Car park wins. Car ban on Bachelors Walk reversed. Bikes on Benburb st too.

Spanish Eyes · 20-05-2016 10:32pm #1

Any comments?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0520/789903-dublin-traffic/

Bachelors walk is a disaster at the moment. Don't know how this decision will improve things.

But am glad that the cycle route and not buses will go on Benburb Street.

Taxis to be allowed on College Green too.

The chance for a major change has been lost. Car parks and taxis win.

liger · 20-05-2016 11:57pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Any comments?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0520/789903-dublin-traffic/

Bachelors walk is a disaster at the moment. Don't know how this decision will improve things.

But am glad that the cycle route and not buses will go on Benburb Street.

Taxis to be allowed on College Green too.

The chance for a major change has been lost. Car parks and taxis win.

More missed opportunities to make city traffic work better.

The idea of no private vehicles allowed to turn right from O'connell bridge to Eden Quay will be just a waste of time. Look at the number of no access except for buses that are blindly ignored. Right turn onto dame st from Georges st, Dorset st toward panelled sq. Turning left at the bottom of Dawson st before the luas work.

If these are not going to be enforced they are pointless. They may as well stick up signs saying right turn only for unicorns and leprechauns.

AlekSmart · 21-05-2016 12:09am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Any comments?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0520/789903-dublin-traffic/

Bachelors walk is a disaster at the moment. Don't know how this decision will improve things.

But am glad that the cycle route and not buses will go on Benburb Street.

Taxis to be allowed on College Green too.

The chance for a major change has been lost. Car parks and taxis win.

The original proposals were never a runner.

Dublin City Council knew this long before they embarked upon the Public "Consultation" process.

It is not simple the "Car Parks and Taxi's" winning that is the issue,but rather what,and/or Who constitute the very effective representation of these groups.

The Owners/Operators of the Dublin City Centre Multi-Storey Car Parks have,by now some 4 decades of experience in closely operating alongside Dublin Corporation/City Council planners,experience which has consistently proved hugely beneficial to their businesses.

Try drawing a timeline back to the first multi-stories in Dublin,particularly to the figures who were dominant in,both civic and national politics at that time and the heights many of them rose to in later years....occasionally,the answers to complex questions can be far simpler than might initially be expected.....;)

AlekSmart · 21-05-2016 12:14am

liger wrote: »

More missed opportunities to make city traffic work better.

The idea of no private vehicles allowed to turn right from O'connell bridge to Eden Quay will be just a waste of time. Look at the number of no access except for buses that are blindly ignored. Right turn onto dame st from Georges st, Dorset st toward panelled sq. Turning left at the bottom of Dawson st before the luas work.

If these are not going to be enforced they are pointless. They may as well stick up signs saying right turn only for unicorns and leprechauns.

Gantry mounted ANPR cameras,coupled with large signs and L.E.D. displays reading

"LEFT TURN €100 - RIGHT TURN FREE

" or vice versa.

Traffic monitoring and control systems have come far in the last 20 years,time for Dublin City Council to grasp the opportunities now offered by the technology.

aliveandkicking · 21-05-2016 12:33am

AlekSmart wrote: »

liger wrote: »

More missed opportunities to make city traffic work better.

The idea of no private vehicles allowed to turn right from O'connell bridge to Eden Quay will be just a waste of time. Look at the number of no access except for buses that are blindly ignored. Right turn onto dame st from Georges st, Dorset st toward panelled sq. Turning left at the bottom of Dawson st before the luas work.

If these are not going to be enforced they are pointless. They may as well stick up signs saying right turn only for unicorns and leprechauns.

Gantry mounted ANPR cameras,coupled with large signs and L.E.D. displays reading

"LEFT TURN 100 - RIGHT TURN FREE " or vice versa.

Traffic monitoring and control systems have come far in the last 20 years,time for Dublin City Council to grasp the opportunities now offered by the technology.

