Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

gozunda · 13-03-2019 3:53pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Uhm, calling something a 'PR job' very clearly implies a cover up of some kind. If you've changed your mind since, that's fine.As for being determined to have an argument, that's certainly the pot calling the kettle African American.

Nope wrong again ...

Take a look the comment again- that is a question with a question mark !

And is it a 'PR' job? because they cannot categorically know what he was accessing as per the gardai statement, private browsing etc - this has effectively been steamrolled. Do You Understand?

You've claimed you are right and everyone else is wrong btw. I would roll my eyes at your not witty witticism. But I couldn't be bothered tbh.

freshpopcorn · 13-03-2019 3:58pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I don't think the school can be expected to account for unknowable unknowns, such as an unreported incident, or what he was accessing from his phone on their grounds.

I don't blame them at all for putting some distance between themselves and a mass murder they had no involvement with.

I totally understand what you are saying.
However it this matter was investigated further or new information comes to light on the matter.
Them stating it's categorically nothing to do with the school may cause issues for them in the future.
They should have being clearly in there statement in my opinion regarding his phone/etc for there own sake.

KikiLaRue · 13-03-2019 3:59pm

gozunda wrote: »

Nope wrong again lol...

A 'PR' job because they cannot categorically know what he was accessing as per the gardai statement and - this has effectively been steamrolled. Do You Understand?

You've claimed you are right and everyone else is wrong btw. I would roll my eyes at your not witty witticism. But I couldn't be bothered tbh.

Actually, what I said is that I don't think wild speculation is helpful. And I stand by that fully.

Making up stories about what might have happened, how the school might have been involved, what Hawe may have been thinking, why he might have done it - none of it is helpful and I'd argue it's very unhelpful to a community that is both mourning and trying to move past a tragedy.

I haven't said anyone is wrong, because you can't really be wrong when you're speculating, by it's nature it's an act of imagination. So you're free to think whatever you'd like.

I'd prefer to get the facts from an investigation, personally, but you do you boo.

riffmongous · 13-03-2019 4:00pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

The school look to be in the clear. Gardai say he wasn't looking anything criminal, but would be interesting to see what he was looking at. We already know he was into some pretty depraved stuff.

Meh, all porn is depraved to some people, particularly the highly religious and conservative they would have been associating with in a small rural community

gozunda · 13-03-2019 4:06pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Actually, what I said is that I don't think wild speculation is helpful. And I stand by that fully.
Making up stories about what might have happened, how the school might have been involved, what Hawe may have been thinking, why he might have done it - none of it is helpful and I'd argue it's very unhelpful to a community that is both mourning and trying to move past a tragedy.I haven't said anyone is wrong, because you can't really be wrong when you're speculating, by it's nature it's an act of imagination. So you're free to think whatever you'd like.I'd prefer to get the facts from an investigation, personally, but you do you boo.

KikiLaRue wrote:

It's possible that the school has it right, and the family has it wrong. Where are they getting their information? If it's a counsellor's notes, he wouldn't be the first person to lie to a counsellor about what was on his mind.

KikiLaRue wrote:

And yes, I do think a lot of posters here who are speculating wildly about what happened are probably getting it wrong.

:rolleyes:

KikiLaRue · 13-03-2019 4:10pm

gozunda wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Important words "It's possible" - I'm not making any assumptions.

Do you have anything meaningful to respond to the points I'm making, or is a rolled eyes emoji and snipes at me all you've got to contribute?

Muahahaha · 13-03-2019 4:17pm

gozunda wrote: »

Clodagh had already talked to her mother about Hawes use of pornography. That he was attending counciling for that was also referred to.

The schools statement sounds rather defensive imo especially considering that the gardai already suspect he was using a private browser to view the material online...

PR job on behalf of the school?

It certainly sounds like it could be a PR job to me. There is no way the school can categorically rule out that he was watching porn at school be it via his phone or laptop using a private browser. Yet in their statement they categorically ruled it out, they cannot possibily know this information for sure yet they are trying to come across as cock sure about it. Thats why the school is now being questioned, they are making claims they cannot back up.

