Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I think the real problem is that some are far too willing to be seen to be taking the politically cotrect approach of supporting management and are far too willing to dismiss any questioning voice. Remember how people who originally suggested there might have been a problem in Ifa or who suggested all might not have been well in reox, we're dismissed as some kind of conspiracy theorist? Remember how some here were quick to criticise French farmers for protesting? For some reason we have become very soft? I have my own theories why. But as a group if we don't wake up and realise we are been made mugs of by spin and more spin.indusyry will continue to have a field day at the expense of farmer's.

you mean farmer apathy and more farmer apathy.....wake up and smell the coffee Ed, Blaming someone else is just a cop out, get your toes down from the chimney

visatorro

Dawggone wrote: »

Lads on tillage work dairy also, but never milk. Hired in contract milkers and fired full-time dairy workers. Milkers now €30/milking (:))...
The flying herd was more of a reaction to fertility issues due to schmallenberg, but it facilitated the firing of dairy workers and simplified the system, which coincided with price drop. Iykwim.
However I think it's not sustainable but will roll with it until price rises again.

Lads on dairy walk were more crippled with robots than labour. One guy losing €18k/month.

What are your opinions on robots on a grass based system Dawggone? Are robots the primary problem on these farms or is it a combination of milk price and bad management? Also how are these places still going?

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

Trying flying herd for a year here as have over 40 maidens, if only heifer calves would fly out the gate:-) great value for calved heifers atm. My main reason, stay one man operation while upping output

You're not flying 'till you're buying.

Until replacements get expensive it's a no brainer. Knowing when to buy is the trick. Duck and dive.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Until replacements get expensive it's a no brainer. Knowing when to buy is the trick. Duck and dive.

Does the average cost of replacements in a given year actually make all that much of a difference?

I would have thought once you factor out the replacement rearing cost and net off the cull then amortise over 5 lactations or whatever the risk was more in performance than in the price paid.

Having said that it sounds as though springers fluctuate more with you than here.

Presumably you can bull everything to beef as well with that setup?

Dawggone

visatorro wrote: »

What are your opinions on robots on a grass based system Dawggone? Are robots the primary problem on these farms or is it a combination of milk price and bad management? Also how are these places still going?

Tough questions Visa.

I know squat about robots tbh but anything that adds cost without increasing/ multiplying competitiveness is surely a non runner.

I think their problems stem from 30yrs of being spoonfed a comfortable margin dims their business acumen. Wide open to persuade themselves that their system/direction *should* pay.

Maybe I'm wrong...

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Does the average cost of replacements in a given year actually make all that much of a difference?

I would have thought once you factor out the replacement rearing cost and net off the cull then amortise over 5 lactations or whatever the risk was more in performance than in the price paid.

Having said that it sounds as though springers fluctuate more with you than here.

Presumably you can bull everything to beef as well with that setup?

Average lactation length in France is 2.4. lactations...

My cost for producing replacements (walk into parlor for first milking) is just over €1500/hd. If you include wastage for sprinters that walk into parlor for 2nd lactation, first milking, then cost goes to €1720/hd.
I can buy fresh calved springers for €700...


Beef bulls here, resting atm. Real work later...just keeping it simple.

The hassle of breeding. Tail painting. Recording heats. Etc etc etc.
keeping it simple.



Breeding stock are directly related to milk price and to a certain extent, beef price.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Average lactation length in France is 2.4. lactations...

Could that be lengthened to advantage? How does it compare to here?

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

you mean farmer apathy and more farmer apathy.....wake up and smell the coffee Ed, Blaming someone else is just a cop out, get your toes down from the chimney

Rangler in fairness you have over 3400 posts on here if we are to criticise people on the basis of how much they express their opinions on boards? Then it would appear you may have spent more time with your toes up the chimney than most.
So any news on IFAs reaction to the Ornua salaries? Or have the ifa pr people spoken to their pr people yet?
Honestly we're being taken for mugs whatever way you look at it.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Could that be lengthened to advantage? How does it compare to here?