Dublin City Council wanted to use ANPR cameras to enforce the College Green bus corridor a few years ago but alas Councils don't have any legal power to issue fines for road traffic offences so It is down to the boys in blue. The idea was met with stiff resistance by the Garda Traffic Corps and the solution since has been to pay overtime to two Garda to police the College Green bus corridor every weekday for the last two years.

Pete_Cavan · 21-05-2016 11:16am

Keeping general traffic on Bachelors walk will probably **** up the proposals to divert bus routes across Grattan Bridge as part of the College Green plaza plan. Wouldnt reversing the direction of traffic on Liffey Street and Middle Abbey Street solve a lot of these problems? Force private traffic to turn left off the quays at Liffey Street, allowing them to access Arnotts car park and O'Connell Street, while Bachelors walk becomes public transport only?

If the cycle route is being diverted to Benburb Street, they better be closing it off to traffic/parking and having proper dedicated cycle lanes. Also making proper arrangements for cyclists around the bottom of Smithfield Square/Coke Lane/Phoenix Street and Hammond Street to prevent cars entering or blocking cyclists on what is supposed to be a route designated for cycling. Anything else is just confirming that they consider cyclists needs as unimportant, to be shoehorned in around cars, even at dedicated cycling infrastructure.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-05-2016 8:13pm

aliveandkicking wrote:

The idea was met with stiff resistance by the Garda Traffic Corps and the solution since has been to pay overtime to two Garda to police the College Green bus corridor every weekday for the last two years.

This is nonsense. Apart from no evidence to suggest that Gardai could only do that on overtime hours, where does the idea come from that they only want to stand and watch traffic come from?

Banjoxed · 22-05-2016 9:09am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Keeping general traffic on Bachelors walk will probably **** up the proposals to divert bus routes across Grattan Bridge as part of the College Green plaza plan. Wouldnt reversing the direction of traffic on Liffey Street and Middle Abbey Street solve a lot of these problems? Force private traffic to turn left off the quays at Liffey Street, allowing them to access Arnotts car park and O'Connell Street, while Bachelors walk becomes public transport only?

If the cycle route is being diverted to Benburb Street, they better be closing it off to traffic/parking and having proper dedicated cycle lanes. Also making proper arrangements for cyclists around the bottom of Smithfield Square/Coke Lane/Phoenix Street and Hammond Street to prevent cars entering or blocking cyclists on what is supposed to be a route designated for cycling. Anything else is just confirming that they consider cyclists needs as unimportant, to be shoehorned in around cars, even at dedicated cycling infrastructure.

Sure what's the point of dedicated cycle infrastructure when cyclists won't use them? Waste of money.

Alias G · 22-05-2016 9:22am

Banjoxed wrote: »

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Keeping general traffic on Bachelors walk will probably **** up the proposals to divert bus routes across Grattan Bridge as part of the College Green plaza plan. Wouldnt reversing the direction of traffic on Liffey Street and Middle Abbey Street solve a lot of these problems? Force private traffic to turn left off the quays at Liffey Street, allowing them to access Arnotts car park and O'Connell Street, while Bachelors walk becomes public transport only?

If the cycle route is being diverted to Benburb Street, they better be closing it off to traffic/parking and having proper dedicated cycle lanes. Also making proper arrangements for cyclists around the bottom of Smithfield Square/Coke Lane/Phoenix Street and Hammond Street to prevent cars entering or blocking cyclists on what is supposed to be a route designated for cycling. Anything else is just confirming that they consider cyclists needs as unimportant, to be shoehorned in around cars, even at dedicated cycling infrastructure.

Sure what's the point of dedicated cycle infrastructure when cyclists won't use them? Waste of money.

They won't use infrastructure that has been poorly designed and thrown in as an afterthought and sop to cyclists. Cycling infrastructure that is well engineered with the requirements of the user in mind will be used.........a lot. And go a long way towards alleviating congestion in the city and making the place a far more enjoyable experience for the majority of people rather than the minority of sods who still insist on taking their cars to the city centre.