The Coll family have been told that 97% of his porn viewing happened on a laptop at school. This seems to be information coming from the Gardai and their foresnsic examination of the laptop, either formally or off the record. The Coll family have been told the complete opposite to what the school statement is now claiming.

There is also the possibility that he got caught viewing porn in the local GAA club where he was treasurer. But not withstanding that the school statement is still completely at odds with what the Coll family have released they know about his actions in the lead up to the murders. So if this is a PR stunt then it will unravel in time.

gozunda · 13-03-2019 4:30pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Meh, all porn is depraved to some people, particularly the highly religious and conservative they would have been associating with in a small rural community

I would broadly agree. However if what he was watching was illegal or harmful content coupled with his job as a teacher - would that be game changer?

Afollower · 13-03-2019 4:45pm

I didn't see the Claire Byrne show but I've read the transcripts and my heart goes out to the family of Clodagh Hawe.

I would also like to say that I hope the Gardai and other first responders in this case were adequately looked after in the aftermath of the horrific scene they must have witnessed and that they have received counselling etc.

nice_guy80 · 13-03-2019 6:05pm

If viewing a bit of porn was so catastrophic then half of the young males of Ireland would probably be in trouble

The fact is, Alan Hawe was a sociopath and planned and carried out the murder of his wife and 3 children with ruthless efficiency and not one iota of thought for them or anyone else.

I doubt if anyone could have prevented this

freshpopcorn · 13-03-2019 6:22pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

If viewing a bit of porn was so catastrophic then half of the young males of Ireland would probably be in trouble

The fact is, Alan Hawe was a sociopath and planned and carried out the murder of his wife and 3 children with ruthless efficiency and not one iota of thought for them or anyone else.

I doubt if anyone could have prevented this

Personally I have no issue with pornography(legal) and I don't think most people have. Some people have an issue with any porn.
The issue with this case was it was alleged it happened on school premises. I do understand why some parents may have issues with this.

Regarding could anybody have prevented this. I don't really know. I do think it may have highlighted how a partner can be very controlling towards family members and it may make people aware of there own situation and people around them.

gozunda · 13-03-2019 8:39pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Personally I have no issue with pornography(legal) and I don't think most people have. Some people have an issue with any porn.
The issue with this case was it was alleged it happened on school premises. I do understand why some parents may have issues with this.

Regarding could anybody have prevented this. I don't really know. I do think it may have highlighted how a partner can be very controlling towards family members and it may make people aware of there own situation and people around them.

The issue of high functioning psychopaths/ sociopaths may be relevant here. In my own experience I have encountered at least one individual who like Alan Hawe held a socially important job in a locality and was seen by at least some as a pillar of the community. I don't necessarily believe that these type of personalities need to have a psychotic episode to become toxic.

The thing I have found is that superficially at least - they are charming and held up by many as the epitome of the 'good guy'. Underneath they are a danger to everyone within their reach. Not all resort to murder but there are many who have no morals with regard to others lives.

AndrewJRenko · 13-03-2019 11:21pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

It certainly sounds like it could be a PR job to me. There is no way the school can categorically rule out that he was watching porn at school be it via his phone or laptop using a private browser. Yet in their statement they categorically ruled it out, they cannot possibily know this information for sure yet they are trying to come across as cock sure about it. Thats why the school is now being questioned, they are making claims they cannot back up.

They've stated that's what the Gardai told them. Are you saying the school now is lying about what the Gardai said?

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Coll family have been told that 97% of his porn viewing happened on a laptop at school. This seems to be information coming from the Gardai and their foresnsic examination of the laptop, either formally or off the record.

What's your source for this please?

Muahahaha · 14-03-2019 11:37pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

They've stated that's what the Gardai told them. Are you saying the school now is lying about what the Gardai said?

The Gardai only said that there was nothing illegal in his use of the computer. They never categorically stated that he wasn't watching porn, only the school has done that. Now unless the school has CCTV in every single corner of the building (which they don't) then how can they possibly claim to know that he never accessed porn on school grounds? The school is trying to claim something that they cannot possibly know with any degree of certainity.

What's your source for this please?

