Seeing as nobodys asked the question

makingmecrazy · 18-05-2016 02:50PM

pone2012 wrote: »

And yet you fail to see the underlying point

Of course you do, you've missed it these past something odd pages by banging on about women's rights and whatnot.. All because you don't like someone's opinion

Okay...I'll bite.... what EXACTLY is your point?

Potatoeman · 18-05-2016 02:54PM

Candie wrote: »

You're not a mind reader.

It could be designed because that's how they like their beard to look.

Jesus, it's not hard to grasp surely? People like to look a certain way because it makes them feel good.

My gran doesn't leave the house without a slick of Revlon Red lipstick and a spritz of perfume, and at 80+ it's not because she wants men falling over her, it's because that's how she sees herself as a well-groomed and poised lady.

You don't have to be a mind reader. I made the point earlier about a guy in his fifties buying a sports car and getting plugs. Most people would make a judgement that it was a midlife crisis. It's no different.

SarahMollie · 18-05-2016 02:55PM

nelly17 wrote: »

So a couple of questions I have on this.

Ass fat injected into the lips right - or some synthetic material.

But does it ever break down or are you stuck with the pouty face thing for ever more? Coz I see it on TV and I'm talking Jersy shore here - have those girls permanently changed their appearance from it?

I don't know of anyone actually getting ass fat injected into their lips....

Most places today use hyluronic acid, and it need to be done every 6 months to maintain it, otherwise it just breaks down. Shouldnt effect the look of your lips in the long run. Not sure how the girls from Geordie Shore/Towie are going to fare as they have about 10x the recommended amount injected, and constantly look punched, but for most normal people, getting normal amounts, it should be fine.

nelly17 · 18-05-2016 02:56PM

SarahMollie wrote: »

I don't know of anyone actually getting ass fat injected into their lips....

Most places today use hyluronic acid, and it need to be done every 6 months to maintain it, otherwise it just breaks down. Shouldnt effect the look of your lips in the long run. Not sure how the girls from Geordie Shore/Towie are going to fare as they have about 10x the recommended amount injected, and constantly look punched, but for most normal people, getting normal amounts, it should be fine.

Yup they seem to have ****ed up their faces but to each their own

Olishi4 · 18-05-2016 02:57PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

What is it designed to do? Lipstick/blush is designed to show ovulation, flushed skin and reder lips. Foundation is to show clear skin, good genes. Highheels are to make your ass stickout. These are to attract male attention by design.
e.

You can simplify a lot of things to this point, not just make up but in reality humans are far more complex than that.

I was at a house party a few months ago. Two lads that were in our company have some humorous competitive thing going on between them and after a few drinks the inevitable happened...the suggestion of a wrist fight.

And obviously, the loser, not happy in his defeat had to make it best out of three.

If I go by your simplified make up logic, then these men were just trying to portray their masculine dominance and strength in order to attract a mate. The way I saw it was though, they were just having a bit of competitive fun and craic even if it did get a bit cringeworthy.

I love wearing makeup and I usually go for a natural look. I even enjoy applying it and getting ready for a night out. I'm not trying to deceive anyone. I just want to present myself to look the way I feel is nice on me. I do the same with my hair. I'll curl it or straighten it or whatever. And with my choice of clothes. It's not really some evil master plan or anything.

Foxtrol · 18-05-2016 03:00PM

Candie wrote: »

Generally, as a rule of thumb, if the question "Why do women do this?" occurs to you, you can assume the answer is "Because they want to, and they don't care how you feel about it".

"Why do men shave/grow beards?"
"Because they want to"
"But...I don't like it!"
"They don't care what you like, Candie, they're not doing it for you"
"Don't be silly, obviously their only motivation is to attract me and others of my kind! Because evolution!"
"Eh, no. They like how it looks on themselves"
"But I don't like it"
"Once more Candie, they don't care what you like"
"Why not?"
"Because you're not the centre of their world"
"They should still stop doing it. I don't approve"
"Nobody cares what you approve of"

It seems hard for people to grasp that their opinion ≠ universal truth.

I totally accept that the large majority of men grow beards/shave to project an image they want the outside world, be it what they believe to look professional, more attractive, or to generally differentiate themselves.

