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Limerick improvement projects

12357157

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Noonan was pushing the overall €250m 2030 plan, not the individual projects other than the Opera Center.
    Surely if they were suddenly fast tracking everything they'd have done it before the election, rather than after it. Especially seeing as the polls for the last 2 years made it obvious that the last government wouldn't be returned.

    The other question is does a caretaker minister have the power to sign anything off? Because remember we currently have no government, just a caretaker cabinet.

    I think they were fully sure that FG would be returned. All the polls suggested that right up to the final weeks. I think the caretaker cabinet does have the power to sign stuff off, yes. Anyway, this is just idle speculation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    A sign if investment in Limerick

    "THE Crescent Shopping Centre has lodged an application to deliver a major makeover, which — if given the green light — will include a significant expansion in retail, café and restaurant space.

    The proposals, lodged by CSC Property Investments, include the raising of ceiling space in some malls; the reconfiguration of seven internal units and one external unit to provide six internal units; creation of five new external units, and three of which will accommodate restaurant, café and deli-bar uses.

    Plans also include the installation of a new landscaped events public plaza at the north of the complex, accompanied by stronger pedestrian links between St Nessan’s Road and the shopping centre.

    According to the proposed development, there will be an overall increase of 1,743 square metres in retail floorspace, and an overall gross increase of 3,384 square metres on the site."

    Which of course is met with opposition.

    "Limerick City Business Association chairperson, Helen O’Donnell said that while it is “important that it [the Crescent] survives and that it operates its full capacity”, they would not like the shopping complex to be competing with the city centre for tenants.

    She added that they would not be opposed to this development, as they are “not increasing the space by a significant size.

    “We don’t want any more shopping centres to compound the donut effect in Limerick.

    “So it’s important that it stays as a good shopping centre because it is highly regarded within the region. But we would hope that people will look at units in the city centre.”

    Ms O’Donnell said that the LCBA do not want more shopping complexes “until the city centre is sorted out”.

    She added that development needs to take place on current derelict sites to attract more businesses in the city centre.

    Opinions ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Bored_lad


    It doesn't sound like Helen O'Donnell and the city business are opposed to it. I think they realise the Crescent is a huge attraction that gets people into the area from the greater Munster area and this development should be supported. They just don't want more ship centres to be built until the city is thriving fully again and isn't full of derelict sites.

    I don't really want to see more development in the Crescent myself purely because I never go out there and it will probably pull some big international brands that I'd prefer to see in the city as they'd be more accessible to me. However the expanding of the crescent is preferable to me than the building of new shopping centres such as the parkway valley.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Some thoughts ..

    The Crescent is so successful because the population of the Midwest is so spread out and the Crescent provides easy access to this population for its retail needs.

    Try as it might the city centre retailers can't really expect to access very much of that market, given the disadvantages it has in the area of access, traffic, parking, etc. So, basically, unless the city centre becomes a very populous place again, then retail here is going to be limited by comparison to the likes of the Crescent.

    That's Limerick challenge, in my opinion. It must go from a place where very few people live in or near the centre to a place where lots of people live in or near the centre. That can happen but we have a hell of a long way to go. Something like only 3% of the metropolitan population live in the original core. That's a startling indictment of Limerick's current state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Townie_P


    zulutango wrote: »
    Some thoughts ..

    The Crescent is so successful because the population of the Midwest is so spread out and the Crescent provides easy access to this population for its retail needs.

    Try as it might the city centre retailers can't really expect to access very much of that market, given the disadvantages it has in the area of access, traffic, parking, etc. So, basically, unless the city centre becomes a very populous place again, then retail here is going to be limited by comparison to the likes of the Crescent.

    That's Limerick challenge, in my opinion. It must go from a place where very few people live in or near the centre to a place where lots of people live in or near the centre. That can happen but we have a hell of a long way to go. Something like only 3% of the metropolitan population live in the original core. That's a startling indictment of Limerick's current state.

