International Men's Day 19th November

Wibbs · 18-11-2019 10:14pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Nobodies going to support an initiative that is part of the problem.

Indeed. The "Men's Movement" such as it is tends to follow, approach and view men through two different and usually diametrically opposed political and philosophical lenses; the far more "official" and mainstream one through feminism, the "unofficial" and fringe is a collection of "red pill"/MGTOW types, with a smaller group of specifically father's rights people. With the exception of the latter(mostly) the other two lenses are distorted and divisive. The "red pill"/MGTOW types tend to be bitter and full of BroScience(tm), the feminist angle - well, asking feminists to comment upon or advise on men's rights, health and place in society is akin to asking the pope to advise on what it is to be an atheist. The sniff of either in connection with any event should be met with at best suspicion, at worst a sneer. Certainly the day when I take advise from either is the day satan skates to work in the mornings. While one may take a pinch or two from each, a new narrative is sorely needed.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-11-2019 10:14pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

:rolleyes:

At least be subtle about it.

Calling people a back slapping pr1ck and an arzehole, isn't subtle. But I don't suppose you saw anything wrong with that. It was just funny because the same poster said they were feeling bullied. But it's all a bit off topic.

Reviews and Books Galore · 18-11-2019 10:18pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Calling people a back slapping pr1ck and an arzehole, isn't subtle. But I don't suppose you saw anything wrong with that. It was just funny because the same poster said they were feeling bullied. But it's all a bit off topic.

Why do you care? It's an online forum of people you will never meet.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-11-2019 10:19pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. The "Men's Movement" such as it is tends to follow, approach and view men through two different and usually diametrically opposed political and philosophical lenses; the far more "official" and mainstream one through feminism, the "unofficial" and fringe is a collection of "red pill"/MGTOW types, with a smaller group of specifically father's rights people. With the exception of the latter(mostly) the other two lenses are distorted and divisive. The "red pill"/MGTOW types tend to be bitter and full of BroScience(tm), the feminist angle - well, asking feminists to comment upon or advise on men's rights, health and place in society is akin to asking the pope to advise on what it is to be an atheist. The sniff of either in connection with any event should be met with at best suspicion, at worst a sneer. Certainly the day when I take advise from either is the day satan skates to work in the mornings. While one may take a pinch or two from each, a new narrative is sorely needed.

Sure and while you sit around critiquing anyone who even tries to support men's issues, waiting for the men's movement to appear in a puff of apathy, the feminists advance their causes for good or Ill and the men's movement is waiting to be invented.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-11-2019 10:27pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Why do you care? It's an online forum of people you will never meet.

I don't. But you have to admit it's funny to see someone cry bullying before this. Anyway now that's out of the way, it's off topic so, maybe move on?

Wibbs · 18-11-2019 10:46pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure and while you sit around critiquing anyone who even tries to support men's issues

I critique feminists and redpillers, because they're both daft and about as much use as tits on a bull when it comes to men's issues. If I hear someone describe themselves as a "male feminist" or a "redpiller" the words that most often spring to mind are thundering fuckwit.

I critique someone like you because as usual your entire "debate" on the matter is based on deflection, misrepresentation, low level goading, with a large helping of passive aggressiveness and a dollop of ChickThink on the side. Though more fool me for engaging with you, so mea culpa there. I would advise the rest of ye to leave him/her to their tiresome and transparent ballsology on this subject. The lady's not for turning. I will now take my own advice and my leave for a nice change.

As for the future of men's rights and men themselves? Meh, these things always go in cycles. A mere generation ago was quite different in attitudes to men and women and in another generation or so, it'll be different again. And as always some will end up as victims of the cycle de jour, but for the most part, most people, men and women just plough on living their lives, while the harpies harp on, until the cycle turns again.

El_Duderino 09 · 18-11-2019 10:57pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I critique feminists and redpillers, because they're both daft and about as much use as tits on a bull when it comes to men's issues. If I hear someone describe themselves as a "male feminist" or a "redpiller" the words that most often spring to mind are thundering fuckwit.

I critique someone like you because as usual your entire "debate" on the matter is based on deflection, misrepresentation, low level goading, with a large helping of passive aggressiveness and a dollop of ChickThink on the side. Though more fool me for engaging with you, so mea culpa there. I would advise the rest of ye to leave him/her to their tiresome and transparent ballsology on this subject. The lady's not for turning. I will now take my own advice and my leave for a nice change.

