Car park wins. Car ban on Bachelors Walk reversed. Bikes on Benburb st too.

monument

You end up with something like this overall:



Using the colour key as above, these are all of the movements on the Church Street junctions:

(not including Luas which would run the same time as the bus movements and also not including pedestrian crossings as the image got overcrowded, but pedestrian phases can be run alongside other movements)...



The above should be relatively easy to work well as general traffic would only be moving southbound without turns or eastbound without turns.

The southbound general runs partly or fully before the bus and so that flushes out traffic on Church Street. It's rare that traffic on Arran Quay backs up right to the Queen Street junction -- the real issues there is the left turn from Queen Street onto the quays as this crosses the bus lane traffic, and so that turn would likely have to be made bus only.

Now, compare that to the Church Street junction which includes a number of turns and two-way traffic on Church Street (as per it would have been with Option 3):



There's a larger amount of movements and turns -- even if some turns were banned the two-way nature of Church Street makes it more complicated that the Queen Street suggestion. If bicycles used this way back to the quays it would have to cross all of the quays traffic lanes.

trellheim

Monument
I live not far from here

1. Queen St is jammers with private motorists ALL the time from the Quay to Benburb st. That left turn you want to make bus-only ? Since blackhall is already bus-only southbound, its the decent only way from Stoneybatter to turn onto the quays

2. Traffic is always blocked back there outside Ryans ... Buses won't get a chance of a right turn - yes I know theres a box in your diagram

What you've got there in my opinion and described almost exactly is the right turn from Mayor St onto Guild St towards Samuel Beckett Bridge - it has most of the same characteristics ( LUAS nearby, very busy traffic , turning onto very busy carriageway). And it blocks back terribly along Mayor St - it is awful for cars to get out ! Everyone jumps the reds . Stand there and watch it and tell me after observing that its not messed up !

Carawaystick

monument wrote: »

It's rare that traffic on Arran Quay backs up right to the Queen Street junction

I've gone this way 2 times this week and both times the general lane on the quay at queen st bridge was backed up . And it's summertime.

Routing upstream cyclists onto Benburb st seems daft. If someone's heading for imma or kilmainham etc, they're unlikely to go there.

monument

It's worth saying that this isn't for cyclists -- it's for the city. It would not be worth it to do it for current cyclists.

It might result in a small delay sometimes for buses, but, for example, so did the Millennium Bridge and other pedestrian crossing, but we have to look at the overall value.

trellheim wrote: »

1. Queen St is jammers with private motorists ALL the time from the Quay to Benburb st. That left turn you want to make bus-only ? Since blackhall is already bus-only southbound, its the decent only way from Stoneybatter to turn onto the quays

The BRT plan is likely to have an even more radical effect of Queen Street.

I'd look at it as an advance to that and in connection with a general lowering of number of car use within the canals -- the Liffey Cycle Route will take traffic lanes and parking out, but the city centre plan will before hand reduce the level of traffic.

Allowing general traffic to turn onto the general traffic lane on the quays would be part of this -- with the bus route on Benburb St, there would be no need to retain the current restriction.

trellheim wrote: »

2. Traffic is always blocked back there outside Ryans ... Buses won't get a chance of a right turn - yes I know theres a box in your diagram

A yellow box plus a red light camera will work.

trellheim wrote: »

What you've got there in my opinion and described almost exactly is the right turn from Mayor St onto Guild St towards Samuel Beckett Bridge - it has most of the same characteristics ( LUAS nearby, very busy traffic , turning onto very busy carriageway). And it blocks back terribly along Mayor St - it is awful for cars to get out ! Everyone jumps the reds . Stand there and watch it and tell me after observing that its not messed up !

It's been that way for years and is a good candidate for a red light camera, finning any motorist blocking the junction or otherwise breaking the red light.

Carawaystick wrote: »

I've gone this way 2 times this week and both times the general lane on the quay at queen st bridge was backed up . And it's summertime.

Routing upstream cyclists onto Benburb st seems daft. If someone's heading for imma or kilmainham etc, they're unlikely to go there.