Genetics.
Stanflt could/may/might be able to assist.

Don't know what the average is in Éire.

Markcheese

Water John wrote:

Heard from a good source that one CEO said he would drop the price to 17 cent if he would get away with it. You can see how some of the these boys and girls, think.

Water John wrote:

Farmers will have to shout stop.

That CEO was probably right, if thats the return his strategy was delivering, but by the same token, his job prospects (and renumeration) should rely on his performance ,and ability to control costs across the company...
Plus to be fair, if the milk was 17 cents for long the co-op wouldnt have much milk to process in the near future..

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Rangler in fairness you have over 3400 posts on here if we are to criticise people on the basis of how much they express their opinions on boards? Then it would appear you may have spent more time with your toes up the chimney than most.
So any news on IFAs reaction to the Ornua salaries? Or have the ifa pr people spoken to their pr people yet?
Honestly we're being taken for mugs whatever way you look at it.

Agreed on your last line, I resigned from IFA because farmers had no appetite to do anything about being taken for mugs.
i've definitely no time for anyone that tries to blame someone else when they have no interest in doing anything for themselves.
Never had any problem with people getting high salries, they usually have to earn it, a neighbour used to claim if you meet an ass it;s a pity but to give him a bit of a ride at least..... Smith obviously met a few asses on the IFA finance commitee/exec board, more power to him.
I use the term toes up the chimney and in relation to poeple who complain and yet would rather have their toes up the chimney at night than go to a meeting to help like minded people put forward their views....

C0N0R

Base price for March 24.25

Fat 3.96
Protein 3.18
Scc 48,000

Price received 28.229

Slightly under half was liquid milk. Manufacturing worked out at 25.119 and liquid 31.693

Water John

Mark, his strategy is delivering a fine salary, in the league of the Ornua honchos, and he has a lovely pension awaiting him.

The Board were warned, by some of their own colleagues, not to appoint him as he simply did not have the skillset required. Did they listen?

In this case, 'fool me once etc,,, fool me twice etc.'

Keep Going, I believe you are with one of the West Cork 4. Different attitude there and indeed Kerry. At least a respect for farmers. I know that doesn't put food on the table but its a very different place than the farmers of Glanbia or DG.
Don't worry, I have done my soldering too, we all have different contributions to make. Social media is just another new tool.
Processors have a structure and the paid staff to ensure how it runs for their benefit. Farmers are isolated and picked off individually. They in effect have no structure, As for farming orgs????
Healy has a final shot at proving they have a role or any significance. The wind is at his back and people willing to be led.

kevthegaff

Dawggone wrote: »

Average lactation length in France is 2.4. lactations...

My cost for producing replacements (walk into parlor for first milking) is just over €1500/hd. If you include wastage for sprinters that walk into parlor for 2nd lactation, first milking, then cost goes to €1720/hd.
I can buy fresh calved springers for €700...


Beef bulls here, resting atm. Real work later...just keeping it simple.

The hassle of breeding. Tail painting. Recording heats. Etc etc etc.
keeping it simple.



Breeding stock are directly related to milk price and to a certain extent, beef price.

We think alike! If milk price rises so do replacements. How bad?

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

We think alike! If milk price rises so do replacements. How bad?

Exactly.
Be ahead of the curve...

stretch film

Dawggone wrote: »

Exactly.
Be ahead of the curve...

Does that strategy includes buying maidens in a weak market in anticipation of rising prices by time of calving down. ?

Dawggone

stretch film wrote: »

Does that strategy includes buying maidens in a weak market in anticipation of rising prices by time of calving down. ?

Definite Yes.

The trick is knowing when...


Maybe we could pool our dairy replacement money together and get Kowtow to manage the fund, for a small fee of course...1/2 mill..:)

stretch film

Dawggone wrote: »

Definite Yes.

