Remote working - the future?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A really long excuse

You have a unique talent at finding a problem with every solution.

Fair enough, enjoy your kitchen table

PhilOssophy

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

This is 100% the case, getting rid of offices is brilliant when it can be done. What employees want is important of course, but not to the extent of paying for an office if it’s possible not to.

It was fantastic for me when it became clear wfh functioned, I was counting the weeks then until our lease ended. I’m not sure hybrid will be that widespread in the long term, because the companies that opt for it will be a bit less competitive.
I made 20 people redundant in 2012, and it was my worst time in business, would have been great to save a couple of jobs through going remote, but wasn’t possible then, never even crossed my mind tbh. Even if hybrid lasts a while, closing offices won’t really hurt employees and would be the first thing to be cut during any sticky period.
Some of our workers would like a hybrid week I know, but we can’t justify leasing an office to facilitate that.

I think this is the point - you can't justify the office, but for every person you might lose because of this, you'll also find others willing to join because of it.

Sunny Disposition

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think this is the point - you can't justify the office, but for every person you might lose because of this, you'll also find others willing to join because of it.

Yeah, unfortunately it's not really about what the employees want so much as can businesses afford not to do it when its possible. Obviously some work requires you to be at a particular place, but very little office work does nowadays.
Companies will face challenges in adapting, but the upside is way too big to miss, or it was for me anyway. I think it's better to embrace it even if you have doubts, get the workers set up, give them the office equipment and computers they need, try and give them some opportunities for social engagement. The wrong approach is to just go back to doing the usual thing because it's more familiar, but no doubt a few will make this mistake.

givyjoe

Flinty997 wrote: »

Jesus wept indeed, and yes it really shouldn't need to be explained, if you also paid closer attention to what others posted.

You said you eventually bought a car, I just agreed with you. I dunno that means I'm suggesting everyone buys a car. 1+1=42....

Just because people decide they want longer commutes over other choices, doesn't mean those other choices don't exist. People seem to be upset that a official study, indicates that long commutes are the minority. So there other choices. Even if you choose not to take them.

For the love of god, can you stick in some actual data then from this study (or the actual link to the study) so we can pull it apart. First point being, how representative of IRELAND is it.. what on relevance have averages from a pan european study got to do with the individuals here. They are averages from a Pan European study as you way, without seeing the finer details, the averages relevant to Ireland are going to be massively skewed by much larger countries. Unless of course it breaks those out, by all means link away.

The point started with someone saying most people haven't worked long commutes, most people have at some point, me included and it isn't as simple as "clickity click" to solve the problem.

Without knowing any of my circumstances or background at the time, you came up with the genius suggestion of "buy a car", as it its as simple as a click of a finger and that's the issue with a number of folks here.. "live too far away?", get another job, "have kids and childcare issues" dont have them. Luckily for most people, WFH does seem to actually resolve a lot of the above issues, hence why so many dont want a return to work in the office.

As for reading closer, you again should take your own advice, no more so in your own posts. I said I bought a car (but years later) in response to your post where you were obviously disagreeing with me, bizarre stuff.

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I stated that Bank of Ireland Workbench is closed - and that when it was open, it was not without strings.




with ergonomic-friendly equipment that you could leave in place are the Pro-Cathedral building, the building in Flood Street where the Druid offices are, a few others above shops in Francis St etc and similar. Or there are serviced offices (a lot more expensive, but they provide the desk + wifi) - Level 1, Tara Rock Seven, Gray Office Park, Ross House, Plaza Office Suites, ServicedOffices in Oldenway, Glenrock in Ballybane). I looked long and hard at all the options: the trade off is location, security and price. Price was the kicker: A PAYE worker pays the full cost, and gets no tax relief. A company renting the space at least gets corporate tax relief. Unless I was I was prepared to be in the odd corners of industrial estates alone at night (I'm not), then it was at least 600 pcm when I priced things about 9 months ago.

I think you should remember this saying
Where there's a will there's a way

Young_gunner

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/only-13-of-natwest-staff-to-return-to-office-full-time-1.4581198

Natwest will offer staff ‘hybrid’, ‘remote first’ and ‘office first’ options post-pandemic.
They expect 32% of staff to opt for a remote first option.

Mrs OBumble

Young_gunner wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/only-13-of-natwest-staff-to-return-to-office-full-time-1.4581198

Natwest will offer staff ‘hybrid’, ‘remote first’ and ‘office first’ options post-pandemic.
They expect 32% of staff to opt for a remote first option.

That is about the proportion I expect too, from real world conversations.

Totally different from what you'd expect given this thread (about 80%r remote only and don't anyone DARE not be the same).

ineedeuro

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That is about the proportion I expect too, from real world conversations.

Totally different from what you'd expect given this thread (about 80%r remote only and don't anyone DARE not be the same).

