Seatwave Closing Down

johnpatrick81 · 13-08-2018 1:14pm

Wonderful news. Good fvcking riddance.

Delta2113 · 13-08-2018 1:15pm

"Keith English, Managing Director of Ticketmaster Ireland, said: "Closing Seatwave and creating a new ticket exchange has always been part of Ticketmaster's long-term plan."

I couldn't stop laughing when I read this.

The only reason this is happening is because off forthcoming leglislation.

Zardoz · 13-08-2018 1:21pm

Delta2113 wrote: »

"Keith English, Managing Director of Ticketmaster Ireland, said: "Closing Seatwave and creating a new ticket exchange has always been part of Ticketmaster's long-term plan."

I couldn't stop laughing when I read this.

The only reason this is happening is because off forthcoming leglislation.

No its not ,the decision was made months ago .
They are closing Seatwave across Europe and GetMeIn in the UK ,there is no legislation forthcoming there and Ireland is a tiny market .

irishgeo · 13-08-2018 1:25pm

Zardoz wrote: »

No its not ,the decision was made months ago .
They are closing Seatwave across Europe and GetMeIn in the UK ,there is no legislation forthcoming there and Ireland is a tiny market .

Because its bad publicity and maybe promotors were complaining about gigs not selling out because of this.

johnpatrick81 · 13-08-2018 1:26pm

Kettle316 wrote: »

This is fantastic news!

Ticketmaster have been robbing people blind with Seatwave for too long. Hopefully Viagogo & Stubhub follow suit.

This video is an interesting watch about how they operate for anyone who hasn't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlnL8drSdw

Any of the people somehow thinking that they were a legit company and not used to blatantly ticket gouge need to educate themselves and watch that documentary.

Zardoz · 13-08-2018 1:40pm

This is what Joe Cohen,the founder of Seatwave and former VP of Ticketmaster has to say on the matter

https://twitter.com/Cohen_Goes_HAM/status/1028956858005041153

cruhoortwunk · 13-08-2018 1:41pm

Seatwave was gone to the dogs anyway. I only had 3 sales on there in July, compared to 50 odd on Viagogo.
Their main competitive advantage was linking from sold out events on TM direct to seatwave. When they stopped that they went downhill rapidly.

wacotaco · 13-08-2018 1:56pm

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Seatwave was gone to the dogs anyway. I only had 3 sales on there in July, compared to 50 odd on Viagogo.
Their main competitive advantage was linking from sold out events on TM direct to seatwave. When they stopped that they went downhill rapidly.

Viagogo will probaly follow suit soon or forced to follow once legislation is introduced.

Wheety · 13-08-2018 1:58pm

happypants wrote: »

Great news. I've pretty much given up on going to concerts because of the ridiculous prices artists are charging now most are over €100 for **** seats. I'd rather go to a gig in Europe and make a weekend out of it, we are majorly ripped off compared to the likes of Amsterdam. I wonder will this push the prices up even more.

The big artists will still be over €100. You will find every concert will now have premium/platinum seats, which were just regular seats last year. €300-400.

If these don't sell out, they will just be released as regular tickets (€100+) closer to the time.

....... · 13-08-2018 2:24pm

ghostdancer wrote: »

so no.

and that article is pretty irrelevant, as we're talking about Irish tickets on Seatwave after selling out, not tickets eventually finding their way to multiple secondary sites in the UK.

the facts show that there is a miniscule amount of tickets for sold out gigs on Seatwave currently.

What facts? Ticketmasters facts? LOL.

Unless you can show an independent source there are no facts other than what has been provided already by others.

So far we've had some links to UK news articles and a documentary.

You continue to dispute these sources but have no provided any of your own - besides your memory (yet you would not accept my memory) and the current status of Seatwave (which is not what is under discussion, its the numbers on sale immediately after sell out that is the relevant figure).

So although you seem quite adamant, youve not given any evidence.

....... · 13-08-2018 2:25pm

Zardoz wrote: »

No its not ,the decision was made months ago .
They are closing Seatwave across Europe and GetMeIn in the UK ,there is no legislation forthcoming there and Ireland is a tiny market .

Its because the writing is on the wall.

ghostdancer · 13-08-2018 2:45pm

....... wrote: »

What facts? Ticketmasters facts? LOL.