The trick is knowing when...


Maybe we could pool our dairy replacement money together and get Kowtow to manage the fund, for a small fee of course...1/2 mill..:)

Not sure if that's what kev wants to streamline his system .
What amount would he have purchased calves/maids contract reared for?
Ped. Calves for 150 and maid's for 500 at a local sale recently

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Maybe we could pool our dairy replacement money together and get Kowtow to manage the fund, for a small fee of course...1/2 mill..

... you know what they say. A fair days pay for a fair days work..

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Maybe we could pool our dairy replacement money together and get Kowtow to manage the fund, for a small fee of course...1/2 mill..

... you know what they say. A fair days pay for a fair days work..

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

... you know what they say. A fair days pay for a fair days work..

Lol.
You hum it and I'll sing it!

atlantic mist

Out on Brussels for a few days, Ifa out here too joe is getting straight into it in fairness to him, looks like mercurous trade deal will sail through Spain n Portugal pushing for it as they have strong ties to South America, worry for us if Germany n France backing it and will look for them to return the favour of milk markets don't correct themselves on next 12months thank fully they are slow to implement change due to structure, if Britain exit were on our own against the big players on eu and sfp will be cut across the board so interesting year ahead, countries we are targeting for export are mainly developing countries with big populations but low disposable incomes hard to see great returns for suppliers in medium out look unless our processors change focus, our processors are well positioned due to investment from us, pity we ploughed our money into stainless steel for processors instead of letting the management teams raise the finance and making them work instead of giving them the soft option of using coop money, what is the return on capital employed in each of our processors on latest investments??? we don't want to flood eu markets due to bloody politics even thou they provide us wit better returns, Irish beef commanding top price in any Restraunt I've been in so far no sign of our dairy just this tasteless French butter and Uth milk(no offence dwag), think if we're looking at the possibility of quotas we need to start targeting the eu market place not Africa n Asia we were best boys in class in banking crisis we don't need to be that during dairy crisis its survival of the fittest and we need ever cent we can get from where ever we can, China playing a good game in both dairy n steel, stock piled both and pulled the plug n just sit back and watch how the eu politicians run around in circles capitalism has now replaced communism there. As I said here before we over supplied for past 10 years so we are used to current milk price, no flying herd here 60maidens and 60calves on the ground, we were going ahead wit capital program later this year we postponed last year, happy to keep in herd if market is down, will not give them away, but my visit out here has me questioning the investment Dnt realise the lobbying and political intervention and the power of the bigger nations have on our industry Im a bit confused wit Glanbia model how is CEO of Plc also ceo of coop when did this happen and how and why, can power be abused in this position, she is hardly ceo of any of the investment funds that hav come on board as well???nobody I asked could explain finding our coop structure frustrating

Dawggone

atlantic mist wrote: »

Out on Brussels for a few days, Ifa out here too joe is getting straight into it in fairness to him, looks like mercurous trade deal will sail through Spain n Portugal pushing for it as they have strong ties to South America, worry for us if Germany n France backing it and will look for them to return the favour of milk markets don't correct themselves on next 12months thank fully they are slow to implement change due to structure, if Britain exit were on our own against the big players on eu and sfp will be cut across the board so interesting year ahead, countries we are targeting for export are mainly developing countries with big populations but low disposable incomes hard to see great returns for suppliers in medium out look unless our processors change focus, our processors are well positioned due to investment from us, pity we ploughed our money into stainless steel for processors instead of letting the management teams raise the finance and making them work instead of giving them the soft option of using coop money, what is the return on capital employed in each of our processors on latest investments??? we don't want to flood eu markets due to bloody politics even thou they provide us wit better returns, Irish beef commanding top price in any Restraunt I've been in so far no sign of our dairy just this tasteless French butter and Uth milk(no offence dwag), think if we're looking at the possibility of quotas we need to start targeting the eu market place not Africa n Asia we were best boys in class in banking crisis we don't need to be that during dairy crisis its survival of the fittest and we need ever cent we can get from where ever we can, China playing a good game in both dairy n steel, stock piled both and pulled the plug n just sit back and watch how the eu politicians run around in circles capitalism has now replaced communism there. As I said here before we over supplied for past 10 years so we are used to current milk price, no flying herd here 60maidens and 60calves on the ground, we were going ahead wit capital program later this year we postponed last year, happy to keep in herd if market is down, will not give them away, but my visit out here has me questioning the investment Dnt realise the lobbying and political intervention and the power of the bigger nations have on our industry Im a bit confused wit Glanbia model how is CEO of Plc also ceo of coop when did this happen and how and why, can power be abused in this position, she is hardly ceo of any of the investment funds that hav come on board as well???nobody I asked could explain finding our coop structure frustrating

