Volcanic ash discussion here please!

therecklessone · 05-05-2010 6:34pm

mel.b wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to a site with predictions for the path of the volcanic ash? I've got a course next week in the UK and am flying SNN-LGW on Monday am. Just wondering if I should be thinking about booking the ferry as a back up.

Cheers,
mel.b

Keep an eye on:

https://twitter.com/eurocontrol

Volcanic Ash Advisories

Predicted Ash concentration charts

https://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/index.html

ewj1978 · 05-05-2010 8:33pm

Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?

andy_g · 05-05-2010 8:39pm

ewj1978 wrote: »

Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?

its hard to say really as the iaa are only giving information out every few hours and basically the airports are deciding when to open if they can and the time is only estimates

Our man in Havana · 05-05-2010 8:42pm

If they have already cancelled the flight, it will stay cancelled.

donkey balls · 05-05-2010 8:52pm

from my experience working in ops all you can go by is the metars/sigmets local airport mgmt on when/if the airport re opens.
to be honest it's a waiting game all my mates thought i used to be able to go home, but at the last minute you could get a call to say all systems go that meant crew calls to the hotel getting the FBO in place etc.

wittymoniker · 05-05-2010 10:49pm

ewj1978 wrote: »

Hi guys...was due to fly out from Cork at 8.55 tomorrow morning...Flight was cancelled an hour ago by Aer lingus..
Yet The IAA just announced (20.30) that the airport will now open at 0400... Is there any chance this aircraft will be reinstated for the original departure time?

I'd imagine this is down to there being no aircraft to operate the flight in the morning, ie, it's stuck somewhere besides Cork for the night.

andy_g · 07-05-2010 10:06pm

here the current chart but mainly the atlantic affected.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1273253030.png

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 07-05-2010 10:58pm

What I would like to know is, how is this cloud causing so much devestation? There is a little tiny bit of dust on my car, I cannot see anything. I can understand the complexities and how fragile a jet engine can be, but I cannot understand how this cloud is so powerful. Please excuse my ignorance.

This infraction is currently being reversed to a warning.
Andy

The_Joker · 08-05-2010 3:54am

Pretty handy live tracking site here with the ash cloud displayed

Andrew33 · 08-05-2010 12:35pm

Just looking at radarvirtuel today and all the transatlantic stuff is coming/going in a north/south direction up over Scotland. Seem to be going tru the narrowest band of ash cloud. I wonder do they continue north and go over the pole or would they turn west after Faroe Isles?

Tenger · 08-05-2010 3:17pm

Some flights from the States overnight over Greenland,turned south east over Iceland, over the Faroes and then to Scotland.

Heres a pic of the volcanic ash plume taken inflight earlier this morning:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbringer/4588573651/

highlydebased · 08-05-2010 6:20pm

the NATS are very northerly. See the map at the bottom here. http://www.blackswan.ch/nat/

aircraft tech trng · 14-05-2010 1:33pm

To understand the severity of volcanic ash I've taken the 1st few lines from an aircraft maintenance manual for the inspection of an aircraft after a flight through the ash:

WARNING : DO NOT BREATHE VOLCANIC ASH. DO NOT GET VOLCANIC ASH IN YOUR EYES. PUT ON PROTECTIVE CLOTHES, EYE GOGGLES AND A RESPIRATOR MASK. MAKE SURE THAT THE RESPIRATOR MASK CAN REMOVE VOLCANIC ASH FROM THE AIR. VOLCANIC ASH CAN CAUSE EYE IRRITATION AND INJURY TO THE RESPIRATORY SYSTEM.
.
(1) Volcanic ash
(a) Volcanic ash is hard, very abrasive and acid (pH between 2 and neutral). It can cause erosion/abrasion, etching or shot-peening on the surfaces and can remove the finishes/protection and thus cause damage/corrosion.
(b) The ash particles can be of different sizes but the texture of volcanic ash is almost the same as talcum powder and can enter all orifices and go through many seals. Volcanic ash will stay:
- on bare and lubricated surfaces.
- in all corners.
- in bottom places.
It can cause unusual wear and contamination of many aircraft systems and filter elements.
(c) The volcanic ash will melt when it goes through the combustion chamber of the engines.
The melted ash has very high adhesive qualities and bonds to engine parts and thus decreases engine performance. It may obstruct the fuel injectors and can cause an engine shutdown.
(2) Inspection requirements
(a) Volcanic ash can cause severe damage/contamination on the structure / systems of the aircraft.
It is not possible to estimate the quantity and the type of damage after volcanic ash contamination. Therefore, it is necessary to do a full inspection of the aircraft to know the damage and make a decision about the necessary repair/action.
(b) All the necessary inspections are visual unless the text gives other instructions.
Operators can refer to the Non-destructive Testing Manual (NTM) and use non-destructive procedures.
(c) If you find damage to the aircraft structure, refer to the Structural Repair Manual (SRM). The SRM has the approved damage limits and repair procedures.
(d) If you find damage to paint/protection, refer to the Structural Repair Manual (SRM). The SRM has the approved paint/protection repair procedures.
(e) Examine the aircraft surfaces, structures, systems for contamination, erosion/abrasion, dents, etching, delamination or other damage.

