A Slow Journey to Faster Times

Murph_D wrote: »

You're analytical by nature P - I'll ask the same as I asked C. Did you change anything apart from the training being more consistent (despite the buffer weeks which I agree can be a bit of a setback depending on what you do during the off week)? Diet? Drink? Your work change no doubt helped too - do you see that as a major or minor factor? Anything else?

Buffer weeks definitely set me back. I dropped more than 30 seconds over 5k in the space of a week after Christmas having taken a few days off. Also really struggled in Trim the week after Raheny (when that race had felt ok), having done virtually nothing in between. My paces & HR were improving week to week in training, but then the same paces became difficult with the HR climbing after a prolonged break between sessions. It's alluded to in my original analysis. Two consecutive MP runs a few weeks apart, with very different statistics:

yaboya1 wrote: »

Thursday 26th January
1.5m w/u @ 8:00p/m average (130bpm avg)
7m @ 6:34p/m average (155bpm avg)
1.5m c/d @ 7:34p/m average (140bpm)

Bit of a snivel today and blowing a gale outside, so was wary not to push it too much with Raheny coming up on Sunday. So I didn't and pleasantly surprised myself with how easy I found this. A doddle! In far from ideal conditions too. With more than 12 weeks to go until London and some improvement in fitness, I think it's fairly realistic that MP might quicken up a tad. Looking good for a pb in Raheny. My first in almost 2 years!

Thursday 16th February
2m w/u @ 7:38p/m average (140bpm avg)
8m @ 6:33p/m average (164bpm avg)
2m c/d @ 7:51p/m average (150bpm)

I knew this wouldn't be easy, but considering I found an almost identical session a doddle three weeks ago, I wasn't exactly expecting it to give me too many problems. Pace was at it should be, but the HR was 9bpm higher than last time. A real struggle, but delighted to have it out of the way on target. Spotted overpronator and Sean Hehir within 20 yards of each other on the Furze Road towards the end of this. Must be training together now.

What had been a "doddle" became a real struggle. Without the time off or the races (which Hansons don't recommend), I wonder what difference it would have made? I don't regret it though. Don't we learn from making these mistakes? It's going to be more satisfying crossing the line one day below the target time I set myself having fcuked it up so many times before. If I did it right the first time, the level of satisfaction wouldn't be as great

My diet was ok. Not brilliant, but not bad. Probably better than it was in 2014 to tell the truth, so I don't think that's an issue. I wouldn't enjoy my life if I couldn't have the odd night out to a fancy restaurant, the occasional few beers and a take away from time to time. It's not the life of an elite athlete, but I'm far from that. If I took away those little pleasures, I'd limit my enjoyment of actual real life and I don't think my running would actually benefit that much, if at all. It would also become a real chore if it meant I had to forego the little things I treat myself to from time to time.

The change in work circumstances was a massive factor. Apart from returning to much more standard hours, I also had a much more structured roster which meant I could plan sessions & races weeks, or even months in advance. In the recent past, I've not found out my working hours until the very last minute, which doesn't sit well with someone like me who likes to make plans a long time in advance.


Nothing else really changed. Basically my working hours allowed me to follow a structured plan for the first time in two years. If I had done exactly as that plan said, I may have run a bit faster on the day, but we'll never know that for sure.

Going forward, I intend to do what I'm told (by the plan) and make much more of an effort with core workouts as that's one area I did neglect having been strignent about it in 2014.

Itziger wrote: »

Just what you need right now: a post from Itziger FFS

I love getting your feedback. You remind me of myself (if a little older ).

p.s. I have every intention of giving Valencia a go at some stage

Update

Not much in the way of training lately, but I have run a few races. Outside of that, it's just been jogging in and out of work. Now that I find myself with a few minutes to write about them, I better do just that before I forget what happened .


Ever since I started running, people have always asked me how fast I could run a mile. I never had an answer for them because I didn't know, having never tried that distance flat out on its own. So I decided after London I was going to find out (for now). The graded meets in Drogheda had piqued my interest last year with the reasonable looking entry fee of €5 for all events on the night and the inclusiveness of allowing anyone to run (i.e. not restricted to club members). I never felt in the shape to do myself justice last year, but thought whatever I could run at the moment would be a fair representation. So I decided I'd give it a go. With this in mind and no speed work of any description done for a long time, I thought a parkrun the previous weekend would provide a good tune-up opportunity.


