Dublin - BusConnects

Kevtherev1 · 27-06-2018 12:15pm

Qrt wrote: »

I really don't think he can be described as "leftist" in any way, shape or form.

This I can agree on. Fine Gael don't seem to do...much at all? Donohue must be one of the most reclusive finance ministers we've ever had.

What i mean is Leo is constantly virtue signaling to the leftist political ideology in his actions. This virtue signaling can now be seen in all actions the government takes.

loyatemu · 27-06-2018 1:10pm

we have a politics forum for this crap.

Sam Russell · 27-06-2018 2:44pm

Mod: Politics is >>>>> That away!

This is about infrastructure. The only politics allowed is Nymbyism and Parishpumpism - as practised by many politicos.

marno21 · 28-06-2018 1:23am

NTA have tendered for infrastructure director for the BusConnects scheme

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=131258&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

fly_agaric · 30-06-2018 1:12pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's just nonsense.

And you think that everything happens in the Park in some sort of bubble whereby the locals don't enjoy it?

Nice little earner for the State rather than the city? What is thatmeant to mean at all? And why would you think DCC would do a better job at "managing" the Park?

When paid events close off the park no one except the patrons can use it. Other events also cause sections of the park and its roads to be put out of use for anyone except the participants. That's less irritating to me than the paid events though.
The earner comment was a sly dig I suppose, but assume OPW must charge a hefty fee when the park is used private events like pop concerts.
Surely they don't just give it to the promoters/event managers for nothing?

The park is a big chunk of land and roads almost in the centre of Dublin.
The OPW are yet another state body sharing part of responsibility for poor transport for in Dublin. Whetever about effectiveness of DCC, reducing number of quangos etc involved in transport in Dublin would be a good thing IMO.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Why so against teh "closures" at the weekend? Does it interfere with your race through it?

Ha, I don't race. Given your irritation here, you're probably the kind of driver who is crawling up my exhaust pipe because I'm not breaking the speed limit by at least 10 km/hr. It has caused me trouble as the closures of the roads are random & I forget to keep an eye on what events are on. Section of road I've needed to use is usually not closed though, unless its some very large event.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Running passenger service buses (tours already use it) through the park is a no go and tbh very stupid. For starters as soon as you get out of the park (NS) you hit Castleknock and then what? Have huge queues of buses waiting to get through teh one-way gate at the top of Cherstefield Avenue.

Would have thought it would be good for express type services from Blanchardstown and beyond that are not stopping till they get close to city centre. Especially if cars were banned from the main avenue
It is not beyond abilities to change gate layout to take 2 lanes.

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They would be better served fixing up the Blackhorse Avenue priority and the road itself which is a disgrace and allowing the 37 travel the full length of it to Aughrim St rather than that mental diversion via the Navan Road and then Skreen Road. That should come first before the amount of work that would have to be done to allow buses to use the Phoenix Park as a commuter channel.

Maybe my memory of this route is incorrect, but fixing that properly not need use of part of the Phoenix Park for new bus lanes on that route (as opposed to CPOing hundreds of houses and some blocks of flats)? Doubt the OPW would like it!

Heartbreak Hank · 01-07-2018 9:28am

Jarrett Walker on Twitter:

Just arrived in #Dublin. Big announcement Monday about a new bus network for Ireland's capital!

https://twitter.com/humantransit/status/1013019485509472256?s=21

dublinman1990 · 01-07-2018 4:20pm

I just read a very interesting update from dublinbuses.com about the hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus.

