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DCM 2017 Mentored Novices Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭Wubble Wubble


    Week 9

    So with just 10 weeks from now until our date with destiny, we're approaching the half way mark in the plans, and what for many of us is a significant milestone along the way, the Frank Duffy 10 Mile. Aside from being part of the Race Series, it will give you an(other) opportunity to practice race strategy and preparation.

    In general, I wouldn't worry too much about being tired at the end of LSRs. To quote an old ad, "Nobody said it was going to be easy". We've covered huge amounts of ground, more than most of us have ever done before, and it's only natural that our bodies will take time to adapt to these changes.

    Take a minute to think back to where you were in terms of your running before the plans commenced. Still think you can't go the rest of the way? Of course you can! Keep the reports coming in, and the Strava lurkers are still more than welcome to join us here ;)

    Especially in a race week, sleeping, eating and drinking are going to be vital. Also, try and get to the Phoenix Park early if you can. Contrary to what you may believe, there's a lot more parking in and around it than you might think.

    Similar to what I wrote about the Irish Runner 5 Mile, relax, be confident, and keep it nice and controlled at the start, especially as this race has a little kick in it towards the finish that will catch you out big time if you haven't managed it properly. Unfortunately, I won't be running it myself, although I might be passing along Chesterfield beforehand as part of my LSR.

    Course guide follows at the end of this piece. To those of you who raced the Rock 'N' Roll HM and are entered in this one, please please please DO NOT race it. AMK outlined a number of options for sessions a few pages back. Most runners far more experienced than you or I wouldn't try such a thing. Eyes on the prize :)

    Similarly, those of you entered in both the FD10 and the Race Series HM should, at the very least, seriously consider racing one and doing the other as a session.

    Racing both flat out is doable, as I discovered last year, but it left me with an injury issue which caused major problems from the HM onwards. Yes, I PB'd in the half and missed my 10 mile PB by a few seconds. But was it the best overall strategy in terms of preparing for a marathon? "Probably" not. So like I say, if you want to leave yourself in the best possible shape for DCM, choose one.

    Schedules for next week as follows. "With FD10" here, means racing it.

    HHN1 with FD10: Rest + 3M easy + 6M easy + rest + rest + FD10 + rest
    HHN1 without FD10: 3M easy + 6M easy + 4M easy + 14M LSR + rest

    Boards with FD10: (4M with 5 x strides) + 5M easy + (rest/cross/3M rec) + 2M easy + FD10 + 2M rec
    Boards without FD10: 4M easy + 7M easy + 4M easy + 17M LSR + 2M rec

    Best of luck!

    Frank Duffy 10 Mile 2017 Course Guide

    The route is exactly the same as last year. The dreary Conyngham Road section that some of you might remember from before is gone, and now we run the Glen Road in both directions. It could be a tricky one to get the pacing right.

    Mile 1
    The start is around the same point as we started the 5 Mile this year and in the four (at least) previous. Don't be distracted by the usual hares, and take your time until you find your rhythm and correct pace. There's a slight rise at the very beginning, but a little dip before we swing left onto Ordnance Survey Road. There's usually a slight breeze to contend with here, but it's quite flat and shouldn't cause you any difficulty.

    Mile 2
    We go straight through the crossroads after passing the Ordnance Survey. The road swings to the left and then the fun starts with a downhill mile that gets steeper as we descend towards the Chapelizod Gate. So many race efforts will basically be banjaxed in this section, so resist the temptation to go too fast. Remember, there's still another 8 miles to go after you reach the bottom, including running this road in reverse on the way back!

    Mile 3
    For many of you, this will be your first test of the day, as we swing away from Chapelizod Gate. The initial section is the hardest, but then the climb is much less severe as we turn right and head for the S-bends and Military Hill. You may have to give yourself a little push or two towards the top of the S-bends, but at this stage you should still be in good shape, with another fast downhill to follow immediately after you reach the top. You'll see the Magazine Fort on your left as you descend the Military Hill; you'll remember having to go up it in the 5 Mile. Again, easy on the quads, as the steepest part of this descent is at the bottom, just before Islandbridge Gate.