Cabinteely parkrun (13th May)

I wasn't expecting a great 5k time and didn't want to completely flog myself before the mile, so I went to Cabinteely parkun where I'd been informed that you could forget about running a fast time. A good solid workout was all I wanted and I should get that there without any temptation to go too hard. FBOT was rd'ing too, so I'd know a few faces there.
Turned up in good time and got an unplanned warm-up in while delivering some instructions to a marshal which meant climbing the famous hill four times rather than three!
Set off in the front five or six down the hill and had worked my way into third by the time we passed the finish with two full laps to go. I kept the effort constant as planned, which took me by the two in front of me one by one as they slowed slightly during the first complete loop of the park. At the bottom of the hill I was out on my own and although I didn't look behind, I felt myself going further and further ahead as we continued. I stuck to my plan and saw it out at the same effort in 18:49. Five days for the legs to get over those hills :P


DDAC Graded Meet (18th May)

Arrived in Drogheda train station around 6:40. The 2.5k journey to the stadium could serve as a good warm up. Little did I know the stadium was situated a long, long way above the Boyne. A much higher average HR than ideal on that warm up!
When I got there, I handed over my fiver and signed up for the three running events (Mile, 200m & 5k). Shot putt was also on, but clashed with 200m/5k otherwise I may have given it a go. I entered the sub 5:30 mile (with ambitions of going sub 5), the sub 20 5k, which would serve as my warm down after the mile and the 200m, which I had no idea what grade to enter. I guessed at a 6x second 400m, so the woman taking the entries put me down for either sub 32/34, don't know which.

Mile

Mile was up first. There were four races in total. Slowest first. Three heroes won those races when they clearly shouldn't have been in them (7:30+ won in 5:58). Runners were quite straggled in those. My race was different. From the gun, the whole pack seemed to move in unison. 77 second first lap, grand. I tried to overtake a couple on the second lap, but I'd need to go wide and could get caught outside on the bend. It would take too much effort with the guts of 1000m to go. Through halfway in 2:34. Another 77 second lap. Pace noticeably upped in lap 3. Through the line in 3:47. 73 seconds for that one. Was going to have to improve another second to break the five minute barrier. Surged around the first two bends but just couldn't sustain that pace and dropped back to 77 second pace to go through the line with 5:04 on the clock.

Official time: 5:04:67

Collapsed on the grass, knowing I'd only about 10 minutes to recover for the 200m

200m

Slowest heats first again here. They had said you could be moved because of restricted numbers/lanes compared to the longer races. That's obviously what they did with me, as I was in a seven runner race with no other men. My legs were still aching from the mile. I told myself just blast off as fast as you can, so by the time you realise you're hurting you'll already be in the straight with the finish in sight. So that's what I did. Never has 100m felt so long though. Thought my legs were going to give way underneath me. Won the race by 7 seconds

Official time: 30:83

5000m

Legs were really fcuked by the time this started, so was going to give it a miss, but my train wasn't for 90 minutes and I'd nothing better to do. Shuffled around in 19:45. It's pretty grim doing 5k on the track. Can't even imagine what the 10000m is like.

Dunboyne 5 Mile (30th May)

This was the one I was expecting a pb from. Bar the marathon, I considered this my weakest pb (29:51). With a 5:04 mile & 17:46 5k under my belt in previous 12 days and a full week to get over Bob Heffernan, I was going into this pretty confident I'd be beating that time. I wasn't shy about telling anyone who asked what I expected either. I may live on the Northside, but I don't possess the same sandbagging characteristics as most of the natives .

Plan was to line up near the front, go out hard and hang on. I thought sub 29 might be on, but didn't say that to anyone.

3,2,1, go. Got a great start and for once nobody to zig zag around. Already up to what I felt was the right effort. Glanced at the watch about half a mile in and it read 5:40. Thought that might be a bit fast, but fcuk it only one way to find out. My Garmin is measuring everything short lately, meaning the pace is actually quicker than what it says. I passed the 1m pole in about 5:35. I knew it was a hot pace, but I felt ok. Go with it. Looking at the watch passing mile 2 was 11:20ish. Think I went through 5k as quick or quicker than last week. Might regret this!

Before that though, I felt some people on my shoulder. I suspected it was DD gunning for revenge after last week, but when I looked to my side it was AMK. A few times between miles 2 & 3, him and a group that had gathered tried to pass me. I kept resisting. Mini surges to keep in front. Then I had a couple of goes at catching up with the group 30/40 yards in front. That may have been what broke me. Before we hit three miles, AMK and the group eased past me and I couldn't go with them.