Updated 26 June...Nine hybrid buses are expected to be trialled by Dublin Bus during 2018 and 2019. They will be supplied by three manufacturers and used on one specific route. A full order of a quantity of hybrid buses is expected approximately a year later.

http://dublinbuses.com/

I hope that we will hear more details from Jarret Walker tomorrow about these new buses. It is possible with this figure of new hybrid buses that it is not going to be continue from Wrights if two more manufacturers are involved. There could be a possibility here that other manufacturers could overtake Wrights as being the main winner of this new hybrid trial once the tests are finished sometime next year. This is really big news to take in from Dublin Bus & the NTA, If the other manufacturers overtake Wrights with a significant new order of hybrid buses; this will suggests to us that the relationship Wrights & Dublin Bus will be changing to more of a possible maintenance role for their remaining vehicles with Dublin Bus. This relationship with Wrights & Dublin Bus has currently in place for 10 years. We hear a lot from posters on boards that the SGs are not very favourable with lots of Dublin Bus drivers. The quality of the Wrights vehicles with Dublin Bus over those 10 years have been a mix of good and bad. The VGs & GTs have notably had a really positive mood among both drivers & passengers alike. The SGs have been the biggest failures for this current tenure of operating in Dublin. They are slow, clunky & their build quality have been really poor.

Wrights still has strong relationships in place for the future, through the NTA, with other operators Bus Eireann & Go-Ahead Ireland. But most of us here don't know how much longer that relationship with Wrights is going to last with Go Ahead Ireland. This is because they have yet begun their running their Irish operations yet from their new depot in Ballymount. I'm not sure of the current status of Bus Eireann's relationship with Wrights becuase I very rarely use their services. The last time that I had used their service as a passenger was in 2004 when going between Wicklow Town & Busaras.

For any bus passenger or driver going around Dublin right now while being stuck with the new SGs for a good few years. This to them sounds like great news as there were knowingly fed up with how these buses have increased the likelihood of having slow unreliable services for years because of increasing traffic issues in Dublin since the Luas Cross City is now here and because of increasing unreliability within their own fleet making some of their scheduled bus services becoming cancelled due to increased breakdowns.

If you were contemplating having nine hybrid buses for Dublin Bus. We have live up to reality here that we will have a mixed bus fleet available to us when they arrive in Dublin meaning we don't know how that is going to be made up. That could become a bit of a challenge because these buses are only going on one route. What would be your preferred route for these new vehicles if you had the choice?

I would say either the 44 & 140 as my own choices here. Anyone else?

Stephen15 · 01-07-2018 4:33pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just read a very interesting update from dublinbuses.com about the hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus.

Updated 26 June...Nine hybrid buses are expected to be trialled by Dublin Bus during 2018 and 2019. They will be supplied by three manufacturers and used on one specific route. A full order of a quantity of hybrid buses is expected approximately a year later.

http://dublinbuses.com/

Interesting so they must be being introduced on a high frequency route which needs a lot of buses. Let's hope they don't suffer a similar fate to last hybrid buses.

BonnieSituation · 01-07-2018 4:37pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Interesting so they must be being introduced on a high frequency route which needs a lot of buses. Let's hope they don't suffer a similar fate to last hybrid buses.

46a so

devnull · 02-07-2018 10:45am

Report is now out from Jarrett Walker
https://busconnects.ie/media/1228/busconnects-dublin-network-redesign-summary.pdf

devnull · 02-07-2018 10:55am

Key Points

Why are we redesigning the network?
- The city is growing and we need to plan the bus network to cater for that growth.
- The current bus network is complex which makes it hard to remember and use easily.
- There are few orbital routes, making it hard to move around the outer parts of the city.
- There are many overlapping routes, where the bus services are not evenly spaced.
- There is a need to better integrate our networks of bus, trams and trains.

How will you make the network better?
- Increase the overall amount of bus services.
- Provide new and frequent orbital services connecting more outer parts of the city together.
- Simplify the bus services on the key radial into “spines” where all buses will operate under a
common letter system and buses will run very frequently and be more evenly spaced.
- Increase the number of routes where buses will come every 15 minutes or less all day.

Will we have more or less bus services?
The redesigned bus network means an increase in bus services by over one quarter (27%), with much of that increase delivering additional “all-day” services. So there will be substantially more bus services operating across the Dublin region following the network redesign.

What are the benefits of the proposed new network?
Overall the proposed new network of bus services will enable more people to travel to more places more easily. Some of the specific outcomes will be:

- Nearly one million Dublin-area residents will be located within 400 metres of a bus service operating every 15 minutes or better, an increase of about 30%.
- The number of residents located within 400 metres of public transport service operatingn every 10 minutes or better will increase by 35%.
- The number of jobs or students located within 400 metres of public transport service operating every 10 minutes or better will increase by 19%.

