Shooting in the French Alps

laugh · 06-09-2012 5:23pm

Whoever did it; they are fecked now, that little girl will grow up, use her womanly charms on a James Bond type and revenge will be hers!

Missymoohaa · 06-09-2012 5:27pm

Where To wrote: »

Some credible sources there :pac:

Maybe the family were the ones in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Has anyone thought of that?

I don't think so Where To, something more sinister at foot here mark my words. I'm not a conspiracy theorist really but there is something very very fishy about this sad case. The two girls are under armed guard apparently (I don't know how true this is, but have read several reports). MI5 caught on the hop here, I think.

Teangalad · 06-09-2012 5:31pm

Missymoohaa wrote: »

I don't think so Where To, something more sinister at foot here mark my words. I'm not a conspiracy theorist really but there is something very very fishy about this sad case. The two girls are under armed guard apparently (I don't know how true this is, but have read several reports). MI5 caught on the hop here, I think.

How have MI5 been caught on the hop??....

06-09-2012 5:32pm

Missymoohaa wrote: »

I don't think so Where To, something more sinister at foot here mark my words. I'm not a conspiracy theorist really but there is something very very fishy about this sad case. The two girls are under armed guard apparently (I don't know how true this is, but have read several reports). MI5 caught on the hop here, I think.

Of course they'd be under armed guard. The 8 year old girl was left for dead and they didn't see the 4 year old. Everyone else that saw it is dead, so they are the only witnesses that can finger the culprits. It would be idiotic to not have them under protection.

Missymoohaa · 06-09-2012 5:38pm

Teangalad wrote: »

How have MI5 been caught on the hop??....

There has been speculation that Saad needed protection from the Israelis and that MI5 should have been protecting him. I stress speculation at the moment.

Missymoohaa · 06-09-2012 5:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course they'd be under armed guard. The 8 year old girl was left for dead and they didn't see the 4 year old. Everyone else that saw it is dead, so they are the only witnesses that can finger the culprits. It would be idiotic to not have them under protection.

No need to be smart, i was just pointing this fact out. Yes of course they would be under protection, I was just saying I hadn't heard it as actual fact. I just don't think this was a random nut job which is exactly what I thought with the murders in Norway. I do think this was a professional hit and this family was specifically targeted. The reason why is of course speculation on my behalf and many others. This also does not take away from the fact that I, as well as every one else am absolutely horrified and saddened for these two little girls. I do hope they find the strength and support to get through this dreadful time.:(

Yakult · 06-09-2012 5:45pm

Interested to see how this pans out. Sounds crazy and planned out.

token56 · 06-09-2012 5:51pm

RTE reporting 3 of the 4 victims shot in the middle of the head. Certainly doesn't sound a crazed gunman. But no matter who it was its a terrible situation, particularly for the two girls found.

Wompa1 · 06-09-2012 5:53pm

Only in America France

drquirky · 06-09-2012 5:54pm

Just read that the dead cyclist had some nuclear links and may have been on paternity leave from a nuclear company w/ slightly tenuous looking Iranian links...

Heres my theory- both Nuke scientists- lured to meet a "contact" in isolated location all adults killed but girls spared- 4 yr old left alone as she wouldn't remember anything- 8 yr old beaten just bad enough to go get knocked out/ lose memory but not die. Pro hit IMO.

ejmaztec · 06-09-2012 5:56pm

Missymoohaa wrote: »

There has been speculation that Saad needed protection from the Israelis and that MI5 should have been protecting him. I stress speculation at the moment.

Perhaps MI5 thought that MI6 were looking after him?

Witcher · 06-09-2012 5:57pm

drquirky wrote: »

4 yr old left alone as she wouldn't remember anything- 8 yr old beaten just bad enough to go get knocked out/ lose memory but not die. Pro hit IMO.

How do you know when you've beaten someone enough to erase their memories...is there a required number of blows or something? If two people are going to a clandestine meeting with a contact, one isn't going to bring 2 children, their wife and the kids grandmother and the other isn't going to cycle to the meeting. Nice idea but not grounded in reality.

bhamsteve · 06-09-2012 5:59pm

If there's any truth in the stories that he worked on nuclear program in Iraq and recently traveled to Iran I think I'm with the conspiracy crowd on this one. All shots to the forehead seems like assassination.

ejmaztec · 06-09-2012 6:03pm

Blay wrote: »

How do you know when you've beaten someone enough to erase their memories...is there a required number of blows or something? If two people are going to a clandestine meeting with a contact, one isn't going to bring 2 children, their wife and the kids grandmother and the other isn't going to cycle to the meeting. Nice idea but not grounded in reality.