In today's article, Ms Connolly discloses that counselling notes reveal that Alan Hawe was "frequently viewing pornography, suffered regular urges to masturbate and was experimenting with cross dressing".

She reveals that computer forensics established that 97pc of the pornography he viewed was on a laptop at his work in Castlerahan school: "In all likelihood it would seem if he stated he was caught red-handed and 'it was all going to blow up', the most likely place was the school."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/hawe-seen-driving-car-after-family-were-murdered-jacqueline-connollys-powerful-account-of-tragedy-37872187.html

So on the one hand we have Jacqueline Connolly saying that the Gardai computer foresnics investigation revealed that 97% of the porn he viewed was on the school laptop that we know he never brought home. And on the other hand the statement of the school categorically states that he never viewed porn on the school grounds. The two versions of the same story do not add up, they directly contradict each other.

So who to believe here? The Gardai did a forensic investigation whereas the school have made a claim that they cannot possibly back up. I don't know what is going on here but things certainly do not add up, the schools statement has only served to muddy the waters and you can't blame people for theorising that was their very intention.

oneilla · 15-03-2019 6:17am

Deleted User wrote: »

This different case, in the news today, just shows how difficult it is to answer the question "why" when it comes to violent attacks, attempted murder and murder - in this particular case, thankfully the victim didn't die, but was severely injured.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/laura-kenna-37-found-guilty-of-attempting-to-murder-woman-walking-home-from-work-37880802.html

So you have this, on behalf of the defence:

"A consultant psychiatrist engaged by the defence testified that the accused was suffering from a mental disorder at the time, and so was entitled to the special defence of not guilty by reason of insanity.

Dr Stephen Monks of the Central Mental Hospital (CMH) told the jury that she was suffering from schizoaffective disorder, a chronic mental illness related to schizophrenia".

And this on behalf of the prosecution:

"However, a consultant psychiatrist engaged by the State disagreed. Professor Harry Kennedy, also of the CMH, testified that she was not delusional at the time, but carried out the attack in anger and out of a ‘sense of entitlement’; she told gardai she’d needed money.

Prof Kennedy said her attack would not come under the definition of insanity. He said that she possessed ‘callous’ and ‘unemotional’ personality traits and had the ability to ‘fabricate for her own interests’."

I'm just posting this to show the level of complexity and difficulty involved in answering the question "why did this happen?"- difficult enough to determine the mind of the person when they're still alive and able to stand trial- so much more difficult when the person is no longer around for some form of psychiatric assessment.

I hope the family get some form of answer. I think one of the few routes is maybe to have some form of consultation with an experienced Psychiatrist such as the people who were consulted in the above trial- maybe these people can at least start to explain to them, how someone "might" do such a thing- I know, not closure by any means but may provide some comfort.

I don't know about that, there was once a definition of psychopath given by a psychiatrist in court that was so broad ranging it could have applied to most of the population.

juno10353 · 16-03-2019 6:16pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Gardai only said that there was nothing illegal in his use of the computer. They never categorically stated

So on the one hand we have Jacqueline Connolly saying that the Gardai computer foresnics investigation revealed that 97% of the porn he viewed was on the school laptop that we know he never brought home. And on the other hand the statement of the school categorically states that he never viewed porn on the school grounds. The two versions of the same story do not add up, they directly contradict each other.

I read that school stated that porn was not viewed in school time, school hours, they did not state that porn was never viewed on school property.

Bobtheman · 16-03-2019 7:54pm

I doubt the family have a written statement from Garda. They now have one from school.

Calypso Realm · 17-03-2019 3:53pm

juno10353 wrote: »

I read that school stated that porn was not viewed in school time, school hours, they did not state that porn was never viewed on school property

In this section of the statement, they did.

“Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

Actually what I find interesting, by its very omission, is the lack of any reference, be it denial or otherwise to the 'conflict with a colleague' Alan Hawe spoke about. Personally I can't see why he'd say this, if it weren't true. Of course it may have been something very minor....which, like some of the other issues (younger years) he mentioned, did, nonetheless, cause him some distress.

juno10353 · 19-03-2019 1:48am

Calypso Realm wrote: »

In this section of the statement, they did.