Pinch Flat · 22-05-2016 9:42am

Banjoxed wrote: »

Sure what's the point of dedicated cycle infrastructure when cyclists won't use them? Waste of money.

I'm guessing you don't cycle. I regularly use "dedicated" cycle infrastructure. Through the Phoenix park, I'm regularly confronted with dog walkers, pedestrians, roller blades etc. Worse in the longer sunny evenings. The Phoenix park cycle lane was unusable last weekend - full of all those above, other than bikes.

I cyclist along the quays - a "dedicated" cycle land is frequently impinged by vehicles. Buses pull in, cars turns left, pedestrians walk into it without looking.

Following the quays the "dedicated" lane reappears, but I've not got to turn right, across two lanes of buses and cars. The "dedicated" lane picks up again at jury's, heading towards st Patricks. The first turn left, cars usually sweep in left without regard for cyclists.

Finally, when I get towards st stephens green, the "dedicated" lane at the Luas tracks in constantly clogged with cars, who like to occupy the yellow box. It's not unusual to see a car (or more commonly, a motorbike), using the "dedicated" lane that extends along the south of the green. An Audi swept in front of me last Wednesday, to take a car space beside the "dedicated" lane at the east of the green - flashing front and back lights on my bike didn't matter, he was taking that space without scant regard for the three cyclists in the "dedicated" lane.

Cycle around Dublin for a day or two, then see how cyclists and dedicated lanes fair out.

aliveandkicking · 22-05-2016 12:30pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This is nonsense. Apart from no evidence to suggest that Gardai could only do that on overtime hours, where does the idea come from that they only want to stand and watch traffic come from?

The evidence is there have been Gardaí physically there for the last 2 years. When the corridor hours was 0700 -1000 and 1600-1900 there was a Garda stationed at each side of the College Green physically stopping and turning back cars from going through the corridor. Now that the corridor hours are 0700 -1900 the two Gardaí spend the morning on one side of College Green and the afternoon on the other. When the Luas works began in the area 2 years ago DCC felt the area would grind to a complete halt if the bus corridor wasn't strictly enforced. They wanted to put ANPR cameras up and issue fines but the Gardaí were having none of it but instead said they could physically police it at a cost of course. Incidentally the bill for the extra policing is being charged to Luas Cross City. Now you can choose to believe all this or not to believe it and dismiss it as nonsense, I don't really mind either way. We're off topic on the thread as it is.

On topic though I feel continuing to allow private cars on Bachelors Walk will be a disaster considering the amount of buses they are planning to divert via Parliament St onto the quays. I predict the car ban on Bachelors Walk will be back on the agenda shortly after the plaza openson College Green.

Chivito550 · 22-05-2016 11:19pm

So, we are going to build a plaza at College Green, with all buses diverted down the quays, yet these buses will now have to share the quays with private cars which shouldn't be allowed near the centre of such a congested city. Why are we so so sh1t at planning these kind of things? Also, taxis being allowed to drive on the route the LUAS cross city will be taking. Laughable stuff. Looks like the city will become even more chaotic than it already is, with trams stuck behind rows of taxis and buses!

:mad::mad::mad:

trellheim · 23-05-2016 12:04am

Hang on a sec does this not all stand or fall as a whole ...

The way I view this you MUST move ( x buses through the central core) in the morning rush to take an example.

In order to move the buses - or even have a hope of moving that number away from College Green - you needed this - so does this not invalidate the plaza ?

BTW Consultation closes tomorrow.

cgcsb · 23-05-2016 9:21am

So, the cycle way issue isn't actually solved

1) the apartment block in the way is still in the way. Are cyclists to divert onto the luas tracks in Smithfield?

2) people are going to park on it on Benburb st.