As for the future of men's rights and men themselves? Meh, these things always go in cycles. A mere generation ago was quite different in attitudes to men and women and in another generation or so, it'll be different again. And as always some will end up as victims of the cycle de jour, but for the most part, most people, men and women just plough on living their lives, while the harpies harp on, until the cycle turns again.

This is it, "Meh". While some people actually care about men's issues and want to promote them, others couldn't give a "meh". All the while being much more interested in calling those who care thundering fcuk wits than doing anything constructive.

Luckily there are people who care and with a bit of luck and persistent, they'll promote men's issues in spite of those who stand in opposition.

Ironicname · 18-11-2019 11:35pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Have you gotten over feeling bullied then? I take it since you've gotten into name calling, that you've climbed down off your little pony. Lol.

Misrepresentation yet again. Jesus you are so predictable

Ironicname · 18-11-2019 11:36pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Calling people a back slapping pr1ck and an arzehole, isn't subtle. But I don't suppose you saw anything wrong with that. It was just funny because the same poster said they were feeling bullied. But it's all a bit off topic.

I never called anyone specifically an arsehole or a back slapping prick. I said I wouldn't support anyone that was.

It's funny because someone felt bullied? Nice.

I never said I felt bullied either. I said that you were a bully.

Better Than Christ · 19-11-2019 3:48am

Well, the big day is upon us and I can't sleep with excitement. Same every International Men's Eve.

Great to see Google getting into the spirit of things.

Hector Savage · 19-11-2019 10:04am

No doodle from Google today!! Shock horror !!
Mary LeBerg the french artists 783rd birthday is much more important to celebrate..

Good on Google

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 10:43am

Hector Savage wrote: »

No doodle from Google today!! Shock horror !!
Mary LeBerg the french artists 783rd birthday is much more important to celebrate..

Good on Google

That's why it would be a good idea to support IMD and grow it. Every tear done one mentions that there's no Google doodle or free coffee on IMD. Events need to be in the public consciousness to get that kind of attention. At that point they can snowball. The difficult part us getting them off the ground against all the opposition.

But those things are peripheral to the messages which need to be delivered. Like the health issues and celebrating the great men who inspire us and help make the world work the way it does.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 10:58am

There are a couple of instances of normal great guys who shaped my upbringing.

One was my grand uncle who lived up the road from. We lived in a small village and he was always a part of the community which is important in a small village. He was old, his knees weren't great anymore, he had cataracts so couldn't see well.

But every bin collection day he would walk up and down the road to bring in everyone's bin. It took him probably well over an hour. I didn't think much about it until someone asked him why he did it. He did it because burglars could tell when people got home on bin day by seeing when the bins were brought in.

So he was doing his bit, with the resources he had, to keep his community safe. Great guy.

Another was my dad who would always scrape my Mam's car on a frosty morning. Ever if we were late he'd take the time to scrape all her windows so they were properly clear of ice.

I remember asking why he did it, why not let her do it herself and he said it was so she could see properly and was safe. They're 2 examples of good men keeping people safe.

Any examples you'd like to share?

Seamai · 19-11-2019 11:11am

I'm scratching my crown jewels in the office all morning and there's nothing the ladies can do about it, this is our day, suck it up.

Hector Savage · 19-11-2019 11:16am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's why it would be a good idea to support IMD and grow it. Every tear done one mentions that there's no Google doodle or free coffee on IMD. Events need to be in the public consciousness to get that kind of attention. At that point they can snowball. The difficult part us getting them off the ground against all the opposition.

But those things are peripheral to the messages which need to be delivered. Like the health issues and celebrating the great men who inspire us and help make the world work the way it does.

In the current climate of wokeness Google will never regognise that.
Men = evil bad rapists.

Google would get so much sh*t of the lunatic left if they had a doodle for this , I wouldn't blame them.

Tomorrow is childers day, they will have a nice doodle for that at least!

titan18 · 19-11-2019 11:19am

Work seem to have done nothing for it this year.

We had Yorkies last year (cos ya know they're for men), so at least we didn't have that awfulness this year.

KSU · 19-11-2019 11:22am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But those things are peripheral to the messages which need to be delivered. Like the health issues and celebrating the great men who inspire us and help make the world work the way it does.

The problem is that the narrative is "becoming a better man" it isn't really highlighting the issues it is pushing the year round agenda that what makes men men is somehow inherently bad and needs to be changed.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 11:30am

KSU wrote: »

The problem is that the narrative is "becoming a better man" it isn't really highlighting the issues it is pushing the year round agenda that what makes men men is somehow inherently bad and needs to be changed.