He's Dr Quirky, and I'm assuming that he's a medic and not a doctor of music or something, so he should know.:cool:

Witcher · 06-09-2012 6:06pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

He's Dr Quirky, and I'm assuming that he's a medic and not a doctor of music or something, so he should know.:cool:

Well I for one think it's about time that med. school has started teaching our young doctors to beat the memories out of people's heads:pac:

JONJO THE MISER · 06-09-2012 7:46pm

This must be one of the strangest stories ive heard in a long time.

ejmaztec · 06-09-2012 7:51pm

Blay wrote: »

Well I for one think it's about time that med. school has started teaching our young doctors to beat the memories out of people's heads:pac:

They'll never do that, or the patients will forget to pay em.

Mr. CooL ICE · 06-09-2012 7:54pm

Surely I'm not the only person that heard about the 4 year old and immediately thought "Dexter"?

Missymoohaa · 06-09-2012 7:54pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Perhaps MI5 thought that MI6 were looking after him?

MadsL · 07-09-2012 5:52am

AH response: Fupping 'Merica again!!!...oh wait.

Real response: Jesus, that's awful. Hope the kid blocks it out of her memory in later years.

brandon_flowers · 07-09-2012 7:45am

Just reading the French news this morning, no doubting it was a super professional hit. No bullets hit the body of the car, all cartridges found at the scene match the number of bullet wounds in the three in the car, the cyclist and the seven year old (who was shot in the shoulder).

In a way that is intriguing to the investigation the French are not very welcoming to Arab's (mainly due to Meghrabin influx) but also are historically not very supportive if Israel. I say this because I believe it was a Mossad hit. They have a blasé attitude about how they conduct their affairs, knowing full well the protection they are offered by certain states.

If it was MI-6 they would hardly have waited to come to France to organize a hit. (David Kelly, Dr Holmes etc)

As a human it is act of savagery though, to think that some guy/girl will receive a large bonus payment for wiping out a family and a passer-by is stomach churning.

Pinturicchio · 07-09-2012 7:55am

The first word that came to my mind when I read this story was "Mossad".

gozunda · 07-09-2012 8:05am

The French are also hugely into their firearms and have been known to be a tad xenophobic. Take rural area ( the Alps) and as likley or not you get a crazy lone gunman that has a thing about non locals....

Fratton Fred · 07-09-2012 8:23am

Would a professional hit man kill the family as well?

Sounds too shabby for a pro, but to clinical for a lunatic.

I'm going for revenge/warning attack.

gozunda · 07-09-2012 8:27am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Would a professional hit man kill the family as well?

Sounds too shabby for a pro, but to clinical for a lunatic.

I'm going for revenge/warning attack.

Lunatics can be wonderfully clinical - take that Swedishnutjob on the Island with the kids....enough said

Edit: please note that the ethnicity referered to may not be absolutely correct -and is for phonetic purposes only!)

gimli2112 · 07-09-2012 8:29am

gozunda wrote: »

Lunatics can be wonderfully clinical - take that Swedishnutjob on the Island with the kids....enough said

Norway / Sweden they're all the same up there

pickarooney · 07-09-2012 8:39am

gozunda wrote: »

The French are also hugely into their firearms and have been known to be a tad xenophobic.

sam34 · 07-09-2012 8:46am

gozunda wrote: »

Lunatics can be wonderfully clinical - take that Swedishnutjob on the Island with the kids....enough said

he was Norwegian and he was found sane.

gozunda · 07-09-2012 9:00am

sam34 wrote: »

gozunda wrote: »

Lunatics can be wonderfully clinical - take that Swedishnutjob on the Island with the kids....enough said

he was Norwegian and he was found sane.

I do apologise! I was being glib....and of course he was sane - this didn't of course stop him shooting kids at random. I can categorise him as a nut job even if he was declared "sane"

Anyway the point was shooting is a huge sport & many living in rural areas have guns for personal use - most of which is hunting

Rural France can be xenophobic. There is also a huge cultural backlash against specific ethnic groups ATM in France ( I travel there regularly btw)

But hey don't let me interrupt the conspiracy theory flow here - just giving a much more likely scenario if that's ok with the CIA/FBI/KGB whatever....

