Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

Cornerback1 · 25-05-2016 09:08PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

Well that is hugely dissapointing, have to wonder how a team made up of players who at minor level won All Irelands or narrowly missed qualifying for the final can only score 12 points in an under 21 match.

Hard to know. Just going by Twitter not much between the 2 teams. W'meath got the goal at the start of the 2nd half and we never caught them.

Not sure how many/if we created any goal chances apart from penalty but you'd think we'd get 12pts in the first half at least regardless of opposition.

Dan Chipowski · 25-05-2016 09:08PM

Appalling stuff, but why appoint someone with zero managerial experience?

The people being appointed at underage leave a lot to be desired.

Realt Dearg Sec · 25-05-2016 09:09PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

oh, eh sorry for being pleased that Westmeath beat you for the first time in 120 fkn years...

:rolleyes:

I'm referring to the coming on to the thread to laugh about it.

Topcat32 · 25-05-2016 09:10PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

This is obviously a disaster for us, but huge congratulations to Westemeath all the same, must be some slog being a fan of hurling in a place like that, and a night like tonight must be just unbelievable for them.

That aside: "without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"

No matter how good an outfit this Westmeath side might be, this should be ringing huge alarm bells. What happened? And how has it come to this?

I don't think the sky has fallen on our heads just yet, Wexford and Dublin have had similar defeats to this in recent years in the last few years

That been said its worrying that what looked like a talented team would struggle so badly.

Realt Dearg Sec · 25-05-2016 09:11PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

Wexford and Dublin

That's not very reassuring!

Topcat32 · 25-05-2016 09:11PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

oh, eh sorry for being pleased that Westmeath beat you for the first time in 120 fkn years...

:rolleyes:

Oh, eh and what you said about Eddie Brennan on the Dublin thread.

Bonniedog · 25-05-2016 09:11PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I'm referring to the coming on to the thread to laugh about it.

You think that's only reason people might be looking at Cats hurling threads do you?

Good luck in Junior M or whatever you are...

Charlie69 · 25-05-2016 09:14PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

You think that's only reason people might be looking at Cats hurling threads do you?

Good luck in Junior M or whatever you are...

What an immature post.

Realt Dearg Sec · 25-05-2016 09:14PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

You think that's only reason people might be looking at Cats hurling threads do you?

Good luck in Junior M or whatever you are...

I don't mind what reason people would look at the thread, I just thought coming on and laughing about it was pretty mean-spirited.

Bit disappointed in your other comment to be honest. I'll leave it at that.

randd1 · 25-05-2016 09:18PM

We're in bother at U21 lads. While U21 is fickle at the best of times, and while we shouldn't ignore Westmeath's improvement at underage either, the fact that we just don't produce at this level is a worry.

In saying that, I would be a million times more worried if our minor results mirrored U21. If you look at our minor record, 2011 and 2012 apart, we've had good solid teams for the best part of a decade and we've tended to narrowly lose out to very good teams when we didn't win.

All the same, something needs to happen big time to stop the rot. We're producing good players with and fine all-round skill set, but at underage there seems to be a lacking of creativity and work ethic creeping into our teams, as if a Kilkenny jersey means you've got your AI's sorted rather than earning it. That lack of creativity and work ethic has arguably cost us a few more minor titles, it's almost as if we're over-coaching young lads.

That's 8 years without an AI at U21, and only 2 Leinsters in that time to boot.

Worrying times ahead, the County Board need to act fast, need to ascertain the problem at U21 (and minor to an extent), and get it sorted immediately.

The worst thing I can say about our recent U21 record; we're starting to resemble Cork.

dobbs2210 · 25-05-2016 09:22PM

Dan Chipowski wrote: »

Appalling stuff, but why appoint someone with zero managerial experience?

The people being appointed at underage leave a lot to be desired.

A certain county board official is appointing his own yes men. Pat Hoban relegated Dunnamaggin and a few months later was appointed kilkenny minor manager.

I'm not at all surprised the U21s were beaten. I saw them play Clare in a challenge game and Kilkenny were absolutely awful. Saw them play Tipperary and thought they looked very poor and I know Cork outplayed them in a game also and Kilkenny were poor against them.

Standard of senior club hurling in Kilkenny has been in decline massively in past 4/5 years. I would attend alot of club games and most of the club games are of a shocking standard.

The development squads system is very poor in kilkenny and needs a complete overhaul.

The one thing I'd like to know is what has Kilkenny county board done to improve, enhance and develop CLUB hurling in Kilkenny?

kkclubhurling · 25-05-2016 09:23PM

Shocked by that, this was a really strong U21 panel this year, sure there were one or two big calls made on the team selection but thats the nature of competition on the panel, compared to the last two years these boys had serious potential. Anyone who follows Fitzgibbon will have seen that Westmeath team had a good sprinkling of lads playing with DCU, DIT, Maynooth and St.Pats and were always going to be good but this Kilkenny team had serious forwards and experienced backs at the grade.

