Remote working - the future?

01-06-2021 12:38pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Google extending the Treasury building to accommodate another 600 staff.

Offices going nowhere.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/09/google-abandons-dublin-office-with-space-for-2000-staff.html

Offices going... somewhere?

What an absurd argument. LOL.

Sunny Disposition · 01-06-2021 2:16pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Google extending the Treasury building to accommodate another 600 staff.

Offices going nowhere.

Google would be so profitable that the cost of buying or leasing property isn't as important to them. I don't think they'd be a good barometer really.

ineedeuro · 01-06-2021 2:27pm

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Google would be so profitable that the cost of buying or leasing property isn't as important to them. I don't think they'd be a good barometer really.

No chance, you will have people hired by google and are paid a bonus based on costs etc. It doesn't matter how many billion google are making they are just interested in their section and driving the best deal so they get a large bonus.

If google was run like that they would be bankrupt in a few years as people spent money for no reason all over the place

Sunny Disposition · 01-06-2021 2:47pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

No chance, you will have people hired by google and are paid a bonus based on costs etc. It doesn't matter how many billion google are making they are just interested in their section and driving the best deal so they get a large bonus.

If google was run like that they would be bankrupt in a few years as people spent money for no reason all over the place

I don't fully agree with you, obviously it does have to be run well. But not downsizing office space immediately isn't going to help their business in the way it is helping mine. Smaller businesses might rather have some workers in offices, but the cost saving is too good to pass up. I don't think it's the same for Google who have to stay at the cutting edge of innovation and do have the ability afford to pay for property if they feel it can help that.

01-06-2021 3:19pm

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

01-06-2021 3:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

"Offices going nowhere."

Fact.

PhilOssophy · 01-06-2021 3:27pm

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

markpb · 01-06-2021 3:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

OPW was looking for extra space for an expansion of my Department (summer 2019?) and the Treasury Building was one of the buildings they looked at and it was full.

So, who moved out of the Treasury Building that there is now enough extra space for 600 more google employees?

Google bought the Treasury Building over a year ago. NTMA were there before, they moved to the new Dublin Landings building.

01-06-2021 3:42pm

dkav9 wrote: »

Google also have 3 (I think) separate office buildings with umpteen facilities for staff, solely for the purpose of keeping their staff in as long as possible

The actions of one employer does not signal that everybody will be back.

If you've had any experience with Google, and I mean the culture not the website, you would know they are not exactly a rallying call for WFH. My ex-girlfriend worked for them and it was a wonder she got any work done with all the events they held that werent exactly compulsory but you were under pressure to attend.

Weekly movie nights, lunchtime ping pong tournaments. Google want people in the office.

Im going to bow out of this thread now. There are a couple of posters taking things personally that the majority do not want to go back to the office. Its heartening to know that out of a poll of 300+ people only 16 want to return to a 5 day week in the office.

01-06-2021 3:43pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

I think the winning employer is the one who can reduce their office needs and therefore lower their costs. If they can achieve this while maintaining productivity then it's a no brainer, you have to reduce office use. Otherwise you are throwing money away.

I look forward to someone not reading my post properly and responding with a straw man argument.

01-06-2021 4:11pm

Google is a bad example as their entire system of work is built around ensuring staff remain in the office for as many hours as possible

Its the same poor example as the WeWork CEO who said the office is better......what do you expect a CEO of an office rental company to say

ineedeuro · 01-06-2021 4:17pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Did anybody ever say offices are going somewhere? We'd hardly have cities without them.
I think what you'll find, is that offices suit plenty of people. Some people love being in the office, some love the stench of power and finger-waving ability an office affords.
Some others are happy to work away remotely, don't care if they never see anybody again.
Some love a mix.
There is room for all of these. The big winner will be the employer who doesn't care which you prefer and will provide any of these.

Seemingly very soon the city centres are going to be a waste land of empty office, no shops and no restaurants. Well according to this thread anyway. Personally I have a different opinion

01-06-2021 4:27pm

ineedeuro wrote: »

Seemingly very soon the city centres are going to be a waste land of empty office, no shops and no restaurants. Well according to this thread anyway. Personally I have a different opinion

A few people seem to be impervious to the word "hybrid".

