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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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  • #6932
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Maybe reading Carberys annual report might give us a bit more to be optimistic about.

    Compare and Contrast. Are Carbery offering any advice on cost control and budgeting
    to farmers? I think I might be more inclined to go to Carbery for advice.

    http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/carbery-reports-increased-earnings-of-33-for-2015/


  • #6933
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Read that article earlier and thought what an arrogant ,condescending you know what mr Wolfe is

    Just read the article.
    Trying to understand it in my simple terms.
    If I buy a bale of straw for 10 Euro and sell it for 20 Euro.
    In the meantime I hear of someone else buying straw for 7 Euro in the USA.
    Does that mean I can go back to the farmer and tell him I spent 3 Euro x no of bales propping his straw price.


  • #6934
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Just read the article.
    Trying to understand it in my simple terms.
    If I buy a bale of straw for 10 Euro and sell it for 20 Euro.
    In the meantime I hear of someone else buying straw for 7 Euro.
    Does that mean I can go back to the farmer and tell him I spent 3 Euro x no of bales propping his straw price.

    Nooooooooo. He owns your farm, you merely manage it and pay yourself a fat salary. You buy straw from him with his own money and then tell him that the portion of the price you paid above the market price was you supporting his business, with his own money,even though the price you paid was less than what it cost him to produce the straw.
    Meanwhile all the other purchasers of straw are paying more for straw than you even though the sellers don't necessarily own the farm belonging to the purchaser.


  • #6935
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Read that article earlier and thought what an arrogant ,condescending you know what mr Wolfe is

    Ivory tower springs to mind

    If a co op wants farmers to produce a product at a significant loss so the co op or milk purchaser can make a significant profit ( and pay a significant salary to the Ivory tower employees ) then that is immoral and we as farmers are absolute mugs for acquiescing

    Maybe it's the age profile in the business (I'm not that far off my pension relatively) so farmers think they'll muddle on because it's all they know,the older you get the less you like change and all that and you can see the end game BUT.... No way in hell could you persuade a successor to be a mug starting out,it wouldn't be fair


  • #6936
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Milked out wrote: »
    What's the alternative tho? Run the coop at a loss? How long will that be sustainable for? I want a higher milk price as much as the next man but if the coop comes under pressure what happens then? We are all giving out but what solutions are out there, realistic ones
    Survival.

    Pay off all loans and merchant credit as fast as you can and hunker down.

    Start at your returns and work backwards to see what you can spend rather than spending and trying to find a way of paying for it.

    Reduce numbers to reduce inputs needed. I think I posted an article about the return to this in NZ a week or so back.

    Selling all late born calves here and reducing stock levels here for next winter. If, and it's a big if, Dawg is right, we may have to go back to go forward.
    Add your reply here.
    I agree with all your saying as it's within farm gate control so to speak, locked up here but have found a feed lot for culls I want rid of. I was referring to the coops. Say they pay us a higher price, post losses instead of small profits and then coop is in bother. Grand saying they didn't need to borrow but our milk still needed processing if they didn't borrow where are funds going to come from. That's why I asked what realistic alternative is their for the coop. We have no plc to back us up not that it would if their was one cos shareholders are their masters. We are where we are but what would lads do if they were in charge


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  • #6937
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭alps


    Milked out wrote: »
    What's the alternative tho? Run the coop at a loss? How long will that be sustainable for? I want a higher milk price as much as the next man but if the coop comes under pressure what happens then? We are all giving out but what solutions are out there, realistic ones

    The alternative is a structure that shares the pain and the gain...

    CEO's salary linked to milk price..

    20c 200k
    30c 300k
    40c 400k

    And so on.....Good decisions benefit all...bad decisions effect all....

    This would focus the minds of management instead of cushioned salaries, manacured pensions and playing on the new Dairy Ireland Monopoly board, collecting 500k everyt ime you pass go.....


  • #6938
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    Just flicking through the DG Annual Report and Financial Statements and I come to page 18,a paragraph on pension. The gist of it is that strong markets, an improved discount factor and risk management initiatives implemented in 2015 resulted in an increase in assets of 7m and reduction in liabilities of 8m, however this was partially offset by providing for an element of discretionary pension increases. DISCRETIONARY PENSION INCREASES.


  • #6939
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Brown Podzol wrote: »
    Just flicking through the DG Annual Report and Financial Statements and I come to page 18,a paragraph on pension. The gist of it is that strong markets, an improved discount factor and risk management initiatives implemented in 2015 resulted in an increase in assets of 7m and reduction in liabilities of 8m, however this was partially offset by providing for an element of discretionary pension increases. DISCRETIONARY PENSION INCREASES.

    Maybe someone has a link to what I'm talking about here. But apparently to top 9 genius in Dairygold shared 2.7m between in 2015, including bonuses. That's 300k on average. Obviously some more and some less. Question is what do you have to do in this country, not to get a bonus?