Unless you can show an independent source there are no facts other than what has been provided already by others.

So far we've had some links to UK news articles and a documentary.

You continue to dispute these sources but have no provided any of your own - besides your memory (yet you would not accept my memory) and the current status of Seatwave (which is not what is under discussion, its the numbers on sale immediately after sell out that is the relevant figure).

So although you seem quite adamant, youve not given any evidence.

the facts are there on the seatwave website. you can see exactly how many tickets have sold for events that are listed, and for how much.

a documentary about Viagogo from several years ago and UK articles about secondary sites are irrelevant.

the evidence is how few tickets are on the site for sold out concerts, the most relevant being the one Zardoz posted, which went on sale last Friday, sold out last Friday, and only 14 tickets have been sold on Seatwave, out of a possible 1600. There are a further 9 still onsale.

you seem quite adamant, and you've not given any evidence.
feel free to provide some actual evidence or numbers for Irish gigs on Seatwave.

Former Former · 13-08-2018 2:51pm

Ticketmaster do not put tickets up on Seatwave themselves. This is a myth.

They sell tickets above face value on Ticketmaster Platinum and I've seen nothing that indicates any change there.

Exclamation Marc · 13-08-2018 2:51pm

To be honest if ten tickets are now sold on toutless or adverts for face value or less rather than seatwave, it's a victory for the fan, irrespective of size.

cruhoortwunk · 13-08-2018 2:55pm

Zardoz wrote: »

First Aid Kit sold out last Friday and there are 9 tickets on Seatwave .
They have sold 14 so far .
So thats 23 tickets out of 1600.

https://www.seatwave.ie/first-aid-kit-tickets/olympia-theatre-tickets/tuesday-23-october-2018/perf/1142815

I sold 19 so far on Viagogo, sw gone to shít

Suckit · 13-08-2018 3:18pm

It's ridiculous that TM/LN were able to get into such a position to begin with. Their monopoly is insane.

johnnyskeleton · 13-08-2018 4:56pm

Zardoz wrote: »

First Aid Kit sold out last Friday and there are 9 tickets on Seatwave .
They have sold 14 so far .
So thats 23 tickets out of 1600.

https://www.seatwave.ie/first-aid-kit-tickets/olympia-theatre-tickets/tuesday-23-october-2018/perf/1142815

€109 per ticket with a €19 booking fee! Crikey.

I think that the legislation around selling over the face value is a good idea, but I'm not sure how it will work in practice.

In reality, how many tickets are bought by touts and sold over the odds? It's usually only the big sold old gigs (e.g. U2s). I can't imagine that professional touts are the reason why First Aid Kit sold out, and outrageous as the seatwave prices for them are, I believe it is most likely a fan who bought the ticket and then figured that if they sold it for 3x the price they could then go to 3 other gigs instead. Not exactly a sound thing to do, but there is a logic to it.

So what is going to happen with this legislation....well, nothing much IMHO. Think of gigs like Radiohead where you had to have id. That sold out quickly and there was no major secondary market. Online touts buy tickets for gigs that are likely to easily sell out i.e. 20,000 people looking for 13,000 tickets. There is little to no profit for them in other tickets, and the risk is probably too great.

The risk is that now that they can't make their money this way, the ticketing companies will instead increase the first instance price for big gigs, and if it doesn't sell out, then they call always give promotional discounts at a later stage.

Ultimately this move is probably good, but I don't think it will make much difference. I think people need to be a bit more rational about how they spend gig money and if tickets are costing too much, just don't go.

Suckit · 13-08-2018 5:28pm

I read around christmas that the whole of Europe are going to clamp down on ticket sales. Something that has been 'in the pipeline' since as far back as 2012.
The article touched off concerts, but kept going back to football tickets and other sporting events. Whatever structure is in place has to be dismantled bit by bit and restructured.
I didn't put too much hope behind it at the time, just another article that said they will do something eventually.
I believe they may be starting to do something now. Presumably it will be different in each Country though, so I am not sure how it would work. I guess the main focus would be on the business itself.
I believe that this is why TM are closing down those services. They can see what is coming and maybe got a heads up or something similar to that, and made the move give the perception that they're doing it with the fans in mind. Bullsh*t.
Also, a huge part of it was probably the law that was introduced in the UK banning the use of bots to purchase tickets in bulk.