Will people have to change buses more?
Many people won’t need to change buses but some people will. In some cases, people whocurrently have a direct service may have to change buses to get to their destination. However,because these two buses will operate on routes with a much higher frequency of service, inmost cases people will be able to get to their destination in a shorter overall trip time.

What about the fares?
We will simplify fares across bus, Luas and DART. There will be two Leap fares:

- A “90 Minute Fare” that covers all bus, DART or Luas trips started within 90 minutes.
- This 90 Minute Fare will allow you any combination of bus, Luas and DART for your journey, subject to the last leg commencing within 90 minutes of the start of the overall trip.
- A short distance fare paid each trip for short journeys.

Cash fares will continue to be available but will be payable for each trip.

Is this proposal fully decided?
No, the National Transport Authority (NTA) has put these proposals forward for public consultation. There are details available on www.busconnects.ie and you can give your views online or by post. The public submissions period will start on Monday 16th July and run to Friday14th September.

Will there be information meetings for the public?
Yes, the NTA will be arranging a series of local information sessions at various venues around the Dublin region. Those information sessions will be staffed by both NTA personnel and by Dublin Bus personnel and people will be able to get information on their particular queries.

Details of the venues and dates will be uploaded to the website www.busconnects.ie and will also be advertised in various newspapers.

xper · 02-07-2018 1:53pm

devnull wrote: »

Report is now out from Jarrett Walker
https://busconnects.ie/media/1228/busconnects-dublin-network-redesign-summary.pdf

After a cursory browse through that doc, the first thing that jumps out at me and is a welcome surprise is just how positive the results of the initial public consultation survey are. This bodes well.

Qrt · 02-07-2018 2:19pm

I saw a tweet from an old lecturer of mine, labelling it a precursor to privatisation, and I have to agree with him (and disagree with privatisation) but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

markpb · 02-07-2018 2:27pm

Qrt wrote: »

I saw a tweet from an old lecturer of mine, labelling it a precursor to privatisation, and I have to agree with him (and disagree with privatisation) but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

That's a pretty big jump from reorganising the network to privatisation! What parts of the plan make you most worried, is it the improved frequency, changes to the ticketing or the fact that there's a plan at all?

LXFlyer · 02-07-2018 2:27pm

xper wrote: »

After a cursory browse through that doc, the first thing that jumps out at me and is a welcome surprise is just how positive the results of the initial public consultation survey are. This bodes well.

While it is positive, until people actually study the detailed plans (contained in chapter 7) and how they affect them, I’d take that initial consultation with a loose pinch of salt as it was VERY high level in nature.

On first glances there is an awful lot of good stuff in the report, but it will require a lot of in-depth reading to fully assess the strengths and weaknesses.

But what I will say is that there is a need for the associated infrastructure improvements to be put in place before these changes are implemented if people using low frequency connecting routes are to have any form of certainty about making connections off the high frequency spines. Otherwise confidence will slip away very quickly.

Amirani · 02-07-2018 2:30pm

Qrt wrote: »

I saw a tweet from an old lecturer of mine, labelling it a precursor to privatisation, and I have to agree with him (and disagree with privatisation) but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Privatisation/Tendering is already policy on the Dublin Bus network, with or without BusConnects. Naturally new routes that are created under this plan will be open to private firms to tender for.

tom1ie · 02-07-2018 2:33pm

Just wondering what is the opinion on privatization of the bus service on this forum?
Good, bad, and why.

LXFlyer · 02-07-2018 2:50pm

Also the plan appears to rely on Parliament St being used two way by a large number of routes - something DCC is not keen on!

Qrt · 02-07-2018 3:20pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Just wondering what is the opinion on privatization of the bus service on this forum?
Good, bad, and why.

Bad. Just look at England. Franchising is a mess got trains, and the free for all bus operations outside of London are a mess.

Qrt · 02-07-2018 3:22pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Also the plan appears to rely on Parliament St being used two way by a large number of routes - something DCC is not keen on!

