Compulsory Military Service

Lurkio · 21-05-2016 07:42PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You do realise you cant make adults do your bidding, right?

Can if you join the army, get a gun and point it at them though.

sonofenoch · 21-05-2016 07:46PM

Wouldn't have minded it at the time myself, but that time has gone now obviously .....other than that the army would never have been a consideration for me, marching up and down the square doesn't appeal

Timberrrrrrrr · 21-05-2016 07:51PM

genericguy wrote: »

You do realise that if I had children aged 30, they'd still be my children, right?

And to anyone disagreeing with me, I couldn't care less really. Be bleeding heart sympathisers all you like, but there's no way you'd be pleased if your children were flying out to Sudan or the Lebanon.

Also, to the one that commented on my agenda against Islam, I obviously do have distaste for them, and their disgusting ideology. they never cease to prove me right, either. It's highly disingenuous to use Christianity as a comparison. There are no major crusades ongoing in the name of Jesus Christ. Take AMERICA out of the equation, and consider how many ongoing conflicts there are in the world then.

FYP

pablomakaveli · 21-05-2016 08:25PM

Dont think compulsory military service is a good idea. Compulsory community work would be a good idea though. Working with charities and stuff like that would be beneficial and teach people the value of community and so on.

People say joining the army will give you discipline etc, and it will, but that only works when you want to be there.

callmepetardu · 21-05-2016 11:32PM

genericguy wrote: »

Nope. I'm not joining the army to give my life for people I've never met, and when I have children I won't be allowing them to join the military either. Politicians start and end arguments with their pens, if they want to scrap let them suit up and get into the trenches themselves.

The Irish military is the ultimate pointless career. No participation in wars of any sort, all they do is sit around refereeing in Muslim villages because Islamic countries can't be trusted to behave in a civilised manner.

Where did this mindset that if you're not fighting in a war you're doing no good come from?? The Irish army have been involved in numerous peacekeeping missions that were vital. Even look at the Navy rescuing people in the Mediterranean. Hardly a "pointless" career.

Personally I think it instills a certain type of discipline into someone that would be invaluable. Yeah we're not off fighting wars that'll be adapted to some Hollywood blockbuster, but our Defence Forces do stellar work overseas.

end of the road · 22-05-2016 12:40AM

the army have better things to do then having to deal with people who don't wish to be there. the army will have plenty of people who will want to be there all ready.

Faith+1 · 22-05-2016 02:07AM

We have an army?

Pinch Flat · 22-05-2016 03:04AM

I've always found that Ireland lacks a certain amount of social maturity we see in other main land eu countries.

This behaviour includes such things as a general lack of resourcefulness, littering / disrespect of others property / lack of personal and civic pride, selfishness in social situations that impact negatively on others, etc. My own view is that these can be die to a lack of basic discipline that instills respect and a few ground rules in people.

Military service is no longer as wide spread compulsorily as in the past - I believe Norway, Austria and Switzerland are some of the remaining few countries where it is still mandatory. However haven lived in Germany during a time when this was compulsory (you could also do civilian service with more of a bias on cominoty work), the behaviour of people setting out in life after the service was completed there and here was different.

Fathom · 22-05-2016 04:09AM

love humanity wrote: »

Are you in favour of compulsory military service for one year after leaving school in Ireland? What are the benefits of doing this? What are the drawbacks of doing this ?

Voluntary better. Everywhere. Not just Ireland. Freedom of choice. If invaded. Change mind.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-05-2016 09:47AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've always found that Ireland lacks a certain amount of social maturity we see in other main land eu countries.

This behaviour includes such things as a general lack of resourcefulness, littering / disrespect of others property / lack of personal and civic pride, selfishness in social situations that impact negatively on others, etc. My own view is that these can be die to a lack of basic discipline that instills respect and a few ground rules in people.

Military service is no longer as wide spread compulsorily as in the past - I believe Norway, Austria and Switzerland are some of the remaining few countries where it is still mandatory. However haven lived in Germany during a time when this was compulsory (you could also do civilian service with more of a bias on cominoty work), the behaviour of people setting out in life after the service was completed there and here was different.

The situation you highlight of more respectful kids and teenagers comes from parents being more communicative with their kids and less communicative with the media. Discipline and respect are instilled in them from an early age and long before they ever get old enough to join an army.

It's part of the mindset in Germany and the idea that it goes both ways. For example: kids are trusted to get to and from school on their own even at about 9 or 10, and trusted to wear respectful clothes and look neat and tidy at school when older. In Ireland, they get forced into uniforms and sent home and suspended for having long hair.

Consequently, the kids on the continent grow up more respectful of society because they FEEL respected BY society and the authorities around them. There's no military needed in this respect.

Pinch Flat · 22-05-2016 10:00AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The situation you highlight of more respectful kids and teenagers comes from parents being more communicative with their kids and less communicative with the media. Discipline and respect are instilled in them from an early age and long before they ever get old enough to join an army.