Very black and white in their thinking. I certainly wouldn't hire them.

01-06-2021 5:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Google is a bad example as their entire system of work is built around ensuring staff remain in the office for as many hours as possible

Its the same poor example as the WeWork CEO who said the office is better......what do you expect a CEO of an office rental company to say

Was it Google who offered to pay for their female employees to freeze their eggs?!

Or did I imagine that...

01-06-2021 5:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it Google who offered to pay for their female employees to freeze their eggs?!

Or did I imagine that...

It was reported. Not sure how true it is

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 6:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him change his opinion.

There are a few people on this thread whose opinions are not for changing. Some perfect examples:

"Get a job nearer your home"
"Just buy a car!"
....

All reasonable, helpful suggestions, just not based in the realities of most people.

The irony is those things are about making changes.

You're arguing about not changing.

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 6:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've had any experience with Google, and I mean the culture not the website, you would know they are not exactly a rallying call for WFH. My ex-girlfriend worked for them and it was a wonder she got any work done with all the events they held that werent exactly compulsory but you were under pressure to attend.

Weekly movie nights, lunchtime ping pong tournaments. Google want people in the office.

Im going to bow out of this thread now. There are a couple of posters taking things personally that the majority do not want to go back to the office. Its heartening to know that out of a poll of 300+ people only 16 want to return to a 5 day week in the office.

Google at this point are a parody of themselves.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 6:44pm

givyjoe wrote: »

Jesus wept, I should immediately rock out and buy a car, straight out of college with no license? Your also assuming parking was available, which it often wasn't. What has an average (of a Pan European study) got to do with individuals? Or specific personal examples that I and others were providing. Personal circumstance mean not everyone is flexible to move home or job, or always work within a reasonable commutable distance. What on earth has that study go to do my personal circumstances at the time, or those of others now? Really shouldn't need to be explained. You should pay closer attention to the posts/examples being provided, I clearly stated "when i first..".

Jesus wept indeed, and yes it really shouldn't need to be explained, if you also paid closer attention to what others posted.

You said you eventually bought a car, I just agreed with you. I dunno that means I'm suggesting everyone buys a car. 1+1=42....

Just because people decide they want longer commutes over other choices, doesn't mean those other choices don't exist. People seem to be upset that a official study, indicates that long commutes are the minority. So there other choices. Even if you choose not to take them.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 6:47pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

More people should commute by bike, been doing it years (pandemic aside) and best thing I ever bought. Bike has paid for itself about 5 times over in saved fuel/transport tickets....

I agree cycling is a great option if it works for you.

But if you think people are entrenched in their ideas about WFH, that it will never catch on etc. Try get them cycling. its like asking them to climb Everest.

01-06-2021 7:42pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

The irony is those things are about making changes.

You're arguing about not changing.

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

I think you're referring to myself here.

Correction - I have commuted back and forth to and from various locations around Dublin for approx 40 years (give or take).

I didn't always commute the exact same way. Dependant on the journey involved at times I used public transport, and at others my own private transport. I've used buses, trains, the Dart, and my own car.

I currently use my own transport because public transport would involve at least one change, and a good walk at either end of my commute, and total travel time would probably be a lot longer then 90 minutes.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 9:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...
I didn't always commute the exact same way. ....

If you've changed then I can't possibly have been referring to you. But no it was just a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 10:02pm

We've all been there painted into a corner by circumstance.

But it's human nature to be reluctant to change from the known to the unknown. Remote working is like that. It's obviously not going to suit everyone, and not everyone all of the time. But it obviously does work for some people.

People take things so personally.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 10:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

...

I didn't always commute the exact same way. Dependant on the journey involved at times I used public transport, and at others my own private transport. I've used buses, trains, the Dart, and my own car.

I currently use my own transport because public transport would involve at least one change, and a good walk at either end of my commute, and total travel time would probably be a lot longer then 90 minutes.

Journey times are often counter intuitive. Often you have to test different routes to find out which works best. Routes can also degrade or get better over time.

Remote working can be the same. What works on one project, team or company won't work somewhere else with different people or a different team. Such is life.

01-06-2021 10:56pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

If you've changed then I can't possibly have been referring to you. But no it was just a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

Flinty997 wrote: »

As is someone saying they've commuted the exact same way for 40 yrs.