I don't understand the DCC position, buses will be too polluting but taxis and private cars aren't?

Pixel Eater · 02-07-2018 3:26pm

Qrt wrote: »

Bad. Just look at England. Franchising is a mess got trains, and the free for all bus operations outside of London are a mess.

That's a bit simplistic though. Publicly run Dublin Bus has a virtual monopoly and it's hardly poster boy for an efficient transport system. If it was there would be little reason to turn to privatisation.

CatInABox · 02-07-2018 3:34pm

So far, BusConnects looks good to me. Be interesting to see the response from a broader audience.

tubbs26 · 02-07-2018 3:52pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

While it is positive, until people actually study the detailed plans (contained in chapter 7) and how they affect them, I’d take that initial consultation with a loose pinch of salt as it was VERY high level in nature.

On first glances there is an awful lot of good stuff in the report, but it will require a lot of in-depth reading to fully assess the strengths and weaknesses.

But what I will say is that there is a need for the associated infrastructure improvements to be put in place before these changes are implemented if people using low frequency connecting routes are to have any form of certainty about making connections off the high frequency spines. Otherwise confidence will slip away very quickly.

Just did what you said. I'm from Celbridge and was really encouraged with all the orbitals routes planned between other towns and and connections to trains stations in the area.

I then noticed that the 67x will go from approx 10 services in each direction a day to 3. Also the route is far less direct.

I can see the point of bus connects is to try and get people to use the train more but the vast majority travel by bus to the city centre at the moment. It will take a massive shift in habits for people to go for this. I wonder is this the same around the city

postsnthing · 02-07-2018 3:54pm

Where are the high res detailed maps everything I can see on the site is low res

Heartbreak Hank · 02-07-2018 3:58pm

postsnthing wrote: »

Where are the high res detailed maps everything I can see on the site is low res

https://busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

Download the PDFs

LXFlyer · 02-07-2018 4:24pm

The key chapter is Chapter 7 which has all the detail on routes, frequencies etc. and full maps.

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1239/chapter7recommendednetworkplan.pdf

Zebra3 · 02-07-2018 4:25pm

Taxis are sustainable transport?

Seriously? :rolleyes:

prunudo · 02-07-2018 7:35pm

First of all, apologies to anyone that isn't familiar with the area but was just having a quick look the proposed new route replacing the 184 which will now bypass kilpedder village completely, with buses staying on the n11 both north and south. It also doesn't go to the Glenview hotel anymore. Afaik the route they are suggesting isn't possible as there is a weight restriction on the link road at Barry's bridge therefore it has to go to the Glenview to loop around.
This is local to me, hence why I looked. It's a welcome that they propose linking up with Newcastle but I've always felt the Kilmacanogue bus should come to the Glenview too, thus creating a way for people to connect this way rather than having to go through Greystones and on to Bray to change buses.

L1011 · 03-07-2018 10:38am

Weight limits are sometimes fictional to create a HGV ban rather than actually structural.

LXFlyer · 03-07-2018 11:11am

jvan wrote: »

First of all, apologies to anyone that isn't familiar with the area but was just having a quick look the proposed new route replacing the 184 which will now bypass kilpedder village completely, with buses staying on the n11 both north and south. It also doesn't go to the Glenview hotel anymore. Afaik the route they are suggesting isn't possible as there is a weight restriction on the link road at Barry's bridge therefore it has to go to the Glenview to loop around.
This is local to me, hence why I looked. It's a welcome that they propose linking up with Newcastle but I've always felt the Kilmacanogue bus should come to the Glenview too, thus creating a way for people to connect this way rather than having to go through Greystones and on to Bray to change buses.

It could be an oversight.

loyatemu · 03-07-2018 11:20am

jvan wrote: »

First of all, apologies to anyone that isn't familiar with the area but was just having a quick look the proposed new route replacing the 184 which will now bypass kilpedder village completely, with buses staying on the n11 both north and south. It also doesn't go to the Glenview hotel anymore. Afaik the route they are suggesting isn't possible as there is a weight restriction on the link road at Barry's bridge therefore it has to go to the Glenview to loop around.
This is local to me, hence why I looked. It's a welcome that they propose linking up with Newcastle but I've always felt the Kilmacanogue bus should come to the Glenview too, thus creating a way for people to connect this way rather than having to go through Greystones and on to Bray to change buses.