3) With basically all Dublin buses using Bachelors walk after the CG plaza, how on Earth can we still fit cars in?

cgcsb · 23-05-2016 9:28am

This is very annoying:

"There were concern about access to car parks and the impact on retail, access for the mobility impaired and access for taxis and deliveries"

Throwing the elderly and dissabled under the bus so to speak. As if it is in the interests of mobility impaired Dubliners to have to negotiate narrow footpaths and roaring traffic.

Sam Russell · 23-05-2016 10:02am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Gantry mounted ANPR cameras,coupled with large signs and L.E.D. displays reading

"LEFT TURN €100 - RIGHT TURN FREE " or vice versa.

Traffic monitoring and control systems have come far in the last 20 years,time for Dublin City Council to grasp the opportunities now offered by the technology.

Irish Rail have installed ANPR cameras at the Sydney Parade level crossing coupled with a (small) sign saying the ANPR cameras are installed for, among other things, the prosecution of offenders.

Devilman40k · 23-05-2016 10:13am

cgcsb wrote: »

3) With basically all Dublin buses using Bachelors walk after the CG plaza, how on Earth can we still fit cars in?

By magic...

This plan will have to come into effect before construction work begins on the College Green Plaza, we will see very quickly that Bachelors Walk will not be suitable for the volume of bus and car traffic expected .

This begs additional questions will right turn onto O'Connell Bridge be maintained for private motor traffic?

Will private motor traffic still be allowed to head straight on from Bachelors walk to Eden Quay and beyond.

If the answer is yes to both of those questions it will, in my opinion, be a disaster for bus users

Chivito550 · 23-05-2016 10:55am

This city truly is such a mess when it comes to transport. It's only when you've visited places like below that you truly appreciate what an utter farce we have made of our city.

il_fullxfull.858581193_dahf.jpg

hardCopy · 23-05-2016 11:16am

Can we not just CPO the bloody multi-storeys at this stage? They spoil every effort at traffic management in the city.

trellheim · 23-05-2016 12:58pm

Is there an actual diagram of the cycle route as I cannot see one anywhere - especially in detail and how it links with the traffic flow

Spanish Eyes · 23-05-2016 2:20pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Can we not just CPO the bloody multi-storeys at this stage? They spoil every effort at traffic management in the city.

Agree totally.

It is ridiculous the way carpark owners actually run the traffic management now. Feck the rest of us.

I actually thought there was a proposal to use multi storeys for other commuter uses like bike parks or something like that. Does anyone recall that?

hardCopy · 23-05-2016 4:47pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Agree totally.

It is ridiculous the way carpark owners actually run the traffic management now. Feck the rest of us.

I actually thought there was a proposal to use multi storeys for other commuter uses like bike parks or something like that. Does anyone recall that?

The Drury Street multi-storey is owned by the council and provides bike parking beside a manned security hut.

Spanish Eyes · 23-05-2016 5:07pm

hardCopy wrote: »

The Drury Street multi-storey is owned by the council and provides bike parking beside a manned security hut.

Thanks, never knew the Council owned it though. Always thought it was privately owned from the time there were tax reliefs for car park developments.

Those were the days.

Cienciano · 23-05-2016 5:22pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

So, we are going to build a plaza at College Green, with all buses diverted down the quays, yet these buses will now have to share the quays with private cars which shouldn't be allowed near the centre of such a congested city. Why are we so so sh1t at planning these kind of things? Also, taxis being allowed to drive on the route the LUAS cross city will be taking. Laughable stuff. Looks like the city will become even more chaotic than it already is, with trams stuck behind rows of taxis and buses!

:mad::mad::mad:

Private transport needs to be able to get in to make deliveries. Also, not everyone cycles.

cgcsb wrote: »

This is very annoying:

"There were concern about access to car parks and the impact on retail, access for the mobility impaired and access for taxis and deliveries"

Throwing the elderly and dissabled under the bus so to speak. As if it is in the interests of mobility impaired Dubliners to have to negotiate narrow footpaths and roaring traffic.