Was it backed up due to the traffic turning right off Queen Street? How long was it backed up?

trellheim

Detailed PLaza design docs gone up on DCC

http://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/RoadsandTraffic/Documents/RT5158_1CollegeGreenPlazaProposals.pdf

As predicted the cycle lane through the plaza has been bottled.

More : http://www.dublincity.ie/college-green

LXFlyer

Those drawings have been there all along, or just after I put photos of them up on Boards - the only change has been the addition of three more photos.

They're not the final design that is planned.

That's yet to go to tender.

thomasj

Complete disaster this morning . It took 5 minutes to get from four courts to ormond quay and we were in the bus lane!

Pinch Flat

thomasj wrote: »

Complete disaster this morning . It took 5 minutes to get from four courts to ormond quay and we were in the bus lane!

Yeah total mess this morning, what was the story? must have been about a dozen buses lined up at the Croppy Acre

thomasj

Yeah it's the same again this morning . The bus lane is as bad as the other 2 lanes.

LXFlyer

The knock on effects of the ongoing LUAS works - it is impossible to predict from one day to the next.

trellheim

Currently several buses are laying over (much more than usual ) along Bachelor's walk . It seems to be driver changes on DB routes but Swords Express ( ? ) and the siteseeing ones all seem to be hanging around more than usual - this is blocking the bus lane back and normal dropping services at the stop have to wait (for a space to safely unload ) , thus everything on bus lane is messed up.

There was horrible traffic all the way down the Convention Centre yesterday as well

Another major problem with knock-on effects is the lane block at the turn from D'Olier St to Townsend St which forces turning traffic to remain in the College Green bound lane , thus blocking back across O'Connell Bridge .

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

Another major problem with knock-on effects is the lane block at the turn from D'Olier St to Townsend St which forces turning traffic to remain in the College Green bound lane , thus blocking back across O'Connell Bridge .

Similar thing happens every day from Westmoreland onto Aston Quay, exacerbated by the multitude ignorant pedestrians who walk across and block turning buses. If there's buses stopped in the left lane, the left turners have to use the OCS lane, which gums everything up. Coaches/Tour buses being allowed to alight/pickup in this area should be done away with.

cgcsb

We're about 18 months, give or take from BXD opening. I really hope DCC can get this sorted. If a CPO is needed for Arnotts car park, so be it. It's crying out for a redevelopment anyway/

thomasj

so the main problem with ormond quay is buses that are crossing over to grattan bridge (ie the 69 and 79/a)

with the clogged car traffic, these routes are waiting to get into the centre lane of traffic, which in turn is holding up buses and taxis behind it.

thomasj

so the main problem with ormond quay seems to be that buses that are crossing over to grattan bridge (ie the 69 and 79/a) are holding up the show

with the clogged car traffic, these routes are waiting to get into the centre lane of traffic, which in turn is holding up buses and taxis behind it.

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

so the main problem with ormond quay seems to be that buses that are crossing over to grattan bridge (ie the 69 and 79/a) are holding up the show

with the clogged car traffic, these routes are waiting to get into the centre lane of traffic, which in turn is holding up buses and taxis behind it.

Solution to that is re-route them along the Quays to use the Rosie Hackett bridge.

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Currently several buses are laying over (much more than usual ) along Bachelor's walk . It seems to be driver changes on DB routes but Swords Express ( ? ) and the siteseeing ones all seem to be hanging around more than usual - this is blocking the bus lane back and normal dropping services at the stop have to wait (for a space to safely unload ) , thus everything on bus lane is messed up.

There was horrible traffic all the way down the Convention Centre yesterday as well

Another major problem with knock-on effects is the lane block at the turn from D'Olier St to Townsend St which forces turning traffic to remain in the College Green bound lane , thus blocking back across O'Connell Bridge .

Reduced traffic has impacted on some routes and buses are arriving earlier than normal at the driver changeover points.

MJohnston

I would have to say that Bachelor's Walk is incredibly unsuited for layover parking. If they're going to do this, they need to move the changeover points *past* O'Connell Bridge where most of the traffic diverges. Bachelor's bus lane has become essentially a car park, and it makes it useless for rapid transit, as well as very dangerous for private vehicles attempting to turn left onto OCS

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

I would have to say that Bachelor's Walk is incredibly unsuited for layover parking. If they're going to do this, they need to move the changeover points *past* O'Connell Bridge where most of the traffic diverges. Bachelor's bus lane has become essentially a car park, and it makes it useless for rapid transit, as well as very dangerous for private vehicles attempting to turn left onto OCS

There's very few places suitable to do it given the LUAS works - the buses aren't laying over as such - they're just arriving ahead of time for the driver handover due to reduced traffic.