“Whilst there has been reference to Mr Hawe being caught ‘red-handed’ in relation to some of his activities, we can state categorically that this has absolutely nothing to do with this school and did not happen on school premises.”

The school stated he was not watching porn during school hours. They also state that he was not caught 'red handed' on school grounds. They at no time stated that he was not watching porn on school grounds outside of school hours, on school computer

Bobtheman · 20-03-2019 9:34pm

Bottom line is the guards have yet to officially confirm anything about accessing porn. They might or might not. Until something is written down Id be wary of making definitive statements based on unofficial conversations.

As to rows with colleagues-lots of things occur in workplaces that are rows but never get to formal complaints.

I have a feeling that no real smoking gun will be found-it would be out there by now with the media interest. It seems to me that a man with a mental health issue made a very evil choice. He still had free will. No evidence that he had a psychotic episode or that he was facing anything that merited his own death let alone four innocents.

I dont think this media focus on it is doing that much good. People copy unfortunately. Though, I appreciate that the family felt they had to turn to the media.

padser · 05-04-2019 7:01pm

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

Muahahaha · 05-04-2019 7:20pm

Are you saying they don't have a right to be compensated for what he has put them through? Not everything belongs in the compo culture narrative that the media like to spin, they have suffered extreme psychological trauma at the loss of their sister/daughter and grandkids and have every right to take a case for damages owing to his actions. And btw Alan Hawe's own mother is suing his estate for compensation too, she has suffered as well.

freshpopcorn · 05-04-2019 7:26pm

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

When Alan did what he did he transferred money from the Joint account and put it in his own account. So I can see why they are peeved.

iamwhoiam · 05-04-2019 7:45pm

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

Good for them .Their loss was immeasurable and probably cost them a small fortune to bury their daughter and three gorgeous boys

05-04-2019 8:35pm

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

Murkier?
Murkier?

"Pose for photos? "
Go to a mirror and take a long hard look at yourself. And then revaluate what you've just posted. Seriously.

Murkier?

05-04-2019 8:56pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are you saying they don't have a right to be compensated for what he has put them through? Not everything belongs in the compo culture narrative that the media like to spin, they have suffered extreme psychological trauma at the loss of their sister/daughter and grandkids and have every right to take a case for damages owing to his actions. And btw Alan Hawe's own mother is suing his estate for compensation too, she has suffered as well.

...and money always makes it better, does it????

Mrsmum · 05-04-2019 8:57pm

Really and truly I think AH's family should have just handed the lot (house, money, etc) to the Coll family. Any financial gain is tainted with such pain and horror from what their relative did, they'd be better off making the only gesture they could towards the Colls. It's not like the Hawes ever expected to come into this money and they only did though his dreadful act so even for optics alone, it would look way better for them to hand it over.

freshpopcorn · 05-04-2019 9:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...and money always makes it better, does it????

You do relies they've big funeral Bill's/etc to pay for.
I'd day they could do with a bit of counselling as well.

Calhoun · 05-04-2019 9:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...and money always makes it better, does it????

It's not always about the money, this is literally the only form of justice that her mother and sister can go after.

You don't know if they will even keep the money , the point here is they were gravely wronged yet our laws as usual are still catching up so the perpetrator gains in a way.

iamwhoiam · 05-04-2019 9:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...and money always makes it better, does it????

Nothing will make it better , money might make it easier for them . And any small ease to their pain is a good thing

padser · 05-04-2019 9:44pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Nothing will make it better , money might make it easier for them . And any small ease to their pain is a good thing

To be fair, 2 families have lost children, children in law and grandchildren.

Neither family have any responsibility for what happened - but both have been through something horrific.

I don't think either family have a monopoly on the grief caused here.

However, one family (specifically two members of it) started to wage a media war against the other and have now followed up with legal actions.

Genuine question. Two grandmothers have lost 3 grandsons. Do we genuinely believe that for some reason the maternal grandmother has some right to the family assets but not the paternal grandmother? If so, why?

freshpopcorn · 05-04-2019 9:50pm

padser wrote: »

To be fair, 2 families have lost children, children in law and grandchildren.

Neither family have any responsibility for what happened - but both have been through something horrific.

