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Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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    #92
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    I agree that there's a lot missing from this story, but that doesn't mean I am automatically suspicious of it. Here:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-believe-paedophile-dj-eamon-captain-cooke-may-have-killed-schoolboy-philip-cairns-34790504.html

    Two lines jump out at me here

    "Gardai are believed to be treating the woman's story as credible." Believed is a weaselly word, ofc, but if the Gardai are treating it as credible (you know, those people with all the background information and who spoke with the people involved), then I see no reason to assume the woman is not credible, and;

    "A person came forward in May. It took an awful lot of courage for this person to come forward," a source said.
    "They nominated Cooke as a suspect. This case was still under active investigation when Cooke died.

    "It is still under active investigation now."

    Okay, more than a line, but it's context. It took an awful lot of courage for this person to come forward, s/he said. They didn't have to say that. It sounds like there is indeed a reason. I am entirely jumping to thoughts that I have no justification for, but the man had eleven children and was convicted of assaulting (on 42 accounts) four young girls. He was a violent and evil man, but also apparently a charming personality and a glib talker. And don't we all know really that the word of children about bad adults hurting them sexually weren't taken seriously? If the word of a child - or even the word of someone speaking from childhood experience - isn't likely to be taken seriously, along with the potential threat of serious reprisal, perhaps traumatic shock along with it... no, I can see many potential reasons why it might have taken so long. Relatively few of them are malign.

    Can ye not find another scapegoat for the pitchforks at least until more information is known?


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    #93
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I well remember when Philip Cairns disappeared. I was just started 6th class in primary school at the time - Philip was about a year older than me. I really hope his family will finally get closure on this harrowing case. I also hope that perhaps the Gardai can locate where his remains are buried.

    And it makes me think of all those missing women - Annie McCarrick, Jo Jo Dollard and Deirdre Jacob to name but a few.


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    #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    I well remember when Philip Cairns disappeared. I was just started 6th class in primary school at the time - Philip was about a year older than me. I really hope his family will finally get closure on this harrowing case. I also hope that perhaps the Gardai can locate where his remains are buried.

    And it makes me think of all those missing women - Annie McCarrick, Jo Jo Dollard and Deirdre Jacob to name but a few.


    If you put the pin of the compass at Blessington and drew a circle within 20 miles of each side i think it would throw up interesting results in terms of the radius of where those girls went missing. As it is i think a certain individual may have committed the perfect murders and god knows what else. Sadly, it will never be proven


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    #95
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    This case did leave the country mystified. It was also sort of a local story where I live as there were cousins of Philip Cairns who were in the same year as myself, and we were friends, but it was not something you would bring up or discuss, just something you knew.
    I hope his remains are found so he gets the burial he deserves, and some sort of closure for the family.
    It has been a mystery for around three decades, it is a long time for his family to not know where Philip is buried.


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    #96
    PeterTheEighth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,930 ✭✭✭PeterTheEighth


    As with most people on the thread, I find it amazing that the woman could sit on this story for so long. I find the simplistic details of the story a bit troublesome though.
    She said however that when they got to the studios in Inchicore, a row broke out while she was in another room, and that Cooke struck the child with an implement.

    She said she went into the room and saw the 13-year-old boy bleeding and unconscious on the floor.

    She told gardaí that she then fainted and when she woke up, she was in a car being driven by Cooke.

    It just sounds a bit simplistic. No depth of detail, seemingly just a few direct facts that the person telling the story wants you to know. It just sounds like something that has been made up.


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    #97
    Sundew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Sundew


    Some of the comments on this thread regarding the potential wittness who has come forward are disgraceful.
    It should be noted that Cooke received a suspended sentence for an arson attack on one of his complainants.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dj-put-away-for-10-years-over-abuse-of-girls-in-home-26273302.html
    The law in this country often doesn't protect vulnerable people resulting in people being afraid to come forward and it sounds to me like this lady possibly was a young victim of Cookes who has already been through the courts!

    I hope for Philip Cairns family that there will be answers and some form of closure in this case.

    N.B: I just realised a previous poster mentioned this. Was I the middle of writing this when other post was posted. Multi-tasking and as a result am slow at finishing posts


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    #98
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    PeterTheEighth wrote: »

    It just sounds a bit simplistic. No depth of detail, seemingly just a few direct facts that the person telling the story wants you to know. It just sounds like something that has been made up.

    The level of detail being reported in the press is not necessarily the level of detail that the police have.


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    #99
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    PeterTheEighth wrote: »
    As with most people on the thread, I find it amazing that the woman could sit on this story for so long. I find the simplistic details of the story a bit troublesome though.