That's why the double bus lane is needed.

MJohnston

I was talking about the tour buses and coaches more so, which definitely seem to be laying over, at least for a bit. Even 5 minutes is probably too long. Fair enough if they're arriving ahead of time, but I would argue that BW is just the wrong place for any switchovers, possibly even just any bus stops at all, in its current layout. The fact that there's still private car parking spaces along there too is mad!

LXFlyer

MJohnston wrote: »

I was talking about the tour buses and coaches more so, which definitely seem to be laying over, at least for a bit. Even 5 minutes is probably too long. Fair enough if they're arriving ahead of time, but I would argue that BW is just the wrong place for any switchovers, possibly even just any bus stops at all, in its current layout. The fact that there's still private car parking spaces along there too is mad!

Where else can you put bus stops though? There's no space anywhere else until Nassau St - that's far too long a gap. It is far from ideal but right now there are serious limitations on the operation of the city's bus service due to the LUAS works.

Totally agree about the car parking - DCC is going to have to bite a bullet on that.

MJohnston

lxflyer wrote: »

Where else can you put bus stops though? There's no space anywhere else until Nassau St - that's far too long a gap. It is far from ideal but right now there are serious limitations on the operation of the city's bus service due to the LUAS works.

Totally agree about the car parking - DCC is going to have to bite a bullet on that.

I don't know where you could put the stops to be honest, I agree it's a really tricky situation, but BW seems like the worst possible choice of all in general.

trellheim

Its actually a little bit of a forward feedback loop as well; if a 39 ( for example ) is known to take ages stopping at BW then a lot of people will get off as even two minutes delay will mean it is quicker to walk to a lot of places; this then delays the bus longer while people get off ( assuming its not stopped for a driver change) . Given the current delays on D'Olier st there are several times I wish I'd walked from BW !

cgcsb

As an aside one thing that currently irks me about the current layout is that there is a double bus lane on Pearse st, yet the same arrangement has not been implemented on Nassau st, where both north and south bound routes meet. Also still no bus lane on Tara st.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

As an aside one thing that currently irks me about the current layout is that there is a double bus lane on Pearse st, yet the same arrangement has not been implemented on Nassau st, where both north and south bound routes meet. Also still no bus lane on Tara st.

There remains a lot of work to be done to give buses genuine priority through the city centre.

StreetLight

thomasj wrote: »

so the main problem with ormond quay seems to be that buses that are crossing over to grattan bridge (ie the 69 and 79/a) are holding up the show

with the clogged car traffic, these routes are waiting to get into the centre lane of traffic, which in turn is holding up buses and taxis behind it.

A throwback to when there was no other reasonably quick way of getting to terminate on Aston Quay, except to cross the river into Dame Street, already devoid of any bus lanes, and around onto Westmoreland Street.

Those routes should have been sent straight down to cross at the Rosie Hackett Bridge the moment it opened, but there are some times when Dublin Bus seem resistant to change.

With traffic congestion probably now on a par with levels not seen since the 'Tiger Economy', this is an issue which needs serious consideration.

thomasj

On the bus and in the bus lane on the quays haven't moved for nearly 10 minutes. It's getting ridiculous.

magicbastarder

how many car parking spaces are there provided for employees within the canals? are there any stats on this?

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

On the bus and in the bus lane on the quays haven't moved for nearly 10 minutes. It's getting ridiculous.

While the LUAS works are still ongoing this is going to keep happening - there's not really anything that can be done about it.

That's the main problem - the 69 and 79/a issue doesn't help, but their frequency isn't high enough to be the main cause.

It's a knock on effect - it's not just the Quays that are affected. Plenty of other routes are affected by it too.

It's a case of having to grin and bear it.

trellheim

Turning from Capel St to Quays can be delayed quite a bit too as y