LW ,MW, SW Radio and The Future Of DRM

Now that Europe is closing down LW and MW stations and SW is all but gone I was hoping there would be a future for DRm at least to keep the bands alive but it's not going to happen because the LW, MW and SW transmitters are being dismantled and most are actually gone so there will be no transmitters left to transmit DRM from.

The U.K is one of the last to keep MW and LW alive and BBC R4 will be gone as soon as the Valves wear out in their transmitter. Most of the MW stations will be gone in a few years.

Germany, France and the Netherlands have closed most if not all MW transmitters , most LW is gone too. Our own MW broadcasts are long gone and the last LW 252 RTE will be gone in 2017, I remember Atlantic 252 all too well !

Pretty sad time for radio. I always loved being able to hear distant stations and being amazed of what you could pick up.

Listening to radio on the internet , on your mobile etc isn't radio, it's just not the same as listening to radio on a portable transistor.

Now pretty much all that's left are some distant SW stations from around the world.

In the U.S there is no signs of MW closing any time soon.

It's a pity DRM died but funny enough it's huge in India and growing fast so perhaps we might see a future in Europe some day for DRM, not everyone wants to be stuck to the internet all the time and not everyone can pick up the internet while out and about and to be honest the quality of Irish radio is at best a disgrace with very little that isn't just pop music and news every 30 mins and it was really nice to have alternative choice on MW and LW.

political analyst

Deleted User wrote: »

Now that Europe is closing down LW and MW stations and SW is all but gone I was hoping there would be a future for DRm at least to keep the bands alive but it's not going to happen because the LW, MW and SW transmitters are being dismantled and most are actually gone so there will be no transmitters left to transmit DRM from.

The U.K is one of the last to keep MW and LW alive and BBC R4 will be gone as soon as the Valves wear out in their transmitter. Most of the MW stations will be gone in a few years.

Germany, France and the Netherlands have closed most if not all MW transmitters , most LW is gone too. Our own MW broadcasts are long gone and the last LW 252 RTE will be gone in 2017, I remember Atlantic 252 all too well !

Pretty sad time for radio. I always loved being able to hear distant stations and being amazed of what you could pick up.

Listening to radio on the internet , on your mobile etc isn't radio, it's just not the same as listening to radio on a portable transistor.

Now pretty much all that's left are some distant SW stations from around the world.

In the U.S there is no signs of MW closing any time soon.

It's a pity DRM died but funny enough it's huge in India and growing fast so perhaps we might see a future in Europe some day for DRM, not everyone wants to be stuck to the internet all the time and not everyone can pick up the internet while out and about and to be honest the quality of Irish radio is at best a disgrace with very little that isn't just pop music and news every 30 mins and it was really nice to have alternative choice on MW and LW.

Analogue radio hasn't been shut down in Ireland. So how can Digital Radio Mondiale (assuming that's what you're referring to as DRM) be shutting down?

No don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Analogue radio is being shut down but the stations are disappearing fast on MW, LW and SW.

The initial plan was to change to DRM "Digital Radio Mondiale" on these bands but since the transmitters are being shut down and dismantled this won't happen.

In India DRM is big and getting a lot bigger.

AwaitYourReply

I often wonder just how long more the current DAB trials will continue on in their never-ending "pilot testing" in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and parts of the North-East. It is not ideal for those living in other parts of the country. How long more will we enjoy listening to radio on the FM Band before it too is gradually undermined?

I'd say FM has a long time yet because analogue stations can still be heard with weaker signals, digital either works or doesn't and DAB wouldn't work well in rural Ireland.

I think it's bad of RTE to terminate all LW and MW stations because not all parts of Ireland can get FM never mind DAB or the internet. There was a lot of unhappy Irish in the U.K when it was discovered RTE is terminating the LW 252 service. Not everyone wants to listen to the radio on what's usually a crappy internet enabled radio.

DAB stations usually sound a lot worse than FM because of the very low bitrates of 16-36 Kbps. Some are higher but in general the sound isn't great.

FRIENDO

Deleted User wrote:

The U.K is one of the last to keep MW and LW alive and BBC R4 will be gone as soon as the Valves wear out in their transmitter. Most of the MW stations will be gone in a few years.

