Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

13-09-2018 10:04am

Greenway development will not prevent rail re-opening, confirms CIE

CIE has confirmed that the development of the Quiet Man Greenway along the Tuam to Athenry railway line will not prevent it from opening the rail line again for train use, if such services were ever reintroduced.

See link for full story

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/103000/greenway-development-will-not-prevent-rail-re-opening-confirms-cie

eastwest · 13-09-2018 10:26am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Greenway development will not prevent rail re-opening, confirms CIE

CIE has confirmed that the development of the Quiet Man Greenway along the Tuam to Athenry railway line will not prevent it from opening the rail line again for train use, if such services were ever reintroduced.

See link for full story

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/103000/greenway-development-will-not-prevent-rail-re-opening-confirms-cie

BUT THEY HAVE THE LUAS UP IN DUBLIN!

13-09-2018 2:27pm

Greenway does not threaten future rail services, says Cannon

East Galway Minister Ciaran Cannon has received confirmation from CIE that the licence for the development of a greenway on CIE lands can be revoked at any time if the Board has alternative plans for the lands.

The Minister has said that Galway’s county councillors need to bear this fact in mind ahead of the forthcoming vote on a feasibility study for the Quiet Man Greenway.

See link for full story

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/102951/greenway-does-not-threaten-future-rail-services-says-cannon

what_traffic · 13-09-2018 2:34pm

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/102951/greenway-does-not-threaten-future-rail-services-says-cannon

a lot of coverage in the Galway Advertiser re Greenway today. Front page and Editorial coverage

14-09-2018 11:12am

Meanwhile, in Tipperary, logic prevails

https://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/news/335811/breaking-thurles-clonmel-greenway-gets-support.html

westtip · 14-09-2018 12:46pm

West on Track on tour in upstate New York

https://youtu.be/6lutNECOZFw

whisky_galore · 14-09-2018 3:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Meanwhile, in Tipperary, logic prevails

https://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/news/335811/breaking-thurles-clonmel-greenway-gets-support.html

Most of it is obliterated, good luck with that.

Isambard · 14-09-2018 3:32pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Most of it is obliterated, good luck with that.

I'd agree, what with N8 improvements, the M8 and the Clonmel bypass, there can't be a lot left.

14-09-2018 5:01pm

Galway COUNTY COUNCIL TO APPLY FOR CONNEMARA GREENWAY FUNDING

https://galwaybayfm.ie/county-council-to-apply-for-connemara-greenway-funding/

That takes away the excuse the Connemara councillors had for not supporting the greenway from Athenry to Milltown

Another step closer

JCX BXC · 14-09-2018 6:21pm

On the train between Athenry and Ennis at the moment, it's more akin to a packed DART than a ghost line tbh.

Numbers must be rising to a level of 'irish rail' sustainability?

marno21 · 14-09-2018 6:39pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

On the train between Athenry and Ennis at the moment, it's more akin to a packed DART than a ghost line tbh.

Numbers must be rising to a level of 'irish rail' sustainability?

If it wasn't full on a Friday evening there would be no hope. Plenty of returning professionals and students on that train.

As I said in a recent post, if we are keeping these lines, run a decent service and for the same subvention you get a large social dividend. The same rule should be applied to LJ-Waterford & Killonan-Ballybrophy. If you run 2 trains a day at low speed you won't have any usage. 5/6 trains a day and you get multiples of users whilst still paying the same wages to the gatekeepers, same cost of maintenance etc.

JCX BXC · 14-09-2018 6:42pm

marno21 wrote: »

If it wasn't full on a Friday evening there would be no hope. Plenty of returning professionals and students on that train.

As I said in a recent post, if we are keeping these lines, run a decent service and for the same subvention you get a large social dividend. The same rule should be applied to LJ-Waterford & Killonan-Ballybrophy. If you run 2 trains a day at low speed you won't have any usage. 5/6 trains a day and you get multiples of users whilst still paying the same wages to the gatekeepers, same cost of maintenance etc.

In essence you're suggesting 'economies of scale'.

marno21 · 14-09-2018 6:46pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

In essence you're suggesting 'economies of scale'.

Indeed. If these lines are being kept open it should either be full useful service or else close them. No more of this keeping lines open for the sake of it which benefits no one and costs a small fortune.

marno21 · 15-09-2018 3:00pm

Shane Ross wrote:

I recently briefed Government on how I plan to give effect to the Government’s commitments in relation to the review. In this regard a process for an independent financial and economic evaluation of the WRC phase 2 is now underway that will also include broad consultation. I expect that Irish Rail and my Department will progress this over the coming months and I will then report to Government with the findings.