    Apparently Woulfe is quoted as being worried as the wages are higher elsewhere and he is afraid some of his best people might be headhunted.

    I had no idea McDonalds were paying higher wages that that, But honestly I don't think Jim need worry. Some of the lads may not be in as much demand as Jim might like to think. Maybe he needs to be more worried that the people paying his wages might go out of business as a result of producing milk at a loss.


  • #6940
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭alps


    Surely there's no risk of top class management being head hunter by other processors. .? They must be tied in by some sort of MSA... (management supply agreement)

    One that says "the company may assign or transfer or deal in any other manner with any or all of its rights and obligations under this agreement."


  • #6941
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    alps wrote: »
    The alternative is a structure that shares the pain and the gain...

    CEO's salary linked to milk price..

    20c 200k
    30c 300k
    40c 400k

    And so on.....Good decisions benefit all...bad decisions effect all....

    This would focus the minds of management instead of cushioned salaries, manacured pensions and playing on the new Dairy Ireland Monopoly board, collecting 500k everyt ime you pass go.....

    Unless they were employed under those conditions you don't have much hope of achieving that.........unless like another crowd you ''effectively fire'' them.

    There's a motorway to dublin at the back of my house and it's bumper to bumper at 6-7am so there is a recovery out there and those well qualified guys will move.


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  • #6942
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Unless they were employed under those conditions you don't have much hope of achieving that.........unless like another crowd you ''effectively fire'' them.

    There's a motorway to dublin at the back of my house and it's bumper to bumper at 6-7am so there is a recovery out there and those well qualified guys will move.
    Move where? Wolfe was on the radio this morning defending their level of pay saying Coca cola are paying the same in cork. Is employment going to be going up in coca cola if senior management wages is linked to milk price? Are they going to sack management in Coca-Cola and hire these guys? Where does it stop?


  • #6943
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,259 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Let them off up the motorway.
    Dairygold profits down 34%
    Carbery profits up 33%
    Dairygold make €19M profit.
    Carbery make €25M profit
    Dairygold valued at €315M
    Carbery valued at €260M Note this is Carbery and does nor include the value of the four West Cork Coops.

    I'm only started.
    OH yeah,
    Dairygold pays lowest milk price in the country
    Carbery pays highest milk price in the country.


  • #6944
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Milked out wrote: »
    Add your reply here.
    I agree with all your saying as it's within farm gate control so to speak, locked up here but have found a feed lot for culls I want rid of. I was referring to the coops. Say they pay us a higher price, post losses instead of small profits and then coop is in bother. Grand saying they didn't need to borrow but our milk still needed processing if they didn't borrow where are funds going to come from. That's why I asked what realistic alternative is their for the coop. We have no plc to back us up not that it would if their was one cos shareholders are their masters. We are where we are but what would lads do if they were in charge

    It's easy to say but difficult to do, R&D to find higher margin products.

    Selling powder is simple and relatively cheap and risk free and we are experienced in doing it.

    Targeting higher margin products is expensive and risky and constant. I'm not sure smaller processors would be well equipped enough to invest and manage an R&D of the size and cost necessary to go that route, Carbery being the exception to that rule and proving how rare it is.

    One way or another, we are looking at lower prices for milk but our 'exceptional' management and staff will have to share some of the burden.

    All the pain cannot be fenced in behind the farm gate and all the gains on the other. The supply system is badly broken here.


  • #6945
    atlantic mist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭atlantic mist


    If we are selling to commodity markets why the need for such big high paid management teams, all they seem to b able to manage is to process the milk and dump it on market at any given price they lack imagination we all knew over supply would b an issue post quota, were milking the cows the machines are doing the processing what is management job .....all current management are easily replaced they are not anything special and the base during difficult period just highlight to us what our management teams are made of and what planning they have done for scenarios like we have currently.


  • #6946
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Dont get too excited about carbery results , a number of accounting reconciliation s in that.which is better a ceo on 100k returning 20 cent or a ceo on 500 returning 23 to suppliers


  • #6947
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    keep going wrote: »
    Dont get too excited about carbery results , a number of accounting reconciliation s in that.which is better a ceo on 100k returning 20 cent or a ceo on 500 returning 23 to suppliers

    Glanbia CEO is getting more than 100k.


  • #6948
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Water John wrote: »
    Let them off up the motorway.
    Dairygold profits down 34%
    Carbery profits up 33%
    Dairygold make 19M profit.
    Carbery make 25M profit
    Dairygold valued at 315M
    Carbery valued at 260M Note this is Carbery and does nor include the value of the four West Cork Coops.

