Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

Muahahaha

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Or possibly a blind eye was turned to his behaviour for some reason, child protection protocols were ignored, and the school don’t want this to be revealed now?

tipptom wrote: »

Think the school has serious answers to give to parents about the timeline here.

What type of porn was this person accessing on a school computer and why was he still teaching from March up to the summer holidays and why was he going back after the holidays?

As said by others the timeline of the incidents are really troubling here.
What we know-
1. March- Alan Hawe admits to his wife that he watches porn and tells her he is seeking councelling
2. June 21st -Hawe goes to his GP and tells them that "he was having a conflict with a colleague". Hawe is stressed, has an ulcer and isn't sleeping properly. Sleeping tablets are prescribed. June 21st is also the day he cancels all his remaining councelling sessions and it is the last time he visits his GP

Now if the conflict with a colleague was due to him been caught watching porn in the school it raises serious questions about what the school did about it at the time. Surely Hawe should have been suspended immediately. The Teaching Council would have been informed, Tusla and the Gardai too. This does not seem to have happened and if anything it looks like he was only due to be suspended 8 weeks later on his return from summer holidays.

What I'm thinking now is that Hawe was caught red handed by a colleague who was below his position of Vice Principal of the school. This teacher informs on him but instead of him being immediately being suspended pending an investigation what followed was a political struggle at work as Hawe, in his position as Vice Principal battled to save his own skin. The INTO were part of this political struggle as they tried to save Hawe job. People involved on the Board of Management were in an argument about what to do. Because Hawe was seen as a pillar of the community, GAA coach and all round good Catholic at least some members of the Board of Management were trying to fob off his masturbation as a one off and that no further action was warranted. The Board of Management were incentivised to cover it up- after all think of the fallout for the school from a rural community at the revelation that the Vice Principal was caught masturbating at school. Parents would have been up in arms and taking their children out of the school. TDs would have been informed, it would have made national news. This is the last thing the Board of Managment would have wanted, the shame on them and the shame on the school in a small rural community would have been immense. Hence their instinct was to protect the institution of the school at all costs.

So for at least some of the summer the Board of Management were trying to keep a lid on it. But by the end of the summer something had changed. Someone found a conscience and said that if Hawe wasn't suspended then they were going to blow the whistle. This someone may well have been the colleague who initially caught Hawe masturbating.

All of the above is speculation of course but there is serious questions to be asked as to why it took the school the entire summer to take action against Hawe. All the while he was planning the murder of his Clodagh and the kids. If he had of just been suspended on the spot then his secret was out- he would have lost control. He said in the suicide note that it was all going to come out and that he would rather his entire family to be dead than to face the shame. This shame as he calls it should have come at the beginning of the summer, not eight weeks later on the eve of him returning to work in the school. If his secret had of been revealed and outed when he was actually caught then all control is removed from him and circumstances might have been very different.

This entire incident needs a public enquiry, not just into Alan Hawe but also all the other actors in the school and as to why they didn't act sooner.

The Coll family are meeting the Garda Commissioner shortly. Hopefully they'll get the answers they need. Sorry but speculation like the above is tittle-tattle; this isn't a soap opera.

JMNolan

There wouldn't be tittle-tattle and speculation if there was transparency

Paul Pogba

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

clones1980

Paul Pogba wrote: »

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

This is the transcript from Claire Byrne with Clodaghs mum:-

Claire: Did he say in that letter, why he did what he did?
Jacqueline: There were bits and pieces of information and as you know we went through and inquest and the law for the inquest is very limited so we only find out where, when, how it happened and who it happened to but we never found out the why and we were advised that that probably would never happen at the inquest.
But he has said in his own words that he was caught red-handed and we do know that he was looking at pornography on the school laptop and he never brought the school laptop home. We’ve had sight of the counselling notes and he had said he was masturbating somewhere that he shouldn’t have been, possibly at the school. So we have pieces of information but we don’t know who caught him.

freshpopcorn

Paul Pogba wrote: »

Has anyone a link to confirmation that he was caught watching porn in school by a colleague?? Not looking for a ‘source’ created by the red tops. Thanks.