Westmeath were always likely to adopt a sweeper which as far as I know (didn't see the game) they did, whats more annoying is the inability to break down a system which in all fairness is hardly revolutionary, if a forward doesn't have the guile and the whereabouts to neutralise the sweeper (at any age) its up to the management to show them how. Judging by the score this didn't happen, I don't know if some of the fight and hardiness that personified the last 15 years is slipping, i'm sure people will rush to say that this generation was raised with a silver spoon and they couldn't hack a tricky away game etc etc but I don't think thats true, I mean go watch Liam Blanch or Sean Morrissey with the Bridge or John Walsh with the 'Vat and they are hardy lads, as our the likes of Deegan, Evan Cody and Conor Delaney.

This really was a freak result but fair play to Westmeath , massive achievement for them and even though its disappointing here it is good for hurling. Maybe we could borrow their selector Mickey Walsh back of them for a couple of years.

kkclubhurling · 25-05-2016 09:27PM

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Standard of senior club hurling in Kilkenny has been in decline massively in past 4/5 years. I would attend alot of club games and most of the club games are of a shocking standard.

I'd have to disagree with you on this, without doubt the standard has dropped since the really strong club scene in the 00s and probably up until 2010 or 2011 but it's not shocking, the intensity of the games is up there only under senior inter county and if you go to other counties that becomes even more apparent. Take for example Tipperary where there is sides playing senior who'd seriously struggle in Kilkenny intermediate, the Kilkenny club scene isnt as strong as it used to be fair enough but to say its a shocking standard is just wrong.

unrealtime · 25-05-2016 09:32PM

Serious problems at management level and at player level. Players need to realise that titles must be sought and won by every effort possible and are not handed out on a plate. Does anyone seriously think that Westmeath will win a title this year. Fair dues to them but I don't.

4 years in a row so not a calamity for our seniors then!

dastardly00 · 25-05-2016 09:35PM

kkclubhurling wrote: »

Shocked by that, this was a really strong U21 panel this year, sure there were one or two big calls made on the team selection but thats the nature of competition on the panel, compared to the last two years these boys had serious potential.

dobbs2210 wrote: »

I'm not at all surprised the U21s were beaten. I saw them play Clare in a challenge game and Kilkenny were absolutely awful. Saw them play Tipperary and thought they looked very poor and I know Cork outplayed them in a game also and Kilkenny were poor against them.

Quite the contrasting opinions there lads

blackcard · 25-05-2016 09:38PM

I don't think these kk players could play as badly ever again. A host of bad wides including frees in front of the goal, giving away very soft frees when there was absolutely no danger. It seemed panic set in during the second half and they were trying to walk the ball into the net instead of taking points. There was very little continuity to the game with stoppages every minute. Just a shocking day at the office

Cornerback1 · 25-05-2016 09:39PM

randd1 wrote: »

We're in bother at U21 lads. While U21 is fickle at the best of times, and while we shouldn't ignore Westmeath's improvement at underage either, the fact that we just don't produce at this level is a worry.

In saying that, I would be a million times more worried if our minor results mirrored U21. If you look at our minor record, 2011 and 2012 apart, we've had good solid teams for the best part of a decade and we've tended to narrowly lose out to very good teams when we didn't win.

All the same, something needs to happen big time to stop the rot. We're producing good players with and fine all-round skill set, but at underage there seems to be a lacking of creativity and work ethic creeping into our teams, as if a Kilkenny jersey means you've got your AI's sorted rather than earning it. That lack of creativity and work ethic has arguably cost us a few more minor titles, it's almost as if we're over-coaching young lads.

That's 8 years without an AI at U21, and only 2 Leinsters in that time to boot.

Worrying times ahead, the County Board need to act fast, need to ascertain the problem at U21 (and minor to an extent), and get it sorted immediately.

The worst thing I can say about our recent U21 record; we're starting to resemble Cork.

Is that saying that the U21's maybe don't think that there's a chance of getting called up to the senior squad?

As Cody really doesn't go with U21's, maybe sub consciously they are thinking, well i'll not get called up to senior's anyway so maybe that's where the lack of/not enough effort or workrate is about.

Probably clutching at straws!!

dobbs2210 · 25-05-2016 09:40PM

Massive difference between intensity and standard.

Yes a lot of tight, tense game with intensity but the actual standard of the games. Scores from play.
Just to give an example.

Rower v Bennettsbridge last weekend. Rower were awful. Bennettsbridge scored 1-1 from play in 1 hour.
Village v Boro was an awful standard game. Village scored 5pts from play.
Plenty of intensity but standard, skills, combination scores from play is very very bad.