sharkman · 16-05-2010 2:31pm

Dublin Airport will close 1900L - 0900L on the 17th
more info to follow after IAA conf call

BrianD · 17-05-2010 12:02am

News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?

goat2 · 17-05-2010 12:24am

BrianD wrote: »

News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?

what is the latest of the ash

EchoIndia · 17-05-2010 12:24am

BrianD wrote: »

News reports over the weekend suggested that the IAA are conducting test flights into the plume. Are they and if so what aircraft are they using?

Lufthansa A340-600 DAIHE overflew the country on Sunday morning at a variety of flight levels between FL250 and FL120 and was specially instrumented for collection of data on the atmospheric conditions.

Run_to_da_hills · 18-05-2010 12:00am

According to this report this Weekends Ash crises over the UK was a false alarm from the British met office.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279221/The-ash-cloud-Inaccurate-Met-Office-forecast-causes-airport-chaos-50-000.html

Oscar Bravo · 18-05-2010 12:46am

EI-CFY from Weston carried out the IAA's test flights yesterday.(Cessna 172).

aircraft tech trng · 21-05-2010 12:51pm

Here ;s what happens to an engine when it's flown through a volcanic ash cloud. This is a Cessna Citation Jet (CJ2) out of Germany a few weeks ago

Foggy43 · 24-05-2010 9:07pm

I'm afraid this is a hoax.

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/cessna-citation-ash-damage.shtml

Also this is confirmed a hoax in the Cessna Citation Forum. A technical issue with the engines diffuser caused the damage.....

Engine Damage Not Caused by Volcanic Ash
Dramatic photos circulating on the Internet purporting to show a Williams International FJ44-3A-24 installed on a Cessna Citation CJ2+ destroyed by exposure to volcanic ash from the recent eruption in Iceland are “complete fiction,” according to Brad Thress, Cessna vice president of product support. The incident occurred about a month before the April eruption, he said. “It’s viral,” Thress said. “We get hundreds of e-mails here…It’s interesting how things can take off on the Internet.” What caused the damage is a known issue with the engine’s diffuser, he said. Williams has already sent a letter to operators warning about the potential for the diffuser to fail. The failure mode is caused by a harmonic vibration that cracks the fuel manifold, and the engine company notified operators that signs of shifting or cracking of the diffuser include a shift in ITT, fuel odor in the cabin or difficulty removing the diffuser or start nozzle, according to Thress. Cessna is planning to release an alert service letter on this issue, and diffusers are being replaced during the next scheduled maintenance event. “It is a fleet issue,” he said, “not related to volcano activity.”