07-09-2012 9:03am

There are numerous news reports suggesting that it was a professional hit organized because of a family feud; seemingly the father had mentioned to a neighbour that he was worried over something.

Telegraph being one such example.

trishasaffron · 07-09-2012 9:04am

How come the 4 your old was 8 hours under her mother's body and yet the car engine was warm when the scene was discovered by the 2nd cyclist?

iora_rua · 07-09-2012 9:08am

trishasaffron wrote: »

How come the 4 your old was 8 hours under her mother's body and yet the car engine was warm when the scene was discovered by the 2nd cyclist?

I heard that the 2nd cyclist switched off the engine when he came across the
scene.

07-09-2012 9:08am

trishasaffron wrote: »

How come the 4 your old was 8 hours under her mother's body and yet the car engine was warm when the scene was discovered by the 2nd cyclist?

The little girl hid from the cyclist, the cops and everyone else. The cops didn't want to interfere with the scene until forensic teams got there, so when they looked in, they could see no movement and nothing showed up on thermal imaging, possibly because she was masked by her mother's body, which she was hiding under.

Plus they didn't realize there was another child, as there was only one child seat, so it was only when police questioned the campsite that it was revealed the child was missing and they checked the car.

The car was found around 4pm, she was found at midnight.

pickarooney · 07-09-2012 9:09am

trishasaffron wrote: »

How come the 4 your old was 8 hours under her mother's body and yet the car engine was warm when the scene was discovered by the 2nd cyclist?

Neither the cyclist nor the police noticed there was a child alive in the car. The cops were afraid to disturb the scene for the forensics experts apparently - talk about getting your priorities right!

Rural France can be xenophobic. There is also a huge cultural backlash against specific ethnic groups ATM in France ( I travel there regularly btw)

In all seriousness how can you draw a link between an oul' lad with a shotgun who doesn't much like them arabs and a quadruple murder with a handgun at point blank range?

brandon_flowers · 07-09-2012 9:10am

trishasaffron wrote: »

How come the 4 your old was 8 hours under her mother's body and yet the car engine was warm when the scene was discovered by the 2nd cyclist?

In France there are different types of police, the police who initially arrived were more than likely not allowed to examine the scene as they were Police Municipal. Basically like the FCA with a little more power, they had to wait for Police Nationale to arrive who then would have requested the NDLR (specialist forensic police) to attend.

It is administration gone mad basically.

pickarooney · 07-09-2012 9:13am

But did they actually just look in the window, say "they look fairly dead" and leave it at that? If a civilian did that they'd be charged with not assisting a person in danger.

07-09-2012 9:16am

pickarooney wrote: »

But did they actually just look in the window, say "they look fairly dead" and leave it at that? If a civilian did that they'd be charged with not assisting a person in danger.

No, they looked in the window and then used thermal imaging to try and see if there was anything else, but the child's temperature could have been masked by her mother and the car seat.

brandon_flowers · 07-09-2012 9:17am

pickarooney wrote: »

But did they actually just look in the window, say "they look fairly dead" and leave it at that? If a civilian did that they'd be charged with not assisting a person in danger.

Obviously they are not going to say who did what and who didn't do what but I would guess they looked in and saw people who had obviously been executed and just sealed the area. Effectively that is there job, they don't have much power and knowing the way everything works around here they would be afraid to do something they are not supposed to.

They are more for public order than anything else.

pickarooney · 07-09-2012 9:18am

I don't really understand the science. Does a dead body show up orangey-red on the thermal imaging or only a live person?

Did the cyclist not check anyone for a pulse? It seems really bizarre behaviour.

brandon_flowers · 07-09-2012 9:20am

At that point there would be very little difference in body temperature between a person dead for 8 hours in a warm car and a live person.

One of the other interesting things is that the car was running when the cyclist arrived so I wonder if the guy was halted on purpose to be executed.

ooPabsoo · 07-09-2012 9:23am

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't really understand the science. Does a dead body show up orangey-red on the thermal imaging or only a live person?

Did the cyclist not check anyone for a pulse? It seems really bizarre behaviour.

A live person will show up orangey red under thermal imaging due to its heat. A dead body will be cold...so won't show a red colour.