It's part of the mindset in Germany and the idea that it goes both ways. For example: kids are trusted to get to and from school on their own even at about 9 or 10, and trusted to wear respectful clothes and look neat and tidy at school when older. In Ireland, they get forced into uniforms and sent home and suspended for having long hair.

Consequently, the kids on the continent grow up more respectful of society because they FEEL respected BY society and the authorities around them. There's no military needed in this respect.

Yeah I agree with your points but it comes back what I called social maturity. Many facets of Irish social behaviour, in my own experience, lacks behind compared to other countries, and I agree this is evident in many stages from young school kids through to teenagers and young adults. Agree it's who young people are treated and respected by their peers that helps this.

My own experience haven met guys who were through military service (or its civilian equivalent) is that they were more mature, with life skills perhaps not gained here until much later. Military service is no longer compulsory in Germany and many other counties, I'm sure their countries won't all apart but I think we in Ireland have some searchin questions to answer regarding our own approach.

Shenshen · 22-05-2016 10:29AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I've always found that Ireland lacks a certain amount of social maturity we see in other main land eu countries.

This behaviour includes such things as a general lack of resourcefulness, littering / disrespect of others property / lack of personal and civic pride, selfishness in social situations that impact negatively on others, etc. My own view is that these can be die to a lack of basic discipline that instills respect and a few ground rules in people.

Military service is no longer as wide spread compulsorily as in the past - I believe Norway, Austria and Switzerland are some of the remaining few countries where it is still mandatory. However haven lived in Germany during a time when this was compulsory (you could also do civilian service with more of a bias on cominoty work), the behaviour of people setting out in life after the service was completed there and here was different.

I take it you've never come across a bunch of guys who had just completed the military service in Germany. They'd descend on my home town regularly at the end of service and left the place in ruins. I remember one day my mom wouldn't even let me leave the house because it got so bad.

I can guarantee you that the military service and the fact that towns usually are kept litter-free are in no way correlated.

BoJack Horseman · 22-05-2016 10:37AM

I'd be OK with the choice of a having a brief civilian or military compulsory service like the Scandis do.

It wasn't me! · 22-05-2016 10:39AM

No, it would ruin the army. The army only functions well and an develop if those serving have an active interest in being there. I don't necessarily have a problem with the idea of some sort of social obligation programme, but military service really isn't the answer. It's definitely not for everyone, and those coming in ill suited to it but who can't leave are unlikely to leave with any positive personal development.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-05-2016 11:14AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Vietnam says no.

Average age of fatalities 22.3 years old.

Wrong.

Indeed , instead when people retire they should join the military. Better health care then most nursing homes. And all you'll do in the future will be pilot drones or mechs remotely.

TerrorFirmer · 22-05-2016 11:54AM

genericguy wrote: »

The Irish military is the ultimate pointless career. No participation in wars of any sort, all they do is sit around refereeing in Muslim villages because Islamic countries can't be trusted to behave in a civilised manner.

How does that make it any less of a career?

keith16 · 22-05-2016 12:03PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'd be OK with the choice of a having a brief civilian or military compulsory service like the Scandis do.

Here in Switzerland there is a compulsory requirement spread out over time. I honestly think their society is better for it.

My kids will become Swiss citizen and will also have to do it. I have no problem with that.

Mackas_view · 22-05-2016 05:22PM

The posts in this thread epitomises how soft we have become as a nation. Ireland is full of sheep afraid to stand up for anything and always avoiding anything that might involve some hardship.

Pinch Flat · 22-05-2016 05:34PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I take it you've never come across a bunch of guys who had just completed the military service in Germany. They'd descend on my home town regularly at the end of service and left the place in ruins. I remember one day my mom wouldn't even let me leave the house because it got so bad.

I can guarantee you that the military service and the fact that towns usually are kept litter-free are in no way correlated.

Yes I've witnessed the guys finish their service - gangs of guys drunk. Perhaps it's a bit simplistic to correlate military service and civic behaviour / pride - I always felt we in Ireland lacked behind continental Europe on this front.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 22-05-2016 06:59PM

genericguy wrote: »

The Irish military is the ultimate pointless career. No participation in wars of any sort, all they do is sit around refereeing in Muslim villages because Islamic countries can't be trusted to behave in a civilised manner.

Pointless, no participation in wars, sitting around doing what in Muslim villages because WHO can't behave in a civilized manner?.

Well pointless, depends on what you judge to be pointless but in my thirty years service I've seen massive high points to my service and that of my comrades, too many to list here and many of which would go right over your head.

Sitting around Muslim villages because they can't behave ~ In total in my tours overseas I've see five Irish soldiers KIA ~ all killed by the Israeli Defence Forces (Jews mostly, some Druize) and the South Lebanese Army (Christians) and not one killed by a muslim.

We have lent massive humanitarian assistance to Muslims among other religions, and have made immeasurable improvements to their lives.

But to the thread, I'm not totally opposed to conscription, but it should be modeled the Swiss ~ whereby you can volunteer for civic duties instead of military service. You can cry off either if you wish, but then you're penalized in terms of paying a higher income tax on your earnings until you're thirty five years old.