    There is plenty of opportunity for the City Centre. One thing you have to remember about the Crescent is the huge rents, service charges and rates. It is not every business or business model that can afford this. For an average unit in the older part that they are now looking to renovate and expand, you are currently talking €120k to €150k per year all in. Make no mistake that once the renovation is complete, these rents are only going one way - up. This announcement makes perfect sense of all the recent closures (and more potential closures) of independents in the older part of the Crescent. They are now looking for big rents again, but it looks like there has been another agenda too.

    The point is though, it's not every business that can afford the Crescent and indeed, some fairly big hitters in retail have opened and closed in the Crescent over the years. The Crescent is not the be all and end all, it works for some, it doesn't for others. For example New Look were looking at the Crescent for a long time, including the current Mothercare unit. But they decided against it. They're doing fine in the City Centre. As I have said before, in 5 years (possibly a lot sooner) there will be no independent retailers left there and like every other major centre, it will only be affordable to the biggest retailers who sell the most volume. And as a result it's just going to be populated with the same stores as every soulless shopping centre in Ireland and the UK.

    The opportunity for the city centre lies in attracting the companies that can't afford the Crescent and also in offering the diversity that independent retailers bring to the table. For example, how many Women's boutiques are in the Crescent? None. They're all in the city centre. So that woman who isn't a skinny size 10 or who wants better quality than Next or Zara, she's already shopping in the city centre. Quality men's clothing in the Crescent? Hardly any, apart from the few brands Tony Connolly carries or the small bits in Tommy. If you want Hugo Boss, Ralph Polo etc you have to go to town.

    Further to that, there's a train of thought that the owners of the Crescent are priming it for a sale once the wider economy recovers. Their main business now is office developments in Dublin, and they have a number of them coming on stream between now and 2020. Refurbish the old part of the Crescent, expand it as much as they would be allowed, fill it with big name A rated tenants, put it on the market....


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The council are looking for public submissions on the hanging gardens project.
    http://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/notice_of_proposed_development_at_the_former_gpo_a_protected_structure_rps275.pdf
    This is the plan is
    i.The completion of the existing partially completed office building.
    ii.The construction of a new 5 storey office building on the site of no.19 Henry Street.
    iii.The refurbishment / repair of the former GPO, mercantile building and hanging gardens.
    iv.Completion of the basement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Thanks for sharing,
    I suppose some progress is better than no progress, tbh i wont believe it until i see builders on site.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Red King


    Townie_P wrote: »

    Quality men's clothing in the Crescent? Hardly any, apart from the few brands Tony Connolly carries or the small bits in Tommy. If you want Hugo Boss, Ralph Polo etc you have to go to town.

    Think the only advantage town has over the Crescent is Brown Thomas.

    Other than that the Crescent has pretty much everything town has, if not more.

    Town recently lost Ted Baker and Camicie too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Bored_lad


    Red King wrote: »
    Town recently lost Ted Baker and Camicie too.

    The Ted Baker from Brown Thomas is hardly gone already is it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Bored_lad wrote: »
    The Ted Baker from Brown Thomas is hardly gone already is it?

    bought a nice ted baker blazer in BT on the weekend , unless it was on clearance ted baker is still there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    Maybe Red King means Tom Tailor which was next to Schuh?

    I love Ted Baker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭vkid


    Not surprised camicie or tom tailor are gone. Camicie only sold shirts, very similar shirts in about 40 million different colors. And Tom tailor was poor enough IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    vkid wrote: »
    Not surprised camicie or tom tailor are gone. Camicie only sold shirts, very similar shirts in about 40 million different colors. And Tom tailor was poor enough IMO.

    Not the nicest of shirts either, imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭johnnyryan89


    Have Camicie closed down? Thought I heard someone saying they were just moving.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Red King


    Bored_lad wrote: »
    The Ted Baker from Brown Thomas is hardly gone already is it?
    Maybe Red King means Tom Tailor which was next to Schuh?

    I love Ted Baker.