I've seen links and it said claimed not confirmed!

zapitastas

A very impressive interview by clodagh's mother and sister. Must have been an incredibly difficult thing to do and is a shame that this is the route to go down in order to get the answers they need. Heart breaking story from the sister about having ring the garda liasion officer to find out if the media were correct in what they were reporting. Surely whatever Garda was leaking details to the media could see that the family should have the right to know first.

Paul Pogba

retro:electro wrote: »

The family have stated the are aware he was caught masterbating in work; they haven’t stated who caught him. People are assuming it was a colleague since he went on to divulge to a counsellor that he was having a “conflict” with a colleague around this time.
Looking through your posts it seems you set up your account to defend Hawe and only seem to post when his name crops up. Wrong’un.

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

retro:electro

Paul Pogba wrote: »

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

And the facts state that he murdered his family in the most heartless and savage of ways. That’s what matters here to most people. Do you have anything to say about that at all or are you just here to pick at people’s posts and seemingly defend this monster? A few days ago you corrected me for describing him as abusive, despite the fact he murdered his whole family in cold blood :rolleyes:

iamwhoiam

Paul Pogba wrote: »

I just base my opinions on facts and evidence rather than ‘sources’ ‘assumptions’ and the boards judge and jury. Does it offend you your honour.

I base my opinion on the words of two brave and dignified women who spoke out in their pain and hurt .

Paul Pogba

retro:electro wrote: »

And the facts state that he murdered his family in the most heartless and savage of ways. That’s what matters here to most people. Do you have anything to say about that at all or are you just here to pick at people’s posts and seemingly defend this monster? A few days ago you corrected me for describing him as abusive, despite the fact he murdered his whole family in cold blood :rolleyes:

Where did I defend him??

retro:electro

Had something written but deleted it cos can’t be bothered. This thread isn’t about you. You’re either ignorant of the facts or willfully obtuse. Either way you’re not worth speaking to.

This guy played "God" with the lives of his family.

What struck me throughout the week was one aspect of his note, where he said something like "why didn't people see the dark side of me?" I've reflected on that statement. I find it a very difficult statement to deal with. It's as if he's saying "I was hurting and no-one helped me"- "I was in difficulty and no-one could see it"- a "victim" statement in other words.

Again, controlling. Again, influencing what people might think of him, beyond the grave.

It doesn't wash with me.

He had perversions, fetishes or disorders, whatever way you want to label them. He displayed controlling behaviour from a very young age- only a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist could place him from a disorder perspective- but what makes someone play "God"? I don't think we'll ever know, but if there are professional medical people out there who feel they can contribute to such knowledge, then really, i'd love to see what they had to say.

We're terribly uncomfortable with such events as human beings- "Evil" is a word that arises often in this thread. Understandably so. But it does little to answer the question "why?" - "evil" as an answer just isn't enough for the family.

Of course the acts were evil.

But what drives someone to murder of their family? And then kill themselves? We're all searching for answers and the families of those affected deserve that answer the most- I hope they get something that will help them in their time of need, from the authorities, over the coming weeks.

retro:electro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What struck me throughout the week was one aspect of his note, where he said something like "why didn't people see the dark side of me?"

That strikes me as him trying to deflect responsibility for his actions, like it’s everyone else’s fault for not predicting that he was capable of murdering his whole family in the most horrific way possible. Beyond maddening but sadly not surprising that he would say something like that.

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

There wouldn't be tittle-tattle and speculation if there was transparency

We're not the ones who deserve transparency.

When AGS hopefully share their information with the family, that should remain with the family.

It's great to support them, but blatant speculation doesn't help.


Anyway, just in case you've seen a GoFundMe page (or similar) supposedly raising money for the Coll and Connolly families, it's fake.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/family-of-clodagh-hawe-warn-of-fake-fundraising-page-1.3811451

The family of Clodagh Hawe has warned people not to donate to online fundraising pages that have no link to them.

Ms Hawe’s sister, Jacqueline Connolly urged the public not to donate to an online fundraising page and they would not accept money “on the back of our grief”.