Rightttt.... because so many other posters have mentioned they've been commuting for 40 years, but .... whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 11:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rightttt.... because so many other posters have mentioned they've been commuting for 40 years, but .... whatever you say. :rolleyes:

.. You just said you didn't...but whatever...

01-06-2021 11:29pm

Flinty997 wrote: »

.. You just said you didn't...but whatever...

Put down the shovel.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 11:34pm

Young_gunner wrote: »

....
What are people's general thoughts on this? I believe many offices may have pressure from Senior Execs to get people back in the office...

Hard to know. Won't really know until the office opens up again. Until then it's all talk.

Flinty997 · 01-06-2021 11:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Put down the shovel.

How do you confuse a builder, give them 3 shovels and ask him to take his pick.

So much for remote working.

Mrs OBumble · 02-06-2021 12:13am

I stated that Bank of Ireland Workbench is closed - and that when it was open, it was not without strings.

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually its the exact opposite of that. As stated on the website "There’s no need to contact anyone before using the space – you’re encouraged to drop in, find a desk, open up your laptop and get to work" and thats it

....

Anyway Mrsb, here is the hub map, have a look, theres 11 locations in Galway, I look forward to hearing whats wrong with each of them

Here is a photo of the building in Eyre Square where BoI workbench was, taken at lunchtime today.

There is no BOI branding on the building, the doors are closed and the interior is dark. It's been like this for a long time.

You can see a picture of how it was, when it was the workbench, here.

With little fanfare BOI announced ages ago that the Workbench was moving to Level 1 of their Mainguard Street. (This page has a map showing the new location). Access was restricted when Covid hit, and I believe has not been restored.

And you are naïve to think that BoI are doing that for any reason other than to sell their services to workbench users.

I'm not going to go through the list for you - but innovation hubs are set up and funded by the LEOs and similar to support ie "incubate" new and emerging businesses. They don't provide extra office space for established business, unless those businesses have a specific growth spurt which meets the innovation objectives. Their goal is to help new businesses succeed and move into spaces of their own, not to provide long-term office space for existing businesses. And - importantly - they provide hot desks without monitors. Just a desk, chair, power supply, wifi. Fine to work at for a while. Not ergonomic, not meant for long term, all-day work. If you doubt this, walk down William Street West and look in the windows of WestWorks.

The offices which could be rented by individual workers in Galway and fitted with ergonomic-friendly equipment that you could leave in place are the Pro-Cathedral building, the building in Flood Street where the Druid offices are, a few others above shops in Francis St etc and similar. Or there are serviced offices (a lot more expensive, but they provide the desk + wifi) - Level 1, Tara Rock Seven, Gray Office Park, Ross House, Plaza Office Suites, ServicedOffices in Oldenway, Glenrock in Ballybane). I looked long and hard at all the options: the trade off is location, security and price. Price was the kicker: A PAYE worker pays the full cost, and gets no tax relief. A company renting the space at least gets corporate tax relief. Unless I was I was prepared to be in the odd corners of industrial estates alone at night (I'm not), then it was at least 600 pcm when I priced things about 9 months ago.

Sunny Disposition · 02-06-2021 12:25am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think the winning employer is the one who can reduce their office needs and therefore lower their costs. If they can achieve this while maintaining productivity then it's a no brainer, you have to reduce office use. Otherwise you are throwing money away.

I look forward to someone not reading my post properly and responding with a straw man argument.

This is 100% the case, getting rid of offices is brilliant when it can be done. What employees want is important of course, but not to the extent of paying for an office if it’s possible not to.

It was fantastic for me when it became clear wfh functioned, I was counting the weeks then until our lease ended. I’m not sure hybrid will be that widespread in the long term, because the companies that opt for it will be a bit less competitive.
I made 20 people redundant in 2012, and it was my worst time in business, would have been great to save a couple of jobs through going remote, but wasn’t possible then, never even crossed my mind tbh. Even if hybrid lasts a while, closing offices won’t really hurt employees and would be the first thing to be cut during any sticky period.
Some of our workers would like a hybrid week I know, but we can’t justify leasing an office to facilitate that.

Remote working - the future?

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