From here on in it was about surviving. The pace started to drift up to and above 6:00, but I knew I'd run so hard early that I just had to keep grinding it out and a pb was a cert. So I dug in as best I could and struggled home trying not to be too demoralised as a few more passed me on the run back into the track. Delighted to see 29:12 as I passed the clock and went in under the gantry.

Official time: 29:13

Perfect evening for it, great spread afterwards, very enjoyable warm down (with the winner & some other top runners) and great chat with some fellow boardsies. Some really good performances all round.
No regrets. First proper pb in 25 months and a lesson. You learn from your mistakes and all that. Clonee 10k likely to be next, where I will also pb (current 37:07)

Itziger wrote: »

Jaysus, not bad man. Some decent running there especially considering the training was mostly run mutes.

Must be ok if you say so :P

Chivito550 wrote: »

I've news for ya. The home straight in a 200m is generally 84m, not 100m (though it can vary). So that was the longest 84m of your life.

Good banter that, running a 200m, especially so soon after a mile. Good work giving it a go.

But I think I started to hurt on the bend (probably about 16m before I hit the straight IIRC...)

Yeah, I found the whole thing very enjoyable. Hoping to get a 100m, 400m, 800m & 3000m in too at some stage, but it might be a while now with holidays etc.

The Build-Up

The below quote is from my own analysis of my London Marathon run last year:

“I’m likely to pace the DCM again in October, but I won’t be racing one before Autumn 2018 at the earliest. I’ve put myself under pressure to run all the big ones while I was able and had the qualifying times to do so, but now that I’ve done that I feel I can relax a bit and play the next one by ear.”

Even back then, I knew what a hectic winter/spring I had ahead of me. That’s why I posted the line that’s bolded above. Life circumstances were going to prevent me doing many miles in late 2017/early 2018, so any thoughts of a raced marathon before that were fanciful. Even the idea of just completing the 26.2m in the Spring of 2018 would be optimistic. Having thought long and hard about it, I decided that Valencia in December 2018 was a good target for my next raced marathon. That gave me eight months to build up mileage and intensity from when I hoped to get back running in late March. I thought the Cork Marathon in early June would be a good fit timing wise for a nice little easy long run, with no pressure on time and to get some endurance back. The fact that I’d be in no shape to race it and the weather was also likely to be unfavourable would ensure I wouldn’t do anything silly, like aim for a fast time. I wouldn’t be capable of running anywhere near my best anyway, given what I’ve written above so there’d be no temptation. So I signed up. And then forgot about it until late March.

I ran zero miles in January. That’s right. Zero. February wasn’t a huge improvement on that and anything I did run was at very easy pace. After returning jetlagged from a trip abroad on the first day of Cheltenham in mid-March, I decided any sort of serious training would have to wait until I was back in the habit of running at all. So I ran some easy miles for the rest of the month, with one 6x800m interval session, where I struggled to hit 6:10min/mile pace if I remember correctly. I weighed myself on St Patrick’s Day. I was two stone heavier than my ideal race weight. The Cork Marathon was 11 weeks away. I hadn’t run more than 12 miles since September 2017. I was very unfit and very overweight. I wasn’t looking good to make the start line on Patrick Street at that stage.

The goal at that stage was just to get my body ready to complete the marathon distance. So I devised my own personal (PD ) plan to do just that. I made my intentions known to my fellow DNS Harriers. All seemed to agree my approach was fairly sensible.
I’d race a parkrun every Saturday in April, do a midweek long run and compliment both with easy miles of varying distance on the other days of the week. I also wanted to get some quality long runs in, so five of them incorporating MP miles and progressing each time would also be fit in. It was a tight schedule that would require some cramming to allow for a taper, but I thought I could get through it and make it work. My MP would be based off my time in the first parkrun, which I felt should be achievable given how unfit I was then and how much fitter I’d be by race day. Anyway, I could always adjust the MP down if required as Cork wasn’t a target race and I wasn’t going to kill myself trying to run a fast time off just two months of any sort of quality. It just wasn’t possible.

I ran 18:56 at the first parkrun. McMillan predicted a marathon time of around 3:03 off that, so I set my target for MP miles at 7:00. That was the 7th April. I wanted to do my last long run with MP miles three weeks out from race day (13th May). I got that (20 w/ 15@MP) and the others (12 w/6@MP, 14 w/8@MP, 16w/10@MP, 18w/12@MP) done on target and before my own self-inflicted deadline. My parkruns were all within 30 seconds of each other and I also fit in standard long runs aside from the MP stuff of 16m (3), 17m (1) & 20m (2). A final blowout in the Bob Heffernan 12 days out from race day would give me an idea of what shape I was in. I ran 17:44. Was happy with that.
Although the PD plan should probably come with a health warning, it had actually put me in an excellent position to do exactly what I’d originally planned to do. That was to jog around the Cork Marathon in a respectable time. However, the competitive side of me won over and I announced to the Harriers I was going for sub 3. It was a terrible decision. I’ll explain why below the race report, although it should be blatantly obvious already.