Sorry but that is totally untrue.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That is about the proportion I expect too, from real world conversations.

Totally different from what you'd expect given this thread (about 80%r remote only and don't anyone DARE not be the same).

Again, total lies.

PhilOssophy

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Yeah, unfortunately it's not really about what the employees want so much as can businesses afford not to do it when its possible. Obviously some work requires you to be at a particular place, but very little office work does nowadays.
Companies will face challenges in adapting, but the upside is way too big to miss, or it was for me anyway. I think it's better to embrace it even if you have doubts, get the workers set up, give them the office equipment and computers they need, try and give them some opportunities for social engagement. The wrong approach is to just go back to doing the usual thing because it's more familiar, but no doubt a few will make this mistake.

I think you are on the button though as regards what employees want. If somebody wants an office vibe, it'd probably be cheaper for you to get them an office in a co-working space than to provide an office for them to go to!

Social engagement will be easy - people who want social interaction will find it. Honestly, I'd rather go meet my friends than colleagues on a Friday night! It might be good for office morale every couple of months.

As somebody always scouting the jobs market, I will absolutely not consider any company whose only offering is full time office. I will maybe consider "hybrid", but to me even hybrid says "old school". If a company says "we can do either remote or office or hybrid", that's my next move. Because that spells forward thinking, let your work do the talking, to me.

tooth*grinder

Deleted User wrote: »

"Offices going nowhere."

Fact.

Well yeah - unless they're in a caravan. Office blocks tend to be fairly hard to move.
In other news, water is wet. FACT.

Antares35

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

(about 80%r remote only and don't anyone DARE not be the same).

Literally nobody has said that except maybe in your head.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Totally different from what you'd expect given this thread (about 80%r remote only and don't anyone DARE not be the same).

Maybe you should have checked the poll on the thread before posting the above.

As of 12:17 on 02/06/21 18.02% of posters who responded to the poll want full remote only.

Thats a long way of 80%.

But sure, don't let the facts stand in the way.

Mc Love

The future of work will involve remote working but the days of the office are not gone. I fwiw am fully behind everyone WFH but i realise thats not what everyone wants or what companies want. There will be solutions in the future of offices to make them more inviting to workers such as having more space at their desks, more services etc.

Remember everyone, there are only two choices: 100% WFH or 100% WFO.

Sunny Disposition

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think you are on the button though as regards what employees want. If somebody wants an office vibe, it'd probably be cheaper for you to get them an office in a co-working space than to provide an office for them to go to!

Social engagement will be easy - people who want social interaction will find it. Honestly, I'd rather go meet my friends than colleagues on a Friday night! It might be good for office morale every couple of months.

As somebody always scouting the jobs market, I will absolutely not consider any company whose only offering is full time office. I will maybe consider "hybrid", but to me even hybrid says "old school". If a company says "we can do either remote or office or hybrid", that's my next move. Because that spells forward thinking, let your work do the talking, to me.

I think people have found the remote working hard at times in part because every other type of social interaction was gone too. It’d have been easier, and will be easier, as the restrictions are rolled back. It must have been particularly hard for people who lived alone and relied on work to meet people. Even for those who didn’t live alone there was no chance of going for a pint or to a match or things like that.

kippy

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I think people have found the remote working hard at times in part because every other type of social interaction was gone too. It’d have been easier, and will be easier, as the restrictions are rolled back. It must have been particularly hard for people who lived alone and relied on work to meet people. Even for those who didn’t live alone there was no chance of going for a pint or to a match or things like that.

Totally agree with this side of it - plus those that had kids, in parts of the past 15 months, had to work fromhome with them in the house - which can be difficult depending on ages etc.

It wasn't a "real" WFH environment and the lack of things to do didn't help anyone.

Sunny Disposition

kippy wrote: »

Totally agree with this side of it - plus those that had kids, in parts of the past 15 months, had to work fromhome with them in the house - which can be difficult depending on ages etc.

It wasn't a "real" WFH environment and the lack of things to do didn't help anyone.

My son had his little fella at home for a couple of months, it was a nightmare for him I know. I have said to everyone who was based in our office that realistically they will still need childcare if their kids are very small, but obviously I won't have a problem as long as the work gets done.

PhilOssophy

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

My son had his little fella at home for a couple of months, it was a nightmare for him I know. I have said to everyone who was based in our office that realistically they will still need childcare if their kids are very small, but obviously I won't have a problem as long as the work gets done.

I think that's the point - the work gets done, who cares when they do it.

Manach

Unsure if this will be the norm, but my current employers are making plans for a phased shift back to work from Sept. Initially just 25% capacity for the next few months and on a volunterary basis.

wes

Mc Love wrote: »

The future of work will involve remote working but the days of the office are not gone. I fwiw am fully behind everyone WFH but i realise thats not what everyone wants or what companies want. There will be solutions in the future of offices to make them more inviting to workers such as having more space at their desks, more services etc.