I don't think either family have a monopoly on the grief caused here.

However, one family (specifically two members of it) started to wage a media war against the other and have now followed up with legal actions.

Genuine question. Two grandmothers have lost 3 grandsons. Do we genuinely believe that for some reason the maternal grandmother has some right to the family assets but not the paternal grandmother? If so, why?

In this article it says that Clodagh's mother and sister want nothing from the estate and want it donated to charity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/year-filled-love-sorrow-murdered-11068207.amp

padser · 05-04-2019 9:59pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

In this article it says that Clodagh's mother and sister want nothing from the estate and want it donated to charity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/year-filled-love-sorrow-murdered-11068207.amp

They have given interviews saying they believe it should be donated to charity.

Their legal action is to have themselves named as the beneficiaries of estate.

05-04-2019 10:03pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Really and truly I think AH's family should have just handed the lot (house, money, etc) to the Coll family. Any financial gain is tainted with such pain and horror from what their relative did, they'd be better off making the only gesture they could towards the Colls. It's not like the Hawes ever expected to come into this money and they only did though his dreadful act so even for optics alone, it would look way better for them to hand it over.

I think therea a huge focus on Clodaghs family.

But, her husbands family are almost forgotten about.

To be honest, I think their horror must be as great if not greater. It was their son who caused the deaths of 4 people. Their child, I cannot imagine a greater horror than knowing it was your flesh and blood who commited such an act. And the guilt they must feel. And raking it through the media, TV shows etc must be unbearable for them.

It might be cathartic for Clodaghs family but must be excruciatingly painful for the husbands family. Their son being demonised over and over again. To be fair, they did nothing wrong.

iamwhoiam · 05-04-2019 10:19pm

padser wrote: »

To be fair, 2 families have lost children, children in law and grandchildren.

Neither family have any responsibility for what happened - but both have been through something horrific.

I don't think either family have a monopoly on the grief caused here.

However, one family (specifically two members of it) started to wage a media war against the other and have now followed up with legal actions.

Genuine question. Two grandmothers have lost 3 grandsons. Do we genuinely believe that for some reason the maternal grandmother has some right to the family assets but not the paternal grandmother? If so, why?

Do we know that the Mc Colls want it all ? I was not aware they did ? Maybe they just wanted their fair share and felt they needed to fight for it .

padser · 05-04-2019 10:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It might be cathartic for Clodaghs family but must be excruciatingly painful for the husbands family. Their son being demonised over and over again. To be fair, they did nothing wrong.

Yeah I completely agree.

At this point, it's not their son being demonized - it's them.

A completely innocent family.

wellwhynot · 05-04-2019 10:36pm

I agree they are innocent but how could they in good conscience accept all of the proceeds of the estate? If it was me I would give all to Clodagh’s family and if they didn’t accept it I would donate to Women’s Aid.

Mrsmum · 05-04-2019 11:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think therea a huge focus on Clodaghs family.

But, her husbands family are almost forgotten about.

To be honest, I think their horror must be as great if not greater. It was their son who caused the deaths of 4 people. Their child, I cannot imagine a greater horror than knowing it was your flesh and blood who commited such an act. And the guilt they must feel. And raking it through the media, TV shows etc must be unbearable for them.

It might be cathartic for Clodaghs family but must be excruciatingly painful for the husbands family. Their son being demonised over and over again. To be fair, they did nothing wrong.

All 100% correct. None of us have any control over our relatives actions and anyone could be in their shoes. The whole thing must have been and is horrendous for them. But they can only, imo, come out of this looking bad if they appear to be squabbling over the spoils. Their son caused the heartbreak here and really it's maybe all they can do towards atonement.

Snickers Man · 06-04-2019 12:06am

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

On the contrary, it becomes a lot clearer.

Bobtheman · 06-04-2019 10:46pm

Things have to be confusing for the hawes. Very confusing.
I wish the whole thing would go from the media. It can hardly help the hawes find a way to settle this peacefully with all the rumors and inneudeno floating around.

Electric Sheep · 07-04-2019 12:16pm

padser wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It might be cathartic for Clodaghs family but must be excruciatingly painful for the husbands family. Their son being demonised over and over again. To be fair, they did nothing wrong.