Why is it so hard for female poster’s to accept the same about women and makeup? It’s not a sign of weakness that you’re doing it to portray yourself to the outside world, it’s human nature.

DivingDuck · 18-05-2016 03:04PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

What is it designed to do? Lipstick/blush is designed to show ovulation, flushed skin and reder lips. Foundation is to show clear skin, good genes. Highheels are to make your ass stickout. These are to attract male attention by design.

You may have a point in that perhaps this is how the current standard of beauty was derived, but I really, really doubt any modern woman is thinking of these things as she applies her makeup.

All she's thinking is "This lipstick makes me look pretty". I would be surprised if many people gave much thought to why we consider that to be what is "beautiful", because it doesn't matter. They're simply bringing their own image into greater alignment with their standard of beauty, and since humans are social creatures, in most cases that standard comes from the prevailing standard in their culture.

Their thinking is so far removed from the original intent that whatever original purpose it served holds no relevance for them or their choices now.

Olishi4 · 18-05-2016 03:04PM

Candie wrote: »

You're not a mind reader.

It could be designed because that's how they like their beard to look.

Jesus, it's not hard to grasp surely? People like to look a certain way because it makes them feel good.

My gran doesn't leave the house without a slick of Revlon Red lipstick and a spritz of perfume, and at 80+ it's not because she wants men falling over her, it's because that's how she sees herself as a well-groomed and poised lady.

My granny was the exact same. Lipstick and a bit of powder on always before she left the house

jigglypuffstuff · 18-05-2016 03:10PM

makingmecrazy wrote: »

Okay...I'll bite.... what EXACTLY is your point?

Simply put, whether it be a bike or a pair of luxury shoes...sacrificing your general health (mental, physical, etc) for them is a troubling thought.

And here, you've went on about doing things to make yourself feel better. Is it necessary to add the joker level of makeup to feel ok about yourself?? Do you not think theres something more important at play?? Do you not think this is all a question of health? be it, mental or physical?

If you are looking to solve a problem,you treat the root of the problem, not the symptom

(And forget the straw man arguments, Ive stated numerous times ive no problem with a tasteful amount of makeup..Dont even go there..I am talking specifically about one cohort)

jigglypuffstuff · 18-05-2016 03:13PM

and makingmecrazy, make no mistake...I feel equally disheartened at the thought of men drastically altering their appearances to feel somewhat "acceptable" to themselvesOR OTHERS...we can go there if you wish too...this is not about sex, so let me make that very cleaR

One eyed Jack · 18-05-2016 03:17PM

pone2012 wrote: »

and makingmecrazy, make no mistake...I feel equally disheartened at the thought of men drastically altering their appearances to feel somewhat "acceptable" to themselvesOR OTHERS...we can go there if you wish too...this is not about sex, so let me make that very cleaR

I'll go there.

Why should I be bothered that anyone else would feel disheartened about how I choose to make myself look?

That's their issue surely, not mine.

makingmecrazy · 18-05-2016 03:20PM

pone2012 wrote: »

Simply put, whether it be a bike or a pair of luxury shoes...sacrificing your general health (mental, physical, etc) for them is a troubling thought.

And here, you've went on about doing things to make yourself feel better. Is it necessary to add the joker level of makeup to feel ok about yourself?? Do you not think theres something more important at play?? Do you not think this is all a question of health? be it, mental or physical?

If you are looking to solve a problem,you treat the root of the problem, not the symptom

(And forget the straw man arguments, Ive stated numerous times ive no problem with a tasteful amount of makeup..Dont even go there..I am talking specifically about one cohort)

I have no idea what you are on about, you are fixated with Batman, is that it? You have made several references to Batman now at this stage. Do you like Batman and the Joker?
Batman and the Joker have very little to do with women and make up

Also, your posts come across as pretty hostile and then the ranting about mental and physical health. Its not really all that coherent.

But, is your point that you aren't crazy about women and make up unless you get to quantify exactly how much they wear and approve it before they show their face in public?

SarahMollie · 18-05-2016 03:21PM

nelly17 wrote: »

Yup they seem to have ****ed up their faces but to each their own

This is just it though, its all a matter of degree.

The Geordie Shore girls have likely ruined their looks as certain procedures cannot be undone, like nose jobs, veneers etc. Like the skin on their lips much be so stretched, I can't see how it would return to normal even if they stopped with the fiillers now.