Yes. Some people see it like that. If they highlight men's health it's seen by some as highlighting illness in men. If they highlight things like mental illness and encourage men to seek help its seen by some as highlighting weakness in men. If they give examples of good male role models, its seen by some as telling men to be better because they're bad people to begin with. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So I wouldn't spend too much time worrying that everyone isn't happy. How much time should you spend trying to please everyone? I'd be happy with the normal approach of mass awareness campaigns, getting the info to the men who need it and to the public generally to build support for more funding to address men's issues.

dvdman1 · 19-11-2019 11:33am

Lets go with mens month
Government initiatives like ever 3rd beer free should be introduced along with the banning of womens headaches for the month.
Trow in a 50% discount in woodies n b&q i think it'll be a hit.

Hector Savage · 19-11-2019 11:44am

https://twitter.com/ralpha060461/status/1196738748987383808?s=20

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 12:10pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ralpha060461/status/1196738748987383808?s=20

Am I the only one who thinks it's good to soldier on and bottle stuff up to an extent? You know, sometimes you just have chin up (which could be a point of pride in a trying time) until your life situation improves itself or is improved.

I know the current theory is that men need to talk more about their feelings, and I do agree to an extent, but I honestly don't see the problem with just soldiering on. Imo, it could be quite healthy.

But, I also think anger is a healthy emotion

Better Than Christ · 19-11-2019 12:11pm

Seamai wrote: »

I'm scratching my crown jewels in the office all morning and there's nothing the ladies can do about it, this is our day, suck it up.

Same. Arrived into the office at 9am and just slapped it straight out onto the desk.

I don't even work in an office. They're all wondering who I am and what I'm doing here. Apparently the guards are on the way.

Sabre0001 · 19-11-2019 12:15pm

Happy International Men's Day!

A trending topic on Twitter with posts highlighting men who are breaking down the stigma of talking about mental health, for one. It's a conversation worth having throughout the year (and thankfully we're seeing an uptick in discussion, awareness and support throughout the year), but in particular when there's a focal point on issues faced by men in particular. I thought this was a good ad that ran over the Rugby World Cup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qC1_HRMZHM

Anyone doing Movember? Mo's must be looking pretty impressive at this stage. I tried one year and wasn't allowed within 100m of playgrounds

Not a good look!

It's easy to look to the things that happen on International Women's Day and feel put out. BUT it's worth remembering that a lot of those things didn't come easy. It took lobbying and people starting things at a grassroots level themselves; it takes work. When will International Men's Day get a Google Doodle? It might help if people weren't searching for International Men's Day only in March (though there was an uptick last year at the right time of year which is good to see)...

As I grow older, something that I would like to see rolled out is a routine national prostate screening programme. I know that I (and I'm sure many other males) will put off visits to the doctor in the hopes of things sorting themselves out / it just being something minor. So on this International Men's Day, I'm going to highlight that each year, more than 3,600 men are diagnosed with prostate cancer in Ireland. There are risk factors such as age, diet, and family history, but early detection can save your life: https://www.cancer.ie/reduce-your-risk/health-education/cancer-awareness-campaigns/prostate-cancer-awareness/facts-about-prostate-cancer#sthash.MTGnx54t.dpbs. In an uplifting (?) story, volunteers organised a free screening event in London again this year and thousands showed up to avail of the test.

19-11-2019 12:16pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's good to soldier on and bottle stuff up to an extent? You know, sometimes you just have chin up (which could be a point of pride in a trying time) until your life situation improves itself or is improved.

I know the current theory is that men need to talk more about their feelings, and I do agree to an extent, but I honestly don't see the problem with just soldiering on. Imo, it could be quite healthy.

But, I also think anger is a healthy emotion

That's a good point.

Absolutely soldiering on works for a lot of people (not just men) and then some people could do with opening up.

That's why focussing on the great hive mind of "men" and "women" rather than accepting that each person is an individual is a little trite. There is no catch all.

That's why the vilification of "men" (lets teach men not to rape) and the victimisation of "women" (I believe her) that is prevalent in the media is damaging for both sexes.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 12:18pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's good to soldier on and bottle stuff up to an extent? You know, sometimes you just have chin up (which could be a point of pride in a trying time) until your life situation improves itself or is improved.

I know the current theory is that men need to talk more about their feelings, and I do agree to an extent, but I honestly don't see the problem with just soldiering on. Imo, it could be quite healthy.

But, I also think anger is a healthy emotion

Depends what the battle is. Soldiering on is completely appropriate in some situations. Soldiering on with serious mental or physical health issues is much less appropriate. In those instances, getting help is much better advice, wouldn't you agree?

