The inevitable demise of Lord Ramsey Bolton (Book and TV Show)

JustShon · 17-05-2016 03:59PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Nice. Maybe they could do it at the same bit of rock Ned did the first guy.

I'd really love a call-back like that.

Paddy Cow · 17-05-2016 04:53PM

intheclouds wrote: »

Course, if Sansa becomes Wardeness of the North then perhaps she could strip Ramsay of his lands and title and leave him maimed and low born?

Sansa will only become Wardeness of the North if they kill Rickon. Plus there might be a letter floating about from Rob which legitimises Jon, which would make him the new Lord of Winterfell.

ricero · 17-05-2016 05:11PM

I have a theory that Ramsey being the ultimate bastard, that he will help the nights king get his troops through the wall. Absurd i know.

intheclouds · 17-05-2016 07:21PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Sansa will only become Wardeness of the North if they kill Rickon. Plus there might be a letter floating about from Rob which legitimises Jon, which would make him the new Lord of Winterfell.

Does Warden of the North only pass through the male line? Presumably Bran is ahead of Rickon if so.

Will Jon be needing anyone to legitimise him after the rest of the Tower of Joy reveal?

Links234 · 17-05-2016 07:27PM

Sir Twenty Goodmen will turn on him.

razorblunt wrote: »

they never get the death they deserve.

Meryn Trant did.

Ben Gadot · 17-05-2016 07:50PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Why does everyone assume Jon beats him one on one in a sword fight? Has Jon ever been shown to be a master swordsman?

Is it because he has Longclaw?

He did beat a "general" of the Night's King to be fair.

He also seemed to be the one tasked with teaching other NW recruits how to fight with a sword such as Pip, Grenn, Olly and Sam. Tyrion himself refers to the good fortune Jon had growing up with a sword in his hand as opposed to your typical bum recruited.

So Jon is highly accomplished and once more is highly tried in one to one combat over the years than the Bastard of the Dreadfort, whose game is more insidious.

Not saying Ramsay is a bum at one to one combat but Jon is a war vet in comparison to him.

Mike Litoris · 17-05-2016 09:00PM

It'll involve Theon chopping off his bollox, Ghost eating it, Sansa sticking a hot poker up his ass then maybe one of the Wildling giants using him as a lump hammer.

DeadHand · 17-05-2016 11:15PM

JustShon wrote: »

Or maybe we could see some of her father in her if he's captured and sentenced to death.

Picture the scene, Brienne offers to execute him for her. Sansa refuses and takes the sword herself: "The one who passes the sentence should swing the sword." or whatever Ned's exact words from Ep. 1 were.

Sansa would be physically incapable of the feat.

It takes a monstrous amount of force to behead a human being cleanly and a seriously heavy weapon. If you remember, Theon had great difficulty in beheading Rodrik and you'd have to think pre-Ramsey Theon was many times physically stronger than Sansa and, unlike her, trained with weapons.

All idle speculation anyway- no doubt in my mind that Ramsey will fall in single combat with Grandmaester Pycelle.

flazio · 18-05-2016 07:13AM

It'll never happen but I'd love to see him treated like that man who tried to poison Dany, stripped naked, tied to a horse and forced to follow it through a desert with no water.

Tazzimus · 18-05-2016 10:12AM

DeadHand wrote: »

Sansa would be physically incapable of the feat.

It takes a monstrous amount of force to behead a human being cleanly and a seriously heavy weapon. If you remember, Theon had great difficulty in beheading Rodrik and you'd have to think pre-Ramsey Theon was many times physically stronger than Sansa and, unlike her, trained with weapons.

All idle speculation anyway- no doubt in my mind that Ramsey will fall in single combat with Grandmaester Pycelle.

They also go on about Valerian swords being exceptionally sharp etc so might not need as much force to remove his head.

Ghost, Sansa or Theon to kill ramsay imo. Or a combo of the three.

alchemist33 · 18-05-2016 10:33AM

DeadHand wrote: »

Sansa would be physically incapable of the feat.

It takes a monstrous amount of force to behead a human being cleanly and a seriously heavy weapon. If you remember, Theon had great difficulty in beheading Rodrik and you'd have to think pre-Ramsey Theon was many times physically stronger than Sansa and, unlike her, trained with weapons.

All idle speculation anyway- no doubt in my mind that Ramsey will fall in single combat with Grandmaester Pycelle.

I'd be happy enough for her to use a breadknife.

quad_red · 18-05-2016 10:38AM

Are there other Bolton's beside Ramsay left?