However, thats not to say that certain techniques can't be employed subtly and to great effect.

My group of friends are all early 30's and we dabble. Botox, Glycolic Peels, lip fillers etc, but all of the results are extremely subtle. No one has a frozen face or pornstar lips.

If anything, investing in treatments that are done well and not OTT, means that you just look really fresh and end up wearing less make up because your skin looks so good and you're not trying to cover wrinkles.

makingmecrazy · 18-05-2016 03:21PM

pone2012 wrote: »

and makingmecrazy, make no mistake...I feel equally disheartened at the thought of men drastically altering their appearances to feel somewhat "acceptable" to themselvesOR OTHERS...we can go there if you wish too...this is not about sex, so let me make that very cleaR

Huh?

Keane2baMused · 18-05-2016 03:25PM

My 95 year old granny asked us to pick up her foundation in the chemist the other day as hers had run out.

Kudos I say, beauty is timeless.

OldNotWIse · 18-05-2016 03:30PM

This entire thread has become hysterical. Are you guys and gals all having your monthlies? :P

SarahMollie · 18-05-2016 03:32PM

Keane2baMused wrote: »

My 95 year old granny asked us to pick up her foundation in the chemist the other day as hers had run out.

Kudos I say, beauty is timeless.

We had an elderly neighbour like this when I was growing up.

She fell and broke her leg one night and wouldnt let the paramedics take her out of the house until my mam went in and got her lipstick for her.

She was a very proud lady.

jigglypuffstuff · 18-05-2016 03:33PM

pone2012 wrote: »

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'll go there.

Why should I be bothered that anyone else would feel disheartened about how I choose to make myself look?

That's their issue surely, not mine.

Whos asking you to be bothered?? You posted in this thread, i didnt ask you too...and my issue isnt with the individual at all...its the projected belief that we need to change our appearance to be acceptable...both to society, and ourselves, apparently

makingmecrazy wrote: »

I have no idea what you are on about, you are fixated with Batman, is that it? You have made several references to Batman now at this stage. Do you like Batman and the Joker?
Batman and the Joker have very little to do with women and make up

Also, your posts come across as pretty hostile and then the ranting about mental and physical health. Its not really all that coherent.

But, is your point that you aren't crazy about women and make up unless you get to quantify exactly how much they wear and approve it before they show their face in public?

My point is I think its problematic that people feel the need to change their appearance that much...to be acceptable to themselves, or others. it speaks absolute volume about the state of peoples perception of themselves

For what must be the twentieth time, i couldn't care less about someone wearing a bit of makeup to compliment their features...how many more times need I say it? I am talking about extreme cases, which seem to be on the upsurge....and quite frankly I couldn't care less about them either..do as you please I don't go around slating others....I'm talking about what this represents..GOT IT? or is that still to difficult to understand

It has nothing to do with approval, or quantifying anything....stop dancing around the point and throwing sly, useless digs..its getting repetitive

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 18-05-2016 03:34PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

This entire thread has become hysterical. Are you guys and gals all having your monthlies? :P

Leave him alone, he can't help it if he has a heavy flow and a wide set mangina

Letree · 18-05-2016 03:40PM

Candie wrote: »

Generally, as a rule of thumb, if the question "Why do women do this?" occurs to you, you can assume the answer is "Because they want to, and they don't care how you feel about it".

"Why do men shave/grow beards?"
"Because they want to"
"But...I don't like it!"
"They don't care what you like, Candie, they're not doing it for you"
"Don't be silly, obviously their only motivation is to attract me and others of my kind! Because evolution!"
"Eh, no. They like how it looks on themselves"
"But I don't like it"
"Once more Candie, they don't care what you like"
"Why not?"
"Because you're not the centre of their world"
"They should still stop doing it. I don't approve"
"Nobody cares what you approve of"

It seems hard for people to grasp that their opinion ≠ universal truth.

A man that grows a beard generally does it because he thinks it makes him look better. Better to who is the question and the answer will be for both himself any anyone he may encounter in his day to day life. I think makeup for women is the same.

Foxtrol · 18-05-2016 03:44PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Because most people aren't so interested in telling other people their own minds as some men on here (and let's be honest it is men, so they can hardly claim they're being picked on!).