I guess the cyclist just checked the 8 year old for a pulse, called the police- and then looked in to the car and from the sight he seen presumed everybody was dead inside.

gozunda · 07-09-2012 9:25am

Rural France can be xenophobic. There is also a huge cultural backlash against specific ethnic groups ATM in France ( I travel there regularly btw)

...In all seriousness how can you draw a link between an oul' lad with a shotgun who doesn't much like them arabs and a quadruple murder with a handgun at point blank range?

Edit: here is weirdly similar case

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-bears-eerie-1307564

Btw there was no mention of an "ol lad"?
How would you link a joe soap "Norweigan" with the killing of teenagers because he didn't like the liberal policies and Immigration of recent decades.

Xenophobia doesn't discriminate ironically enough! I do love the eyewitness detail being given here - are the forensics back in btw?

Any black choppers flying around at the time?

seamus · 07-09-2012 9:31am

I guess seeing a hole in someone's head is a fairly good indicator that they're dead, you wouldn't be inclined to try start CPR on them.

In any case, even if the cyclist or the attending police had checked for a pulse, they still wouldn't have discovered the 4 year old sitting still hidden under her mother's dress. You'd check for life, no life. Then have a look in and around the vehicle for anyone else, but without disturbing anything. You see nothing, so you sit and wait for the forensics guys.
I don't really see anything else they should have done - if they had started poking around and moving bodies, they could completely destroy vital evidence. It's unfortunate that the little girl was hidden there, but she didn't come to any additional harm, so I don't think it's that big a deal.

Though the fact that she was there at all is kind of interesting. I doubt she was travelling like that, so is it possible that there was some kind of row or disagreement between the driver and shooter(s) beforehand and the mother told her to hide?

ooPabsoo · 07-09-2012 9:38am

seamus wrote: »

Though the fact that she was there at all is kind of interesting. I doubt she was travelling like that, so is it possible that there was some kind of row or disagreement between the driver and shooter(s) beforehand and the mother told her to hide?

I'd have a guess and say she could have been sitting on her Mams lap when they got stopped....then when her Mam realised they were in trouble- dropped her down in front of her to hide.

The killer mustn't have seen her. If he'd beat an 8 year old to inch of her life...he would have probably done the same to a 4 year old.

Dave! · 07-09-2012 9:38am

Fascinating, and quite disturbing, story... The 7 year old, if she survives, will I assume be the key witness.

Just what in the f*ck prompted this execution?!

I can't wait for the film. Matt Damon should star in it.

seamus · 07-09-2012 9:44am

ooPabsoo wrote: »

I'd have a guess and say she could have been sitting on her Mams lap when they got stopped....then when her Mam realised they were in trouble- dropped her down in front of her to hide.

Looking at the aerial pictures of the car, it seems to be parked in a very odd position. Almost looks like he jammed it into reverse in panic.

brimal · 07-09-2012 9:48am

latenia wrote: »

Why not Mossad? They've done stuff like this on European soil many times in the past.

brandon_flowers wrote: »

I say this because I believe it was a Mossad hit.

Pinturicchio wrote: »

The first word that came to my mind when I read this story was "Mossad".

Can you guys please give one piece of evidence, or even a motive, that suggests it was Mossad that carried this out?

Police are currently investigating a family feud involving money.

Prosecutor Eric Maillaud says "I won't say it was professional, what I will say is it was tremendous savagery. And what is certain is that somebody wanted to kill," he said.

Police also confirm 15 bullet casings were found at the scene. Is 3/4 bullets per victim too much for a professional hit?

ooPabsoo · 07-09-2012 9:56am

brimal wrote: »

Police also confirm 15 bullet casings were found at the scene. Is 3/4 bullets per victim too much for a professional hit?

That'd probs depend on the weapon being used- which I don't think has been released yet? Like if it was an automatic it would spray more bullets.

LordSutch · 07-09-2012 9:58am

As witnesses to the crime might the two little girls they be sitting targets in the hoispital?

I'd be fearful for their safety, but I trust the security is tight.

Mr.Crinklewood · 07-09-2012 10:02am

brandon_flowers wrote: »

At that point there would be very little difference in body temperature between a person dead for 8 hours in a warm car and a live person.

One of the other interesting things is that the car was running when the cyclist arrived so I wonder if the guy was halted on purpose to be executed.

News reports indicate that there were brake marks on the road.

Shooting in the French Alps

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