If normal everyday situations are causing unusual levels of distress, it suggests theres something unusual going on so its is a bad idea to soldier regardless.

Hector Savage · 19-11-2019 12:19pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks it's good to soldier on and bottle stuff up to an extent? You know, sometimes you just have chin up (which could be a point of pride in a trying time) until your life situation improves itself or is improved.

I know the current theory is that men need to talk more about their feelings, and I do agree to an extent, but I honestly don't see the problem with just soldiering on. Imo, it could be quite healthy.

But, I also think anger is a healthy emotion

I agree, I was posting it not necessarily in agreement just that at least they acknowledge it.

The better life gets in western civ. the worse people's mental health gets - we are spoiled, too much time to overthink things.

There is a lot to be said for the strong silent type , like T. Soprano would say in Sopranos.

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 12:29pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends what the battle is. Soldiering on is completely appropriate in some situations. Soldiering on with serious mental or physical health issues is much less appropriate. In those instances, getting help is much better advice, wouldn't you agree?

If normal everyday situations are causing unusual levels of distress, it suggests theres something unusual going on so its is a bad idea to soldier regardless.

In fairness, if a man is taking care of his family, he can't really have the time to change job quickly if it's causing him stress, in the same way a new mother can't really throw in the towel.

It's interesting how the past had positive words for male mental health. 'Keep your chin up', 'Soldier on', and a few others that I can't remember. It turned mental health into a battle which might fit some men's mentality better than seeing it as something that you need to talk about and pause in life.

Imo, there could be some truth to this due to the different ways men and women have been socialised for hundreds of years.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 12:31pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

In fairness, if a man is taking care of his family, he can't really have the time to change job quickly if it's causing him stress, in the same way a new mother can't really throw in the towel.

It's interesting how the past had positive words for male mental health. 'Keep your chin up', 'Soldier on', and a few others that I can't remember. It turned mental health into a battle which might fit some men's mentality better than seeing it as something that you need to talk about and pause in life.

Imo, there could be some truth to this due to the different ways men and women have been socialised for hundreds of years.

So what would you say to a mate who’s struggling?

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 12:39pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So what would you say to a mate who’s struggling?

Dunno. I'm more thinking of the broad society rather than the individual as the individual can be different on a case by case basis, but I do think suicide is a sociological phenomenon.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 12:41pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Dunno. I'm more thinking of the broad society rather than the individual as the individual can be different on a case by case basis, but I do think suicide is a sociological phenomenon.

OK well, in the meantime I'm perfectly happy to raise awareness of mental health and the need for services for people who need help. And then to make those helping services available to those who need them and remove the social barriers to seeking that help.

Would you agree?

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 12:44pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK well, in the meantime I'm perfectly happy to raise awareness of mental health and the need for services for people who need help. And then to make those helping services available to those who need them and remove the social barriers to seeking that help.

Would you agree?

Sure. Why not?

Bobblehats · 19-11-2019 1:11pm

Happy mens day. Am I doing it right?

19-11-2019 1:24pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

Happy mens day. Am I doing it right?

I'd tell you, but it would be mansplaining.

Bobblehats · 19-11-2019 1:40pm

Tried to throw us a curve ball after last night but where there’s a stool there’s a spool.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 2:04pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Sure. Why not?

Great. Welcome onboard!

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 5:07pm

You know, I think I'd try and focus on telling men that anger is an okay emotion. It is good to get it out of your system, to motivate yourself during times of trouble and to stand up for your own autonomy. And, due to some theories that deppression is anger internalised, then perhaps it is good to externalise it to help stop suicides.

How do you think that would go down telling men that anger is okay? :pac:

El_Duderino 09 · 19-11-2019 5:08pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

You know, I think I'd try and focus on telling men that anger is an okay emotion. It is good to get it out of your system, to motivate yourself during times of trouble and to stand up for your own autonomy. And, due to some theories that deppression is anger internalised, then perhaps it is good to externalise it to help stop suicides.

How do you think that would go down telling men that anger is okay? :pac:

Id consider it great. Dealing with emotions is healthy.

Reviews and Books Galore · 19-11-2019 5:12pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Id consider it great. Dealing with emotions is healthy.

Good, and I do mean that. A lot of people would be worried about it increasing male violence against women, but men should not be seen in the paradigim of males hurting women.

Anger is just another type of emotion. A woman might need anger if she is being bellitled, or going through a tough time and needs the motivator, or just needs to stand her ground. The same is true for men.

silverharp · 19-11-2019 7:39pm

for the day that's in it

https://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1196820031872606208

International Men's Day 19th November

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