. No offense taken Mist.

I agree that the big players have a lot of clout.
Exciting times ahead...

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

. No offense taken Mist.

I agree that the big players have a lot of clout.
Exciting times ahead...

Never waste a crisis.

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

Never waste a crisis.

True. But the feckin politicians always stick their noses in.

Ag has never, and will never be, a level playing pitch.

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

True. But the feckin politicians always stick their noses in.

Ag has never, and will never be, a level playing pitch.

Ah but you know better than most, its when the status quo is being changed by the politicians, its the easiest time to make money - if you know which side the coin will drop.
In the 80's paid to get out of dairying one year and paid to get back into it a few years after. Quota - a free asset. SFP, etc.... everytime the politicians stirred the barrel of ****.

keep going

Water John wrote: »

Mark, his strategy is delivering a fine salary, in the league of the Ornua honchos, and he has a lovely pension awaiting him.

The Board were warned, by some of their own colleagues, not to appoint him as he simply did not have the skillset required. Did they listen?

In this case, 'fool me once etc,,, fool me twice etc.'

Keep Going, I believe you are with one of the West Cork 4. Different attitude there and indeed Kerry. At least a respect for farmers. I know that doesn't put food on the table but its a very different place than the farmers of Glanbia or DG.
Don't worry, I have done my soldering too, we all have different contributions to make. Social media is just another new tool.
Processors have a structure and the paid staff to ensure how it runs for their benefit. Farmers are isolated and picked off individually. They in effect have no structure, As for farming orgs????
Healy has a final shot at proving they have a role or any significance. The wind is at his back and people willing to be led.

nothing stopping anyone organising them selves.for example if i wanted to raise an issue at the agm,id form a little backroom team with a geographical spread over the area who feel the same about the issue.next roughly 10 days before agm we d start putting the story out in our respective areas about the issue lacing it with something a little controversal,using mainly the milk or ration lorry drivers or contractors but the real jewell-ai men always active in yards at agm time.hopefully it would get into a few marts to get the story moving but not enough time for management to prepare.next up on the night pick one man to raise the issue and throw alot of facts and figures into the early part of the question but draw out the end of the question.the next speaker listens to the management reply for any figures not mentioned and throws that back in the next question-gives the impression he s hiding something.after that let a few others speak but then get someone to do a final big question to drive it home .important to pick smaller to medium sized farmers(nobody trusts big farmers)to do the talking and not people how spout at every agm.the whole point of putting the story out
early is farmers are hearing it first from lads they know and may trust and if you can get it through a mart there will be a good few legs add to it.lads will have their back up a little and will make a point of going to the agm wanting to find out more.next they hear a guy who seems to know what hes talking about and the management appearing coy with the facts.should set up a nice tense atmosphere for the management to wade through.if fellas only hear about it on the night they are unsure whether to support or not but by now they are well cross about it .all meetings get a little stage managing so you might as well do some of your own