I was told by the council some years ago that the weight restriction is there to prevent heavy traffic going through Delgany village. The "bridge" in question is a small concrete structure over a stream that was only installed about 10 years ago, I doubt it can't take the weight of a truck. The 184 only serves the Glenview in one direction anyway which is not particularly useful (and was only introduced in recent-ish years).

The clockwise route could go through Kilpedder, though the medium term plan is to close all the unnumbered junctions on the N11 so it wouldn't be able to do so once that happens.

bk · 03-07-2018 11:33am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

We hear a lot from posters on boards that the SGs are not very favourable with lots of Dublin Bus drivers. The quality of the Wrights vehicles with Dublin Bus over those 10 years have been a mix of good and bad. The VGs & GTs have notably had a really positive mood among both drivers & passengers alike. The SGs have been the biggest failures for this current tenure of operating in Dublin. They are slow, clunky & their build quality have been really poor.

Well I hadn't heard of any major reliability issues with the SG's! Yes, definitely heard drivers complaints about them being slow and light build quality. I suspect that is more an issue of trying to build a Diesel only Euro 6 bus, rather then a Wrights specific issue.

In order to hit the low emission levels of Euro 6. Diesel engines tend to be underpowered and the bus needs to built out of light materials in order to hit those levels, which leads to a worse build quality.

The VG and GT's have better acceleration because they use more powerful engines and better build quality because they use heavier materials. But that means they are also more polluting, which isn't good for the public or the environment and not good for DB management as it means higher Diesel costs.

It is all about trade off's.

The good news is that Hybrid Diesel Battery buses give you the best of both worlds. They tend to have excellent acceleration as the battery is mostly used for that and electric motors have great torque, so they fix that issue. It is also possible to hit the Euro 6 emission levels with heavier buses if hybrid. So they may also help with the build quality issue (obviously depends on manufacturer/spec).

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Wrights still has strong relationships in place for the future, through the NTA, with other operators Bus Eireann & Go-Ahead Ireland. But most of us here don't know how much longer that relationship with Wrights is going to last with Go Ahead Ireland. This is because they have yet begun their running their Irish operations yet from their new depot in Ballymount.

Well it certainly wouldn't be down to GA. What buses bought is decided by the NTA. Of course DB and GA would have input to give to the NTA on bus choices and GA might have valuable new information to share as they have plenty of experience of operating Hybrid and even full EV buses in London and Singapore which might help greatly. But in the end it is down to the NTA.

It seems sensible to me to trial buses from multiple operators and see what is the best bus to buy in future post SG.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Interesting so they must be being introduced on a high frequency route which needs a lot of buses. Let's hope they don't suffer a similar fate to last hybrid buses.

Thousands of Hybrid double deckers operate all over London every day. Something like 3,000 of the London Bus 9,000 fleet is now hybrid. It is a pretty mature and well proven technology now. No reason to be too concerned about it.

Qrt wrote: »

I saw a tweet from an old lecturer of mine, labelling it a precursor to privatisation, and I have to agree with him (and disagree with privatisation) but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Just because someone is a professor, doesn't mean they are smart.

Open tendering has already come to Dublin and has nothing to do with BusConnects.

tom1ie wrote: »

Just wondering what is the opinion on privatization of the bus service on this forum?
Good, bad, and why.

Depends what you mean by "privitisation", it comes in different forms.

Unregulated and unrestricted competition from anyone, no that is terrible and no one would be in favour of that.

The London Bus model, where groups of routes are put out to open and transparent tender to both public and private companies, with careful regulation and running under an umbrella organisation. I'm very much in favour of that model and I think it will work well in Dublin. Note this isn't really "privitisation" as semi-state companies like DB and BE are of course welcome to tender for these contracts too and the best tender wins.