Dacian · 24-05-2010 9:26pm

My immediate thougths with that Citation pic was "Why didn't I read this elsewhere on the internet if it happened a couple of weeks ago" Also if ash caused this the fuselage seems pretty pistine for what look like an explosive event on the engine. I thought the ash clogged the engines rather than cause explosive damage?

aircraft tech trng · 01-06-2010 5:22pm

electric69 · 02-06-2010 10:51pm

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

EI-CFY from Weston carried out the IAA's test flights yesterday.(Cessna 172).

piston engines arent effected so sending a 172 up would be for nothing more than data collection and not for engine testing

aircraft tech trng · 05-06-2010 12:08pm

Pilots 'can navigate safely through volcanic ash'
By David Learmount

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/04/342814/pilots-can-navigate-safely-through-volcanic-ash.html

The aircraft-mounted passive infrared volcanic ash detector system called Avoid that is being tested by EasyJet and Airbus was developed some years ago by the Climate and Atmosphere Department of the Norwegian Institute for Air Research, but no-one took up the idea until now.
Dr Fred Prata of the institute says that being able to "see" the ash is the key to being able to navigate through it safely, because it is not distributed uniformly throughout the block of airspace downwind of the volcano that is producing it.
Prata explains: "I think it needs to be stressed that volcanic ash never fills the skies and there are always routes around the hazard. This is what happens in most parts of the world now, especially, Alaska, Japan and Indonesia, where airlines make quite large, costly diversions to avoid ash clouds forecast by models and observed from satellites. With Avoid fitted these diversions would be shorter, and more direct routes could be found."

pclancy · 18-09-2010 11:20pm

Thanks to everyone for contributing so much to this thread.

Time now to un-stick and let it drift in the boards waves...

kowloon · 19-09-2010 1:10am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaHpHcCwMcc

Lapin · 23-05-2011 8:37pm

Here we go again.

That graphic on www.flightradar24.com looks ominous.

Hope its all forgotten about this time next week.

andy_g · 23-05-2011 9:52pm

Going to stick this again to be on the safe side.

IrishB.ie · 23-05-2011 9:59pm

pclancy wrote: »

Time now to un-stick and let it drift in the boards waves...

Backwash.......:)

MicK10rt · 23-05-2011 11:39pm

looks like the BAW239 from london to boston is turning back to shannon. Wonder if this is ash related.

http://www.flightradar24.com/

heard on liveatc. Reporting smoke in the cockpit

MicK10rt · 24-05-2011 1:37am

Latest forecast from the Met Office.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1306194460.png

Lapin · 24-05-2011 8:34am

The Irish Aviation Authority have ordered airlines to suspend all flights to Scotland.
Ryanair say 36 flights have been cancelled today as a result.

Meanwhille the Civil Aviation Authority in the UK has left it up to individual airlines to make their own decisions. So we have BMI are still operating out of Scotland, but British Airways are not.

The result - Confusion and ultimately chaos.

Would it not be feasible for Ryanair to re-route some of their Scottish bound flights to Newcastle instead, in order to avoid the inevitable knock on effects the disruption will have on their schedules?

At least passengers choosing to accept this alternative can continue their journey to Scotland by rail or road.

Tenger · 24-05-2011 8:54am

The IAA ban seems very heavy handed.

24-05-2011 12:05pm

Do you think flights from Aberdeen to Dublin tomorrow will be cancelled?

novarock · 24-05-2011 12:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you think flights from Aberdeen to Dublin tomorrow will be cancelled?

I would reckon that after last years blanket bans and the cost involved that this year, if there is even a window of three hours they will fly.. unfortunately you wont know until the day..

24-05-2011 12:35pm

novarock wrote: »

I would reckon that after last years blanket bans and the cost involved that this year, if there is even a window of three hours they will fly.. unfortunately you wont know until the day..

Crap because I am not sure whether I should book my bag onto the flight!:/

novarock · 24-05-2011 12:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Crap because I am not sure whether I should book my bag onto the flight!:/

If they dont fly its refundable..

silverharp · 24-05-2011 1:14pm

O'Leary - "The only dense material is in the UK Met office"

thats fighting talk!

Musicman2000 · 24-05-2011 2:15pm

silverharp wrote: »

O'Leary - "The only dense material is in the UK Met office"

thats fighting talk!

He was on Sky news this morning, He said they put up an aircraft around Scotland for an hour and a half this morning and it came back with no signs of volcanic ash on it, and went on to say there is no ash cloud in Scotland.

Then 20 minutes later the UK transport minister comes on Sky news, and says they had tracked the ryanair craft on radar and it never went near the ash cloud. So who’s right and who’s wrong:)

A Dub in Glasgo · 24-05-2011 3:23pm

Ryanair statement

Ryanair confirms that it operated a one hour verification flight up to 41,000 feet in Scottish airspace this morning (24th May). The aircraft took off from Glasgow Prestwick, flew to Inverness, on to Aberdeen and down to Edinburgh - all of which according to the UK Met Office charts were in the “red zone” of “high ash concentration”.