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

nothing stopping anyone organising the selves.for example if i wanted to raise an issue at the agm,id form a little backroom team with a geographical spread over the area who feel the same about the issue.next roughly 10 days before agm we d start putting the story out in our respective areas about the issue lacing it with something a little controversal,using mainly the milk or ration lorry drivers or contractors but the real jewell-ai men always active in yards at agm time.hopefully it would get into a few marts to get the story moving but not enough time for management to prepare.next up on the night pick one man to raise the issue and throw alot of facts and figures into the early part of the question but draw out the end of the question.the next speaker listens to the management reply for any figures not mentioned and throws that back in the next question-gives the impression he s hiding something.after that let a few others speak but then get someone to do a final big question to drive it home .important to pick smaller to medium sized farmers(nobody trusts big farmers)to do the talking and not people how spout at every agm.the whole point of putting the story out
early is farmers are hearing it first from lads they know and may trust and if you can get it through a mart there will be a good few legs add to it.lads will have their back up a little and will make a point of going to the agm wanting to find out more.next they hear a guy who seems to know what hes talking about and the management appearing coy with the facts.should set up a nice tense atmosphere for the management to wade through.if fellas only hear about it on the night they are unsure whether to support or not but by now they are well cross about it .all meetings get a little stage managing so you might as well do some of your own

Have you been reading the report from the pr awards people how they won the award for getting people to vote for reox? It would share a lot of the ideas in your post

Atlantic mist great post. Forget the farming. There's a farm organisation here that is looking for a Ceo. I recon your ability to grasp what is going on in Brussels should qualify you for the job

rangler1

atlantic mist wrote: »

Out on Brussels for a few days, Ifa out here too joe is getting straight into it in fairness to him, looks like mercurous trade deal will sail through Spain n Portugal pushing for it as they have strong ties to South America, worry for us if Germany n France backing it and will look for them to return the favour of milk markets don't correct themselves on next 12months thank fully they are slow to implement change due to structure, if Britain exit were on our own against the big players on eu and sfp will be cut across the board so interesting year ahead, countries we are targeting for export are mainly developing countries with big populations but low disposable incomes hard to see great returns for suppliers in medium out look unless our processors change focus, our processors are well positioned due to investment from us, pity we ploughed our money into stainless steel for processors instead of letting the management teams raise the finance and making them work instead of giving them the soft option of using coop money, what is the return on capital employed in each of our processors on latest investments??? we don't want to flood eu markets due to bloody politics even thou they provide us wit better returns, Irish beef commanding top price in any Restraunt I've been in so far no sign of our dairy just this tasteless French butter and Uth milk(no offence dwag), think if we're looking at the possibility of quotas we need to start targeting the eu market place not Africa n Asia we were best boys in class in banking crisis we don't need to be that during dairy crisis its survival of the fittest and we need ever cent we can get from where ever we can, China playing a good game in both dairy n steel, stock piled both and pulled the plug n just sit back and watch how the eu politicians run around in circles capitalism has now replaced communism there. As I said here before we over supplied for past 10 years so we are used to current milk price, no flying herd here 60maidens and 60calves on the ground, we were going ahead wit capital program later this year we postponed last year, happy to keep in herd if market is down, will not give them away, but my visit out here has me questioning the investment Dnt realise the lobbying and political intervention and the power of the bigger nations have on our industry Im a bit confused wit Glanbia model how is CEO of Plc also ceo of coop when did this happen and how and why, can power be abused in this position, she is hardly ceo of any of the investment funds that hav come on board as well???nobody I asked could explain finding our coop structure frustrating

Brian barry would've had last weeks timetable laid out, no matter who was president, bit early yet to be patting his back.

milkprofit

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Have you been reading the report from the pr awards people how they won the award for getting people to vote for reox? It would share a lot of the ideas in your post

Atlantic mist great post. Forget the farming. There's a farm organisation here that is looking for a Ceo. I recon your ability to grasp what is going on in Brussels should qualify you for the job

Glanbia shareholders not allowed to meet without management staff there to mind them