We already have experience of this model with the Luas and it has worked extremely well, with the Luas being the most popular form of public transport in Ireland.

On the intercity express routes, you see yet another model. The NTA license two different companies to operate on these routes at 30 minutes apartment. Again it isn't really "privitisation" as the licenses are open to both public and private companies. Though in reality all the licenses were won by private companies as they were in faster. It has been a tremendous success. Passenger numbers are up 55% to 60% on these routes and people who use them love them.

Qrt wrote: »

Bad. Just look at England. Franchising is a mess got trains, and the free for all bus operations outside of London are a mess.

No one is suggesting that model for here! Why even mention it? That is pure FUD.

The model being implemented in Dublin is the London Bus model which works so well there and which has also worked very well for Luas.

jvan wrote: »

First of all, apologies to anyone that isn't familiar with the area but was just having a quick look the proposed new route replacing the 184 which will now bypass kilpedder village completely, with buses staying on the n11 both north and south. It also doesn't go to the Glenview hotel anymore. Afaik the route they are suggesting isn't possible as there is a weight restriction on the link road at Barry's bridge therefore it has to go to the Glenview to loop around.
This is local to me, hence why I looked. It's a welcome that they propose linking up with Newcastle but I've always felt the Kilmacanogue bus should come to the Glenview too, thus creating a way for people to connect this way rather than having to go through Greystones and on to Bray to change buses.

Well a big part of this plan is to spend lots of money (rumoured 2 billion) improving the routes. Which will include bridge strengthening and widening where needed. Along with extra bus lanes being built, etc.

bk · 03-07-2018 12:00pm

Having taken a quick look over the plan, I'm impressed. If implemented I think it would lead to a much better service.

Looking at the routes in my area, it looks good. In particular the N2 orbital will be really nice, with some great connections for the people along the route. Though a frequency of 20 minutes maybe a bit too low. But at least a god starting place. Also happy to see that it extends to Clontarf DART station, which makes more sense that what was originally indicated on maps.

A 90 minute Leap ticket that works across multiple buses, Luas and DART is of course very welcome. But no mention of cost and no mention if they will be getting rid of driver interaction, etc.

Heartbreak Hank · 03-07-2018 12:22pm

bk wrote: »

But no mention of cost and no mention if they will be getting rid of driver interaction, etc.

In section 1 on page 24 they reference the wider bus connects programme and how they will be going to "state of the art ticketing" and simplified payments and cashless.

I would be ok with the phased transition from cash and leap to cashless - too much change can frighten people.

"Medium Term: the BusConnects Program
The Bus Network Redesign is the first step in a series of transformative
changes to Dublin’s bus network over the coming years. The
next steps in achieving this transformation include:
• building a network of “next generation” bus corridors on
the busiest bus lines to make bus journeys faster, predictable
and reliable;
• developing a state-of-the-art ticketing system using
credit and debit cards or mobile phones to link with payment
accounts and making payment much more convenient;
• implementing a cashless payment system to vastly speed
up passenger boarding times;
• a simpler fare structure, allowing seamless movement
between different bus services without financial penalty;
• a network of park and ride facilities at key locations on
national roads.
• a new bus livery to integrate bus vehicles of different operators
and types, and providing a modern look and feel to
the new bus system;
• new bus stops with better signage and information and
increasing the provision of additional bus shelters; and
• transitioning to a new bus fleet using low-emission vehicle
technologies."

prunudo · 03-07-2018 12:39pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I was told by the council some years ago that the weight restriction is there to prevent heavy traffic going through Delgany village. The "bridge" in question is a small concrete structure over a stream that was only installed about 10 years ago, I doubt it can't take the weight of a truck. The 184 only serves the Glenview in one direction anyway which is not particularly useful (and was only introduced in recent-ish years).

The clockwise route could go through Kilpedder, though the medium term plan is to close all the unnumbered junctions on the N11 so it wouldn't be able to do so once that happens.

I understand the reasoning behind closing the junctions, but it would be a shame for the people of Kilpedder and Willow Grove to loose their bus services because of this though.

