Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Options
1…241242244246247…322

Comments

  • Options
    #7292
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    GreeBo wrote: »
    How many times did Tiger or Nicklaus choke when in contention?
    If its simply down to being in contention more often, then both players above should have multiple examples of this.
    They didnt always win when in contention, but they rarely threw it away like Rory *seems* to frequently do before having a late rally to get into the placings.

    Nicklaus finished in the Top 5 in 55 majors winning 18 - roughly a 33% SR and McIllroy has won 4 from 11 Top 5 finishes, a SR of roughly 36%.

    Woods won 15 from 33, a SR of 45% - nicely ahead of the two lads, but still failed to win more often than not.

    So Nicklaus and Woods are 'chokers' as well??

    Putting 'seems' in asteriks doesnt alter the fact that you are talking through your hat!


  • Options
    #7293
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    I think everyone knows that based on statistics or eye, Rory on talent and other tournament performances should have won a couple of majors in the past 5 years.

    The problem with people is that they look for a rationale as to why it hasn't occurred. People create narratives which give the illusion of an explanation when the actual reason is too complex to determine.

    Perhaps Rory does think differently during a major but I suspect all golfers do, even Tiger and Jack. I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff as it's used in place of actual causality and given it's obvious ambiguity it allows people to attribute a variety of issues to that "cause".

    In my opinion a more logical explanation of his failure to win majors in the past 5 years is likely that winning in golf is really hard and a sample of 20 tournaments is not that much. Els, Tiger and Jack all went through a similar gap in majors.
    Perhaps in many ways variance has not gone his way in majors while being more favourable to him in other events. He has overachieved in one while underachieving in another.

    That explanation is not the default of many because it leaves the question
    somewhat unanswered and open to interpretation while the alternative of simply attributing the lack of major wins to mentality gives the illusion of a concrete explanation.

    In all honesty perhaps it's a combo of the two plus a myriad of other factors but no matter what the cause, it's quite clear that it's not an easily attainable answer.


  • Options
    #7294
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,823 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Charleigh Inexpensive Electricity wrote: »
    I think everyone knows that based on statistics or eye, Rory on talent and other tournament performances should have won a couple of majors in the past 5 years.

    The problem with people is that they look for a rationale as to why it hasn't occurred. People create narratives which give the illusion of an explanation when the actual reason is too complex to determine.

    Perhaps Rory does think differently during a major but I suspect all golfers do, even Tiger and Jack. I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff as it's used in place of actual causality and given it's obvious ambiguity it allows people to attribute a variety of issues to that "cause".

    In my opinion a more logical explanation of his failure to win majors in the past 5 years is likely that winning in golf is really hard and a sample of 20 tournaments is not that much. Els, Tiger and Jack all went through a similar gap in majors.
    Perhaps in many ways variance has not gone his way in majors while being more favourable to him in other events. He has overachieved in one while underachieving in another.

    That explanation is not the default of many because it leaves the question
    somewhat unanswered and open to interpretation while the alternative of simply attributing the lack of major wins to mentality gives the illusion of a concrete explanation.

    In all honesty perhaps it's a combo of the two plus a myriad of other factors but no matter what the cause, it's quite clear that it's not an easily attainable answer.

    you've thrown everything in the mix there.

    The key difference with Rory, he is and has been at his peak in this period of 5 years (outside and coming into majors).

    Not sure there are examples like that with people mentioned ?

    Whilst he is a far superior achiever, his patterning the last 5 years is more like a Westwood or Monty. Win all around and fail to deliver in majors.

    Of the people you mentioned, injury , marriage issues and imagine age with Jack were factors .

    I think you are clutching at straws if your suggesting mental factors have not played a part with Rory.

    I'll accept that there have been a few strange issues around Rory's health and perhaps there is more to this than we know.


  • Options
    #7295
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    you've thrown everything in the mix there.

    The key difference with Rory, he is and has been at his peak in this period of 5 years (outside and coming into majors).