Yeah I completely agree.

At this point, it's not their son being demonized - it's them.

A completely innocent family.

I've seen no demonization of the Hawe family. None whatsoever.

up for anything · 07-04-2019 1:03pm

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

To get money from his estate. He came into his estate only because he killed his wife and three children in the most terrible way. That's how he got his estate. His estate that both him and Clodagh worked for. It wasn't all his money.

Murkier my arse.

padser wrote: »

To be fair, 2 families have lost children, children in law and grandchildren.

Neither family have any responsibility for what happened - but both have been through something horrific.

I don't think either family have a monopoly on the grief caused here.

However, one family (specifically two members of it) started to wage a media war against the other and have now followed up with legal actions.

Genuine question. Two grandmothers have lost 3 grandsons. Do we genuinely believe that for some reason the maternal grandmother has some right to the family assets but not the paternal grandmother? If so, why?

Wow! You're accusing them of waging a media war. He killed four members of their family and they still don't know why. Would you not want to know?

Bobtheman wrote: »

Things have to be confusing for the hawes. Very confusing.
I wish the whole thing would go from the media. It can hardly help the hawes find a way to settle this peacefully with all the rumors and inneudeno floating around.

Ah yes... keep the whole thing out of the media... so Clodagh can end up like she was in the beginning - a nameless adjunct to that poor man. FFS!

padser · 07-04-2019 3:09pm

up for anything wrote: »

Wow! You're accusing them of waging a media war. He killed four members of their family and they still don't know why. Would you not want to know?

!

They are waging a media war. They might have good reason to do so - but I think it's beyond question that they are waging a media war against the school and the Hawe family - neither of whom have any blame for the tragic position they find themselves in.

What's to know? He was clearly disturbed mentally. He stopped taking his medication. He killed his family. He planned doing it.

What's left to know?

Honestly, what is this "truth" that people seem to want to come out?

MrFresh · 07-04-2019 3:22pm

up for anything wrote: »

Wow! You're accusing them of waging a media war. He killed four members of their family and they still don't know why. Would you not want to know?

Sometimes there is no why to be found. And knowing the why often doesn't help anything.

Bobtheman · 07-04-2019 6:22pm

up for anything wrote: »

padser wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/clodaghs-family-sues-killer-hawes-estate-over-trauma-37985266.html

Purpose behind the interview becomes a little murkier.

At almost exactly the same time as the mother / sister started to give interviews, pose for the photos etc they also started proceedings to attempt to get money from A Hawe estate.

To get money from his estate. He came into his estate only because he killed his wife and three children in the most terrible way. That's how he got his estate. His estate that both him and Clodagh worked for. It wasn't all his money.

Murkier my arse.

padser wrote: »

To be fair, 2 families have lost children, children in law and grandchildren.

Neither family have any responsibility for what happened - but both have been through something horrific.

I don't think either family have a monopoly on the grief caused here.

However, one family (specifically two members of it) started to wage a media war against the other and have now followed up with legal actions.

Genuine question. Two grandmothers have lost 3 grandsons. Do we genuinely believe that for some reason the maternal grandmother has some right to the family assets but not the paternal grandmother? If so, why?

Wow! You're accusing them of waging a media war. He killed four members of their family and they still don't know why. Would you not want to know?

Bobtheman wrote: »

Things have to be confusing for the hawes. Very confusing.
I wish the whole thing would go from the media. It can hardly help the hawes find a way to settle this peacefully with all the rumors and inneudeno floating around.

Ah yes... keep the whole thing out of the media... so Clodagh can end up like she was in the beginning - a nameless adjunct to that poor man. FFS!

I think you are virtue signaling and playing to the gallery. I never indicated such an opinion but play to the gallery all the same
Bottom line is the law needs to be changed so nobody profits from murder.
But the law is what is now. The hawes are people too. You might pick up a stone and throw it at them but they lost a son and daughter in law plus three grand children. They are not responsible for their sons behavior. His murders. The law as it exists is with them. Thus media stone throwing ain't going to help . Let them arrive at a reasonable conclusion.
Meanwhile jump up and down on your feminist bandwagon. It amounts to a hill of beans

07-04-2019 6:27pm

padser wrote: »

They are waging a media war. They might have good reason to do so - but I think it's beyond question that they are waging a media war against the school and the Hawe family - neither of whom have any blame for the tragic position they find themselves in.