    Mile 4
    We go straight through the crossroads here; the Khyber will be on your left, but we're heading for Wellington Road, and a short but sharp ascent to kick things off. From there it's fairly draggy as we pass the Wellington Monument before a brief turn left onto Chesterfield Avenue. Very soon, we're turning again, right this time, onto another slight rise along Lord's Walk, which takes us round the back of the azoo.

    Mile 5
    This is a harder one than it looks. There's a little dip before we leave the zoo and turn left onto the North Road. It may look like nothing if you're driving, but especially if you're starting to feel a bit of discomfort, it can feel really tough. It's slow and draggy, and not very exciting, but try and keep your rhythm and your form and you should still be looking good at halfway (roughly around Cabra Gate).

    Mile 6
    Another slow drag I'm afraid. I never like racing in this part of the Park, as we always have to go left at the start of the triangle beside the Hole In The Wall Pub. There's a water station here as well. Mind the 45 degree turn as you head back towards the North Road. You'll pass Ashtown Castle Visitor Centre just before the next mile marker.

    Mile 7
    Some welcome respite as we pass Ashtown Gate and head downhill towards the small roundabout near the Castleknock Gate. However, when we ran the loop on Saturday, this is where the wind was at its strongest in very open territory. Back left onto Chesterfield Avenue and downhill this time, as we pass through where we started just before the 7 mile marker.

    Mile 8
    We continue downhill, straight through the Phoenix (Eagle) roundabout. Hopefully you will still have plenty of power in the legs and can use it to your advantage here. Just as you can see the actual Áras An Uachtarán on your left, we take a sharp right and head towards the Papal Cross, swinging left onto yet more downhill on the Acres Road. Again, it's very exposed and can be very windy.

    Mile 9
    Towards the bottom of Acres Road, as we pass the entrance to St Mary's Hospital, is where the descent is at its steepest. There's a tricky little chicane to negotiate before we go around the back of the Cheshire Home. Remember, this time we turn right along the path we cover in the 5 mile; we DO NOT go right down to Chapelizod Gate. The start of the Glen Road may seem daunting at first, but it's not actually that steep, and if you've got your pacing right, you'll be passing people for fun now. Believe me, it'll feel good!

    Mile 10
    The last climb gradually levels off as we go through the twisty section in the middle and head back towards the crossroads we went through at Mile 1. This time, we go right onto the Furze Road, the home straight. If we're lucky, we may have a bit of a breeze behind us. According to the graphic, the finish will be about 700 metres from the crossroads, but from my own experience this isn't always 100% accurate. Regardless, you will have a good look at the finish line several hundred metres before you reach it. You've done all the hard work, and there's only a bit left, so if you have it in the legs, bring it home! Well done! If you actually read through all of this, the race itself will be no problem to you. Fingers crossed for PBs galore on Saturday!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭clickerquicklic


    Thanks Wubble , for some reason I absolutely hate running in Pheonix Park , just reading what it's going to be like is horrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Thanks WW. I'm not doing FD10 but doing a 10m in the West next Saturday. Planning to do it as a session rather than race it. At the moment I'm thinking 2m w/u + 2m c/d to bring it to 14m. And for the race itself maybe 8m at pmp. Does this sound like too much/too little?

    16m lsr done today. Delighted with it. The pace was very slightly slower than my usual lsr pace but that's ok. I woke up with a sore throat and that bunged up feeling so was pleased to get it done at all. It was my longest run to date, only by 300m but still it's a new record :)

    Hope everyone else doing their lsr today is getting on well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    19 miles done , average of 9'29 per minute. Later inadvertently jogged another mile home after my tea and scone, planned to walk but the rain was very heavy. So that's the first of 4 or 5 'very long runs' done :) Taking last sunday off completely was very beneficial :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭brownbinman


    Week 9

    To those of you who raced the Rock 'N' Roll HM and are entered in this one, please please please DO NOT race it. AMK outlined a number of options for sessions a few pages back. Most runners far more experienced than you or I wouldn't try such a thing. Eyes on the prize :)

    Wubble, apologies I'm a bit confused. I did the RnR 1/2 and was planning on doing the FD10 as a step back week, should this be avoided?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    Next Friday will do a 5K race and a shorter run next Sunday maybe 12 or 14 miles, with some at marathon pace :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Wubble, apologies I'm a bit confused. I did the RnR 1/2 and was planning on doing the FD10 as a step back week, should this be avoided?