    Sorry yes Tom Tailor, not Ted Baker.
    Have Camicie closed down? Thought I heard someone saying they were just moving.

    Well if they are moving they sure as hell are taking their time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 321 ✭✭DeWinterZero


    I miss Tom Tailor. It being a german company their XXL clothes were for tall people rather than short fat people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Red King


    Lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭wigsa100


    Not sure if it's been said already but is Toys R Us seriously gone? After what, two months? Three?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    It closed in February after 4 months. See Limerock Businesses Closed thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭wigsa100


    What a disaster. Jesus.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭goochy


    There store in dublin closed too so nothing to do with lk!


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭wigsa100


    Oh good. That's something at least. Still though very disappointing that it would choose to open in Limerick and close within months.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,348 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Toys R Us were a franchise here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Any one know what they are doing in the docks ? , saw some movement and minor works taking place at the entrance opposites dolans, Place needs a face lift big time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    Seem to be modernising the Entrance Gates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    I know this will probably never materialize and im sure this has been discussed already but what do ye think of a simple luas line running from ul to town then to the crescent and back ? i think it would completely change the dynamic of the city.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    crusha101 wrote: »
    I know this will probably never materialize and im sure this has been discussed already but what do ye think of a simple luas line running from ul to town then to the crescent and back ? i think it would completely change the dynamic of the city.

    It could work if we had the population to support that kind of infrastructural project, but right now it's not feasible.

    There's talk lately from a few fairly eminent people that Limerick can and should be developed as Ireland's second city. In this context a light rail is obviously realistic.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/limerick-city-dublin-2-2723719-Apr2016/


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    Ya I was trying to post an article yesterday published by yahoo outlining why limerick should be Ireland's second city but was unable to as I am a new user and don't have permission to post links,

    I think within a few years we will definitely have the student population to support a basic luas like operation once there is something in the city which will encourage students in to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrJones2013


    crusha101 wrote: »
    I know this will probably never materialize and im sure this has been discussed already but what do ye think of a simple luas line running from ul to town then to the crescent and back ? i think it would completely change the dynamic of the city.

    With the way things are progressing it might be something that is eventually looked at but I don't think it will materialize any time in my generation! Hopefully I am wrong as I am a big believer that a decent public transport system would have an extremely positive effect on reducing the number of cars in the city.

    The thing that really frustrates me regarding the 'Smarter Travel' city is that most of the focus seems to be on getting people on bikes and not on to buses. Bikes are ideal but we don't exactly have the weather to be concentrating on getting people to cycle when they will go back to their cars once the weather deteriorates.
    zulutango wrote: »
    It could work if we had the population to support that kind of infrastructural project, but right now it's not feasible.

    There's talk lately from a few fairly eminent people that Limerick can and should be developed as Ireland's second city. In this context a light rail is obviously realistic.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/limerick-city-dublin-2-2723719-Apr2016/

    Limericks population is too small for such a project in an Irish city due to the cost but similar tram systems do operate in similar and smaller sized European cities. This frustrates me as during the 'boom' so much money was spent on improving the road network (Which needed to be done, don't get me wrong) but now they are trying to reduce the number of cars on the road and increase the volume of people using public transport. If they had concentrated on the latter a bit more in the 'boom' years it would be an easier transition for people now IMO.
    crusha101 wrote: »
    Ya I was trying to post an article yesterday published by yahoo outlining why limerick should be Ireland's second city but was unable to as I am a new user and don't have permission to post links,

    I think within a few years we will definitely have the student population to support a basic luas like operation once there is something in the city which will encourage students in to it.

    I read that article myself, it makes sense to have Limerick as the second city due to its location between Cork and Galway but I'd imagine the Cork population and politicians would do their utmost to stop this. Dublin is manic at the moment and some long term thinking needs to be done to help relieve the overcrowding up there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Red King


    Public transport? Light rail? Away with you! The council have more important things to focus on like building bridges that nobody wants.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭johnnyryan89


    Would a light rail even fit in limerick, I've never used the luas or being in Dublin City centre long enough to notice the luas but the streets of limerick seem to be a lot smaller then Dublin to squeeze a light rail on to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrJones2013


    Would a light rail even fit in limerick, I've never used the luas or being in Dublin City centre long enough to notice the luas but the streets of limerick seem to be a lot smaller then Dublin to squeeze a light rail on to.