What's to know? He was clearly disturbed mentally. He stopped taking his medication. He killed his family. He planned doing it.

What's left to know?

Honestly, what is this "truth" that people seem to want to come out?

This is what I've been wondering, I just don't know what accountability they're hoping or looking for.

iamwhoiam · 07-04-2019 6:35pm

Kennedi Quaint Elevator wrote: »

This is what I've been wondering, I just don't know what accountability they're hoping or looking for.

Maybe they need to know why and who are we to judge them for that ? If one tiny snippet of information can help ease their horrendous pain then I for one would support them in that

Spanish Eyes · 07-04-2019 6:44pm

By Succession Law it would appear that the Hawe parents will inherit the lot as nearest surviving next of kin. Alan Hawe died last, so the devolution of the estate will speak from him now. Whether he left a will or not is not clear, but if he didn't his parents will inherit. If he did and his wife and children were named beneficiaries, the fact that they are deceased means he effectively died intestate.

There is nothing to stop the lawful successors from dividing the estate equally between the Hawes and the Colls once Probate has been granted. But if Hawes do this, the Colls will have a Gift Tax liability. I doubt they would care as long as the right thing is done in the circumstances.

Alternatively the Hawes could donate half the estate to Women's Aid or whomever, no tax payable.

I know it is not my decision, but that to me seems fair, and would obviate the need for endless litigation that will probably leave nothing to distribute anyway.

I just don't understand why the families cannot come to an agreement outside the courts. Surely that is possible.

freshpopcorn · 07-04-2019 6:55pm

padser wrote: »

They are waging a media war. They might have good reason to do so - but I think it's beyond question that they are waging a media war against the school and the Hawe family - neither of whom have any blame for the tragic position they find themselves in.

What's to know? He was clearly disturbed mentally. He stopped taking his medication. He killed his family. He planned doing it.

What's left to know?

Honestly, what is this "truth" that people seem to want to come out?

According to them the school made no contact since the incident when they were on Claire Byrne.
Alan also said something along the lines of he was due a fall from grace and he had made contact with INTO/Teaching council.
They probably wanted to know why was he contacting them and did something happen at the school.

What's left to know I don't know. It's important that all areas are fully investigated and it may prevent similar things happening in the future.

I don't think they've being bad to the Hawe family to be honest. They could have being a lot worse.
They had an anniversary mass in the church for him where Clodagh was buried very close to and the county she's from. They could have done this in Kilkenny or privately in there home. That mass had to have being organised by somebody. Clodagh's family said they had issues with the mass being in the church but they didn't really give out about the Hawe family.

Bobtheman · 07-04-2019 7:00pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

padser wrote: »

They are waging a media war. They might have good reason to do so - but I think it's beyond question that they are waging a media war against the school and the Hawe family - neither of whom have any blame for the tragic position they find themselves in.

What's to know? He was clearly disturbed mentally. He stopped taking his medication. He killed his family. He planned doing it.

What's left to know?

Honestly, what is this "truth" that people seem to want to come out?

According to them the school made no contact since the incident when they were on Claire Byrne.
Alan also said something along the lines of he was due a fall from grace and he had made contact with INTO/Teaching council.
They probably wanted to know why was he contacting them and did something happen at the school.

What's left to know I don't know. It's important that all areas are fully investigated and it may prevent similar things happening in the future.

I don't think they've being bad to the Hawe family to be honest. They could have being a lot worse.
They had an anniversary mass in the church for him where Clodagh was buried very close to and the county she's from. They could have done this in Kilkenny or privately in there home. That mass had to have being organised by somebody. Clodagh's family said they had issues with the mass being in the church but they didn't really give out about the Hawe family.

Again let me ask you if you were a hawe how would you deal with all of this. Confusing emotions. Can you imagine if your brother did this crime. Give them a break. It will be sorted. Stop the virue signalling

Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

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