LW ,MW, SW Radio and The Future Of DRM

I tried to go all modern and listen to BBC R 4 LW on the mobile in the car and stream to the cars stereo, great sound quality of course but an extreme pain in the ass to use , touch screens in a car are a pain and I don't want to be playing with my phone while driving if I want to change stations. It was handy since I can't get LW on the car radio.

I had only a few moments of the audio dropping out due to some dodgy signal areas. With buffering it makes a difference,

So there is still no decent solution to going all modern for radio in the car at least, switching off analogue LW,MW is completely premature and wrong, I went into Currys in Carlow Town to check out internet radio's, they had 0. Only one Philips in Argos that did not get good reviews.

Oh I discovered there are DVB+ transmissions from Mount Leinster perhaps intermittent, but most stream at a poor 36-128 Kbps, this is shocking in this day and age. The BBC stream about 320 Kbps and they use AAC too not mp3. Even online streaming of most Irish radio stations are poor quality and sometimes far worse than a good AM station due to extremely high compression.

I was disappointed that I can't walk into a shop in carlow Town or even Naas any buy a decent quality internet radio, Harvey Norman charge about 70 Euro's more than Currys for the Roberts stream 93i and the closest place it's available in store is Blanchargstown, Currys have no collection in store meaning it has to be shipped in by special order from the U.K.

The 93i is expensive but got good reviews, but you can't install batteries ! I want a portable one.

The Stream 217 got good reviews but has no bluetooth, but is portable but I can't buy it in Ireland.

I think that if Europe is switching off Analogue MW and LW then they should ensure there are an adequate supply of internet DAB+ radios available. I can find a DAB radio no problem DAB+ too. But internet enabled ? they are very hard to find in store, at least outside of Dublin.

So if anyone can recommend me a good sounding portable internet radio with DVB+ that takes batteries let me know, looks like I'll probably have to goto E-bay.

The 93I can actually take a lithium batter costing 50 Euro's which would actually cost 10 Euro's max for the bare battery, ridiculous !!! why not allow it to use C or D cells ?

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a Roberts 83i - the predecessor and find it clunky. To change from FM to Dab requies cycling through all options including LastFM whatever that is. I was onto them but got nowhere as regards a software update. It does have a 12v DC input which might run from a car battery, but you would need to check with them to see if it could.

It takes ages to start up the internet radio - and is again clunky software.

LastFm was a streaming service like Shoutcast, gone now though it's turned into something else I think, subscription of course.

A friend of mine has the 83i and it's a decent radio but I agree, the software is a bit of a let down but he does like it and use it a lot but it wouldn't be for me and it only has DAB not DAB+ and there's no DAB here off the Mount Leinster transmitter. I hope the DVB+ stations are still working.

Good or bad I don't know but I bought the Roberts R-Line R100, quiet expensive but at least it has the option to install a proper battery and not some thing that sticks to the back of the radio.

It also has bluetooth.

It's not long released I think and there are only 2 reviews from Amazon, and WhatHifi haven't yet reviewed it.

Should be here next Monday or Tuesday.

I've avoided buying internet radios until now because imo most of them were pretty poor.

This R100 seems to tick all the boxes for me, finally. The "Optional not yet available" battery is a sting but if the radio is good and the battery lasts more than 5 hrs I'll be happy.

Doesn't look bad ? perhaps not everyone's cup of tea. I quiet like it.





Notice the battery under the radio with 3 lights ? this looks very neat and pretty large and perhaps can offer the quoted 12 hrs run time ?

Are you sure it has DVB+ I don't see it in the specs ?

we never tried to tune it in a very long time because there was no transmissions on DVB from Mount Leinster. Never tried to retune it but since I read there are DVB+ transmissions from Mount Leinster I might give it a go again. I thought when it had DVB on it that it didn't have +.

Does it tell you that you're on DVB or DVB+ ?

Sam Russell wrote: »

Unfortunately, RTE use the advantage of Dab + to reduce the bit rate so it is something like the same quality.

Typical of Irish stations, the poorest quality.

128 kbps isn't quality, 128 kbps was the standard in the days of ISDN and 300 Kbps DSL.

Some Irish DAB+ stations stream as dreadful as 32 Kbps, there should be standards for quality but sadly this doesn't exist in Ireland.

Even most Irish internet streams are woeful quality. The BBC stream at 320 Kbps AAC.

It's as bad as TV broadcasters advertising "HD Quality" Because the resolution might be a bit below 720p but the compression is terrible. This is why RTE's DVB transmissions are not good quality, they stream at only about 4-5 Mbs.

The Tullamore site , isn't that where the 252 Khz transmitter is ?

Where was the old MW one ?

I can imagine when RTE closes 252 they will dismantle it and it's a shame because at night it gets good coverage through Europe. I would hope someone has interest in it. It would be a shame to see it go.

If I had the funds I would love to set up a MW LW and SW station.

Glad they haven't destroyed the Tullamore site yet. There should be preservation orders on these sites.