I’m not telling them their own minds, I’m saying I don’t understand/believe the statement and would like them to elaborate so I can change my mind.

If ‘I do it for me’ makes so much sense it would be great if poster’s stop dodging my questions.

Your own claims that we should be worried about women wearing makeup and trying to tie that in with eating disorders are the kind of claims I'd be thinking one should be wary of. You either have no sense of proportion, or you know exactly what you're doing and you're trying to hide your personal subjective feelings about women wearing or doing anything you don't approve of, behind an objective "concern for society". I don't need a bullshìt detector to see that for what it is.

Oh, I never said they weren’t different proportions but the logic is the same.

If someone was starving themselves and said ‘I’m doing this for me’, then I doubt people would just brush it under the carpet. My earlier example of female friends who complain about exhaustion impacting their health, when they feel the need (whether it is for themselves or others) to get up an hour earlier every morning so they can look the part for work. Similarly, we’ve heard examples of women who wont let them boyfriends see them without makeup and I’ve experience in my own family of someone who wont leave the house without their makeup done.

I understand it’s not the same intensity as eating disorders but do you honestly think the above is healthy?

If I were to apply your line of thinking to the most benign social interaction I can think of:

The girl that served me behind the counter in Centra yesterday morning, pricked the palm of my hand with something as she was handing me back my change. I looked down and saw she'd talon shaped nails with eggshell pink and swarovski crystals. Thinking out loud before I could stop myself I remarked "Your nails are fantastic". I'd say she wished she was wearing makeup on her face at that moment because she went berry red with embarrassment. Realising what I'd said, I went berry red with embarrassment and all! :pac: Shuffled out of there fairly quickly!

According to your logic, she must have been wearing nails to impress me then (and only me of course, because your mindset is that she actually gave two fcuks what I thought and my opinion should matter to her, right?) and yet she was embarrassed when I was impressed. According to your logic, she should be "grateful" I was impressed, and yet she wasn't! How dare she, the stuck up so and so, right? :pac:

You can see why that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, right? She wasn't doing anything to impress me, she wasn't doing anything with the aim of impressing anyone else, she had just done it because she liked it, and me making a point of it is what actually made her self-conscious about them! Sure, they were completely impractical, but I imagine for her they were a fun idea at the time, and you're honestly going to criticise something that's a completely harmless hobby with temporary effects, and compare that to an eating disorder?

Sure, you carry on trying to tell people that your concern is for society, and I have no doubt you'll eventually meet someone dumb enough to believe that nonsense. Meanwhile, I'm fairly sure not too many other people will actually give two fcuks, because they have more important things on their own minds.

I simply don’t believe that she would regularly do it if she was sitting at home by herself, like I don’t believe that people regularly put on full makeup, false hair, eyelashes, and uncomfortable clothes to sit at home by themselves. If they were doing it ‘for themselves’ they would.

One eyed Jack · 18-05-2016 03:53PM

pone2012 wrote: »

Whos asking you to be bothered?? You posted in this thread, i didnt ask you too...and my issue isnt with the individual at all...its the projected belief that we need to change our appearance to be acceptable...both to society, and ourselves, apparently

That would be your projected belief though, and in spite of many people disagreeing with you, it's a belief you seem determined to continue projecting.

What's the point in starting a thread asking for people's opinions if you were determined to project your own beliefs from the get-go, in spite of evidence presented to the contrary?

Of course I'm going to change my appearance to be acceptable to myself, I'd look like shyte otherwise in all fairness. But whether other people think I look like shyte or not is entirely their own issue to deal with. That's what you don't seem to be getting.

DivingDuck · 18-05-2016 03:53PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I simply don’t believe that she would regularly do it if she was sitting at home by herself, like I don’t believe that people regularly put on full makeup, false hair, eyelashes, and uncomfortable clothes to sit at home by themselves. If they were doing it ‘for themselves’ they would.

Firstly, I do believe people do this.