The merger with TM and LN should have never been allowed, or accepted over here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/01/arts/music/live-nation-ticketmaster.html
http://fohonline.com/articles/the-biz/clash-of-the-titans-aeg-presents-vs-live-nation/

I wonder if EU looked into the same type of case that happened in Canada although I doubt it.

Exclamation Marc · 13-08-2018 5:51pm

Ticketmaster objected to this proposed legislation last year so any notion that this is fan service or has been a long term plan for them is total horsesh!t.

Zardoz · 13-08-2018 6:18pm

Suckit wrote: »

I believe that this is why TM are closing down those services. They can see what is coming and maybe got a heads up or something similar to that, and made the move give the perception that they're doing it with the fans in mind. Bullsh*t.
Also, a huge part of it was probably the law that was introduced in the UK banning the use of bots to purchase tickets in bulk.

The simple reason they are closing them down is because that aren't making a profit ,that is the bottom line.
They haven't been profitable in over two years according to reports filed and their market share has been eroded by Viagogo.

Its a good publicity move by Ticketmaster ,the Seatwave stick can no longer be used to beat them when high profile events still sell out in minutes.

Suckit · 13-08-2018 7:19pm

I don't think TM give a toss what people use to complain about them. They are the frontrunner globally for events, and no other company comes close to competing with them globally, so they are always going to have people complaining about some of their practices. Saying that, there's no smoke without fire but because of who they are, you need to tiptoe around saying anything as fact.
Regardless, there are enough things to beat them with anyway, I don't think closing seatwave will make any difference on that side of things.

Any prohibition of reselling wouldn't really work, in fact it might create more problems, but I think the large scale buyers should be stopped by putting restrictions in place. TM have the power to do that, and haven't done it, so it looks like the Government might try.

rubadub · 14-08-2018 4:44pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

€109 per ticket with a €19 booking fee! Crikey.

scroll down and you would have seen more charges on top of that.

Former Former · 14-08-2018 9:11pm

Just so long as no one really thinks this is a victory over TM and their dastardly practices. It's nothing of the sort.

Larsso30 · 14-08-2018 9:31pm

....... wrote: »

I dont think anyone minds an event genuinely selling out in seconds.

Its when it sells out in seconds and 5 minutes later thousands of tickets appear on Seatwave at massively inflated prices that is the issue.

Presales. Often they are onsale before a general sale on resale sites.

Toast · 14-08-2018 11:09pm

Seems odd to me that there would be people upset about the loss of these sort of sites but I guess I have a bias.

These sites didn't manufacture tickets... they just took tickets out of the supply chain and made them available at a premium price. I've no interest in arguing how many, or how that was done... it was a non zero number. If these sites are removed those tickets either stay in the supply chain or get bought by legit users at the face value. The total amount of tickets has not changed. Middlemen no longer get a cut... some people who enjoy buying themselves into places over others will be inconvenienced... no real loss.

I've a great interest to see what the Ticketmaster Fan2Fan site will look like. It was our opinion that doing Fan2Fan with TM on board to cancel old tickets and move them to someone else was the only way to do it and police it and make sure there was no scamming etc.

It is really theirs not to mess up. They will easily destroy any and all resale sites if they do this properly because it will be the best for the consumer. If they play their cards right they could end up with a hugely trafficked site which has got to be worth something in advertising at the sort of scales they could do. Might make them more in the long run than whatever cuts they were getting on the other site.

Zardoz · 14-08-2018 11:37pm

Toast wrote: »

I've a great interest to see what the Ticketmaster Fan2Fan site will look like. It was our opinion that doing Fan2Fan with TM on board to cancel old tickets and move them to someone else was the only way to do it and police it and make sure there was no scamming etc.

It is really theirs not to mess up. They will easily destroy any and all resale sites if they do this properly because it will be the best for the consumer. If they play their cards right they could end up with a hugely trafficked site which has got to be worth something in advertising at the sort of scales they could do. Might make them more in the long run than whatever cuts they were getting on the other site.