The Race

I arrived at the start line in great form. Feeling good and ready to rock. Seemed like favourable running weather for the first Sunday in June, especially given it was 28 degrees the previous weekend. The relaxed start and low numbers ensured no issues lining up near the front and we got away bang on 8:30. I hung about 20-30 yards back from the 3 hour pacer. Didn’t want the hassle of weaving or avoiding stepping on heels. Got a few early shout outs from the DNS crew as we did some small loops in the centre of the city before we made the long run along the river towards the Jack Lynch tunnel. I witnessed a lot of corner cutting ahead of me in this early twisting part of the course. Don’t understand it myself. Sometimes it appears to take more effort to do that than running the actual course and I doubt it saved any of them much ground. Then the wannabe javelin throwers made themselves known, lobbing bottles as far as they could into hedges, ditches and over fences. I don’t know what that’s about. Still about 30 yards back at this stage, it looked like the pacer was discouraging this sort of carry on, but I couldn’t hear what was being said. Anyway, I was moving ok, but the effort felt very slightly more difficult than it should have been. Although I was very conscious of this, I continued in the hope that I’d suddenly feel a lot better and be able to pick it up if required. For a brief minute or two after I popped my first gel, I eased down to within five yards of the pace group and by 10k I thought maybe my decision to go with this pace had been the correct one. However after the climb to Mahon Point and the descent back down, I had dropped back again but still wasn’t too far behind by the time I passed Murph_D in the opposite direction at around 11 miles. At that point I thought I might catch and pass him, but as I made the U-turn I could see him appear to be pull further away from the 3 hour group while I wasn’t gaining on them at all. Bit of a headwind along here and a few twists and turns. Suddenly the 3 hour group had pulled even further ahead of me. By 12m they had more than doubled their advantage and stretched that further again going over the steep pedestrian bridge just before halfway. Although the tracker may have still had me close to being on target for sub 3 going through the halfway mark at 1:30:xx, I was more than 100 yards behind them at that stage and knew my goose was cooked. Looking up the long straight ahead knowing I’d the guts of another 13m to go was not a comforting thought.

I was putting in the same effort, but people were starting to pass me which is always a tell-tale sign that you’re slowing. The next 2-3 miles weren’t that bad but I was still decelerating. Each split confirmed my suspicions. I didn’t know if I could hold the current effort for the rest of the race, never mind pick it up. Murph_D & MrsMc gave me a shout out at the relay changeover point around 16m, but I had started to really hurt by then. By the time I got out to the link road and up the Everest style slip at Turner’s Cross and 17m, I was on my own. The marathon runners behind me had also started to struggle and the half was only getting started 4m behind me. I trudged up and down the hills around Turners Cross and beyond. I remember very little of the next few miles. I do remember being confused when Sergio Ciubanu shot by me at around 19m. It took me about five minutes to realise that he was running the half. My mind was mush. I couldn’t figure out how he’d been behind me. He took 400m out of me in the space of half a mile. That’s how slowly I was moving, although he was flying in fairness. I overtook a guy who was struggling worse than me shortly after that. I muttered something resembling encouragement to him. I was in bits, but if I was passing him at my pace he must have felt a whole lot worse. Plenty of enthusiastic locals out on this residential part of the route, cheering, clapping and spraying the runners with hoses if desired. Lots of little turns and ups and downs as I continued on in pain. Some woman was out at her front door screaming expletives at about 20m. “I own this fcuking house, fcuk off the lot of you etc……” I was too out of it to take much notice, but I think the other spectators found her amusing. Ferris B was waiting to offer some encouragement around the next corner. He did his best to motivate me, but all I can remember is saying “I’m done, I’m done”. I couldn’t muster any other words or any more effort. I started looking at what time had elapsed on the watch and how long it would take me to get to the finish if I walked. But every time I thought of that, I thought no matter how slow I’m running, it’s still faster than walking and the sooner I get to the finish, the sooner I can stop. So I continued to trudge along. It felt like walking pace, but each mile split continued to tick by under nine minutes so it was a bit quicker than it felt. After I scaled the final hill and hit the very welcome downhill at 22m, the 3:15 pacers appeared behind me. Top motivation going on as they passed me. I couldn’t go with them, but I’ve no doubt they got a few home with their encouragement. Few more windy little roads, then onto the Carrigrohane Straight. I was staying in the Kingsley and the 24m marker was outside the hotel, so I knew I had about 2k+ of boring straight road ahead before that point. There’s a few long stretches like this in Cork and they’re pretty soul destroying when you’re struggling. Eventually made it down past the hotel, further down the road and took the left under the inflatable arch at 25m. A look at my watch confirmed 8min/mile pace from here would get me in under 3:20. Then as I went over the pedestrian bridge at the Mardyke, some guy appeared out of the bushes with a relay number on. He announced to me and his dad (who was just behind me) that we needed to pick up the pace to get under 3:30. I knew he was wrong, but I hadn’t got the energy left to say anything. The father believed him and the two of them took off 20 yards in front of me. I was running below 8:00p pace myself now without realising it. My adrenalin had kicked in knowing I had less than a mile to the finish. Few more little twists and turns before going under the gantry in 3:18:30. A lot better than I thought it’d be at 16m.