Cos whatever happens the number one priority for the Starks should be to burn House Bolton off the face of Westeros.

JustShon · 18-05-2016 12:00PM

DeadHand wrote: »

Sansa would be physically incapable of the feat.

It takes a monstrous amount of force to behead a human being cleanly and a seriously heavy weapon. If you remember, Theon had great difficulty in beheading Rodrik and you'd have to think pre-Ramsey Theon was many times physically stronger than Sansa and, unlike her, trained with weapons.

All idle speculation anyway- no doubt in my mind that Ramsey will fall in single combat with Grandmaester Pycelle.

If an executioner's weapon was used she could do it. Yes the weapon would be very heavy but that's the point of an executioner's axe or sword, it's not designed for combat. You lift it over your head and let gravity do the work.

That said I certainly wouldn't mind if she took a chop, almost killed him and he had to live in agony for a few seconds while she took a second or third swing at his neck.

jebidiah · 18-05-2016 02:54PM

I imagine he will see a grizzly end on the show. Something to pay fans off for all the **** he has done.

But, I think it would probably be out of character for the Starks to do something nasty to him, I can see the Lord of Winterfell, who ever it is at the time, simply having him beheaded or hung.

Sansa probably wouldn't be able to do it physically, but Brienne is her sworn sword, and has half of Ned Stark's sword at her hip. I can see her being the one to step forward to do it. Jon would "pass the sentence and swing the sword" but he wont be Lord of Winterfell, and I think Rikon is ****ed, leaving Sansa.

Also, I don't think Jon is so amazing and Ramsey so crap that a fight between them would be onesided.

We saw Jon fight someone similar to Ramsey in Crasters Keep. Ramsey fights with short weapons, close to his enemy, unarmored. He is definitely a skilled fighter and will cause serious damage in the fight to come.

EagererBeaver · 18-05-2016 10:14PM

Ben Gadot wrote: »

He did beat a "general" of the Night's King to be fair.

He also seemed to be the one tasked with teaching other NW recruits how to fight with a sword such as Pip, Grenn, Olly and Sam. Tyrion himself refers to the good fortune Jon had growing up with a sword in his hand as opposed to your typical bum recruited.

So Jon is highly accomplished and once more is highly tried in one to one combat over the years than the Bastard of the Dreadfort, whose game is more insidious.

Not saying Ramsay is a bum at one to one combat but Jon is a war vet in comparison to him.

I disagree. Jon, like all sons of noblemen, is trained. Ramsay will also have been trained, albeit with less discipline than Jon. There is nothing to suggest Jon is the next Arthur Dayne - he can fight but "highly accomplished" is less pushing it and more giving it a great big kick. He trains the others in the Watch precisely because he had training. They're thieves and sons of bakers and carpenters.

As for killing the WW, that was down to luck rather than swordfighting skill. Sam also killed one ffs.

A Primal Nut · 19-05-2016 12:48AM

Judging how Game Of Thrones usually goes, he'll probably die peacefully in his sleep of natural causes.

We spent three seasons waiting for the Starks to get revenge on Joffrey and in the end he got poisoned in what was mostly a political maneuver.

CMOTDibbler · 19-05-2016 04:03PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I disagree. Jon, like all sons of noblemen, is trained. Ramsay will also have been trained, albeit with less discipline than Jon. There is nothing to suggest Jon is the next Arthur Dayne - he can fight but "highly accomplished" is less pushing it and more giving it a great big kick. He trains the others in the Watch precisely because he had training. They're thieves and sons of bakers and carpenters.

I'm not so sure that Ramsay would have been trained. After all he was the original Reek and was barely tolerated. His use of knives would indicate a certain street fighter experience but Jon is trained and battle hardened from his time beyond the wall and defendiing Castle Black.

I'd say advantage Jon in a straight fight.

Tazzimus · 19-05-2016 04:13PM

Ramsay was "trained" by the original Reek and not a master of arms like Rodrik Cassell so I'd have Jon in the bastardbowl

Not to say he wouldn't be dangerous as he'd have a wild unpredictable style

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-05-2016 04:25PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

Ramsay was "trained" by the original Reek and not a master of arms like Rodrik Cassell so I'd have Jon in the bastardbowl

Not to say he wouldn't be dangerous as he'd have a wild unpredictable style

There was some recent fight of Jon's (maybe at Craster's Keep, can't recall) where he seemed to get caught on the hop by a dirty move as well, he still, somehow, has a bit of a blind spot for that sort of stuff I think. Physically it seems like he's probably bigger and stronger, he has more experience in face-to-face combat and he's probably better trained and seems to have a strong natural aptitude, in a fair fight he'd have the edge most likely, but therein lies the problem :pac:

RobbingBandit · 19-05-2016 04:37PM

TV version. Littlefinger will slip him the dagger rather than Jon or Sansa striking a blow. Petyr has to earn his way back in with Sansa some how, what better way than killing her evil husband.