Lets see how long this takes.

16-09-2018 1:49am

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/locals-react-businesses-scenic-kerry-13247494

Cahersiveen in Kerry is on its knees, economically speaking, and the locals know that a greenway is their best bet to rejuvenate the local economy and halt the decline of their rural way of life.

East Galway can benefit in a similar manner with a greenway between Athenry and Milltown, but without a feasibility study, nothing will change. The vote for this study comes before Galway County Council on 24th Sep and many are using the map below to contact (text, email, post) their local councillors to discuss the issue

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/athenry-to-sligo-greenway-council_244567

eastwest · 16-09-2018 8:41am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/locals-react-businesses-scenic-kerry-13247494

Cahersiveen in Kerry is on its knees, economically speaking, and the locals know that a greenway is their best bet to rejuvenate the local economy and halt the decline of their rural way of life.

East Galway can benefit in a similar manner with a greenway between Athenry and Milltown, but without a feasibility study, nothing will change. The vote for this study comes before Galway County Council on 24th Sep and many are using the map below to contact (text, email, post) their local councillors to discuss the issue

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/athenry-to-sligo-greenway-council_244567

Galway is peculiar in that it is effectively two counties, West and East.
The connemara councillors will vote against the motion to ensure (as they see it) that all tourism money goes to the west of the county. A few of the local councillors in East Galway who would normally be expected to vote for their own supporters' interests are members of West on track and are firmly set against any proposal that doesn't include a train of some sort.
I therefore reckon that the motion will be defeated, and that the consequent upsurge of anger from the population will change the political landscape of East Galway for generations. The anti greenway councillors will be wiped out, as will their main cheerleading TD.
But the hated greenway will have been stopped. They have the LUAS up in Dublin, you see.

Sam Russell · 16-09-2018 12:32pm

How popular is the greenway from Mullingar to Athlone? Is it always busy, or is the traffic sparse?

It might give an indication as to how popular the Tuam to Athenry might be.

eastwest · 16-09-2018 12:34pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

How popular is the greenway from Mullingar to Athlone? Is it always busy, or is the traffic sparse?

It might give an indication as to how popular the Tuam to Athenry might be.

Busy at times but not as busy as waterford. It won't really come into its own until the entire Dublin Galway greenway is comlete.

TCDStudent1 · 16-09-2018 1:00pm

voz es wrote: »

An that is what is so awful about that greenway, those who want it as not the ones who have been affected by if not being there. International and influence outside of this region is what is driving the campaign so that they can go down for a spin once or twice. It really is something very sad to see that you and people like you DaCor refuse to look at the affect of your actions on the region as a whole.

I don't get this - what makes you think it's influence outside the region? I'm from the area and see lots of local people with stickers on the car supporting the greenway. A quick browse of the Facebook group also reveals many mutual friends etc.

In saying that, I also think there can be some misleading info from the greenway side. Ciaran Cannon had a Facebook post recently where he said there have been no trains in 42 years on the line. I know he meant passenger trains but still he should specify that. I clearly remember a time in the 90's when a freight train passed on Wednesdays and Saturdays, making Cannon's post incorrect.
Also, there was a demonstration some months back advocating support for the greenway. Some posters on here suggest there was a massive crowd - there wasn't. It'll be interesting to see if there's a big crowd on 23rd.

I don't know about athenry but tuam is desperately in need of a greenway(regardless of whether it comes from the railway line or not).

Muckyboots · 16-09-2018 2:06pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

How popular is the greenway from Mullingar to Athlone? Is it always busy, or is the traffic sparse?

It might give an indication as to how popular the Tuam to Athenry might be.

Within a short time there will be a 250% increase in people using the line as an amenity, if it's converted to a Greenway.

17-09-2018 1:18am

Sam Russell wrote: »

How popular is the greenway from Mullingar to Athlone? Is it always busy, or is the traffic sparse?

It might give an indication as to how popular the Tuam to Athenry might be.

