The inevitable demise of Lord Ramsey Bolton (Book and TV Show)

granty1987

I think we could be seeing Arya becoming The Ghost of Winterfell and go around sticking people with the pointy end on the sly ala Jaquan in Harranhall. Scrap that actually, she'll only look to kill Bolton as her mission dictates he must die for his crimes.

The test that is set for her is not killing him which she could do easily, but rather facing her past & family and sticking to "a girl is no one" and leaving them to return to Bravos.

The episode ends with Jon back in Winterfell in the aftermath, sulking in the corner.

JustShon

Sleepy wrote: »

I strongly suspect you have the right of this.

I strongly hope for this actually.

I think it'd be fitting for Ramsey to die by Littlefinger's hand just because his last realisation wouldn't be that the good guys have won and triumphed over his evil ways but rather that he was just never smart enough to play with the big boys when it comes to being an evil pr1ck in Westeros.

I can just picture Littlefinger's sly smile as he quietly knifes Ramsey.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Cal me perverse, but I kind of dislike the way that Ramsay is being set up to fail. Hear me out.

One of the shows great strengths is its unpredictability. However, Ramsay's behaviour is becoming alarmingly predictable. That in itself is fine: the problem is that characters around him don't seem to ever twig this. The only rationale I can see for this is to establish him as the big bad, the reason for which is to have someone for the audience to hate: and this can only meant that this person is doomed to narrative demise.

But, I don't know about other people, but my disdain ain't limited to Ramsay. The Boltons as a whole are pretty rotten, the Freys are almost as bad, and the Lannisters not much better. We have had several series to get accustomed to this fact: but it hasn't been hammered home nearly as heavily as with Ramsay. Like Arya I feel that the on-screen catharsis of seeing the downfall of certain individuals is being robbed by the many-faced God of D&D, who want to focus our attention solely on Ramsay.

We see characters who are meant to be good having quite long downfalls (Edd, Robb, Stannis, etc.) while villains have downfalls that last at most 30 seconds (Joffrey, Roose, Myranda).

What would make great television is a conflict with Ramsay that doesn't feel predetermined from the get-go, but where the result becomes increasingly clear, to both the audience and character in question. If you could put the Freys into that equation as well, all the better (but after "I'm so evil I feed my Frey step-mom to my dogs" I doubt that that can be the case)

Sleepy

It's exactly why I can't wait for him to be killed off. He's boring.

mzungu

I expect Ramsey to repent his (many) sins and join the sparrows in Kings Landing for a lifetime of blissful poverty. There he will befriend another unlikely convert (The Mountain), and together they will spread prayer over bloodshed. Both will most likely pass on peacefully in their sleep of old age.

Tazzimus

mzungu wrote: »

I expect Ramsey to repent his (many) sins and join the sparrows in Kings Landing for a lifetime of blissful poverty. There he will befriend another unlikely convert (The Mountain), and together they will spread prayer over bloodshed. Both will most likely pass on peacefully in their sleep of old age.

Mountain's already passed on not so peacefully

mzungu

Tazzimus wrote: »

Mountain's already passed on not so peacefully

Ah, I think in comparison to the crushed skull he dished out, his season long hibernation/coma afterwards was comparatively peaceful

DeadHand

For those of you you decrying Ramsey as a "boring" character for his two-dimensionality- here is one I made earlier:

Ah, Ramsey...

In a story renowned for the moral ambiguity of its characters he is refreshingly black and white. Ramsey is simply evil and enjoys it. The casting of Iwan Rheon for the part was inspired. It somehow makes Ramsey so much more sinister that he happens to be good looking and effortlessly charming when he wants to be. Darkly charismatic.

He gets compared to Joffrey but is so much more dangerous. Joffrey, while equally sadistic, was always limited by his weakness, cowardice and stupidity. Ramsey is strong, brave and intelligent. Only Joffrey's unearned position of power made him formidable. Ramsey came from relatively nothing to become one of the most powerful men in Westeros through his own cunning and brutality. Joffrey was the most common sort of bully: if you stood up to him he wilted. Ramsey is the worse, rarer sort of bully: if you stand up to him he hits you harder.

Ramsey was and remains a compelling character partly due to his clear evil set against the unfailing moral ambiguity of most of the rest of the cast.

intheclouds

DeadHand wrote: »

For those of you you decrying Ramsey as a "boring" character for his two-dimensionality- here is one I made earlier:





Ramsey was and remains a compelling character partly due to his clear evil set against the unfailing moral ambiguity of most of the rest of the cast.

For me he is just boring and not very well acted. Too pantomime IMO. I almost feel there should be a chorus of "HE'S BEHIND YOU" when he appears on screen.

It's because he just isn't believable. Whether that's down to not great acting or not great writing I'm not sure but I can believe most other characters (even when they're quite implausible).

DeadHand

intheclouds wrote: »

For me he is just boring and not very well acted. Too pantomime IMO. I almost feel there should be a chorus of "HE'S BEHIND YOU" when he appears on screen.