This is sad to hear, I listen to MW radio mostly in the car, 5 Live, Talk Sport and R4.
Especially when driving early in the morning around 5 o clock, as Irish stations would be on auto drive at this time.
Lucky I'm driving on the east coast, so can pick up an ok reception.

However you can still pick up European language stations on MW, unfortunately I don't understand the language, but they are still broadcasting.

Yeah it really is a very sad time for radio.

There are many stations left on MW but the these are in rapid decline and nothing compared to just a few years ago.

I too listen to BBC in the car because there is usually far better quality programs than on Irish Radio.

I can listen to the "radio" on the phone but the 3G signal is dodgy outside the larger towns and it's not easy to change stations.

You'll be able to hear SW stations from outside Europe too but even these are in rapid decline.

The stations buzzing on SW today are Amateur radio, 160, 80, 40 meters etc. But you can't pick them up on a normal SW radio.

galtee boy

While I agree that it was more fun to try and pick up actual radio stations from far afield on MW or LW, I personally welcome the Internet for radio. For those of us not living near the border or east coast, it was a nightmare trying to drag in Five Live, Radio 4 etc for football commentaries and news etc. Now at home, on a good quality internet radio , being able to listen to those BBC stations crystal clear and thousands more if you want, is fantastic. The bit rate on the BBC stations is quite good and for talk radio , the bit rate doesn't have to be that high anyway. Even in the car, I connect my phone via Tunein Radio app, and I find that the coverage is very good, even in rural areas. In particular, Vodafones 3G and 4g coverage is excellent in rural areas as well as urban. Of course there are black spots, but there are plenty black spots even for FM too.

notmyusername

galtee boy wrote: »

While I agree that it was more fun to try and pick up actual radio stations from far afield on MW or LW, I personally welcome the Internet for radio. For those of us not living near the border or east coast, it was a nightmare trying to drag in Five Live, Radio 4 etc for football commentaries and news etc. Now at home, on a good quality internet radio , being able to listen to those BBC stations crystal clear and thousands more if you want, is fantastic. The bit rate on the BBC stations is quite good and for talk radio , the bit rate doesn't have to be that high anyway. Even in the car, I connect my phone via Tunein Radio app, and I find that the coverage is very good, even in rural areas. In particular, Vodafones 3G and 4g coverage is excellent in rural areas as well as urban. Of course there are black spots, but there are plenty black spots even for FM too.

Does that still have the football commentaries blocked?

galtee boy

notmyusername wrote: »

Does that still have the football commentaries blocked?

Yes, but that's easily solved, but not allowed to discuss it here. However I find that for some reason, some football commentaries on Talksport are not geo blocked and some are, but all sports commentaries on BBC radio are geo blocked . But sport aside BBC Radio 2 is an excellent music station and Graham Nortons show on it is excellent, all crystal clear via Internet radio.

notmyusername

galtee boy wrote: »

Yes, but that's easily solved, but not allowed to discuss it here. However I find that for some reason, some football commentaries on Talksport are not geo blocked and some are, but all sports commentaries on BBC radio are geo blocked . But sport aside BBC Radio 2 is an excellent music station and Graham Nortons show on it is excellent, all crystal clear via Internet radio.

Ah yeah, I know the workaround, but haven't needed to use the app in a while. I just wondered if the blocking still occurred - it did always seem random.

FRIENDO

In the past I loved Atlantic 252 on long wave, it was great, now my car doesn't even do LW, only FM and MW.

But I find RTE Gold excellent, when I want to do some work at home.

L1011

AwaitYourReply wrote: »

I often wonder just how long more the current DAB trials will continue on in their never-ending "pilot testing" in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and parts of the North-East. It is not ideal for those living in other parts of the country. How long more will we enjoy listening to radio on the FM Band before it too is gradually undermined?

RTE DAB is permanent, not a trial

galtee boy

L1011 wrote: »

RTE DAB is permanent, not a trial

Permanent for Dublin, Cork and Limerick cities and for those fortunate enough to live within the catchment area of Three Rock, Spur Hill and Keeper Hill transmitters respectively. What about the rest of the country ? They could at least pump out DAB from all the high sites like Mullaganish, Truskmore, Mount Leinster etc.

Digifriendly

Here in N. Ireland I listen on my car radio to both BBC Scotland/Wales for sport (810/882 MW) and will be sorry when these are gone. I also listen to them on my clock alarm bedside radio but its the car I will miss them most as I have them on Sky and internet at home.