Jon will rescue Rickon rather than fight Ramsay, hope I'm wrong mind you as Bastardbowl is one of the more fun fan theories to look forward too but I just think Littlefinger has to make up for whoring out Sansa like he did and killing Ramsay would do just that.

Books version Ramsay took off Ser Rodricks arm with a machete, Jon has a Valarian steel sword so I'd give if to Jon in the battle if they do cross swords the book is too far from the tv show now to really know what will happen until it is out.

Lunger · 19-05-2016 04:58PM

Ramsey gets Om Nommed to death by Ghost or his own warged up dogs. We're headed into the back end of the entire show so I expect deaths to be more thematic.

A Primal Nut · 19-05-2016 05:33PM

Maybe he'll pull a Lannister and become a sympathetic character over time. Remember how much we hated Jaime and Cersei in season 1?

I'm joking, obviously it won't happen with Ramsey. But we've been here plenty of times before expecting gruesome deaths to give the viewer the satisfaction of revenge and it never comes.

Except with Arya which is why she used to be favorite character as she actually got revenge, with her list and so on. Not so interested in her story over the last couple of seasons but hopefully it will start to make sense soon.

BoJack Horseman · 19-05-2016 05:36PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Remember how much we hated Jaime and Cersei in season 1?

'hated'?

That hasn't gone away!

A Primal Nut · 19-05-2016 05:42PM

Well Jaime in particular has become something of a good guy in most people's eyes, pretty much since he explained why he killed the Mad King which was a big turning point for the character. Ever since then he hasn't done anything particularly evil. I think most people got behind him trying to get his daughter back in the last season.

Cersei with her losing her two kids and the walk of shame and so on has garnered enough sympathy where I find myself cheering for her against the High Sparrow; maybe just because I hate the high sparrow so much. Her torturing Sansa seems like a distant memory now. I guess different people will have different views of the character.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-05-2016 05:48PM

It's weird, my boyfriend had only seen the show in bits and pieces, so he's been re-watching the whole thing while this season is on. He made some comment about Tyrion being the only decent Lannister and I said 'Sure Jaime's not the worst at all' and got angrily reminded that 'he pushed a little kid out a window so he wouldn't get caught fcuking his sister!', as far as he's concerned that's new information

EagererBeaver · 19-05-2016 07:30PM

The TV show has ruined Jaime. Boring, no motives, no depth. His angle in the books is much more layered and complex, thus making him a far more interesting character.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-05-2016 07:35PM

You're always going to get more layered and complex impressions of the characters with the benefit of an inner monologue that has them explaining their motivations, fears, etc. On TV in general and with Jaime in particular it wouldn't make sense for him to have him constantly talking about his feelings.

For my money Jaime's transition/adaptation is one of the better done ones

EagererBeaver · 19-05-2016 08:03PM

Ruben Fluffy Sandlot wrote: »

You're always going to get more layered and complex impressions of the characters with the benefit of an inner monologue that has them explaining their motivations, fears, etc. On TV in general and with Jaime in particular it wouldn't make sense for him to have him constantly talking about his feelings.

For my money Jaime's transition/adaptation is one of the better done ones

Nah, they've completely changed his character. They've turned a character embarking on a redemption mission into one whose only motivation appears to be between Cersei's legs.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-05-2016 08:11PM

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Nah, they've completely changed his character. They've turned a character embarking on a redemption mission into one whose only motivation appears to be between Cersei's legs.

Actually, yeah, that switcheroo of who rejected who when he got back to KL was just bizarrely bad, completely forgot that. That whole season was a bit of a hot mess though AFAIR, not bothered watching it since.

Sleepy · 20-05-2016 08:25AM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

TV version. Littlefinger will slip him the dagger rather than Jon or Sansa striking a blow. Petyr has to earn his way back in with Sansa some how, what better way than killing her evil husband.

Jon will rescue Rickon rather than fight Ramsay, hope I'm wrong mind you as Bastardbowl is one of the more fun fan theories to look forward too but I just think Littlefinger has to make up for whoring out Sansa like he did and killing Ramsay would do just that.

I strongly suspect you have the right of this.

The inevitable demise of Lord Ramsey Bolton (Book and TV Show)

Comments