“It has come to our attention that someone has set up a gofundme page in our name. Please ignore this as Mam and I would never in a million years accept money from anyone on the back of our grief. We have informed RTÉ and they are having it shut down!” tweeted Jacqueline Connolly.

AudreyHepburn

A horrific case, the details of which I can’t bring myself to read again.

The school have a lot to answer for imo. I would have to question the kind of people they have on their staff that they effectively let him get away with what they caught him doing.

Clodagh and her children might still be alive if the school has dealt with him properly.

AudreyHepburn

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

Would be interested to hear the majority opinion on this then. Would think most people who kill themselves would be pitied as they're "not in their right mind"

Anyone who goes off by themselves and dies a lonely death by their own hand deserves the upmost sympathy imo.

Anyone who takes others with them be it accidentally or on purpose not so much.

I feel for anyone who finds themselves in that dark a place but is it necessary to take others with you?

And if you bring innocent children with you you lose my sympathy completely.

Airyfairy12

I dont understand what him dressing in womens clothes has to do with anything and why its being used as evidence of how sick and twisted he was. Theres thousands of men in Ireland that wear womens clothes who don't go on killing sprees or have a **** in public schools. His fascination with porn and cross dressing shouldn't be used as an indication of something sinister imo, similarly to how depression and mental illness was used in the same way, to sort of explain why he did what he did.
His thinking was incredibly distorted, arrogant and entitled, when he questioned why people didn't see his 'dark side' in the note, id wonder if that's referring the literal dark/evil in him that he had to be aware of himself, he must have known he was different from other people in that he lacked the empathy and consideration that other people seemed to have.
As Clodaghs sister said, he murdered her like he hated her, that shows a frightening lack of compassion that he had to of been aware of.

If there was any ounce of compassion or empathy in him he would have discussed his feelings with his counselor, he would have wanted to stop himself from committing such an evil act and he would have discussed his thoughts of suicide and wanting to hurt other people but he didnt, he was so sure of what he was going to do that he said nothing, he wanted nothing to come between him and his sick plan. How nobody saw that evil in him is perplexing to say the least but that said, people like that are very good at putting on a show.

freshpopcorn

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A horrific case, the details of which I can’t bring myself to read again.

The school have a lot to answer for imo. I would have to question the kind of people they have on their staff that they effectively let him get away with what they caught him doing.

Clodagh and her children might still be alive if the school has dealt with him properly.

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

retro:electro

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

It’s not clear if it was reported or not.. although he was liaising with the INTO so it would seem he was concerned about something anyway

Muahahaha

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s not clear if it was reported or not.. although he was liaising with the INTO so it would seem he was concerned about something anyway

Thing is if it wasn't reported then why not? And if it was reported then why wasn't he immediately suspended with the Teaching Council, Gardai and Tusla informed as per the law under the Childrens Act? Surely that would be the protocol for any teacher caught masturbating on school grounds?

The schools timeline does not make any sense at all to me. We can be sure he was never suspended because then that in itself would have been all around the rural community yet it wasn't. Everything was hush hush for the entire summer holidays. He only finally did what he did when he realised his indiscretions were finally to be made public, his suicide note said as much.

The school had a duty to deal with this effectively and swiftly but they didn't, they dragged their feet for a full two months. All the while Hawe is going around with his head like a pressurised powder keg thinking of what to do. By the time the school were due to out his secret he already had his plans set in stone. If he had of been suspended and outed immediately at the start of the summer then events would likely be very different.

freshpopcorn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thing is if it wasn't reported then why not? And if it was reported then why wasn't he immediately suspended with the Teaching Council, Gardai and Tusla informed as per the law under the Childrens Act? Surely that would be the protocol for any teacher caught masturbating on school grounds?

The schools timeline does not make any sense at all to me. We can be sure he was never suspended because then that in itself would have been all around the rural community yet it wasn't. Everything was hush hush for the entire summer holidays. He only finally did what he did when he realised his indiscretions were finally to be made public, his suicide note said as much.

The school had a duty to deal with this effectively and swiftly but they didn't, they dragged their feet for a full two months. All the while Hawe is going around with his head like a pressurised powder keg thinking of what to do. By the time the school were due to out his secret he already had his plans set in stone. If he had of been suspended and outed immediately at the start of the summer then events would likely be very different.