    I'd imagine it would but if it was going on the existing roads some would need to be car free and others possibly widened or reduced to one ways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭timesnewroman


    Sur there is already a rail line that dissects the city (Mungret - Crescent SC - Parkway SC - Rhebogue - Corbally - Moyross) that isn't being used. There's another line running to Foynes from Colbert Station that runs parallel to the M20 (towards the back of the industrial estate in Raheen).

    I've no idea what state of (dis)repair those lines are in, but would surely cost less to get them operational than create a new Luas style network.

    The revival of these lines has been spoken about plenty of times before, but this being Limerick, sod all has happened.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,871 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    A decent bus service would eliminate the need for a light rail system. Tbh, the 304 is (slowly) getting better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    A decent bus service would eliminate the need for a light rail system. Tbh, the 304 is (slowly) getting better.

    Ya it's been improving with the introduction of the double decker bus aswell but its a 30-40 minute commute to get into town from UL from the hours of 2-6 , it's the speed aspect of a luas like system which appeals to me, the 304 is slowly getting more and more expensive too


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrJones2013


    A decent bus service would eliminate the need for a light rail system. Tbh, the 304 is (slowly) getting better.

    I passed the same bus around 4 times one evening a couple of weeks ago, I was driving in from the South Court towards town at around 6pm.

    The bus was in the bus lane which you'd imagine would speed up the service with the lack of traffic but between the South Court and the Crescent I had passed the bus around 4 times and traffic was pretty heavy in the regular lane. It was the number of stops in a relatively short stretch that had the bus stopping so much. If their was an express bus stopping at main stops on the busy routes at peak times it would speed up the service. From the South Court and the hospital there are 4 stops in 1km!


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Big_Evil


    Sur there is already a rail line that dissects the city (Mungret - Crescent SC - Parkway SC - Rhebogue - Corbally - Moyross) that isn't being used. There's another line running to Foynes from Colbert Station that runs parallel to the M20 (towards the back of the industrial estate in Raheen).

    I've no idea what state of (dis)repair those lines are in, but would surely cost less to get them operational than create a new Luas style network.

    The revival of these lines has been spoken about plenty of times before, but this being Limerick, sod all has happened.

    Snap! The condition of the line isnt too bad, but would require rebedding. Also, its only a single line so no two-way train traffic. However, the locations these lines pass makes it ideal for a light rail system. For example, it could conceivably serve from Patrickswell all the way to town, with a stop in Raheen and Dooradoyle along the way.

    While there is not really a dire need for it at present, a bit of future proofing is required, i.e. keeping the current infrastructure in reasonable nick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    zulutango wrote: »
    It could work if we had the population to support that kind of infrastructural project, but right now it's not feasible.

    There's talk lately from a few fairly eminent people that Limerick can and should be developed as Ireland's second city. In this context a light rail is obviously realistic.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/limerick-city-dublin-2-2723719-Apr2016/

    Innsbruck, Tyrol, Austria population 120,000, 4 electrified suburban rail routes(in a similar layout to Limericks existing surrounding railways), 3 tram routes and BRT is the standard form of bus transport.

    And Innsbruck is not at all densely settled, the suburbs are almost entirely detatched alpine style houses.

    Innsbruck is also not exceptional, this is an average Limerick sized City in Western Europe, you'll find similar in Spain or Denmark for example.

    The reason Ireland does not have nice things is not because we are small, rather because we are small minded and elect same.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Innsbruck, Tyrol, Austria population 120,000, 4 electrified suburban rail routes(in a similar layout to Limericks existing surrounding railways), 3 tram routes and BRT is the standard form of bus transport.