During the flight there was no visible volcanic ash cloud or any other presence of volcanic ash and the post flight inspection revealed no evidence of volcanic ash on the airframe, wings or engines. The absence of any volcanic ash in the atmosphere supports Ryanair’s stated view that there is no safety threat to aircraft in this mythical “red zone” which is another misguided invention by the UK Met. Office and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Ryanair has received written confirmation from both its airframe and engine manufacturers that it is safe to operate in these so called “red zones” and, in any event, Ryanair’s verification flight this morning confirms that the “red zone” over Scotland is non-existent.

Ryanair has renewed its calls on both the UK CAA and the IAA to reopen the airspace over Scotland and allow airlines to operate flights safely following this morning’s verification flight which has demonstrated that the UK Met Office’s “red zone” forecasts are totally unreliable and unsupported by any evidence of volcanic ash concentrations whatsoever.

Lapin · 24-05-2011 3:47pm

Musicman2000 wrote: »

He was on Sky news this morning, He said they put up an aircraft around Scotland for an hour and a half this morning and it came back with no signs of volcanic ash on it, and went on to say there is no ash cloud in Scotland.

Then 20 minutes later the UK transport minister comes on Sky news, and says they had tracked the ryanair craft on radar and it never went near the ash cloud. So who’s right and who’s wrong:)

O'Leary (and I) will argue that Ryanair are right, as none of their scheduled services from Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow go near the ash cloud either and its therefore perfectly safe to fly them.

busyliving · 24-05-2011 4:39pm

Hey guys, just a quick one for ye...how low did last years ash issue cause trouble for? Was in more that 4 weeks?

Captain Commie · 24-05-2011 6:17pm

busyliving wrote: »

Hey guys, just a quick one for ye...how low did last years ash issue cause trouble for? Was in more that 4 weeks?

cant remember, but if this one goes on that long im screwed, flying to london for weekend in june

Tenger · 25-05-2011 1:28am

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2011/05/icelands_volcano?fsrc=rss

AS RYANAIR is reportedly continuing to check in passengers at Edinburgh, despite the airport being out of action due to the ash cloud, this just in from the "Have I Got News For You" Twitter feed:

"Amid a clash over flight disruptions, a Ryanair spokesman says the ash cloud is going nowhere near any major airports. Just like Ryanair"

gerbear1 · 25-05-2011 9:46am

Looks like BA did a similar test flight to Ryanair and also found it safe to fly:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8534970/Iceland-volcano-BA-test-flight-found-nothing.html

This ban is looking ridiculous if this is the 2nd test in the red zone that has shown up with nothing. It's like as if they are trying to save face or something and make O'Leary look like the bad guy.

lord lucan · 25-05-2011 11:35am

To be honest this reminds me of the last event last year. The Aviation Authorities are being super cautious and closing airspace at minimum risk whilst the Airlines are pushing hard saying it's all good and there's no risk.

Like much in life,the truth is somewhere in between. I do think the Aviation Authorities are a bit Gung Ho with airspace closures but likewise i wouldn't trust an airline boss saying they sent an aircraft up and it's grand. They're making no money whilst aircraft are sitting on the ground and it's in their interests to get things moving.

Colibri · 25-05-2011 11:47am

Hmm, more disruptions? Does anyone have any idea about Spain? My girlfriend is supposed to be coming home tomorrow from there - hope the flight isn't disrupted!

homerjay2005 · 25-05-2011 11:52am

champions league final plans for saturday morning lie unsure, what are the chances of cancellations for sat morning to london?

highlydebased · 25-05-2011 4:10pm

Colibri wrote: »

Hmm, more disruptions? Does anyone have any idea about Spain? My girlfriend is supposed to be coming home tomorrow from there - hope the flight isn't disrupted!

99% sure there won't be disruption for Spain- the only disruption that may occur to that flight could be delayed/displaced aircraft affected somewhere else

Volcanic ash discussion here please!

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