The route cost 4 million to build

It was extended from Garrycastle to the White Gates on the Ballymahon Road at a cost of €580,000

"Data from the counters installed along the new section of greenway shows that the current average daily total is in excess of 700 users, with a peak level to date of 1,521 users on the last Sunday in March,"

More recent figures, but varying depending on the source in the article, are available here

Needless to say, far more users than ever used the train on that line

Del.Monte · 17-09-2018 7:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

The route cost 4 million to build

It was extended from Garrycastle to the White Gates on the Ballymahon Road at a cost of €580,000

"Data from the counters installed along the new section of greenway shows that the current average daily total is in excess of 700 users, with a peak level to date of 1,521 users on the last Sunday in March,"

More recent figures, but varying depending on the source in the article, are available here

Needless to say, far more users than ever used the train on that line

Rather hard to use the line given the almost non-existent timetable and you could make that argument about the DART lines if you time the only trains of the day at almost Midnight. :rolleyes:

Muckyboots · 17-09-2018 8:55am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Rather hard to use the line given the almost non-existent timetable and you could make that argument about the DART lines if you time the only trains of the day at almost Midnight. :rolleyes:

There is a very simple issue for rail advocates to address, and they never do. Irish Rail do not want to operate loss making lines. It's the most basic of viability appraisal. What do you propose with this in mind? Governments come and go and a willingness to subevent will ebb and flow depending on the ideology. Simple business operational planning means IR wouldn't touch them with the railcar equivalent of a barge pole. Force us.. and we'll show you how much money we can lose. Privatise the lines?

Del.Monte · 17-09-2018 11:08am

Muckyboots wrote: »

There is a very simple issue for rail advocates to address, and they never do. Irish Rail do not want to operate loss making lines. It's the most basic of viability appraisal. What do you propose with this in mind? Governments come and go and a willingness to subevent will ebb and flow depending on the ideology. Simple business operational planning means IR wouldn't touch them with the railcar equivalent of a barge pole. Force us.. and we'll show you how much money we can lose. Privatise the lines?

In case you don't know all CIE's rail routes lose money and I seem to remember that years ago McKinsey & Co., pointed out the greatest losses were incurred on the busiest lines. As for answers, CIE/IE are not one and shouldn't be allowed to make any important decisions - the new platform at Limerick Junction being a case in point.

Isambard · 17-09-2018 11:10am

but losses on a busy line are offset by the other benefits that accrue across a lot of passengers.

Del.Monte · 17-09-2018 11:14am

Isambard wrote: »

but losses on a busy line are offset by the other benefits that accrue across a lot of passengers.

Agreed but the previous poster stated that CIE don't like operating loss-making routes and that's the point I was addressing.

17-09-2018 12:16pm

Galway County Councillor Michael Connolly went on galway Bay FM this morning to complain about receiving texts, emails and letters, saying one particular constituent contacted a number of councillors saying he would not vote for them (different EA's) if they didn't support the feasibility study proposal

Queue a flood of text's to the show calling out the Councillor for not wanting to talk to constituents, not answering texts, calls and emails and ignoring the desires of the local electorate who are demanding a yes vote on the 24th of Sept when the feasibility proposal comes before Galway County Council for a vote again.

He then touted the WOT rubbish going so far as to talk about the line going from Athenry, to Tuam, to Sligo and on to Derry, and blatantly lied when challenged by text on the numbers WOT said would use the line.

Hilarious stuff but the one side benefit of it was that Keith couldn't cope with the volume of texts coming into the show so will be doing more coverage over the next few days to spread it out, yay more coverage

Muckyboots · 17-09-2018 12:50pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

In case you don't know all CIE's rail routes lose money and I seem to remember that years ago McKinsey & Co., pointed out the greatest losses were incurred on the busiest lines. As for answers, CIE/IE are not one and shouldn't be allowed to make any important decisions - the new platform at Limerick Junction being a case in point.

CIE/IR aren't allowed to make strategic decisions and yet they have a statutory responsibility not to turn a loss? Remembering "years ago" will solve nothing.

Del.Monte · 17-09-2018 1:01pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

CIE/IR aren't allowed to make strategic decisions and yet they have a statutory responsibility not to turn a loss? Remembering "years ago" will solve nothing.

I don't imagine anything has changed regarding which lines lose the most and CIE staggering from one crisis to the next is not the solution.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 17-09-2018 1:49pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

CIE/IR aren't allowed to make strategic decisions and yet they have a statutory responsibility not to turn a loss? Remembering "years ago" will solve nothing.

Is it not the NTA calling all the shots now?

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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