    No harm in running it as a session or as an lsr but I think what ww means is not to race both flat out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    ariana` wrote: »
    Thanks WW. I'm not doing FD10 but doing a 10m in the West next Saturday .

    Is there a special boards handshake or anything, so that we recognise each other?

    Anyone else doing the Wild Atlantic Way 10 miler?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Spirogyra wrote: »
    Next Friday will do a 5K race and a shorter run next Sunday maybe 12 or 14 miles, with some at marathon pace :)
    Are you going to do the 5k flat out? I'm itching to do a 5k but think it'll have to wait now til after as looking at the calendar and keeping the main event in mind I don't have a weekend to spare!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Damo 2k9


    14m LSR done yesterday @ 8:49 min/mile average, 2:05 got. I love long runs and this one wasn't bad at all. Out the normal way into the park and then ran into town and so on.

    Watch died at about mile 9 or so, kept the pace around the 9 minute mark without using the phone to keep looking at the pace, I just have to slow down another minute and I think I'll be grand.

    The left knee is back giving bother, the last 4 miles were tough and today in work it's even worse, really really sore walking around, don't know what I'm going to do about it.

    Fuelling during long runs is going great, using high 5 iso gels (berry plus) and they're actually really nice. I tried the blokk?? sweets yesterday and they were lovely too, there great to get rid of that hunger feeling when you know your not actually hungry, stomach playing mind games with me yesterday!

    Looking forward to the step back week, hopefully sort this knee out throughout it :(


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,356 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    muddypaws wrote: »
    Is there a special boards handshake or anything, so that we recognise each other?

    'Are you from the internet?', usually works. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭brownbinman


    ariana` wrote: »
    No harm in running it as a session or as an lsr but I think what ww means is not to race both flat out.

    Ah lovely many thanks, was worried there. no chance of me running flat out anyway, slow and steady is key!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭ariana`


    muddypaws wrote: »
    Is there a special boards handshake or anything, so that we recognise each other?

    Anyone else doing the Wild Atlantic Way 10 miler?

    Lol, it'd be lovely to meet, I'll tell you later in the week what I'm going to be wearing. Still getting through holiday washing so no clue what will be clean :)

    Is it just me or is the title very off putting? It sounds like we're going to be blown away!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Spirogyra


    ariana` wrote: »
    Are you going to do the 5k flat out? I'm itching to do a 5k but think it'll have to wait now til after as looking at the calendar and keeping the main event in mind I don't have a weekend to spare!

    I think I will or at 85% .... I've not had a race for 2 months and it will be useful to see 'where I'm at'....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,854 ✭✭✭deisedude


    This was the first week the training really got to me and was wrecked but it ended on a real high.

    Monday - warm up 1.2 miles. Track. 3x400's with 200m recovery in between. 2 mile cool down.
    Tuesday - 5.5 Miles at 8 min pace. This was a serious struggle.
    Wednesday - strength and conditioning workout at home
    Thursday - 6.6 miles in the woods
    Friday - 4 miles easy and 1.2 miles of .2 hard and .2 easy
    Saturday - rest
    Sunday - Clonmel Half. Was hoping for 1:40 but surpassed my wildest expectations with 1:37:32. Held on to 1:40 paces for first 2-3 miles but felt a little claustrophobic so started running ahead and felt good so kept going that little bit quicker.
    At the half way mark I took a Generation Ucan homemade gel and energy levels felt consisent the whole race, this was in addition to drinking a Ucan and water mix 30 mins before the race. Only been using it for fuelling long runs lately but I think it's brilliant. My stomach is too sensitive for normal gels and this is a great alternative


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    ariana` wrote: »
    Lol, it'd be lovely to meet, I'll tell you later in the week what I'm going to be wearing. Still getting through holiday washing so no clue what will be clean :)

    Is it just me or is the title very off putting? It sounds like we're going to be blown away!!