    It just sounds a bit simplistic. No depth of detail, seemingly just a few direct facts that the person telling the story wants you to know. It just sounds like something that has been made up.


    I don't think the media would publish the full details of what she said, even if they knew what it was, at this stage, so just give a high level summary.


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    #100
    Summer wind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭Summer wind


    I've always found Phillip's case to be so sad and shocking. I was a year younger than him when he disappeared and we all spoke about it at school a lot. I cannot understand how anybody could sit on this information for 30 long years. I really hope Phillip's body can be found and be given a proper burial with his dad.


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    #101
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Very sad reading this ,
    Made my communion a few months after Philip disappeared it was probably the first time i can remember that as kids we were reminded bad people did bad things to kids for no reason,



    Hopefully his remains can be located and he and his family can finally put him to rest where he belongs
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #102
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    It just sounds like a load of bollocks and I'm speaking as someone who grew up a street away from Philip and was a couple of years behind him in school. I've no doubt one or more people from the immediate locality were involved at some level.


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    #103
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    It's actually very revealing of the lack of accountability in the country when you read the excuses offered here for 30 years of silence. There are "complex" reasons for it of course which mean that nothing should be done. We mustn't expect or demand more from people. 30 years of loss and grief to be shrugged off. People will be encouraged to come forward if there are no penalties for not doing so runs the logic here. Its very easy to see why we have gangland gone wild at the moment.


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    #104
    Two Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Two Tone


    Absolutely chilling case - I was very small but I still remember it quite clearly. It brought to life all the "Don't take sweets from or get into a car with an adult you don't know" stuff, which I didn't understand before this terrifying case.
    Xyzforsure wrote: »
    She should be charged with for withholding information

    Funny feeling she was involved!
    My feeling - much more so than she could have been involved - is that she could have been a victim of the bastard. It was nearly 30 years ago - even if she is middle-aged now, she would only have been a teenager then.
    All this "She is as bad as him" stuff - eh, no... the worst person in this case is the abuser, and there is far more vitriol towards her on this thread than towards the abuser, which is at best bizarre.

    All this "She could have", "I would have" - people don't have a clue what she or they could have/would have done. I think she SHOULD have come forward long long before she did in 2011, but I don't know why she did not, and I still hold the abuser to be the primary source of blame. I totally understand condemnation of her, but what sort of strange twist of logic would cause a person to focus equally, or even more, on this woman, than on the abuser.


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    #105
    Two Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Two Tone


    I should add: if he was the one responsible, and if she is telling the truth.

    I remember in about 1994/5 it making the news that someone went to the guards to say they think they might have seen Philip crossing a hazardous stretch of water at the time (with high tide due to heavy rain) and falling in. Obviously turned out to be a red herring.


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    #106
    Cool Cool
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Cool Cool


    Thank Lord! There is nothing worse than your loved ones going 'Missing'. Anything but.
    Hopefully his family can finally find some solacement.


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    #107
    notsoyoungwan
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭notsoyoungwan


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Strange time she goes to the Gardaí when Cooke was away with the fairies on medication and could have owned up to anything.

    Ehh, no. For the Gardai to interview him and take what he said with any credibility ,(which they are clearly doing) given that he was in a hospice and on potentially mind-altering drugs, they would have liaised with his medical team and had an assessment of capacity/fitness to be interviewed/make a statement done prior to seeing him.

    In my job I've done such assessments for the gardai many times, when much lesser crimes are suspected. There's no way they'd have proceeded if this guy was delerious from morphine etc.

    And the fact that he confirmed some aspects of her statement yet continued to withhold info on the burial site, despite multiple opportunities to reveal it, shows that he was still in control and still calculating etc, rather than 'away with the fairies'


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    #108
    aphex™
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭aphex™


    The studio was in Inchicore so he's probably buried in the Phoenix park.


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    #109
    Keane2baMused
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Keane2baMused


    arayess wrote: »
    You are responsible for your own behaviour using excuses like fear etc...is weaseling out of it.
    Her behaviour cost a family 30 years of pain and a man to die not knowing what happened his son.
    no excuse supercedes that. none.

    I could possibly ata stretch buy that pre-2007 ....but cooke was locked up then aged 70 for 10 years.



    quite right

    Is that your professional opinion as a psychiatrist/doctor/counsellor?


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    #110
    grind gremlin
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭grind gremlin


    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/He's+a+sick,+evil+man..+hopefully+he+will+die+inside+jail%3B+VICTIM'S...-a098688556 This is an old link but might be of interest......


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    #111
    jelutong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭jelutong


    From todays Irish Independent.
    "A woman came forward in May. It took an awful lot of courage for this person to come forward,"a source said. "They nominated Cooke as a suspect.This case was still under active when Cooke died."
    A bit late in the day if you ask me.