Think the poor club scene is showing fruits at county level.

kkclubhurling · 25-05-2016 09:48PM

Don't think the weather last weekend helped any of the games but I accept the point about those games, however you'd have to say on the flip side that James Stephens vs the Bridge, O'Loughlins vs Clara, Clara vs Ballyhale, Martins vs Bridge over the previous few rounds were all good games with plenty of skill and scoring, id accept that at times the defending in those games was poor but I think that came down to nearly all those sides being short defenders in those games, the strength in depth is gone from the senior panels but I still think the standard is very strong, certainly compared to the national club scene.

brookville · 25-05-2016 09:49PM

unrealtime wrote: »

Serious problems at management level and at player level. Players need to realise that titles must be sought and won by every effort possible and are not handed out on a plate. Does anyone seriously think that Westmeath will win a title this year. Fair dues to them but I don't.

4 years in a row so not a calamity for our seniors then!

Was brian coady not helping eddie?everyone tought eddie was a good appointment at the time a former great highly respected person.11 of tonight's starters play senior with their clubs.3 or 4 are in with the seniors.westmeath deserved the win tonight so it wasn't like we were robbed dublin or wexford would probably have hammered us anyway the only positive is john walsh hurled well again and is good form better prospect than liam blanchfield imo

blackcard · 25-05-2016 10:01PM

It wasn't the reason we lost but I hated to see short puckouts being taken to a corner back who was then taking the ball into contact and as often as not losing possession or at best the ball ending up where the goalkeeper could have pucked it anyway.. There also seemed to be a dreadful lack of urgency with it taking an age to take line balls and frees. Along with the time wasting by Westmeath and a shockingly fussy referee meant that there was very little time with the ball in play..

Cornerback1 · 25-05-2016 10:03PM

brookville wrote: »

unrealtime wrote: »

Serious problems at management level and at player level. Players need to realise that titles must be sought and won by every effort possible and are not handed out on a plate. Does anyone seriously think that Westmeath will win a title this year. Fair dues to them but I don't.

4 years in a row so not a calamity for our seniors then!

Was brian coady not helping eddie?everyone tought eddie was a good appointment at the time a former great highly respected person.11 of tonight's starters play senior with their clubs.3 or 4 are in with the seniors.westmeath deserved the win tonight so it wasn't like we were robbed dublin or wexford would probably have hammered us anyway the only positive is john walsh hurled well again and is good form better prospect than liam blanchfield imo

I think statement said, when he was first appointed, that he was helping Eddie but tmit was a mistake and then another one was put out saying BC had no influence over U21's.

If i remember correctly, they were announced on the same night.

blackcard · 25-05-2016 10:04PM

brookville wrote: »

Was brian coady not helping eddie?everyone tought eddie was a good appointment at the time a former great highly respected person.11 of tonight's starters play senior with their clubs.3 or 4 are in with the seniors.westmeath deserved the win tonight so it wasn't like we were robbed dublin or wexford would probably have hammered us anyway the only positive is john walsh hurled well again and is good form better prospect than liam blanchfield imo

John Walsh got no score from play and was taken off the frees tonight?

dobbs2210 · 25-05-2016 10:07PM

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

Realt Dearg Sec · 25-05-2016 10:09PM

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

Would agree that blaming Eddie is too simplistic, and it clearly runs deeper than that, but saying the players weren't good enough is a strange one when so many of them have all Ireland medals. They can't be that bad!

Topcat32 · 25-05-2016 10:10PM

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Wouldn't blame Eddie. Think he was a good appointment. He worked with the players he had. They simply are not good enough.

Wouldn't be too hard on Eddie Brennan. Problems run alot deeper than Eddie as manager.

When did they stop being good enough? They look pretty good at 17 and 18

brookville · 25-05-2016 10:11PM

blackcard wrote: »

John Walsh got no score from play and was taken off the frees tonight?

Sorry I must of got my wires crossed so I tought alan murphy would of being on the frees who missed the penalty?

dobbs2210 · 25-05-2016 10:16PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

When did they stop not being good enough? They look pretty good at 17 and 18

Lads, 17 and 18 is grand but players change. This is U21. I saw the 21s play a few games against Clare, Tipp and Cork and they were absolutely terrible againstClare and Tipp and Cork were by far better than them i beleive talking to 1 of the players.

Topcat32 · 25-05-2016 10:19PM

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Lads, 17 and 18 is grand but players change. This is U21. I saw the 21s play a few games against Clare, Tipp and Cork and they were absolutely terrible againstClare and Tipp and Cork were by far better than them i beleive talking to 1 of the players.

Tipp beat them by 2 points, hardly far better.

dobbs2210 · 25-05-2016 10:21PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

Tipp beat them by 2 points, hardly far better.

If Tipperary took there chances that night. I was at the game. The full back line were tore to bits.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*