I'd imagine it will just be the standard Ticketmaster site and they will list the resale tickets along with the standard tickets much like they do elsewhere in the world.

For example here is a Jay Z gig in the US.
https://www1.ticketmaster.com/jayz-and-beyonce-otr-ii-miami-florida-08-31-2018/event/0D005450F6F2D904?artistid=781009&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=3&tm_link=artist_msg-0_0D005450F6F2D904&f_PPL=true&ab=efeat5787v1

Primary sale tickets are in blue on the seatmap ,and resale are in red .
(Resale Tickets in Europe will be price capped unlike the US)

phunkadelic · 15-08-2018 9:43am

Expect to see lots more of this platinum sh1t:
https://www.ticketmaster.ie/elton-john-dublin-06-12-2019/event/180054458923166B?artistid=735394&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=1

TM's Seatwave were losing out to Viagogo in a big way, they are now just rejigging things so they have more control. They closed seatwave, but will allocate more tickets to platinum instead, which is just touting in a different way. The problem is that instead of middle man getting a cut it will be just TM the primary seller making a lot more money from it.
And absolutely no transparency about how much tickets they hold aside for platinum.
Also the new 'resale site' gets the 15% per sale, which will average a lot more than seatwave, as they control the market and volume will be big.

Suckit · 15-08-2018 5:59pm

That's ridiculous that they should even want a share in the resales. Just shows what greedy corporation it is that controls the market.

boyznoise · 15-08-2018 7:51pm

Public congratulating TM :ermm: on closing down 2 non profitable businesses, if they were profitable they would not be closing. TM is now a monster, tickets for everyone will be harder to get for FV, Platinum is the future, current prices for Platinum tickets make resale sites look like a bargain. TM will control the supply/demand and price. Basically a complete monopoly. Expect a larger percentage of tickets to be held back for Platinum meaning less available for the public, you will also see resale prices rise due to less tickets available for FV and the touts just pricing a little bit cheaper than Platinum. Also what system is in place to prevent touts buying the FV tickets that are put up by fans no longer going. The whole thing is joke, TM is the biggest tout now.

Toast · 15-08-2018 11:14pm

boyznoise wrote: »

TM is now a monster, tickets for everyone will be harder to get for FV, Platinum is the future, current prices for Platinum tickets make resale sites look like a bargain. TM will control the supply/demand and price. Basically a complete monopoly. Expect a larger percentage of tickets to be held back for Platinum meaning less available for the public, you will also see resale prices rise due to less tickets available for FV and the touts just pricing a little bit cheaper than Platinum. Also what system is in place to prevent touts buying the FV tickets that are put up by fans no longer going. The whole thing is joke, TM is the biggest tout now.

"The wolves kept the bears away.. sure they ate some kids but now we've bears... who'll eat more kids. If only we kept the wolves." uhuh.

Here's the thing... the removal of the wolves is not what brought the bears... the bears were coming all along and you would have bears and wolves to deal with simultaneously if someone hadn't done something about the wolves.

Platinum tickets already exist. Here's a thing with Platinum tickets... if you don't buy them.. they often just get re-released as regular tickets. If your new "platinum-pocalypse" occurs it just becomes a case of who blinks first. Boycott them. It's real simple because they are too goddamn expensive. TM are stuck then. It is lost revenue if they don't sell them at all. If they release them as FV on the day and every gig ends up with a rush of face value tickets on the night (ex platinum seats) guess what.... people will see less value in buying a platinum ticket. This is not a hard fight to win.

Touts could always buy off FV sites. It just isn't really worth the effort in the numbers of tickets you get out of doing it. Going through the whole meeting someone thing etc on scale is a lot of time for not that much reward. Also now with tout sites shutting down / soon to be illegal the selling becomes effort too.. and you've a lot more FV tickets in the system that were previously going to tout sites freed up etc. and wooo whats that? there's a big last minute surge of FV tickets from TM due to Platinum not selling.

This is what having this sort of legislation can do. It doesn't block every avenue... it just makes it more difficult for a tout to the point of why bother?

You've got some weird ultra cynical world view on this. Maybe I have a bit more hope because in the ten years I've been actively fighting this this is starting to look a lot more like progress than anything else I've seen yet.

Seatwave Closing Down

Comments