainage channel to feed the canal and has no towpath along it, there is a towpath on the Curragh side of the canal though. There's a small picnic sres with a couple of benches at the end of that and it would probably be possible to join up with the carpark for the current walkway out into the Fen and on out onto the road and towards Newbridge.

    I'm pretty sure all of the land along the Liffey between the Gables at Kilbelin on the edge of Newbridge and Athgarvan is in private ownership, and some of it has considerable development potential, especially if the planned bridge was built to facilitate a road connecting Kelbelin and the roundabout at Great Connell, the planning process might allow the council to try and have some sort of cycling facilities provided but alot of things would have to fall into place to get a full link.

    A Newbridge to Naas off road cycling link isn't going to be easy to provide, the canal from Corbally would have helped but it's the wrong side of the Motorways from Newbridge.


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    #2246
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    nilhg wrote: »
    I'd very much doubt the practicalities (or even the wisdom) of running something like a greenway down through the middle of the Fen, the stream you refer to is I think a drainage channel to feed the canal and has no towpath along it, there is a towpath on the Curragh side of the canal though. There's a small picnic sres with a couple of benches at the end of that and it would probably be possible to join up with the carpark for the current walkway out into the Fen and on out onto the road and towards Newbridge.

    I'm pretty sure all of the land along the Liffey between the Gables at Kilbelin on the edge of Newbridge and Athgarvan is in private ownership, and some of it has considerable development potential, especially if the planned bridge was built to facilitate a road connecting Kelbelin and the roundabout at Great Connell, the planning process might allow the council to try and have some sort of cycling facilities provided but alot of things would have to fall into place to get a full link.

    A Newbridge to Naas off road cycling link isn't going to be easy to provide, the canal from Corbally would have helped but it's the wrong side of the Motorways from Newbridge.

    Updated my map with a more 'viable' option for Athgarvan/Newbridge and Newbridge to Pollardstown.

    I think an 'on road' option should be possible from Newbridge to Naas (and Caragh/Sallins). The Naas/Newbridge dual carriageway wouldn't be the nicest option (there are a few potential side roads) but maybe its worth looking at options for reducing the width of the Naas Newbridge road to get land take for a cycleway?


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    #2247
    nilhg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭nilhg


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    Updated my map with a more 'viable' option for Athgarvan/Newbridge and Newbridge to Pollardstown.

    I think an 'on road' option should be possible from Newbridge to Naas (and Caragh/Sallins). The Naas/Newbridge dual carriageway wouldn't be the nicest option (there are a few potential side roads) but maybe its worth looking at options for reducing the width of the Naas Newbridge road to get land take for a cycleway?

    I think Newbridge-Naas is one of those situations where commuting has to be considered as important as leisure especially when you consider there's a large retail/commercial park right between the two, I think there's an obvious need for dedicated cycling facilities on that road, though it's a great pity they weren't put in at the Naas end as part of the M7 works.

    A friend of mine commutes Kildare Town to Naas most days by bike on the old N7 and doesn't pass much remark on traffic issues, I must ask him again how he finds it with the M7 upgrade substancially complete.


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    #2248
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    There is a road parallel to the R445 being developed with cycle lanes allow it isn't anything like a greenway. It could be continued towards Naas through industrial estates, which would be fine and indeed good for commuting but not attractive for leisure cycling. Lidl had to provide another section of the road when building their new distribution centre;

    Lidl%20RDC%20Newbridge%2026.08.2019%20-%20%2007.jpg

    This is to be continued west and further facilities are to be provided as part of housing developments. The Kilbelin SHD is to create a path along the western side of the Liffey. Unfortunately the SHD website is gone so we have to rely on the Kildare Co Co website, hope this link works (search File Number:18302141 if not);

    http://idocsweb.kildarecoco.ie/iDocsWebDPSS/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=2127099&format=jpeg


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    #2249
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭Qrt


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    "Quietways" exist in the UK in Cities, they are a good idea, basically stringing together a series of Low Traffic Neighbourhoods into a through route for pedestrians and Cyclists. The Active School Travel routes in Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown would be an example of this being attempted in Ireland, looking at the existing mix of parks, residential streets, entries/alleys between roads and working out what changes are needed to make a cohesive route connecting them (Not least advertising/signposting the full route so people know they can actually get where they need to go.)

    Outside of towns and cities this concept is being developed by Cyclist.ie as 'Rothar Roads', not sure if its a finalised concept but its a good name and hopefully helps something effective to coalesce

    I’d love quietways in Ireland but with the only one attempted so far being the Rathgar one...eep.


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    #2250
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Greenway Map is getting some updates, I'm working my way through the Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network Plan specifically the rural routes at the minute. Seems like a good time to make some noise about this plan with all the new funding floating around. Would be great to get updated cycling guidelines soon so they cant be waved off with some substandard guff though.


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    #2251
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Seen this great news posted in the Kildare forum!!

    https://kfmradio.com/news/12032021-1137/%E2%82%AC37m-allocated-royal-canal-greenway-between-maynooth-leixlip?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork


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