And if the option for some mobility impared people is to get into the city or not, I'm sure they'd take roaring traffic over not getting in.

cgcsb · 23-05-2016 5:26pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Private transport needs to be able to get in to make deliveries. Also, not everyone cycles.

And if the option for some mobility impared people is to get into the city or not, I'm sure they'd take roaring traffic over not getting in.

banning cars from bachelor's walk wouldn't prevent anyone, dissabled or otherwise, getting into the City. It's just a sop for the multi-stories.

newacc2015 · 23-05-2016 5:34pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Can we not just CPO the bloody multi-storeys at this stage? They spoil every effort at traffic management in the city.

What about the hundreds of businesses who rely on their customers having parking? Multi-storey car parks exist, as there is a demand for them in the first place. If there is no where for customers to park in the city, people will shop in the suburbs where parking is available. There is a sizeable minority who wont use public transport. If car parks are gone, they wont take the bus, but instead go to Dundrum or Liffey Valley

If we want to reduce traffic in the city. Get rid of car spaces for civil servants in the city. Any new office block in the city has a handful of car spaces, but hundreds for bikes. Why would a civil servant have a car space paid for by the tax payer, when only really senior executives in private sector have the luxury of driving to work

Chivito550 · 24-05-2016 12:07pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

What about the hundreds of businesses who rely on their customers having parking? Multi-storey car parks exist, as there is a demand for them in the first place. If there is no where for customers to park in the city, people will shop in the suburbs where parking is available. There is a sizeable minority who wont use public transport. If car parks are gone, they wont take the bus, but instead go to Dundrum or Liffey Valley

If we want to reduce traffic in the city. Get rid of car spaces for civil servants in the city. Any new office block in the city has a handful of car spaces, but hundreds for bikes. Why would a civil servant have a car space paid for by the tax payer, when only really senior executives in private sector have the luxury of driving to work

Cities on the continent seem to cope just fine. People happily travel into their very vibrant city centres by public transport, and the shops are buzzing. Are we that incapable of giving up our cars? It's sort of like trying to take a toy off a child. Pathetic.

24-05-2016 12:18pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Cities on the continent seem to cope just fine. People happily travel into their very vibrant city centres by public transport, and the shops are buzzing. Are we that incapable of giving up our cars? It's sort of like trying to take a toy off a child. Pathetic.

Which are these paradises? I have lived in Rome, Paris, London, Birmingham, all with the same problems. Really, you should visit Rome!

Chivito550 · 24-05-2016 12:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Which are these paradises? I have lived in Rome, Paris, London, Birmingham, all with the same problems. Really, you should visit Rome!

Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Nuremberg, Zurich, Lausanne, Bern, Vienna. Would you like me to continue?

cgcsb · 24-05-2016 1:02pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Nuremberg, Zurich, Lausanne, Bern, Vienna. Would you like me to continue?

All places with excellent public transport services and infrastructure. Taking public transport to the City Centre in those places means a breezy 15 minutes on air conditioned rail with plenty of seats at off peak shopping times. In Dublin it's an hour standing on a bouncy bus at all times with the dreggs of DB staff shouting at you if you ask a question, so understandably there is ample incentive to drive.

EDIT: I agree with you in general Bachelor's walk needs to be closed to cars, but let's not pretend Dublin has sufficient public transport.

LXFlyer · 24-05-2016 1:11pm

Until proper high capacity rail solutions are put in place in this city, retaining some car access is going to be a fact of life in the city centre.

However there is going to have to be heavy bus priority in future with double bus lanes on both the north and south quays between O'Connell Bridge and Capel Street Bridge - otherwise the bus service will completely collapse given the changes to the network that are likely as a result of LUAS BXD becoming operational in 2017.

This is going to limit the number of lanes available to cars to one lane on each set of Quays, which is going to cause serious traffic issues unless people start to change their behaviour.

Car park wins. Car ban on Bachelors Walk reversed. Bikes on Benburb st too.

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