You know, as mental as this sounds I feel every house should be equipped with a radio that has LW, MW and SW, if there was ever a major War or natural disaster and the internet and mobile comms went down then this would be the only means of receiving emergency communications.

With Putin acting the Divil who knows what will happen, in the event of a high altitude Nuclear detonation all modern electronics will be fried due to EMP so old transistor radios, or even better, old valve radios should be in every house.

Anyway, I feel that destroying LW, MW and SW transmitters would be a major mistake.

Analogue FM isn't going anywhere for a very long time. There is no real advantage to digital radio for short distance transmissions, digital would make much better sense on MW and SW bands.

Digital FM or DAB and DAB+ usually mean a much inferior sound quality than analogue FM due to outrageous compression being used. You'll hardly find a DAb or internet radio transmission in Ireland above 56 Kbps. Absolutely shocking.

My point still stands and I think it's very valid that in the event of a major natural disaster or war , we should keep MW, LW and SW transmissions alive and make sure every home is equipped with a decent quality radio.

SRM on SW is supposed to be really good and India is pushing DRM big time and is quiet successful there I believe. I would live to not have to depend on the internet to listen to radio. Not to mention the battery sucking demands such devices require. I like to be free of the internet sometimes.

L1011 wrote: »

You won't find a DAB(v1) transmission that low in Ireland at all - 80k mono is the lowest. 48k DAB+ is perfectly acceptable.

The claim that standard 128k MPEG1 Layer II DAB sounds worse than FM is based off the encoding technology available when launched about 20 years ago. The 96k stereo transmissions in the UK are worse, though - but we don't go that low here.

Lyric is 160k which is almost unheard of in the UK.

Last I heard DAB it was woeful , think it was on the days of tests from Mount leinster.

I certainly wouldn't call 48 Kbps acceptable , anything but.

Hard to imagine what the situation will be in 20 years, I expect FM will still be on the go, I mean why force people to buy new radios for something that's of no benefit ? DAB, = pointless.

As I said making AM, SW digital makes sense and this is what they're doing in India and other parts of the world.

Germany and France have 1 station that they are using DRM as a trial on SW but I don't think they're serious about it. There isn't a commercial DRM capable receiver available outside of India yet.

I do think it's a massive mistake to abandon Am, and SW, if there is a major war or natural disaster, even a massive solar flare large enough to knock out massive sections of our electrical grids then chances are most digital forms of communications will go down and AM, LW, SW and FM may be the only form of communications.

I feel every home in Ireland should keep an old AM, FM, LW, SW radio. Preferably the old transistor ones.

To find out how good DRM is you'll have to get an SDR receiver , some of the RTL dongles or I use the SDRplay from http://sdrplay.com/

One thing with SDR or any SW is that you need to eliminate sources of noice, any switch mode power supplies, such as monitors, some monitors are way noisier than others, led lights, compact fluorescent and power line adaptors for running internet over the house mains wiring is absolutely brutal etc.

You'll need to decode the DRM signal also, check out the below site.

http://www.rtl-sdr.com/tutorial-drm-radio-using-rtl-sdr/

Note that with a lot of the SDR dongles you need to use an up-converter to use frequencies below in some cases 30 mhz, with the SDRplay you don't and it's less hassle , you don't need an up-converter.

Anyway if you get it working, digital on SW is quiet amazing but does suffer the all or nothing problems with digital and the bitrate can be quiet low but it's an example of what can be done and it's amazing how clear stations can be from so far.

I don't think AM or SW will go anywhere this century. There's still quiet a huge interest in Ham radio also and getting more popular with the likes of SDR, there's more interest in listening also. Some day I hope to get my Ham license.

Mickie Mike wrote: »

For DRM the short wave band is best, much better than LW and MW as the radio waves are shorter, I would like such a service, we have the mast in Tullamore Co, Offaly

Was that the old MW station ?

Yeah to hear DRM on Shortwave is truly amazing. And it means I can listen to some stations with perfect clarity with none of that interference I am plagued with here in the housing estate, it's got a very bad RF problem and I would love to find the source but we're moving soon, however DRM means listening to SW stations is a pleasure even if most for now are low bitrate it beats the high RF problem I have to endure, when I go to my Aunts the difference to SW reception is just amazing.

The problem is signal fade out, DRM like any other digital transmission needs a strong signal where you can still hear something on analogue but with RF it actually might not be heard.

My problem for now is being tied to the laptop for DRM reception.

The SDRplay is truly great device, I highly recommend it, you need a good antenna, well grounded or use a magnetic loop on a rotator on the chimney either, magnetic loops are supposed to be absolutely terrific at reducing RF interference in urban areas.

The Wellbrook loops got great reviews.

http://www.wellbrook.uk.com/Loop_Antennas

Mickie Mike wrote: »

The old MW station was RTE Radio 1 567 khz

Which was Tullamore ?

Thanks for that, Wow, was Atlantic 252 only on the Air 2 years ? seemed like a lot longer , I used to love that station !