Secondly, in the cases of those who don't wear it solely for themselves, would "people who wear makeup wear it to gain the appreciation of people who appreciate people wearing makeup" satisfy you?

dont bother · 18-05-2016 03:54PM

for all the ones actually going hell for leather with the makeup and tan etc...
you may be on here saying "oh i do it for me, and nobody else".... that's fine... and as you say "not many would ACTUALLY give a sh!t"... they wouldnt give a sh!t, but keep in mind, if you look like a clown you're going to get laughed at. maybe not to your face, but you need to use this thread as a wake-up call that you may have gone too far.

you are not ever going to be some mad american celebrity - you are a normal irish girl, and those who plaster on all of this tat are obviously trying to appropriate the culture of something else they are not.

either way - you ARE getting judged and laughed at, it's natural human condition....

just remember that the next time you think "i'm doing this for me" - why? do you like getting secretly laughed at and judged for looking clownish or really rough like a Chola?

Boom_Bap · 18-05-2016 03:57PM

Letree wrote: »

A man that grows a beard generally does it because he thinks it makes him look better. Better to who is the question and the answer will be for both himself any anyone he may encounter in his day to day life. I think makeup for women is the same.

I grow a beard because I'm a lazy f*cker.

One eyed Jack · 18-05-2016 04:08PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Oh, I never said they weren’t different proportions but the logic is the same.

If someone was starving themselves and said ‘I’m doing this for me’, then I doubt people would just brush it under the carpet. My earlier example of female friends who complain about exhaustion impacting their health, when they feel the need (whether it is for themselves or others) to get up an hour earlier every morning so they can look the part for work. Similarly, we’ve heard examples of women who wont let them boyfriends see them without makeup and I’ve experience in my own family of someone who wont leave the house without their makeup done.

I understand it’s not the same intensity as eating disorders but do you honestly think the above is healthy?

I can see where you're coming from (so at least I'm genuinely not trying to be obtuse here), but it would depend entirely upon circumstances. Sometimes there are reasons to have legitimate concerns, and sometimes, it's just a case of "I do not approve, so you must change your behaviour/appearance to suit me". Often times people's "concerns" are more of the latter than the former, particularly when it comes to random strangers that happen to pass within their peripheral vision on that day or night or whatever.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I simply don’t believe that she would regularly do it if she was sitting at home by herself, like I don’t believe that people regularly put on full makeup, false hair, eyelashes, and uncomfortable clothes to sit at home by themselves. If they were doing it ‘for themselves’ they would.

Ahh loads of 'em do!

Seriously? :pac:

Foxtrol · 18-05-2016 04:09PM

DivingDuck wrote: »

Firstly, I do believe people do this.

Secondly, in the cases of those who don't wear it solely for themselves, would "people who wear makeup wear it to gain the appreciation of people who appreciate people wearing makeup" satisfy you?

Thanks for that reasoned response.

Outside from a very rare situation, I don’t believe people do it for themselves but I would agree with the second part of your statement.

Similarly, you could say people wear wonder bras to gain appreciation of people who like cleavage, wear hair extension to gain the appreciation of people who like longer hair, grow beards to gain the appreciation of people who like beards, pick a certain uncomfortable outfits for the appreciation of people who like that style (hopefully not all at the same time). It’s human nature.

dar100 · 18-05-2016 04:17PM

makingmecrazy wrote: »

I'm not sure you know what self esteem is if you think taking make up off has anything to do with it.

No, no... it's the putting on of it, that has something to do with it:D:D:D:D:D

FizzleSticks · 18-05-2016 04:20PM

This post has been deleted.

Foxtrol · 18-05-2016 04:22PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from (so at least I'm genuinely not trying to be obtuse here), but it would depend entirely upon circumstances. Sometimes there are reasons to have legitimate concerns, and sometimes, it's just a case of "I do not approve, so you must change your behaviour/appearance to suit me". Often times people's "concerns" are more of the latter than the former, particularly when it comes to random strangers that happen to pass within their peripheral vision on that day or night or whatever.

What circumstance would it be deemed as ok for someone to refuse to leave the house without makeup (even in cases of a medical emergency)?

If a grown man refused to leave the house without putting on a clown mask people would think he had issues, you wouldn’t get responses that ‘ah, he’s doing it for himself’. Somehow society has brainwashed us to believe that it is ok to be so obsessed that we look a certain way all logic falls away and we believe that we’re doing it for ourselves.

Ahh loads of 'em do!

Seriously? :pac:

If this is the case then what do they gain from it? If you heard a guy went home by himself and spent time and money to dress up in uncomfortable costumes and sit alone, what would you think?

Seeing as nobodys asked the question

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