    Hehehe, I think the medal has a fish on it, so there may be water involved. I haven't looked at the route but think part of it might be where I did my LSR yesterday. As long as Gerty has left us by the weekend, we should be fine. I usually tell people to look out for the husky, but am getting used to running dogless and need to come up with a new description - middle aged woman with bright red hair, and bright red face after a mile or two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭positron


    If there's one thing I have learned in last 12 months of jogging (C25k to today) is that to never underestimate middle aged women. :D

    There was a sweet little middle-aged woman with her dog at one of the parkruns I visited, and I confidently decided to start in front of her at the start line. 20 mins later I am gasping for air and she overtakes me looking as fresh as she started, her dog even gave me that look. I give chase at around 4k mark and she changed gears and took off like Ussain Bolt and finished good 2 minutes ahead of me. Respect!!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 16,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭quickbeam


    Any tips on attaching your number to yourself? I had a safety pin in each of the four corners for the Fingal 10K but I still found it distracting, and prone to a bit of flapping. As the Phoenix Park will probably be even windier than Swords, I reckon it will be even worse for the FD10. Does it even need to be displayed? If it's folded or roled up in the belt will the chips still work? Though, even if the chips do still work, I presume it's against the rules as it's needed for ID purposes in case of emergencies. So, any more experienced runners got some nifty hacks to sort this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    positron wrote: »
    If there's one thing I have learned in last 12 months of jogging (C25k to today) is that to never underestimate middle aged women. :D

    There was a sweet little middle-aged woman with her dog at one of the parkruns I visited, and I confidently decided to start in front of her at the start line. 20 mins later I am gasping for air and she overtakes me looking as fresh as she started, her dog even gave me that look. I give chase at around 4k mark and she changed gears and took off like Ussain Bolt and finished good 2 minutes ahead of me. Respect!!

    Ooh which park run was that? I wonder if it was Joan, we're hoping she's going to win European gold in October.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    So had no breakfast (plan for day will be no breakfast)..

    I think this is a bad plan.
    quickbeam wrote: »
    Any tips on attaching your number to yourself? I had a safety pin in each of the four corners for the Fingal 10K but I still found it distracting, and prone to a bit of flapping.

    You need to display your number at all times. maybe 8 pins if its distracting you too much.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    ariana` wrote: »
    Thanks WW. I'm not doing FD10 but doing a 10m in the West next Saturday. Planning to do it as a session rather than race it. At the moment I'm thinking 2m w/u + 2m c/d to bring it to 14m. And for the race itself maybe 8m at pmp. Does this sound like too much/too little?

    16m lsr done today. Delighted with it. The pace was very slightly slower than my usual lsr pace but that's ok. I woke up with a sore throat and that bunged up feeling so was pleased to get it done at all. It was my longest run to date, only by 300m but still it's a new record :)

    Hope everyone else doing their lsr today is getting on well.

    The 10m session sounds grand - best of luck with it.
    Well done on the 16m given the week you had.

    muddypaws wrote: »
    14 mile LSR this morning, I had my van so did park run then kept on running. It was tough, I really can't see me running the whole marathon, there will be some walking involved I think. Although hopefully it won't be as warm in October, and maybe if I stick to the plan that will change.

    I haven't been feeling that great the last week, just couldn't quench my thirst for a couple of days, have been drinking lots but not getting the benefit. Sweated buckets today, ran my hand over my face and wondered how I had got muddy until I realised it was salt, so bought some diorylate on the way home, don't know if it's better or worse than a sports drink but thought I'd give it a go. I had chocolate milk, a banana and Lidl cheese twist straight after the run so hopefully covered all the bases.

    By DCM you will have had a lot more runs of longer distance and you will have had a taper. You'll also have the crowds to keep you going.

    Diorylyte is great for replacing salts etc - try and have more carbs too after the run - you have to add about 1400-1600 calories to your daily average after a 14 mile run. Protein is important, but carbs are equally important.
    3-4 times more carbs than protein.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭clickerquicklic


    I think this is a bad plan.