We don't know the date of the incident at the school it could have happened months previously or even a few days before in August.
We also don't know what the incident was. It could have being a minor incident that he blew out of proportion or it could have being something serious.
The incident could have being reported and steps carried out correctly or it may have being a failure on the school or the authorities or both.
It could have being witnessed by a teacher, parent, student, SNA. cleaner, etc. The person may have not reported and he thought they had and that's why he contacted INTO. They may have not reported it for various reasons.

Mrsmum

Tbh I think even outside of his final act, AH was imploding. You know the way an alcoholic or gambler can hide it for so long but eventually they persist in trying to function but can control it no longer and all kinds of negative stuff happens as the control slips. AH was a man whose byword was control for years and years, yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor, admitting to maybe the counsellor he was wearing women's underwear, masturbating somewhere inappropriate and as a result of that or separately getting into conflict with a colleague and seeing a doctor for stress. Imo if he was still in control his secrets would have been his alone and no one, including his family, would have been any the wiser but I think he was losing it while at the same time struggling to stay what he saw as 'respectable' and caring less and less every day which was why in act of self sabotage, he allowed himself to masturbate where he was caught. I really think he was on a path of destruction phase. Imo, one way or the other he was going to cause a scandal, he knew it and decided to leave the stage. If the fool had only gone alone, he actually would have kept his dignity as hardly anyone would know anything.

Muahahaha

freshpopcorn wrote: »

We don't know the date of the incident at the school it could have happened months previously or even a few days before in August.

Everything points towards him masturbating in the school a lot earlier than just a few days before they were due back. He said in his suicide letter that his councellor "knew everything" yet the last time he visited the councellor was June 21st.

We also don't know what the incident was. It could have being a minor incident that he blew out of proportion or it could have being something serious.
The incident could have being reported and steps carried out correctly or it may have being a failure on the school or the authorities or both.
It could have being witnessed by a teacher, parent, student, SNA. cleaner, etc. The person may have not reported and he thought they had and that's why he contacted INTO. They may have not reported it for various reasons.

We have pointers of what the incident was- he told Clodagh that he was caught masturbating somewhere. They think it was the school which was the reason he was so stressed, had ulcers and was prescribed sleeping tablets on the 21st of June.

As for someone seeing him and not reporting it- that in itself is a criminal offence under the Children First Act. Teachers and anyone else working with children are duty bound by that act to report anything that might be a danger to children. The defence of "I didn't think it was serious" no longer applies. All people who work with children know this as its drummed into them. Its unfathomable that someone working with children and knowing about the laws they are subject to would not report the Vice Principal of a school caught masturbating on school grounds. Not reporting it makes them guilty of a criminal offence, you just wouldn't put your entire career on the line over some wanker.

Airyfairy12

Mrsmum wrote: »

Tbh I think even outside of his final act, AH was imploding. You know the way an alcoholic or gambler can hide it for so long but eventually they persist in trying to function but can control it no longer and all kinds of negative stuff happens as the control slips. AH was a man whose byword was control for years and years, yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor, admitting to maybe the counsellor he was wearing women's underwear, masturbating somewhere inappropriate and as a result of that or separately getting into conflict with a colleague and seeing a doctor for stress. Imo if he was still in control his secrets would have been his alone and no one, including his family, would have been any the wiser but I think he was losing it while at the same time struggling to stay what he saw as 'respectable' and caring less and less every day which was why in act of self sabotage, he allowed himself to masturbate where he was caught. I really think he was on a path of destruction phase. Imo, one way or the other he was going to cause a scandal, he knew it and decided to leave the stage. If the fool had only gone alone, he actually would have kept his dignity as hardly anyone would know anything.

I can understand him imploding and the self sabotaging but it doesnt explain him murdering his family with hatchets and knives, he would have known without a doubt that would be public news so I really dont think he cared about what anyone else thought or felt. He wasnt thinking of Clodaghs mam or sister or his own family and what they would have to deal with in the aftermath but besides that, addiction doesnt turn people into murderers. Ive got alcoholics in my family, some of them drank themselves to death, sabotaged their entire lives and done some awful things as a result of their addictions but would never dream of killing anyone.

