Cork developments

namloc1980 wrote: »

The timescale for the rail network are laughable. The strategy says between now and 2026 the only development will be through running at Kent which is a new platform to the south of the station. That's it for the next 7 YEARS!

Increased frequency to 3 trains per hour and any new train station not until 2027-2031. And the crucial elements of 10 minute frequency to Cobh and Midleton, dual tracking Midleton and electrification not until 2032-2040. Safe to say I don't think many of these things will actually happen.

100% agreed. Events Centre has a better chance of seeing light of day!

Its very hard to believe anything with a projected start date so far away, especially in a regional city in Ireland. To my pessimistic view, its reads like a box ticking exercise that can now be forgotten about for another 10 years. 1 Billion Euro for a light rail system in somewhere thats not Dublin? You must be joking. Id be more excited if they came out and said dont mind yer light rail, but we will be pushing on with a dedicated BRT route (something like the Glider in Belfast) that can be brought to reality within 10 years.

There is no policy or engineering reason for not starting detailed design, planning and tendering for the luas, bus connects and 'CART' (if you will) projects in the next 2 months. The only constraint is money, which is scarce for a number of reasons. €3bn is being spent on gifting the world's first national fiber broadband network to one lucky yank for example, basically it's like winning every lottery in the world combined. An unknown sum is being paid to BAM (despite that company being notorious in the industry for blowing budgets and generally taking the p!ss) so that they can continue to not make any build progress at St James's. We're also spending about a €1bn on gifting our energy sovereignty to the French state. All these things add up you see.

Personally my interest in the whole LRT plans have dwindled to zero given the ridiculous time frames (2040??!!!). A lot can happen in 20 yrs, so many things can lead to it all being scrapped / postponed over and over aka the event centre that never was.

I'm more interested in the tall buildings planned for the city in particular the Custom House Tower which hopefully will get approved and completed relatively quickly ie: 3 - 4 yrs. Unless I'm completely wrong.

If there is to be an LRT i'll be an oul fella by then. :pac:

Corkbiiy wrote: »

we can deliver on a light rail just as fast as a BRT, both are technically very different, light rail is more economically sustainable, and cheaper in the long run. Obviously this all depends on the powers that be getting the finger out. The route proposed can be delivered in 3 years if the money was approved today, 1bn is probably not the correct figure, it'd be closer to 2-3bn. You can do a BRT for less but you'd inconvenience the populace all the same, and a BRT will never match the capacity of a LRT.

Brt can deliver as much capacity as a tram, and with more flexibility... Admittedly by the time you're at tram capacity, you're going to be at almost tram costs.. But it's the more gradual element that attracts me, add another piece improve the system...

I wouldn't take any notice to this cmats nonsense. Timeline is way too far out to take it seriously. We'll probably all have our own flying cars by then anyway.

Another thing to remember, we in Cork will have contributed at least €45-50 billion to the Exchequer by 2030 and they might give us 3 billion back. Lucky us.

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I wouldn't take any notice to this cmats nonsense. Timeline is way too far out to take it seriously. We'll probably all have our own flying cars by then anyway.

Another thing to remember, we in Cork will have contributed at least €45-50 billion to the Exchequer by 2030 and they might give us 3 billion back. Lucky us.

The vast majority of what goes to the exchequer is current spending. We spend a lot of money servicing the national debt. Ireland also has an extremely generous welfare state. Add to that we've adopted the most expensive and least effective model of social housing in the world (pay private land lords whatever they like to provide it and put the rest in hotels). We also have a bloated public wage bill, the bulk of which is absorbed by the HSE (a body that is designed to employ 'managers' and perhaps dish out some healthcare when possible). The political class, TDs, councillors etc. also are among the best paid on earth.

As a result capital spending is lower than low.

marno21 wrote: »

I would be interested in seeing transport capital investment in Cork as a percentage of Cork's portion of GDP. It would be interesting

Dublin would like this also, or even if we could just keep our own LPT, instead of distributing it elsewhere in the interests of 'fairness'

who_me wrote: »

Looking at the proposed light-rail route - as pie-in-the-sky as it currently is - I wonder if there's an argument to be made for one additional stop beyond Mahon Point, across the water, perhaps just before Harty's Quay?

Without this stop, the light rail system doesn't really do much for Douglas or anywhere beyond that, so it remains a massive traffic bottleneck for commuters from the South East. But if you could have one light rail stop South of the Douglas river, then you could bypass Douglas village entirely.

For a relatively small additional cost I think you'd see a huge uptake in the light rail usage.

That would be a good idea as it would also service Jacobs island and all the new high rise going in there. It would be worth making a submission to the public consultation.

who_me wrote: »

Looking at the proposed light-rail route - as pie-in-the-sky as it currently is - I wonder if there's an argument to be made for one additional stop beyond Mahon Point, across the water, perhaps just before Harty's Quay?

Without this stop, the light rail system doesn't really do much for Douglas or anywhere beyond that, so it remains a massive traffic bottleneck for commuters from the South East. But if you could have one light rail stop South of the Douglas river, then you could bypass Douglas village entirely.

For a relatively small additional cost I think you'd see a huge uptake in the light rail usage.

My understanding is that with the new bloomfield interchange and the motorway, and busconnects, those bottlenecks will be removed, you need a lot of track to get from mahon to douglas. Rochestown may be feasible.

cgcsb wrote: »

Douglas will be at the end of a dedicated bus corridor according to cmats. A future North-South luas(or metro) route will be on the cards after the first luas line is a roaring success, which it will be of course.

Fantastic, so Douglas (may) have a Luas after 2100. Anyone actually think these plans will be actually completed? I'm skeptical to say the least...

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Fantastic, so Douglas (may) have a Luas after 2100. Anyone actually think these plans will be actually completed? I'm skeptical to say the least...

There is no private money in these projects, all to be funded by the Government.
We all know how this part of the country does not get much in the way of Government spending.
I wonder what the position would be with The Event Centre if it was being built in Dublin, well and truly finished at this stage no doubt.
All I can see from this joke of a plan is more bus lanes and extra bus services.
The tunnel was first planned back in the 1970's, look how long it took for that to be built.
I have zero confidence in any of those major expenditure parts of that plan ever happening.
This is Cork and I as a long term resident know where we are in Dublins eyes

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Fantastic, so Douglas (may) have a Luas after 2100. Anyone actually think these plans will be actually completed? I'm skeptical to say the least...

Douglas is much more likely to get a BusConnects corridor (3-4 minute peak frequency) as set out in CMATS than the Luas ever seeing the light of day.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

But...they aspire for Cork to be below the CURRENT national average % of people cycling in urban areas ....by 2040

So they aspire, by 2040 to have:
Cars- 49%
Pedestrian- 21%
Public Transport- 25%
Bike- 4%

They aspire to roughly Dublin's current levels of public transport usage (22.5%).
They aspire to above Dublin's current levels of private car usage (44%)
They aspire to lower than current Irish urban cycling totals (4.4%)

It's the stuff dreams are made of.

Source: CSO
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6mtw/

It’s unfortunate, I agree that this is all which can be aspired too. But we’re coming from a low base. Dublin has significant commuter rail and two Luas lines. If cork can catch up with one tram line and a few stations that’s a good incremental improvement.