I do like the idea of the clockwise/anti-clockwise route linking the villages of Newtown, Newcastle, Kilcoole and Greystones through.

bk · 03-07-2018 4:05pm

Interestingly, look at the city center section, for the A route, which would include the likes of the current 16/13/41 it seems they are suggesting it will operate up and down Gardiner Street, around the Custom House and then onto the Quays. no more going down O'Connell St!

I can see why you might want to do that, but it will be very controversial I suspect. A lot of people coming from the Northside get off on OCS and shop on Henry St. Gardiner Street will be quiet a walk from there.

G_R · 03-07-2018 5:21pm

bk wrote: »

A lot of people coming from the Northside get off on OCS and shop on Henry St. Gardiner Street will be quiet a walk from there.

Ah now, quiet the walk? It's one street over. It's a couple of hundred metres. You're talking a 2 min walk.

Surely people will happily take a 2 min walk when it comes with a 10 min reduction in journey time

schemingbohemia · 03-07-2018 5:26pm

But they'll be able to hop on the LUAS at Abbey Street or Busaras to get to Jervis and this will now be included in their fare. Both are a couple of hundred metres from Gardiner St/Talbot St junction.

jd · 03-07-2018 5:28pm

Or they can stay on the bus and then walk across Halfpenny Bridge

bk · 03-07-2018 5:39pm

jd wrote: »

Or they can stay on the bus and then walk across Halfpenny Bridge

I'm certainly not saying it is the end of the world, but it certainly is quiet a walk and thus a major change for tens of thousands of users. It will certainly lead to a lot of complaints.

Also I hope it also involves footpath widening of Gardiner Street, because the few times I've used it because of parades etc. the footpath certainly wasn't wide enough to handle the numbers of people waiting for buses there.

bk · 05-07-2018 12:55pm

BTW in case anyone missed it, the details of the redesign of the Bus network were published a few days ago.

A lot of really interesting and exciting stuff there IMO, you can read through the changes here:
https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

Basically there will be core radial, high frequency spine routes called A, B, C to G. Which when you get far enough out of the city, will split into spurs, e.g. A1, A2.

For example the buses on the Swords road, which would currently be the likes of the 1, 11, 13, 16, 41 will become the "A" corridor as far as Whitehall and then the A1 will head towards Clongriffin, A2 to the Airport, A3 to Swords, A4 to DCU.

These core routes will have very high frequency all day, even off peak. For instance the A will be every 3 minutes most of the day! And there will also be increased frequency weekends. They don't say it, but I suspect these core routes will eventually become 24/7 routes.

The other major part of the plan is a whole load of high frequency orbital routes. A O route ringing the inner city, then a N2, N4, N6 orbitals on the north side from the closest to the city out. W2, W4, on the West side, S2, S4, etc. on the south side. These are pretty high frequency in some cases and connect with DART stations, universities, etc.

There also going to release a new 90 minute fare, which allows you to switch between multiple buses, Luas and DART in 90 minutes for just one fare, likely between €2.15 and €2.60. I suspect this will basically become the default fare across Dublin.

All of this is separate the bus lanes plan, the 2 billion to build 200km of continuous bus lanes and supporting infrastructure. More details on that to come in October.

BTW lots of conversation on the above over in the C&T forum.

All exciting stuff IMO.

loyatemu · 05-07-2018 12:57pm

The "O" route could be a game changer if they can get it to run reliably - it connects everything together.

tom1ie · 05-07-2018 1:11pm

bk wrote: »

BTW in case anyone missed it, the details of the redesign of the Bus network were published a few days ago.

A lot of really interesting and exciting stuff there IMO, you can read through the changes here:
https://www.busconnects.ie/initiatives/dublin-area-bus-network-redesign-public-consultation-report/

Basically there will be core radial, high frequency spine routes called A, B, C to G. Which when you get far enough out of the city, will split into spurs, e.g. A1, A2.

For example the buses on the Swords road, which would currently be the likes of the 1, 11, 13, 16, 41 will become the "A" corridor as far as Whitehall and then the A1 will head towards Clongriffin, A2 to the Airport, A3 to Swords, A4 to DCU.