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    #112
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Regardless if she was a child when it happened, as an adult she should have come forward. So sorry for that little boy and his family.


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    #113
    SPDUB
    Registered Users Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    What puzzles me about the reporting of this story
    even though they pleaded with him to tell them where the remains of Philip were buried, he never told them.

    With this bit of the story they appeared to saying he killed him so why do they not say that in the preceding paragraph
    He gave yes/no answers and, to a limited extent, confirmed aspects of the statement made to gardaí by the woman who came forward.

    I could understand the reluctance because of fear of libel if he was alive but he's dead so that shouldn't be a consideration .


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    #114
    brooke 2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,472 ✭✭✭brooke 2


    grind gremlin wrote: »
    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/He's+a+sick,+evil+man..+hopefully+he+will+die+inside+jail%3B+VICTIM'S...-a098688556 This is an old link but might be of interest......

    Sounds like a very nasty piece of work. Not hard to believe that people might have reason to be
    terrified of him.


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    #115
    Kamili
    Registered Users Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    In this article in the Indo published in 2002 it reads that Philip was killed to protect his paedophile's identity.

    Published in 2002... Someone as far back as then knew something. I have my doubts about them not knowing much before she came forward, and who knows maybe she did come forward long before May or 2011..

    http://m.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/philip-cairns-was-killed-to-protect-his-sex-abuser-26245411.html
    Sixteen years since Philip's disappearance baffled both relatives and gardai, a re-examination of the case shows he was probably murdered by a paedophile. It is believed others were involved, and that Philip was killed to cover the tracks of the men after making a complaint about abuse. The man he told, it is believed, became an accomplice in his death. Philip's father confirms his belief that a paedophile was responsible for his son's death. What worries him most, he says, is the fate Philip suffered before his death.

    the most shocking part of this is that...
    This newspaper has spoken to witnesses and seen evidence that an admission of involvement was made by an individual in 1996, 10 years after the boy's disappearance.

    The individual confessed to playing a part in Philip's death and described in detail what had happened.

    I suspect there's a lot that is not being released in this case, and that the truth was known in 1996 but due to lack of evidence nothing could be proven. Maybe this woman is only corroborating this story. There's a mention of this lack of evidence in the wiki page for Philip.

    I feel so sorry for Philip's family, and just someday hope that the truth comes to light and they can get some closure.


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    #116
    LynnGrace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭LynnGrace


    Poor little fellow, (if this story is true), I cannot help picturing him innocently getting into the car, believing that he was just going to visit a radio station. :(


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    #117
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Two Tone wrote: »
    I totally understand condemnation of her, but what sort of strange twist of logic would cause a person to focus equally, or even more, on this woman, than on the abuser.

    To use your own way of thinking, what sort of twisted logic would cause a person to focus on the abuser in a thread about the person who withheld information for 30 years. Start a thread on the abuser if you want.


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    #118
    anonydubmous
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭anonydubmous


    He was just a dirty manipulative bastard


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    #119
    Kamili
    Registered Users Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    It begs the question, If the indo article is true, three people were involved, and so Cooke maybe didn't know where Philip was buried, so couldn't tell.
    However rumour always had it he was buried in the convent pond on Grange Road, which has since been dug up and developed over. They removed the extra dirt and debris from the site and disposed of it when they were developing it. So there's no way of telling now if that was or still is Philip's final resting place. Gardaí instead searched ponds in the phoenix park instead of the convent. If this is true why didn't the search the ponds at the convent?'

    Its all conjecture anyway.. I hope with time the truth will come out.


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    #120
    Sound Bite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Sound Bite


    While it seems almost impossible to understand why this woman didn't come word sooner, I'm sure she had her reasons- most likely fear, love or a misguided sense of loyalty.

    It's better to speak out late than never at all and I'm sure that there are many others in this country that are protecting other murders in similar ways- false alibi/with holding information.

    While it's late, I'd hope it will give his family some comfort and closure. There are many other families around the country who need others to come gorward to renight them with their loves one. People who harbour secrets need to be encouraged to come forward not vilified when they eventually do - it takes courage especially when they have remained silent so long.


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    #121
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    To use your own way of thinking, what sort of twisted logic would cause a person to focus on the abuser in a thread about the person who withheld information for 30 years. Start a thread on the abuser if you want.

    Actually, it's a thread about whether the case is finally confirmed as a murder, precipitated by information about someone coming forward in May.

    So you can go either way on that, although I'm rather with the line of thought that thinks it's weird to call down the fires of hell on an unknown witness while generally ignoring the paedophilic presumed murderer.


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