    And Innsbruck is not at all densely settled, the suburbs are almost entirely detatched alpine style houses.

    Innsbruck is also not exceptional, this is an average Limerick sized City in Western Europe, you'll find similar in Spain or Denmark for example.

    The reason Ireland does not have nice things is not because we are small, rather because we are small minded and elect same.

    Innsbruck is a major tourist destination, Limerick isn't. It has a 25K larger population and over a million tourists a year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭OfTheMarsWongs


    Big_Evil wrote: »
    Snap! The condition of the line isnt too bad, but would require rebedding. Also, its only a single line so no two-way train traffic. However, the locations these lines pass makes it ideal for a light rail system. For example, it could conceivably serve from Patrickswell all the way to town, with a stop in Raheen and Dooradoyle along the way.

    While there is not really a dire need for it at present, a bit of future proofing is required, i.e. keeping the current infrastructure in reasonable nick.

    The line is two way from the station out past the Rosbrien Level crossing. It splits just after, one line goes to the cement factory (goes past Kilteragh and the shopping centre) and one to Foynes. The Foynes line would be the one that goes past the back of Raheen Industrial Estate.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The line is two way from the station out past the Rosbrien Level crossing. It splits just after, one line goes to the cement factory (goes past Kilteragh and the shopping centre) and one to Foynes. The Foynes line would be the one that goes past the back of Raheen Industrial Estate.

    The line doesn't go to the station. It stops at the old Guinness depot on Careys Road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭OfTheMarsWongs


    The line doesn't go to the station. It stops at the old Guinness depot on Careys Road.

    Apologies, just doubled checked the lines go from the station but any trains going to Foynes or Cement Factory from the station would have to go past the junction at the back of the wagon works and then go backwards/forwards down the line towards Rosbrien.

    I had assumed since the cement trains were often at the back of the graveyard that it was a direct line. Looks like a bit of reversing was involved to get from there to the Mungret.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Would it not be more realistic to develop these lines as cycle ways?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,812 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Innsbruck is a major tourist destination, Limerick isn't. It has a 25K larger population and over a million tourists a year.

    There aren't many tourists in summer time, and even in the winter you don't see many commuting on the s bahn at rush hour.

    Innsbruck is just an example, there are a plethora of Limerick sized cities across Europe with modern infrastructure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭jmch81


    Apologies, just doubled checked the lines go from the station but any trains going to Foynes or Cement Factory from the station would have to go past the junction at the back of the wagon works and then go backwards/forwards down the line towards Rosbrien.

    I had assumed since the cement trains were often at the back of the graveyard that it was a direct line. Looks like a bit of reversing was involved to get from there to the Mungret.

    There used to be a rail line which crossed Carey's Road on a bridge. I checked the OSI for historic map and one shows up. It used run where the CIE club building is beside the Guinness depot site. Which would resolve the reversing issue.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    Yeah that used to carry the former Limerick to Charleville line in to the station.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,771 ✭✭✭flyingsnail


    zulutango wrote: »
    Would it not be more realistic to develop these lines as cycle ways?

    Given that there is a realistic chance that these line would be reopened for freight usage in the future I would be very slow to give the alignments to something else. The Foynes line has already been highlighted as important infrastructure under the Europe Ten-T plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭crusha101


    There is an artists impression of the hanging gardens available on the limerick leader. Unfortunately I cannot provide a link as new members do not have permission. Would be great id someone could post it , although we only get a limited view it is still quite impressive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrJones2013


    crusha101 wrote: »
    There is an artists impression of the hanging gardens available on the limerick leader. Unfortunately I cannot provide a link as new members do not have permission. Would be great id someone could post it , although we only get a limited view it is still quite impressive.

    http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/206479/First-look-at-plans-for-Limerick.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭MrJones2013


    The article says 'the site could provide the city centre with much needed clean office space'. The riverpoint building is pretty new and modern, is this fully occupied does anyone know?


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