    Not sure there are examples like that with people mentioned ?

    Whilst he is a far superior achiever, his patterning the last 5 years is more like a Westwood or Monty. Win all around and fail to deliver in majors.

    Of the people you mentioned, injury , marriage issues and imagine age with Jack were factors .

    I think you are clutching at straws if your suggesting mental factors have not played a part with Rory.

    I'll accept that there have been a few strange issues around Rory's health and perhaps there is more to this than we know.

    Obviously I've thrown everything into the mix, that's my point because everything is needed and a conclusion still isn't really attainable given it's complexity.

    I never said mentality isn't an issue?
    If you take the time to actually read through the post, I actually say "perhaps it's a combo of the two(mentality & variance) plus a myriad of other factors".
    My issue with people using mentality alone is that it's actually complex and I believe it's often used as a simple default reason when it is not that and given it contains enough ambiguity it allows people simply run with that reason alone.

    I take your points around physical factors but I'm not quite sure how much weight I'd be placing on martial problems because I don't think Rory has been given a bye in that regard.


  • Options
    #7296
    HighLine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭HighLine


    Thread idea .... if you can't get your point across in less than two posts... move on. No table tennis replies and flogging a dead horse. Save us having to skim over the nonsense.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7297
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Charleigh Inexpensive Electricity wrote: »
    Emotional? How can you possibly determine my emotions reading what I have written?
    I'll let you in on a secret, you can't but obviously that doesn't stop you jumping to conclusions.

    This is precisely the issue I was referring to, people looking for causality where none exists or they can't explain it so they make up something that makes sense to them.

    It's LOL stuff to suggest I'm emotional about McIlroy in any respect but you're the expert on mentality I suppose, you really do come out with some truly laughable stuff.

    Inflection.


  • Options
    #7298
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When is Rory playing next?


  • Options
    #7299
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,823 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    @ Mur28

    This is what you posted.

    "I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff".

    Yes , when I read that, I realised how miles off the mark you were.

    Your basically completely undermining what golf psychology has been saying for the last 30 years. Anyone who is anyone in golf has actually increased the emphasis
    on the mental side.

    Your then making comparison with the two players who probably had the strongest mental game ever . Tiger and Jack.

    Your speculating about how it could be a combination of issues, but his performance, his own words and actions completely illustrate how his mental game is an issue.

    To be honest, it just seems you are alone in completely underestimating the importance of the mental game.

    By the way the good news , I think (again), Rory has turned a corner and is on his way to a major soon.


  • Options
    #7300
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Maybe...just maybe Rory hasn't won more majors because other players had better rounds than he had in those tournaments.
    He's a great player no doubt but it's incredibly hard to win one major never mind multiple ones.
    You need a lot of luck, skill, talent and hope that others fade away if you hit the front in one.
    Sometimes that falls for somebody else.


  • Options
    #7301
    xgronkjabv6pcl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭xgronkjabv6pcl


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    @ Mur28

    This is what you posted.

    "I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff".

    Yes , when I read that, I realised how miles off the mark you were.

    Your basically completely undermining what golf psychology has been saying for the last 30 years. Anyone who is anyone in golf has actually increased the emphasis
    on the mental side.

    Your then making comparison with the two players who probably had the strongest mental game ever . Tiger and Jack.

    Your speculating about how it could be a combination of issues, but his performance, his own words and actions completely illustrate how his mental game is an issue.

    To be honest, it just seems you are alone in completely underestimating the importance of the mental game.

    By the way the good news , I think (again), Rory has turned a corner and is on his way to a major soon.

    You should try quoting my entire sentence as a first port of call, I'll help you out:

    I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff as it's used in place of actual causality and given it's obvious ambiguity it allows people to attribute a variety of issues to that "cause".

    Now once you quote the whole thing instead of what you think I said you might see a difference.