    I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
    I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

    If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭harr


    If i can ask a quick question for a friend who is running her first marathon...currently up to 18 miles on the LSR this week and I think it was 15 last week..
    She eats a couple of hours before the runs as she can't manage running on empty.
    Anyway over the last 2-3 weeks she has been totally wrecked for a couple of days after lsr and by time she is starting to feel ok she has run mid week runs ...she is getting major stomach cramps right after the runs and they continue the full day...
    she takes a zero tab after running.
    Anyone have similar problems?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭kerrylad1


    I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
    I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

    If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.
    Auldmanking is right.Apart from the Xmas morning fry up,this is probably the most important breakfast you could eat..Do not skip it,come race day.Best of luck with the training.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    14 miles today, missed last 2 long runs for various reasons so was good to go out and achieve something again. Longest run I've ever done, legs caned a bit but enjoyed it immensely. Looking forward to the 10m next week, will never have had a race with this much training behind me before so interested to see how I go


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭scotindublin


    Could be an option;

    http://www.therunhub.ie/Accessories-Magnet-numbers-130/

    I have never tried them though....I will be keeping my fingers crossed that you all get a better day than last year for the FD10.....It still pains me to say this "the race last year was my introduction to runners nipple"
    quickbeam wrote: »
    Any tips on attaching your number to yourself? I had a safety pin in each of the four corners for the Fingal 10K but I still found it distracting, and prone to a bit of flapping. As the Phoenix Park will probably be even windier than Swords, I reckon it will be even worse for the FD10. Does it even need to be displayed? If it's folded or roled up in the belt will the chips still work? Though, even if the chips do still work, I presume it's against the rules as it's needed for ID purposes in case of emergencies. So, any more experienced runners got some nifty hacks to sort this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭RolandDeschain


    Week 7 completed.

    Felt a lot better than last week. I am finding that I'm eating loads at the moment and my sweet tooth has gone into overdrive. Ah sure I'm burning it off anyways.

    Monday: gym

    Tuesday: 5 mile tempo run

    Wednesday: gym session

    Thursday: boards session. Really happy with this run. Paced it well and kept a quick pace (for me anyways) and finished strong.

    Friday: 5m easy run

    Saturday: 16m LSR. 9.30 pace. Not sure if I'm running this too quick but felt ok. Hard to imagine doing another 10 miles on top of this though!

    Sunday: I meant to do a recovery run but ended up going for pre game drinks with some friends from home. Ended up out to an ungodly hour when some people on the Strava group where getting ready to go for their run.

    FD 10 Mile this week. Can't wait.


  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭Omeceron


    Week 8.

    Day | Run | Pace
    Mon | Rest|
    Tue | 4 Miles Easy| 10:19
    Wed | Rest|
    Thu | 1WU 4PMP 1CD| 10:16
    Fri | Rest |
    Sat | 16 Miles | 10:41
    Sun | 2 Miles Recovery| 10:40

    I am going on holidays next Monday and weather and roads are not ideal for running. I will have access to a gym so I will be able to keep up with some runs. Best intentions are to do the 19 and 20 Mile LSRs but that might not be realistic. With that in mind what should I do for the Frank Duffy 10 miler?

    In order of preference:
    A. Race
    B. 9 Miles before and run as LSR
    C. A session?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    I am not fond of it either , but really struggle running after eating. Normally would need to leave 4/5 hours after eating. With marathon starting at 9am I just don't see any way to get food into me early enough that morning.
    I was thinking of just eating lots the day before and probably a big bowl of porridge just before I go to bed about 11/12.

    If its really advisable to eat breakfast I'm going to have to start practising fairly soon with different food groups.

    What are you eating?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭BrownEyes79


    Training has been a bit all over the place the last couple of weeks because I was on holidays! It's nice to hear some others are in a similar boat!!
    The first week I only got 7 miles done and a 2.5 hr hike, i was also coming down with a chesty cough (which is still lingering) so didn't manage to get the 14 mile LSR done either. Even though I didn't do much my legs were really tired!

    This week was a little better, there was a trendmill in the hotel so Tuesday I did 5 miles & also an hour of kayaking.
    Wednesday I did 6 miles, was absolutely wrecked doing it as my cold still hadn't completely cleared.
    Thursday 4 hour hike in the Kerry mountains, amazing scenery!
    My calves were still a little tight this morning but didn't want to miss another LSR so did 16 miles @ 11.11 pace, much slower than usual but glad I got it done.


    Thanks to AMK for the post about fighting the demons towards the end of an lsr a few pages back. I struggled with the 16 miles in week 13, kept doubting myself. Today I kept thinking of your post and it really helped me out :)


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