I tried to go all modern and listen to BBC R 4 LW on the mobile in the car and stream to the cars stereo, great sound quality of course but an extreme pain in the ass to use , touch screens in a car are a pain and I don't want to be playing with my phone while driving if I want to change stations. It was handy since I can't get LW on the car radio.

I had only a few moments of the audio dropping out due to some dodgy signal areas. With buffering it makes a difference,

So there is still no decent solution to going all modern for radio in the car at least, switching off analogue LW,MW is completely premature and wrong, I went into Currys in Carlow Town to check out internet radio's, they had 0. Only one Philips in Argos that did not get good reviews.

Oh I discovered there are DVB+ transmissions from Mount Leinster perhaps intermittent, but most stream at a poor 36-128 Kbps, this is shocking in this day and age. The BBC stream about 320 Kbps and they use AAC too not mp3. Even online streaming of most Irish radio stations are poor quality and sometimes far worse than a good AM station due to extremely high compression.

I was disappointed that I can't walk into a shop in carlow Town or even Naas any buy a decent quality internet radio, Harvey Norman charge about 70 Euro's more than Currys for the Roberts stream 93i and the closest place it's available in store is Blanchargstown, Currys have no collection in store meaning it has to be shipped in by special order from the U.K.

The 93i is expensive but got good reviews, but you can't install batteries ! I want a portable one.

The Stream 217 got good reviews but has no bluetooth, but is portable but I can't buy it in Ireland.

I think that if Europe is switching off Analogue MW and LW then they should ensure there are an adequate supply of internet DAB+ radios available. I can find a DAB radio no problem DAB+ too. But internet enabled ? they are very hard to find in store, at least outside of Dublin.

So if anyone can recommend me a good sounding portable internet radio with DVB+ that takes batteries let me know, looks like I'll probably have to goto E-bay.

The Roberts Stream 217 can take batteries but has no built in charger and I've only an AAA , AA battery charger, unreal stuff in this day and age !

The 93I can actually take a lithium batter costing 50 Euro's which would actually cost 10 Euro's max for the bare battery, ridiculous !!! why not allow it to use C or D cells ?

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

I was disappointed that I can't walk into a shop in carlow Town or even Naas any buy a decent quality internet radio, Harvey Norman charge about 70 Euro's more than Currys for the Roberts stream 93i and the closest place it's available in store is Blanchargstown, Currys have no collection in store meaning it has to be shipped in by special order from the U.K.

The 93i is expensive but got good reviews, but you can't install batteries ! I want a portable one.

I have a Roberts 83i - the predecessor and find it clunky. To change from FM to Dab requies cycling through all options including LastFM whatever that is. I was onto them but got nowhere as regards a software update. It does have a 12v DC input which might run from a car battery, but you would need to check with them to see if it could.

It takes ages to start up the internet radio - and is again clunky software.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a Roberts 83i - the predecessor and find it clunky. To change from FM to Dab requies cycling through all options including LastFM whatever that is. I was onto them but got nowhere as regards a software update. It does have a 12v DC input which might run from a car battery, but you would need to check with them to see if it could.

It takes ages to start up the internet radio - and is again clunky software.

LastFm was a streaming service like Shoutcast, gone now though it's turned into something else I think, subscription of course.

A friend of mine has the 83i and it's a decent radio but I agree, the software is a bit of a let down but he does like it and use it a lot but it wouldn't be for me and it only has DAB not DAB+ and there's no DAB here off the Mount Leinster transmitter. I hope the DVB+ stations are still working.

Good or bad I don't know but I bought the Roberts R-Line R100, quiet expensive but at least it has the option to install a proper battery and not some thing that sticks to the back of the radio.

It also has bluetooth.

It's not long released I think and there are only 2 reviews from Amazon, and WhatHifi haven't yet reviewed it.

Should be here next Monday or Tuesday.

I've avoided buying internet radios until now because imo most of them were pretty poor.

This R100 seems to tick all the boxes for me, finally. The "Optional not yet available" battery is a sting but if the radio is good and the battery lasts more than 5 hrs I'll be happy.

Doesn't look bad ? perhaps not everyone's cup of tea. I quiet like it.