I dont think theres any explaining or rationalizing of what he did.

AudreyHepburn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Was the incident at the school even reported or was he just caught by somebody?

That’s unclear at the moment which in itself begs a question.

Mrsmum

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I can understand him imploding and the self sabotaging but it doesnt explain him murdering his family with hatchets and knives, he would have known without a doubt that would be public news so I really dont think he cared about what anyone else thought or felt. He wasnt thinking of Clodaghs mam or sister or his own family and what they would have to deal with in the aftermath but besides that, addiction doesnt turn people into murderers. Ive got alcoholics in my family, some of them drank themselves to death, sabotaged their entire lives and done some awful things as a result of their addictions but would never dream of killing anyone.

I dont think theres any explaining or rationalizing of what he did.

Ah no, I didn't mean to suggest addiction turns people into murderers. The country would be full of murderers in that case. Just that he was on a slippery slope, as a comparison, like when addiction is spiralling out of control. In the end I don't think he gave a sh1t about anyone.

Btw you said in other post he told Clodagh he was caught masturbating somewhere inappropriate. Did he ?? I thought the only info Clodagh shared about him with her mother was that he was watching porn.

strandroad

Mrsmum wrote: »

yet in the last few months we have him admitting to his wife he was watching porn (why do this?), taking the not inconsiderable step of seeing a counsellor

Quite possibly when he admitted to porn it was already the school laptop porn and getting caught he was obliquely referring to? He was only seeing the counselor until June, and he apparently worked with them on whatever it was that was going to come out already.

The way the timeline reads to me is that he was caught in school in March. He admitted to porn to his wife then, possibly to cover up any upset or agitation she may have observed. No formal steps were taken at the time other than possibly telling him to go to counselling which he did. Something happened again in June, perhaps he learned that there will be consequences after all, possibly no return to school for him in the new year? All comes crumbling down, he cancels his counselling and starts his plans to remove himself and the entire family.

Mrsmum

strandroad wrote: »

Quite possibly when he admitted to porn it was already the school laptop porn and getting caught he was obliquely referring to? He was only seeing the counselor until June, and he apparently worked with them on whatever it was that was going to come out already.

The way the timeline reads to me is that he was caught in school in March. He admitted to porn to his wife then, possibly to cover up any upset or agitation she may have observed. No formal steps were taken at the time other than possibly telling him to go to counselling which he did. Something happened again in June, perhaps he learned that there will be consequences after all, possibly no return to school for him in the new year? All comes crumbling down, he cancels his counselling and starts his plans to remove himself and the entire family.

Ok, that makes sense.

freshpopcorn

Muahahaha wrote: »

Everything points towards him masturbating in the school a lot earlier than just a few days before they were due back. He said in his suicide letter that his councellor "knew everything" yet the last time he visited the councellor was June 21st.



We have pointers of what the incident was- he told Clodagh that he was caught masturbating somewhere. They think it was the school which was the reason he was so stressed, had ulcers and was prescribed sleeping tablets on the 21st of June.

As for someone seeing him and not reporting it- that in itself is a criminal offence under the Children First Act. Teachers and anyone else working with children are duty bound by that act to report anything that might be a danger to children. The defence of "I didn't think it was serious" no longer applies. All people who work with children know this as its drummed into them. Its unfathomable that someone working with children and knowing about the laws they are subject to would not report the Vice Principal of a school caught masturbating on school grounds. Not reporting it makes them guilty of a criminal offence, you just wouldn't put your entire career on the line over some wanker.

Yes I know about the Children's first act. ( I have said this already) However strange things happen and people do silly things.
However whatever he did could have being seen by a parent/student/cleaner/etc.
The person could have being highly manipulated by him.
I just find it so strange that any teacher/SNA would keep their mouth closed about this and not report it straight away. I couldn't see them giving him a date of when they were going to report it. It would be done right away.
Wouldn't TUSLA/etc have being out at the school if it was so serious.
There's just something there and I can't put my finger on it.