Official Time: 3:18:26 (18 minute positive split) Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!
Garmin trace: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2748195158


Verdict/Analysis

I’ll never learn!
I’ve learnt a few things about the marathon over the years. However, sometimes I choose to ignore the obvious to my own detriment. Maybe if I put them down here again, I can look back in the future to ensure I don’t make the same mistakes again…….again :rolleyes:

1. The marathon does not have a comparable shorter race

I ran 17:44 in Johnstownbridge two weeks ago. According to the McMillan calculator, that equates to a 2:52 marathon. I’ve never been a huge believer in those calculators, but I’m now firmly of the opinion that when it comes to predicting marathon times, there is no comparable shorter race. Not the 5k, not th 10m, not even the Half. There’s far too much distance between any of them to give a reliable estimate. I know dublin runner has been saying this for years and I totally agree with him. You can gauge what you might expect to run, try to train to that level and have a go, but there is no guarantee that you can run a marathon at x pace just because you can run a 5k, 5m or even HM at x pace. Those race calculators when they are predicting marathon times mean precisely nothing.
What they should read is 5k: 17:44, Mar: Err or #REF

2. You cannot bluff the marathon

You’re playing the long game. If you put in the hard miles for months and months and months, you might get what you deserve at the end of it, if you’re lucky. However, you most definitely won’t overachieve if you haven’t put the work in. Prepare to be severely punished if you attempt to. I know this, but have still been guilty of it on more than one occasion, Sunday being the most recent. Failing to obey No. 3 is probably the reason I’ve failed No. 2.

3. Be honest with yourself

I ran 20m with 15m @ 6:51 pace three weeks ago. That day I knew it was too hard for me to maintain in Cork and said as much at the time. I couldn’t have run another mile at that pace that day, yet I needed to run 11 more of them on Sunday. If you’d asked me that day to nominate a target that I couldn’t change, there’s not a hope I’d have gone for sub 3. But then I looked fondly back at the nice even splits 3 weeks later and decided maybe I could do it. “I’ll be grand after the taper and I ran 17:44 in a 5k which predicts a 2:52 marathon.”
I’m also still about 8-10lbs heavier than I’d like to be at the start line of a marathon. The longer the race, the more effect every pound of extra weight has on your finishing time. So the marathon is the race that’s most affected in my case.

4. Train at current fitness level, not goal fitness level
I think I’ve been pretty good at this one lately. I based my training times off actual current race times and never felt like I was trying to run too fast. However, based on what I’ve said above using predicted marathon paces based off a 5k time is likely to be inaccurate, so maybe training at the correct effort level is the way forward.


I’m happy enough with Sunday’s run. An 18 minute positive split is a really painful experience, but I feel like I’ve learnt from it and it was never a goal race anyway. I was just stupid enough to try for an unrealistic time based off the actual training I’d done. The funny thing about this, Boston and New York is that I ‘raced’ them all, yet if I’d jogged them as I should have I’d probably have run faster in each one.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Great to see you back around these parts P. Fair play on Cork man. I think blow up probably helped you. If you did hit the sub 3 you might have got complacent, it will keep you honest for the winter

Thanks Luke.
I completely agree with you (on a separate note, what's with an argumentative fcuker like me agreeing with everyone?? :pac:).
It's like it almost would have been too easy. Sunday taught me that I'll need to work to get back there and although I've had the "I'm never ever doing this again" post-marathon feeling in the past, on Sunday I had a "I need to right this wrong" feeling while I struggled through the second half. I still feel like that, but am aware that can't happen without a solid build up and no short cuts.