Switzerland have one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and on a quality of life and happiness index they're rates some of the highest in the world.

They don't involve themselves in wars, you really don't have to to call yourself an army ya know!.

Lurkio · 22-05-2016 07:15PM

Germans used give you a choice between ambulance service or the army for the period of conscription, I think. The French gave you a choice between one year in france or two year abroad (or the other way round, can't remember).

arybvtcw0eolkf · 22-05-2016 07:23PM

Lurkio wrote: »

Germans used give you a choice between ambulance service or the army for the period of conscription, I think. The French gave you a choice between one year in france or two year abroad (or the other way round, can't remember).

I think the Sweds used to do something similar to France.

I remember serving with Swedish troops in Lebanon and being told that overseas service meant your service at home was cut shorter.

But they weren't an infantry unit, they were engineers serving in UNIFIL headquarters and away from the conflict.

I don't think it would be fair to send a conscripted soldier to war just to shorten his conscription service back home.

Barry Badrinath · 22-05-2016 07:28PM

Angela Shy Pocketbook wrote: »

I think the Sweds used to do something similar to France.

I remember serving with Swedish troops in Lebanon and being told that overseas service meant your service at home was cut shorter.

But they weren't an infantry unit, they were engineers serving in UNIFIL headquarters and away from the conflict.

I don't think it would be fair to send a conscripted soldier to war just to shorten his conscription service back home.

Always found the Swedes to be very professional. The Finnish on the other hand.....not so much.

L.Jenkins · 22-05-2016 08:23PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Indeed , instead when people retire they should join the military. Better health care then most nursing homes. And all you'll do in the future will be pilot drones or mechs remotely.

Would suit the current gaming generation in their old age.

ToddyDoody · 22-05-2016 10:07PM

It'd be a bit like forcing everyone to join the GAA, a lot of people wouldn't be interested - nerds, for instance.

I figure the world of work sorts the young people out enough.

"That'll soften their cough", as they say.

The One Doctor · 22-05-2016 10:27PM

Sure. Train everyone to kill strangers after leaving school. That'll learn 'em.

Nearly every country who introducing drafting dropped it after the quality of the armed forces dropped dramatically. Working in the armed forces is bad enough without being forced to do it.

melissak · 22-05-2016 10:41PM

Maybe a community service definitely not military.

Mountainsandh · 22-05-2016 10:46PM

Back in France in my teens, my boyfriend of the time, and my sister's boyfriend (who became her husband) did it. As of course a lot of other friends of the same age and generation.

It was brilliant for them.
Tough for us at the time, because they'd be gone to wherever they were sent for weeks at a time, could only come back on permission once in a while, but brilliant for them.

These were typical 18 year old boys, who hadn't been very diligent at school, had dabbled a little bit in dogdy teenage mistakes, were on the verge of ... not much really, trying to find jobs, maybe. More mistakes, probably.

Having to go to the army taught both these guys great lessons in discipline, how having to obey orders wasn't always all that bad. Boosted their self esteem too !

My own boyfriend was in the skiing/snow army type of thing. He had to get fitter, and then did all sort of fitness/snow exercises (training to save lives, dealing with avalanches, that kind of stuff) that he would never in a million years have envisaged or had a chance to do before.

My brother in law was sent down South of France. He had indicated he was into mechanics (but had zero training, had left school after Junior Cert equivalent) so he was sent to an army truck base. He learnt how to fix trucks down there, got a qualification from it, and that's what he's been working in since. He got his truck (and car) driving licence there too, at no cost of course, so he was driving trucks too for a while. He got to ride on helicopters, shoot guns (hasn't touched one since !), wear the gear, make lots of friends. He loved it and still reminisces fondly about it.

Both of them were broke all the time because we were young and stupid, but they did get a few bobs monthly, and they were only out on permission one or two week-ends per month if they were lucky, so that was fine. There was no cost at the army barracks for them except buying their own fags or treats.

They both extended their yearly stretch a bit, voluntarily.
They both came out of there more honest, over that silly 18-20 phase, and made honest lives for themselves.

So yes, I think done well, it could be a life changer for many here too.

Sorry for the long post, thought that might help some see it in another light.

Mountainsandh · 22-05-2016 10:57PM

ToddyDoody wrote: »

It'd be a bit like forcing everyone to join the GAA, a lot of people wouldn't be interested - nerds, for instance.

I figure the world of work sorts the young people out enough.

"That'll soften their cough", as they say.

Well in France anyway, there were all sorts of "branches" or specializations like.

So they'd suss out the youngsters, and if not immediately, a bit further after their initial standardized/general training, they'd be dispatched to where they could learn skills and do something they were into. That's if they behaved and deserved it of course. I'm sure there'd be plenty of IT specialized departments in the army nowadays were nerdy types would flourish and gain experience and/or training for example.

Ohbethehokey · 22-05-2016 11:01PM

Great idea, too many people are children now until thier thirties.

Compulsory Military Service

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