Notice the battery under the radio with 3 lights ? this looks very neat and pretty large and perhaps can offer the quoted 12 hrs run time ?

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

LastFm was a streaming service like Shoutcast, gone now though it's turned into something else I think, subscription of course.

A friend of mine has the 83i and it's a decent radio but I agree, the software is a bit of a let down but he does like it and use it a lot but it wouldn't be for me and it only has DAB not DAB+ and there's no DAB here off the Mount Leinster transmitter. I hope the DVB+ stations are still working.

It does indeed have Dab+ and receives RTE's trial Dab+ service which has been on trial for years.

I wish I could remove LastFM from the software but there is no provision for any tailoring of the menus. Very poor software.

Are you sure it has DVB+ I don't see it in the specs ?

we never tried to tune it in a very long time because there was no transmissions on DVB from Mount Leinster. Never tried to retune it but since I read there are DVB+ transmissions from Mount Leinster I might give it a go again. I thought when it had DVB on it that it didn't have +.

Sam Russell

Well, I get DAB and DAB plus, I assume, from 3Rock, but it could be from Kippure. I get FM from 3Rock.

Does it tell you that you're on DVB or DVB+ ?

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

Does it tell you that you're on DVB or DVB+ ?

Both. When you tune to RTE 1 it says RTE 1 for Dab or RTE 1+ for Dab+. On another radio that has Dab but not Dab +, it (obviously) does not tune the Bab + stations. Unfortunately, RTE use the advantage of Dab + to reduce the bit rate so it is something like the same quality.

Sam Russell

Sam Russell wrote: »

Unfortunately, RTE use the advantage of Dab + to reduce the bit rate so it is something like the same quality.

Typical of Irish stations, the poorest quality.

128 kbps isn't quality, 128 kbps was the standard in the days of ISDN and 300 Kbps DSL.

Some Irish DAB+ stations stream as dreadful as 32 Kbps, there should be standards for quality but sadly this doesn't exist in Ireland.

Even most Irish internet streams are woeful quality. The BBC stream at 320 Kbps AAC.

It's as bad as TV broadcasters advertising "HD Quality" Because the resolution might be a bit below 720p but the compression is terrible. This is why RTE's DVB transmissions are not good quality, they stream at only about 4-5 Mbs.

FRIENDO

Digifriendly wrote:

Here in N. Ireland I listen on my car radio to both BBC Scotland/Wales for sport (810/882 MW) and will be sorry when these are gone. I also listen to them on my clock alarm bedside radio but its the car I will miss them most as I have them on Sky and internet at home.

Can get a good reception on BBC Scotland 810mw in Dublin, I follow the Scottish football and driving home from work to Dublin-Gorey, can still get it but it starts breaking nearer home.

Mickey Mike

If Ireland is to launch a DRM service, the old transmission site at Tullamore should be used, formally Radio 1 MW 567khz. It should also use the SW band as the radio waves are shorter thus allowing a better signal. This will cover Ireland, the UK and a big chunk of Europe.
I can't see it happening but who knows. I wonder if the radio mast is still standing at Tullamore.

Sam Russell

Mickie Mike wrote: »

If Ireland is to launch a DRM service, the old transmission site at Tullamore should be used, formally Radio 1 MW 567khz. It should also use the SW band as the radio waves are shorter thus allowing a better signal. This will cover Ireland, the UK and a big chunk of Europe.
I can't see it happening but who knows. I wonder if the radio mast is still standing at Tullamore.

Using DRM actually defeats the purpose as it requires new receivers. I thought the whole argument was to enable old people who emigrated from Ireland over 40 years ago to continue to use their old radios on LW to still get RTE 1.

Mickie Mike

Mickie Mike wrote: »

If Ireland is to launch a DRM service, the old transmission site at Tullamore should be used, formally Radio 1 MW 567khz. It should also use the SW band as the radio waves are shorter thus allowing a better signal. This will cover Ireland, the UK and a big chunk of Europe.
I can't see it happening but who knows. I wonder if the radio mast is still standing at Tullamore.

Mast is still standing, saw it from the Dublin-Galway train last Friday.

medoc

Mickie Mike wrote: »

I wonder if the radio mast is still standing at Tullamore.

Yes it's still intact. They overhauled the mast and supports a few years before shutting down service. Can't say about the actual transmitter.