I reckon co-working could take off, for those who don't have suitable home space for remote working. People could work at local co-working hubs near them, as opposed to having to trek to an office.

ineedeuro

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

My son had his little fella at home for a couple of months, it was a nightmare for him I know. I have said to everyone who was based in our office that realistically they will still need childcare if their kids are very small, but obviously I won't have a problem as long as the work gets done.

During the lockdown childcare was closed, hence why everyone had this issue.

Moving forward, people who WFH should not think it is an opportunity to stop childcare if children are not old enough to look after themselves.

Companies will quickly revert back to office if you have children going nuts in the background while trying to work.

Flinty997

givyjoe wrote: »

For the love of god, can you stick in some actual data then from this study (or the actual link to the study) so we can pull it apart. First point being, how representative of IRELAND is it.. what on relevance have averages from a pan european study got to do with the individuals here. They are averages from a Pan European study as you way, without seeing the finer details, the averages relevant to Ireland are going to be massively skewed by much larger countries. Unless of course it breaks those out, by all means link away.

The study looked at each country. If anyone was vaguely interested they can find the average of Ireland and even the average of Dublin and indeed other cities and even rural vs urban. Its all been widely reported in the media umpteen times over the years.

But if someone decides that stats have nothing to do with individuals then there's not much point doing research anyway. As the viewpoint that a sample of 1 is more relevant to a sample of millions speaks for itself.

givyjoe wrote: »

The point started with someone saying most people haven't worked long commutes, most people have at some point, me included and it isn't as simple as "clickity click" to solve the problem.

Without knowing any of my circumstances or background at the time, you came up with the genius suggestion of "buy a car", as it its as simple as a click of a finger and that's the issue with a number of folks here.. "live too far away?", get another job, "have kids and childcare issues" dont have them. Luckily for most people, WFH does seem to actually resolve a lot of the above issues, hence why so many dont want a return to work in the office.

As for reading closer, you again should take your own advice, no more so in your own posts. I said I bought a car (but years later) in response to your post where you were obviously disagreeing with me, bizarre stuff.

Actually it was your advice, I just mirrored your comment

All I did was point that research and studies, back up that most people (in Ireland/Dublin) don't do 90min commutes. Someone said that opinion was wrong. Its not personal opinion, of either myself or whomever mentioned it originally. Its simply the results of studies. That doesn't mean no one does it. Which I think some assumed it was.

I said I had experience of long commutes, but found ways to reduce them, for example buying a car, same as you did. That's not disagreeing with anything.

Flinty997

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I think that's the point - the work gets done, who cares when they do it.

A lot of place don't actually measure productivity or efficiency properly.
As a result they don't know what getting done or not. They just see doing something differently as bad. Without ever really looking into it.

Mrs OBumble

wes wrote: »

I reckon co-working could take off, for those who don't have suitable home space for remote working. People could work at local co-working hubs near them, as opposed to having to trek to an office.

Who do you reckon will pay the co-working office rental?

Antares35

ineedeuro wrote: »

During the lockdown childcare was closed, hence why everyone had this issue.

Moving forward, people who WFH should not think it is an opportunity to stop childcare if children are not old enough to look after themselves.

Companies will quickly revert back to office if you have children going nuts in the background while trying to work.

Most flexible/ remote working policies have always included a clause that appropriate childcare is in place. It's definitely not sustainable long term to be juggling both. We've done it (creches closed and young baby in the house) and it's really tough. Going forward, we will both be hybrid WFH (fiancé has 60:40 split and I can choose 0-5 days office based) and we will have a childminder in for when we work. I'd go mad otherwise

Young_gunner

I read that Apple employees are pushing back against a forced return to the office - good on them!

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/6/4/22491629/apple-employees-push-back-return-office-internal-letter-tim-cook

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57339105

I really hope this isn't the case. I love working from home. I have a 4 year old whom I've seen a lot more. I'm not spending two hours a day in a car and I'm not spending €300pm just to get to the office.

BrianD3

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57339105

I really hope this isn't the case. I love working from home. I have a 4 year old whom I've seen a lot more. I'm not spending two hours a day in a car and I'm not spending €300pm just to get to the office.

Link seems to be intermittently broken but i got the following from it

The five-day office week could become the norm again within two years, the Centre for Cities think tank has told the BBC.

The Centre For Cities think tank which is "hopeful that we will see people return five days a week" and according to their website "is dedicated to improving the economies of the UK's largest cities and towns".

No bias there then.

ineedeuro

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57339105

I really hope this isn't the case. I love working from home. I have a 4 year old whom I've seen a lot more. I'm not spending two hours a day in a car and I'm not spending €300pm just to get to the office.

That kind of like going to McDonalds and asking them to run a report on if Fast Food is good for you, you know the answer before the report is provided.