    I'm only started.
    OH yeah,
    Dairygold pays lowest milk price in the country
    Carbery pays highest milk price in the country.
    Add your reply here.
    Do you think it's just the plant on balineen returning that price? The investments Carbery have made outside of milk processing are likely to be helping there and fair play to them.


  • #6949
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    keep going wrote: »
    Dont get too excited about carbery results , a number of accounting reconciliation s in that.which is better a ceo on 100k returning 20 cent or a ceo on 500 returning 23 to suppliers

    Which is better a CEO on 250k returning 25 c or a CEO on 600k returning 20 c?


  • #6950
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Milked out wrote: »
    Add your reply here.
    Do you think it's just the plant on balineen returning that price? The investments Carbery have made outside of milk processing are likely to be helping there and fair play to them.


    It is reported that the investments that one CEO has made has caused him to say that his solution to the Co Ops current difficulties is to cut the price of milk to 17c. Who cares how Carbery are able to make a return to its members. The fact is they are consistently able to do it, while some other Co Ops are consistently able to make a bags of things. While all the time being cheered on by the ICOS and up until now the farm organisations.


  • #6951
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭alps


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    It is reported that the investments that one CEO has made has caused him to say that his solution to the Co Ops current difficulties is to cut the price of milk to 17c. Who cares how Carbery are able to make a return to its members. The fact is they are consistently able to do it, while some other Co Ops are consistently able to make a bags of things. While all the time being cheered on by the ICOS and up until now the farm organisations.


    And by the farmers themselves to be fair. ..


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  • #6952
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    alps wrote: »
    And by the farmers themselves to be fair. ..

    Yes true but there has been a lot of money spent in swaying farmer opinion using PR consultants.

    http://www.prca.ie/files/award_two.pdf

    Under the principles of the McKenna judgment, I'm not sure a lot of these so call democratically made decisions would even hold up.


  • #6953
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Which is better a CEO on 250k returning 25 c or a CEO on 600k returning 20 c?
    But he's returning for the private shareholders that's all that matters...


  • #6954
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    But he's returning for the private shareholders that's all that matters...

    Who are the majority of shareholders though?
    Don't like shares though.Which puts more money in your pocket shares or milk price?
    Shareprice before your supplier of milk.;)


  • #6955
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭alps


    Looks like nearly all countries are pushing on into oblivion....being led by yous truly...

    Reckless abandon....


  • #6956
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    atlantic mist wrote: »
    If we are selling to commodity markets why the need for such big high paid management teams, all they seem to b able to manage is to process the milk and dump it on market at any given price they lack imagination we all knew over supply would b an issue post quota, were milking the cows the machines are doing the processing what is management job .....all current management are easily replaced they are not anything special and the base during difficult period just highlight to us what our management teams are made of and what planning they have done for scenarios like we have currently.

    Helluva post!


  • #6957
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    I see on the IFJ that farmers on the boards of the dairy co-ops are getting about 30,000 Euro per year.
    No wonder they won't open their mouths.
    If I was getting that i'd be fairly quiet too and that's the truth.


  • #6958
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,259 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Dairygold Board members getting €35K.
    Carbery Board members getting €17K.

    Don't know added expenses for either.
    Some Directors also on other Boards. eg two Mid Cork boys as per The Dealer today. Don't know payments and expenses for these.

    Dairygold going south.
    Carbery going north.


  • #6959
    red bull
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭red bull


    Water John wrote: »
    Dairygold Board members getting €35K.
    Carbery Board members getting €17K.

    Don't know added expenses for either.
    Some Directors also on other Boards. eg two Mid Cork boys as per The Dealer today. Don't know payments and expenses for these.

    Dairygold going south.
    Carbery going north.

    Farmers are just fools, ( sorry slaves, ) who work hard to keep others in well paid jobs


  • #6960
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,458 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    keep going wrote: »
    Dont get too excited about carbery results , a number of accounting reconciliation s in that.which is better a ceo on 100k returning 20 cent or a ceo on 500 returning 23 to suppliers
    Water John wrote: »
    Dairygold Board members getting €35K.
    Carbery Board members getting €17K.

    Don't know added expenses for either.
    Some Directors also on other Boards. eg two Mid Cork boys as per The Dealer today. Don't know payments and expenses for these.

    Dairygold going south.
    Carbery going north.


    The question is answered......

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • #6961
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Water John wrote: »
    Dairygold Board members getting €35K.
    Carbery Board members getting €17K.

    Don't know added expenses for either.
    Some Directors also on other Boards. eg two Mid Cork boys as per The Dealer today. Don't know payments and expenses for these.

    Dairygold going south.
    Carbery going north.

    If you added up all the remuneration and experiences some of these serial board men are on some of them must be pulling in well north of 100k for doing their civic duty representing the rest of us. Your Hart would bleed for them if they have to take a 10% pay cut


This discussion has been closed.
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