    Yes I think people place too much emphasis on mentality as a means of justification when players fail and McIlroy seems to get more flack than most in that regard.

    To clarify, just because I think people often view mentality as the cause of failure especially in McIlroy is in fact not the same as being dismissive of the mental aspect of the game, I'm surprised you have conflated the two.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7302
    LuckyGent88
    Registered Users Posts: 14,150 ✭✭✭✭LuckyGent88


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    When is Rory playing next?

    Genesis I’d say at Riviera. Same with Tiger. A course Rory has played well on in the past. Then play Mexico WGC before heading to Florida for bay hill and players championship. Matchplay then Augusta I’d imagine.


  • Options
    #7303
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Maybe...just maybe Rory hasn't won more majors because other players had better rounds than he had in those tournaments.
    He's a great player no doubt but it's incredibly hard to win one major never mind multiple ones.
    You need a lot of luck, skill, talent and hope that others fade away if you hit the front in one.
    Sometimes that falls for somebody else.

    Did they have better rounds because he threw in an over par round to take himself out of contention?


  • Options
    #7304
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Nicklaus finished in the Top 5 in 55 majors winning 18 - roughly a 33% SR and McIllroy has won 4 from 11 Top 5 finishes, a SR of roughly 36%.

    Woods won 15 from 33, a SR of 45% - nicely ahead of the two lads, but still failed to win more often than not.

    So Nicklaus and Woods are 'chokers' as well??

    Putting 'seems' in asteriks doesnt alter the fact that you are talking through your hat!
    Rory frequently gets his top 5s by coming from no where in Sunday, which is kinda the point being made...


  • Options
    #7305
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Rory frequently gets his top 5s by coming from no where in Sunday, which is kinda the point being made...
    Not in his last four. Which were also the last four he played in.

    Edit: Not in his last seven either. Should I go back further or will you just admit you're talking through an orifice not normally associated with speech?


  • Options
    #7306
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Rory frequently gets his top 5s by coming from no where in Sunday, which is kinda the point being made...

    Well if that's the point being made it's even more ridiculous than I was giving it credit for.

    You might need a new hobby lad this Rory bashing has you in a tizz!


  • Options
    #7307
    galwayllm
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭galwayllm


    When is Rory's next outing, I need a good laugh.


  • Options
    #7308
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    galwayllm wrote: »
    When is Rory's next outing, I need a good laugh.
    Sad post of the year contender and it's still only January. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #7309
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Rory frequently gets his top 5s by coming from no where in Sunday, which is kinda the point being made...

    That's just lazy analysis and the typical soundbites from people who haven't a clue.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Options
    #7310
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,823 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Charleigh Inexpensive Electricity wrote: »
    You should try quoting my entire sentence as a first port of call, I'll help you out:

    I think people place too weight on the mentality stuff as it's used in place of actual causality and given it's obvious ambiguity it allows people to attribute a variety of issues to that "cause".

    Now once you quote the whole thing instead of what you think I said you might see a difference.

    Yes I think people place too much emphasis on mentality as a means of justification when players fail and McIlroy seems to get more flack than most in that regard.

    To clarify, just because I think people often view mentality as the cause of failure especially in McIlroy is in fact not the same as being dismissive of the mental aspect of the game, I'm surprised you have conflated the two.

    your sentences are very hard to read to be honest.

    You think people use mentality in place of actual causality.

    But it is fairly clear in this case , it is the cause. That is why he gets justified flack.

    But your applying your thinking on this to an actual case where it is accurate.

    Could you tell us about these periods Jack and Tiger had a similar run.


  • Options
    #7311
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,123 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Not in his last four. Which were also the last four he played in.

    Edit: Not in his last seven either. Should I go back further or will you just admit you're talking through an orifice not normally associated with speech?

    Go back 1 more and then let's talk.
    Or perhaps include the U.S. Open, or the Memorial, or the PGA, or Wells Fargo or the Masters?