It's because he just isn't believable. Whether that's down to not great acting or not great writing I'm not sure but I can believe most other characters (even when they're quite implausible).

His race is run story-wise anyway.

Shades of Stannis in his downfall: he is becoming increasingly isolated with the departure of Roose, Myranda, Sansa and Reek- just as Stannis lost Melisandre, Davos, Shireen and Selyse one way or other before he met his demise.

No way he holds onto Winterfell with so many major characters coming for him. He's hardly going to defeat or kill all of Littlefinger, Tormund, Brienne, Jon and Sansa.

He could escape- but they hardly have time to devote to following yet another story arc. Not much he could do anyway once he loses Winterfell apart from sulking back in the Dreadfort.

I'd be 90% sure he dies this season- it's just a question of how, who does him and how many significant characters he manages to take with him.

Turtyturd

intheclouds wrote: »

For me he is just boring and not very well acted. Too pantomime IMO. I almost feel there should be a chorus of "HE'S BEHIND YOU" when he appears on screen.

It's because he just isn't believable. Whether that's down to not great acting or not great writing I'm not sure but I can believe most other characters (even when they're quite implausible).

Have been saying this for ages. The actor who plays him seems more like someone playing him on a sketch show. And the gif above captures just how bad he was originally. The stupid face, and actions just completely took you out of the world and made it hard to take him serious.

I think the actor has improved and toned it down a bit since then but bad writing has kicked in and it's 'who will Ramsey kill this week?' rather than 'what would be the fallout of Ramsey killing this person?'.

intheclouds

Turtyturd wrote: »

Have been saying this for ages. The actor who plays him seems more like someone playing him on a sketch show. And the gif above captures just how bad he was originally. The stupid face, and actions just completely took you out of the world and made it hard to take him serious.

I think the actor has improved and toned it down a bit since then but bad writing has kicked in and it's 'who will Ramsey kill this week?' rather than 'what would be the fallout of Ramsey killing this person?'.

The thing is, strictly speaking Joffrey wasn't a believable character but somehow Jack Gleeson humanised him by making him jittery, a bit insecure and frustrated.

Ramsay just hasn't got it.

Links234

Sleepy wrote: »

It's exactly why I can't wait for him to be killed off. He's boring.

He's not just boring, it's that he's got the most egregious plot armour in the entire show, I found him hard to take serious after fighting off Yara and the Ironborn practically in the nip, and it's just gotten worse after that, with him and Ser Twenty Goodmen taking on entire armies unseen. Eugh..

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

intheclouds wrote: »

The thing is, strictly speaking Joffrey wasn't a believable character but somehow Jack Gleeson humanised him by making him jittery, a bit insecure and frustrated.

Ramsay just hasn't got it.

I don't mind Ramsey and I really like Ewan Rheon, to be fair I think playing the character 'straight' and serious would be worse, at least with Rheon's performance we know that he and the show aren't under any illusions that Ramsey is anything other than bizarre. Rheon is a versatile actor and I am looking forward to the possibility of him getting to do something other than murder, win, grin and repeat.

And Jack Gleeson made every actor around him look like shít for nearly his whole time on the show. It was one of the best decisions/luckiest strikes GOT ever managed, casting him. Kid was unreal. I'd say the writing for Joffrey was better than Ramsey's getting atm as well though.

I guess they're just trying to maximise the payoff when Ramsey eventually gets destroyed by emphasising how ruthless and sadistic he is, but there really is a point of diminishing returns with that. Personally I still more or less like him, mostly because I like the actor, but yeah I can really see why people are bored of him

Sleepy

My lack of patience would have nothing to do with the actor, it's the ridiculous plot armour the show writers have given him.

My reading of the two characters would have had Yara / Asha slaughtering him in a fair fight, never mind one where he's completely unarmoured. Had that face off happened in the books she'd have buried an axe in him from 10 yards away.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

My lack of patience would have nothing to do with the actor, it's the ridiculous plot armour the show writers have given him.

My reading of the two characters would have had Yara / Asha slaughtering him in a fair fight, never mind one where he's completely unarmoured. Had that face off happened in the books she'd have buried an axe in him from 10 yards away.

Ramsey in the show is a lot more high functioning than in the books. His Reek switch was great but he does seem to be a bit on the thick side in his interactions with Roose. He's not upto much as a warrior too. In the show he sees plots before they materialise and seems to be very well trained which he wasn't in the books. Not that it makes the shirtless fighting any less stupid mind you.

Conall Cernach

I'd have liked for when Ramsey stabbed Roose that the camera would have shown a dagger falling out of Roose's hand meaning that he wasn't falling for the old dutiful son routine and was just about to clear the way for his new son's succession only to be beaten to the draw. That way Roose's scheming bastard persona wouldn't have been undermined by failing to see just what a bollox Ramsey is.