These core routes will have very high frequency all day, even off peak. For instance the A will be every 3 minutes most of the day! And there will also be increased frequency weekends. They don't say it, but I suspect these core routes will eventually become 24/7 routes.

The other major part of the plan is a whole load of high frequency orbital routes. A O route ringing the inner city, then a N2, N4, N6 orbitals on the north side from the closest to the city out. W2, W4, on the West side, S2, S4, etc. on the south side. These are pretty high frequency in some cases and connect with DART stations, universities, etc.

There also going to release a new 90 minute fare, which allows you to switch between multiple buses, Luas and DART in 90 minutes for just one fare, likely between €2.15 and €2.60. I suspect this will basically become the default fare across Dublin.

All of this is separate the bus lanes plan, the 2 billion to build 200km of continuous bus lanes and supporting infrastructure. More details on that to come in October.

BTW lots of conversation on the above over in the C&T forum.

All exciting stuff IMO.

So to get the type of frequencies that are proposed in this report I presume more busses and obviously the qbc’s from bus connects are needed. Is the money for the new busses coming from the 2 billion bus connects pot or is the money coming from a different pot altogether?
Or do we have enough busses and it’s just a case of reorganizing everything to operate to this plan?
Looks great though, but frequency and capacity will all hinge on getting the qbc’s built which won’t be easy in a lot of the areas.

Qrt · 05-07-2018 1:33pm

tom1ie wrote: »

So to get the type of frequencies that are proposed in this report I presume more busses and obviously the qbc’s from bus connects are needed. Is the money for the new busses coming from the 2 billion bus connects pot or is the money coming from a different pot altogether?
Or do we have enough busses and it’s just a case of reorganizing everything to operate to this plan?
Looks great though, but frequency and capacity will all hinge on getting the qbc’s built which won’t be easy in a lot of the areas.

There only needs to be approx 25 new buses I think. Nothing extraordinary.

tom1ie · 05-07-2018 1:38pm

Qrt wrote: »

There only needs to be approx 25 new buses I think. Nothing extraordinary.

If that’s the case it shows how badly organised our current service is if frequencies can be improved so much with just 25 new busses. Is this money coming from the bus connects project or a separate money stream I wonder?

Stephen15 · 05-07-2018 1:43pm

Qrt wrote: »

There only needs to be approx 25 new buses I think. Nothing extraordinary.

125 additional buses are coming once GAI take over their routes

tom1ie · 05-07-2018 1:47pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

125 additional buses are coming once GAI take over their routes

Are these paid for by the nta? Is it out of bus connects money?

LXFlyer · 05-07-2018 1:49pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Are these paid for by the nta? Is it out of bus connects money?

Every PSO bus is funded by the NTA.

tom1ie · 05-07-2018 1:59pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Every PSO bus is funded by the NTA.

Yes I know that but I’m just wondering are these extra busses coming out of the bus connects allocated money or if it’s funded via a separate money stream.

bk · 05-07-2018 2:59pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes I know that but I’m just wondering are these extra busses coming out of the bus connects allocated money or if it’s funded via a separate money stream.

I get the impression that extra buses beyond the normal 100 per year replacements is coming out of the NTA/Department of Transport budget. I'd suspect it is coming out of the money allocated to the BusConnects project.

During the presentation to DCC, the NTA person said that he had spoken to Dublin Bus that morning and had assured them they will get whatever new buses they need for expansion.

However it should also be understood that a lot of this growth comes from reorganising the network. A lot of it is coming from more off peak and weekend services. Thing to realise less then half of Dublin Buses fleet operates off peak. The rest of the buses sit in depot unused during the day. So there shouldn't be a major issue with using these buses. The bigger issue will likely be funding the wages for extra drivers and extra hours to operate them. Wages make up the majority of the cost of running a bus.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if the bus lane plan goes ahead in full, along with ticketing and dwell time improvements. There should be a 50% decrease in journey times. Which should allow you to turn buses back around faster and get more productivity out of the existing fleet of buses and drivers.

Dublin - BusConnects

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