    Though maybe you are a big follower of the illustrious zozo tournament instead?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7312
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Did they have better rounds because he threw in an over par round to take himself out of contention?

    Doesn't every player who challenged and failed to win a major perhaps had a bad/indifferent round?
    Why is it so different that it's Rory who does it?


  • Options
    #7313
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Doesn't every player who challenged and failed to win a major perhaps had a bad/indifferent round?
    Why is it so different that it's Rory who does it?

    Consistency.


  • Options
    #7314
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Consistency.

    Really? He seems to be consistently near the top of the leaderboard a lot also. Consistency?


  • Options
    #7315
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Go back 1 more and then let's talk.
    Or perhaps include the U.S. Open, or the Memorial, or the PGA, or Wells Fargo or the Masters?

    Though maybe you are a big follower of the illustrious zozo tournament instead?
    "frequently"

    In fact it's none in the last nine. Including the Tour Championship, Canadian Open, two WGCs, the Players and the European Masters. But you picked out the Zozo because?

    Did you forgot that you were talking about top fives? I suppose when you make stuff up, it's hard to keep track.


  • Options
    #7316
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Really? He seems to be consistently near the top of the leaderboard a lot also. Consistency?

    Hard to argue with that, but he would have topped a lot more if it wasn’t for the chokes.


  • Options
    #7317
    abff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭abff


    Like a lot (maybe the majority?) of Irish sports fans, I tend to 'root' for (with apologies for the American expression) Irish sportspeople/teams any time they are competing against people/teams from other countries. So I will always want Rory to do well against non Irish opponents. If he's competing against Shane Lowry or Paul Dunne or (in particular) Padraig Harrington (my all time favourite), then I would tend to root for the other guy.

    So I wouldn't exactly describe myself as a fan of Rory, although I, in general, would like to see him do well. Which is why I find it so difficult to understand the level of antagonism and (often unfair) criticism that is frequently expressed against him on this website. Jaysus, give the guy a break!


  • Options
    #7318
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    abff wrote: »
    So I wouldn't exactly describe myself as a fan of Rory, although I, in general, would like to see him do well. Which is why I find it so difficult to understand the level of antagonism and (often unfair) criticism that is frequently expressed against him on this website. Jaysus, give the guy a break!
    There's an antipathy to people from NI in certain quarters in this country. I'm not from NI, but have many friends from there and have spent a lot of time there. It's quite obvious when you become aware of it. Some sort of warped nationalism or some such crap. Always dressed up as something else, but that's what it is imo.


  • Options
    #7319
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    "frequently"

    In fact it's none in the last nine. Including the Tour Championship, Canadian Open, two WGCs, the Players and the European Masters. But you picked out the Zozo because?

    Did you forgot that you were talking about top fives? I suppose when you make stuff up, it's hard to keep track.

    And it’s less that a year since this was written, I know, I know, lazy biased journalist with anecdotal opinion.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/golf/rory-mcilroy-has-played-in-the-final-pairing-nine-tournaments-in-the-past-13-months-and-has-failed-to-win-any-of-them-37898761.html


  • Options
    #7320
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    And it’s less that a year since this was written, I know, I know, lazy biased journalist with anecdotal opinion.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/golf/rory-mcilroy-has-played-in-the-final-pairing-nine-tournaments-in-the-past-13-months-and-has-failed-to-win-any-of-them-37898761.html
    Sorry, if you can't link directly, to whatever it is, I'm not following a google search link. I see it's the Indo, so that's a double black mark.

    And I replied to Greebo's post specifically dealing with what he specifically said. Nothing else.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7321
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,247 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    There's an antipathy to people from NI in certain quarters in this country. I'm not from NI, but have many friends from there and have spent a lot of time there. It's quite obvious when you become aware of it. Some sort of warped nationalism or some such crap. Always dressed up as something else, but that's what it is imo.

    Ah, the nationalist card, that explains it, anyone who isn’t a fan must be xenophobic.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement